Except he isn't repeatable. Which is exactly why you want Mastermind. That and Mastermind can put a Annex back into your hand prior to Wildfire, if needed. He can also reset Walkers.
What the heck do you mean he's not repeatable? Have you ever even read Venser, the Sojourner? +2 the Reality Acid every turn. Yes, you can do it to Annex, then cast Wildfire, then steal their remaining land when Annex ETB again (or you can just sac the land you Annexed and it serves the same purpose). Not only is it a repeatable effect that doesn't cost mana and is more difficult to kill than the Mastermind, it also doesn't have summoning sickness (or the equivalent) and builts up to a -8 which is even more disruption. Venser protects you from attacks (most people will send creatures after your PW and not you) and essentially gaining 2 life a turn is nothing to scoff at. Venser also can reset PWs (though they can't re-use an ability the same turn). Why would you want a Mastermind where you have to pay to replay the card you're returning each turn (and be open to counters a second time) when you can blink it for free?
I think he mistook the planeswalking venser for the non-planeswalking venser. >_>
RUW might be nice too. Boom / Bust on your own Flagstones of Trokair sounds awesome.
Played my RG list at my LGS's Modern event last night and took first. It was kind of a weird tournament, we had 10 people but several dropped later on so we had 4 rounds but tie-breakers got super messed up. So despite going 3-1 I still had the best tie-breakers out of the couple of 3-1s. Anyways, I played against GW Auras, Jund, Soul Sisters and Bant Auras and I only lost to Bant Auras. His creatures got too big to have Wildfire kill them off. Mainboard Pyroclasm might be something I need to look into. I seem to bring it in every match.
I'm going to test with Gruul Signet over Coldsteel Heart next week. I don't think the coming in to play tapped has been a huge issue but I'd like to see if the color fixing makes a difference. If I can get my hands on some Mwonvuli Acid-Moss I may try those out as well.
What does Open the Vaults do for the deck? We aren't cycling enchantments or artifacts to our graveyard. I don't really see how it fits here but maybe there is something I'm missing. Care to explain?
EDIT: Here is my most current version of the deck.
I don't necessarily think that GR is better than UR. I like that it is more proactive than UR. Have you played with Plow Under? Forcing your opponent to blank on gas for two turns is tremendous tempo. I think both decks are fine, just different forms of interaction.
I was thinking about my own thread for this deck, because I have been playing it for a while, and am loving it. It is very enjoyable to play (and partially to grief my opponents) and can often win against higher tier 'real' decks (though I haven't played enough to know just how consistently). What I do know is I just recently had a great showing with it at a weekly Modern event at my LGS, only losing in the finals after beating two Melira Pod decks and one Tron deck.
Anyways, I'm excited to try to hone this deck and see what it can do. Here's what I've been working with
I've just made a few key adjustments. The addition of Tamiyo has been great. She is awesome at locking down lands (and you can choose a new one or a creature every turn) and her ultimate serves as an alternative win-con if you don't draw Frost Titan (I actually ended one game against Melira Pod with Tamiyo ultimate, triple Lightning Bolt, felt sweet).
As far as improving the deck, there is no way I'm touching the 4 Frost Titans or 4 Wildfire, they're too essential to the deck. I also probably wouldn't touch the 8 mana rocks or the 4 Annex, so it's a bit tough to decide how to change the deck, mostly just small tweaks and adjustments.
I'm also working on building a sideboard. I already have 2 extra Stone Rain in there, which I've sided in instead of Pyroclasm against Tron and Scapeshift. Every time I've come up against Liliana of the Veil it's been brutal, so I'm thinking of adding a set of Pithing Needle because the deck has almost no other way of dealing with her (other than countering her). And my recent experience with Melira Pod leads me to believe that I should add a set of Anger of the Gods as well to shut down Persist and Voice of Resurgence.
Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Played my RG list at my LGS's Modern event last night and took first. It was kind of a weird tournament, we had 10 people but several dropped later on so we had 4 rounds but tie-breakers got super messed up. So despite going 3-1 I still had the best tie-breakers out of the couple of 3-1s. Anyways, I played against GW Auras, Jund, Soul Sisters and Bant Auras and I only lost to Bant Auras. His creatures got too big to have Wildfire kill them off. Mainboard Pyroclasm might be something I need to look into. I seem to bring it in every match.
I'm going to test with Gruul Signet over Coldsteel Heart next week. I don't think the coming in to play tapped has been a huge issue but I'd like to see if the color fixing makes a difference. If I can get my hands on some Mwonvuli Acid-Moss I may try those out as well.
What does Open the Vaults do for the deck? We aren't cycling enchantments or artifacts to our graveyard. I don't really see how it fits here but maybe there is something I'm missing. Care to explain?
After you cast wildfire and saccing the stolen lands, you can bring back the Land-Stealing auras back in w/ Open the Vaults.
Another approach would be playing Looter cards such as Faithless Looting, TfK, and Ideas Unbound to discard some of the auras into the Graveyard and reanimating them via Open the Vaults.
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For the GR version, have you considered Utopia Sprawl
You play easily enough forests already, and the deck seems a bit slow as is. Some version's I've seen don't run a single 1 drop!
