I started building this deck about a month ago. I've played it a handful of times and refined the list a bit from where I started. I like the deck but feel like it still needs something (probably just more testing than anything). It's fun though and I enjoyed developing it so far. Looking to improve upon my current build:
The strategy is simple. Play mana dorks and use counter magic to control the early game. Move towards a tempo strategy midgame with the creature suite, advancing our board state while disrupting our opponent. Finally we want to close out the game before our opponents have a chance to overcome our tempo advantage. That's the idea in a nutshell.
The idea with this deck is that you don't want to be casting anything during your turn. While those cards you mentioned are good, tapping out to drop KotR, Thrun, or even Smiter (something that I should take out of my board) can give your opponent an opportunity make a move.
I'm thinking maybe -1 Bird, +1 Cryptic for my build. I just don't know if I have enough blue mana sources to be able to consistently cast it on turn 4.
kiora might be worth a try, i know she seems fragile but she fits your game plan perfectly. you can explore her to death if you want some more ramp or pump out her ultimate ftw.... i dunno might be cute but definitely fun
I dont think you're thinking about Thrun in the right way. He's uncounterable, so you dont need to worry about tapping out and getting blown out. He's also a board card, so when you want him, he's freakin awesome. The fact that you go shields down for a turn isn't going to matter if the card you just cast (thrun) is virtually unbeatable. Also if you cast him while having extra mana up it leaves you the option to counter something potentially or regen.
Alright. I foresee this deck having problems with early aggression, in particular red based aggro. you gain no life except for sphinx's revelation, and that comes online much later than something like zoo or affinity would do. How has your matchup with those decks been ? It's not a flash answer, but possibly the card you would want is kitchen finks. Most of your answers cost quite more than their beaters and reach. If you're looking to counter earlier spells, has any thought been given to spellstutter sprite? It would be good at countering earlier spells and works with your tempo plan. I admit that it probably conflicts with cards like mana leak or remand for slots, however.
Alright. I foresee this deck having problems with early aggression, in particular red based aggro. you gain no life except for sphinx's revelation, and that comes online much later than something like zoo or affinity would do. How has your matchup with those decks been ? It's not a flash answer, but possibly the card you would want is kitchen finks. Most of your answers cost quite more than their beaters and reach. If you're looking to counter earlier spells, has any thought been given to spellstutter sprite? It would be good at countering earlier spells and works with your tempo plan. I admit that it probably conflicts with cards like mana leak or remand for slots, however.
You bring up some good points. So far I have not played against Affinity or Zoo types of decks, and it's true that I don't really have a lot of ways to effectively answer them. I could find room for Hurkyl's Recall in the board, and maybe Engineered Explosives can find a spot for the small Zoo lists (also not bad vs Affinity). I think the Big Zoo builds are slow enough that I shouldn't have too many issues disrupting them.
I am hoping that I can counter enough burn spells so they run out of gas. Probably should play that a bit too and see if I need something else. Kitchen Finks isn't a bad idea. I probably won't run Spellstutter Sprite. I've played it in the past and it's really not very good without Bitterblossom.
Yes, but a smart reach player is going to hit you as hard as they can early on and then stock up on burn spells while still possibly doing you damage in the later turns. Unfortunately, the old adage about burn spells costing less than counters is still true here. Other than that, it looks like you'd have a positive match up vs. combo and control decks, which is what tempo is generally designed to beat.
The overall shell of your decks seems interesting. I would cut the Sphinx's Rev all together for two more Cryptic Commands. This will create two open slots in the sideboard if you drop the cryptic and remand in favor for more answers to affinity and other aggro strategies which exist all around.Doing this would probably require adding another basic Island. No joke here but a Bant Charm may seriously be worth play testing. Charm answers many things out of the board and even a one of in the main is a great draw off the top mid to late game.
Revelation is there more for draw than anything else. Maybe that slot would be better filled with Think Twice. I'll probably cut a Bird for a 3rd Cryptic, but I don't like the idea of putting 4 1UUU spells in a 3 color deck.
I do like Bant Charm.
I'm thinking this is what I will play with for now:
I was actually try to build something very simaliar to this with Momentary blink, and a couple more comes into play effects. If you can stall until latter in the game it oozes card advantage. (I'm really trying to make mulldrifter work but it is pretty slow.)
It seems to me that most decks in this format just lose to hard counters, and targeted timely removal. That being said you do see most decks just beating down with exarchs of finks for the win, so blink turns into value fog.
So counter anything they play, and eventually value the out, or sit on you hands long enough to play out value creatures, and suede-counter they're removal with blinks for extra value. Seems good against everything in the format, but robots, and scapeshift?
JPo, it is difficult to argue with that statement because playing catch-up in any magic game can be difficult but Cryptic Command does a great impression of catch-up. Even path to exile and advent can do some heavy defense at instant speed. I like where this deck is headed, I'm not sure if it's there yet but I like where it's headed for sure.
Question, can you control the game enough that 1/1 flying spirits get there? Moorland Haunt looks really out of place, to me. Personally I would cut it and add one of the other man lands available, leaning toward colonnade or Faerie Conclave.
I think 3 Mystic Snakes is a bit much, probably cut them by 1. Add another advent.
Reasoning: All those sets of shock lands can add up negatively over the course of the game. This opens up for the fourth Cryptic. A resolved Blood Moon would be devastating and this helps a bit but a dedicated sideboard would be needed if your counter magic fails early from disrupting it. An option may be running Natutalize instead of Hurkyl's Recall whish doubles as answers to Hexproof decks, rest in peace, Splinter Twin, Spellskite, and many others. The man lands eliminate Moorland Haunt which can be brutal in an opening hand and fixes mana at the same time. I would also try for 25 lands if possible cause Tectonic Edge is amazing.
I started building this deck about a month ago. I've played it a handful of times and refined the list a bit from where I started. I like the deck but feel like it still needs something (probably just more testing than anything). It's fun though and I enjoyed developing it so far. Looking to improve upon my current build:
I've made a few similar decks just fooling around with bant in general. Here are my overall thoughts and what *I* would (roughly) do If I were building this deck. I still think you may want to just play some goyfs or scoozes, and may want more removal against zoo.
1. I don't like Mystic snake. It's not good. At its very best, its a worse cryptic command or less versatile Snapcaster Mage. I would be mindful of simply trying to throw in cards simply because they fit the "theme" of flash. There are times where it may be decent, but on the whole, I just don't think it's where you would want to be.
2. Mana leak is obviously a decent card, but if you're playing 3x remand, I really don't think you need 4x leak, especially in a deck that should be playing 4x path to exile. One of the nice things about remand is that it plays much better with path than leak does. I would trade the 4x leaks for +1 remand, +2 bant charm, and +1 path to exile. Going light on removal and heavy on permission is not where you want to be in modern. You're already going to be favored against decks that permission is good against with just a few remands, cliques, snares and cryptics. There just isn't a need to overkill those matchups and play even more permission than normal.
3. Sphinx's Revelation is a great card, but this deck feels more like a tempo deck, so I don't know if revelation is where you want to be. The curve is also fairly high already, so I don't think this is necessary.
4. Thought scour is great in a deck like this. It "combos" with moorland haunt, gives you something to do with 1 mana, allows you to flash in snapcaster EOT and gain value even if your opponent does nothing with their cards, and feeds your graveyard with relevant snapcaster targets.
The strategy is simple. Play mana dorks and use counter magic to control the early game. Move towards a tempo strategy midgame with the creature suite, advancing our board state while disrupting our opponent. Finally we want to close out the game before our opponents have a chance to overcome our tempo advantage. That's the idea in a nutshell.
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I don't think Goyf is good in a deck that only has instants, creatures and lands. He's really only good in decks that have multiple card types, and especially good with 1 cmc black discard like Inquisition of Kozilek. It's a great card for sure, but it doesn't feel right here.
On Manlands vs Moorland Haunt, I like the mana fixing, but am more inclined to go with a card I can use at instant speed. It's not really a win condition as much as it's about having extra pressure. I'm not sure if I like Haunt more than Township though. I've been feeling like colorless mana sources is hard on a 3 color deck too.
On Mystic Snake, it's been good but I also have an excess of 4 drops. It's great with Restoration Angel, but I'm thinking I need to cut some of those cards and maybe Snake is where I should make room.
Revelation got cut and now I'm running Think Twice. Thought Scour isn't a bad idea either. I hadn't considered that.
I was thinking more lands are the way to go too since I've noticed missing land drops is very bad for this deck. I at least want to get to 6.
Yeah, I sort of agree on goyf. In previous similar decks, I had played goyf with serum visions, but then I ran into the problem of not getting any creatures into the graveyard since all my removal exiles instead of kills. One thing about cantrips like thought scour is that they'll allow you to hit your mana drops much more consistently.
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I really like Boon Satyr in a deck like this. It puts on a decent clock just by itself, and is even better if we get to the point where we can bestow it. Has anyone else tested it?
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Now that Spell Queller is a card this deck might have got a serious upgrade. Being able to counter your opponents play and play to the board at the same time is nuts and now you have multiple creatures that can do that.
and then 21 lands accordingly. can run more fastlands if you want to throw in something like ghostquarter and leonin, but I like the exclusion here. Tell me what you guys think
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4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Mystic Snake
3 Restoration Angel
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Other Spells: 19
4 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
3 Remand
3 Path to Exile
2 Advent of the Wurm
2 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Gavony Township
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Voidmage Husher
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Path to Exile
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Remand
1 Cryptic Command
3 Faerie Macabre
The strategy is simple. Play mana dorks and use counter magic to control the early game. Move towards a tempo strategy midgame with the creature suite, advancing our board state while disrupting our opponent. Finally we want to close out the game before our opponents have a chance to overcome our tempo advantage. That's the idea in a nutshell.
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Thrun the last troll probably fits better than smiter unless you really hate lilli
I'm thinking maybe -1 Bird, +1 Cryptic for my build. I just don't know if I have enough blue mana sources to be able to consistently cast it on turn 4.
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
You bring up some good points. So far I have not played against Affinity or Zoo types of decks, and it's true that I don't really have a lot of ways to effectively answer them. I could find room for Hurkyl's Recall in the board, and maybe Engineered Explosives can find a spot for the small Zoo lists (also not bad vs Affinity). I think the Big Zoo builds are slow enough that I shouldn't have too many issues disrupting them.
I am hoping that I can counter enough burn spells so they run out of gas. Probably should play that a bit too and see if I need something else. Kitchen Finks isn't a bad idea. I probably won't run Spellstutter Sprite. I've played it in the past and it's really not very good without Bitterblossom.
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I do like Bant Charm.
I'm thinking this is what I will play with for now:
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mystic Snake
3 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Other Spells: 20
4 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
3 Remand
3 Path to Exile
2 Advent of the Wurm
2 Think Twice
1 Gavony Township
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Voidmage Husher
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Path to Exile
1 Remand
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Bant Charm
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Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Restoration Angel
Instants (21)
4 Path to Exile
3 Vapor Snag
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Bant Charm
2 Cryptic Command
1 Moorland Haunt
0 Celestial Colonnade
0 Stirring Wildwood
0 Treetop Village
0 Lands
It seems to me that most decks in this format just lose to hard counters, and targeted timely removal. That being said you do see most decks just beating down with exarchs of finks for the win, so blink turns into value fog.
So counter anything they play, and eventually value the out, or sit on you hands long enough to play out value creatures, and suede-counter they're removal with blinks for extra value. Seems good against everything in the format, but robots, and scapeshift?
Thoughts?
I think 3 Mystic Snakes is a bit much, probably cut them by 1. Add another advent.
Misty Rainforest x4
Scalding Tarn x2
Verdant Catacombs x1
Arid Mesa x1
Breeding Pool x3
Hallowed Fountain x3
Temple Garden x1
Glacial Fortress x1
Hinterland Harbor x1
Stirring Wildwood x1
Celestial Colonnade x1
Gavony Township x1
Island x2
Plains x1
Forest x1
Reasoning: All those sets of shock lands can add up negatively over the course of the game. This opens up for the fourth Cryptic. A resolved Blood Moon would be devastating and this helps a bit but a dedicated sideboard would be needed if your counter magic fails early from disrupting it. An option may be running Natutalize instead of Hurkyl's Recall whish doubles as answers to Hexproof decks, rest in peace, Splinter Twin, Spellskite, and many others. The man lands eliminate Moorland Haunt which can be brutal in an opening hand and fixes mana at the same time. I would also try for 25 lands if possible cause Tectonic Edge is amazing.
On Manlands vs Moorland Haunt, I like the mana fixing, but am more inclined to go with a card I can use at instant speed. It's not really a win condition as much as it's about having extra pressure. I'm not sure if I like Haunt more than Township though. I've been feeling like colorless mana sources is hard on a 3 color deck too.
On Mystic Snake, it's been good but I also have an excess of 4 drops. It's great with Restoration Angel, but I'm thinking I need to cut some of those cards and maybe Snake is where I should make room.
Revelation got cut and now I'm running Think Twice. Thought Scour isn't a bad idea either. I hadn't considered that.
I was thinking more lands are the way to go too since I've noticed missing land drops is very bad for this deck. I at least want to get to 6.
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4x judge's familiar
2x kitchen finks
3x mystic snake
4x noble hierarch
1x reflector mage
2x restoration angel
4x spell queller
3x spellstutter sprite
3x thalia, guardian of thraben
3x voice of resurgence
2x vendillion clique
4x path to exile
4x utility creatures, such as flickerwisp, leonin, selfless spirit, scooze, witness, etc.
and then 21 lands accordingly. can run more fastlands if you want to throw in something like ghostquarter and leonin, but I like the exclusion here. Tell me what you guys think