4x lightning bolt also seems like a must. A key facet of this deck has to be surviving until wildfire mana. As is, I'm a bit doubtful. A chunk of early damage and a single surviving creatures (a middle-sized goyf, persist creature, ravager) will wreck you even if you resolve the namesake spell. Plus it's just a generally amazing spell.
I've also thought about running Garruk or Koth to to ramp into wildfire. They also conveniently double as win conditions for after it resolves.
After you cast wildfire and saccing the stolen lands, you can bring back the Land-Stealing auras back in w/ Open the Vaults.
Another approach would be playing Looter cards such as Faithless Looting, TfK, and Ideas Unbound to discard some of the auras into the Graveyard and reanimating them via Open the Vaults.
If you are pulling back the Land Stealing auras, then you hit 6 mana again. Which would mean you could be casting a Titan or another Wildfire. Either of which will make sure your opponent is not getting back into the game.
If you are going to loot enchantments/artifacts and then cheat them into play, there is probably more broken stuff you can be playing than Annex. Like Omniscience, Form of the Dragon, Filigree Angel or Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Though this idea would make a cool deck if you could get it to work.
I agree Open the Vaults is powerful. I just don't think the affect is necessary in this deck when it involves splashing an unneeded color for something that can be accomplished without it.
It's a good choice purely on first principles: it is not heavily interactive and has a clear game plan, but still requires some good decision making...and it's cheap.
Just wanted to say that the deck has performed exceedingly well in casual games so far and is an absolute riot to play!
I have always loved Eminent Domain. It sure would be nice if it could make the jump to competitive in Modern. Not sure if this is possible -- might need some new cards from coming sets. But at the very least it is a strong and entertaining way to play Modern on a casual basis. I hope more people give it a whirl.
Yeah, I started brewing a deck to emulate how I've seen Wildfire cards work in EDH as a tool to blow your opponents out of the game. I formulated my list prior to finding out about the UR lists unfortunately but I've been happy with the way mine has developed. Seeing as how this thread is sort of transforming into more of a "let's use Wildfire" discussion, I figured I'd contribute. I'd also like to preface that my list is just supposed to be a fairly competitive fun deck. I don't expect it to take down any high level REL tournaments. Just something different to play at FNM level tourneys.
Optimal plays... Well, hands that have a Borderpost and a Mox Opal are going to give you at least 5 mana on turn 3. If you have any other ramp, you can hit 6 on turn 3. So Plow Under on the play is pretty good. Primal Command there stalls them for a turn and tutors a Titan for your next turn. I'll keep just about any hand with those two cards and gas.
Turn 2 Boom with a Darksteel Citadel in play is pretty solid at buying some time against most decks.
Turn 2 Coldsteel Heart, Turn 3 Mind Stone + Talisman, Turn 4 Titan/Wildfire. Good on the play or draw.
I've never really had issues with the mana base outside of keeping a couple 1 land hands and then failing to find a second one. All of the mana rocks (other than Mind Stone) provide the right colors for you. You just need to be mindful of your future plays when naming a color with Coldsteel Heart. I used to run 16 lands, I added in a 5th Forest and cut a Coldsteel Heart because it is pretty critical to have at least 2 lands in an opening hand. I'm hoping that it ups the opener consistency without making me flood on lands late game but I haven't tested it yet.
I also specifically don't recommend running Mana Dorks in this deck. They will die in your Wildfire and then leave you just as far behind as your opponent. Which isn't what you want to be doing. Primal Command has been phenomenal for me. It gives you that turn of tempo and gets you a threat for the following turn. Plow Under is more potent though, so that's why I run the 4/3 split in its favor. Theoretically, you should only need one or two creatures to close out a game unless you are playing against a deck that has an abnormal amount of removal. Most people aren't prepared to handle a 6cmc 6/6 on turn 4. Haha.
Bookmarked because I just bought Nick's latest deck and need this piloting advice
I have been playing this deck on MTGO with above average success for the past week. I am wondering how others view Remand vs Mana Leak. I personally haven't tested with Remand, but I find Mana Leak to be a very key card for me. The ability to hard counter Planeswalkers and not just have them recast the following turn is essential for game 1 success. However, this deck could definitely use some extra card draw and I really understand how important Ponder was to finding what the deck needs. Serum Visions doesn't really compare. I find myself sometimes cracking my Mind Stones EOT just to dig for Frost Titans. What are your opinions and experiences on Remand vs Mana Leak?
What about playing a couple copies of Arc-Slogger as another finisher? It's not as powerful as Frost Titan, but it is 5cc rather than 6cc which means you can curve it into Wildfire (and it also survives). Mirrodin/Kamigawa era Ponza decks used to use it as a finisher. The only removal spell it dies to that Frost Titan doesn't is Dismember. Also, if you choose to play Wildfire as a Seven (which you are doing anyways if you play a Frost Titan first.), you can activate Arc Slogger once on the same turn to finish off a creature with more than 4 toughness (Tarmogoyf).
Also Boseiju, Who Shelters All, since pretty much every counterspell in the format can hit a six mana sorcery.
I'd just like to say Spell Snare doesn't. But, I agree with your comment. I like running a copy of Boseiju in my RG list. I can cast Primeval Titan off of Cavern of Souls to protect my follow up Wildfire.
With my meta shifting towards a more competitive scene, I decided to bust out my GR deck just for fun. I ended up going 3-2 losing to Melira Pod and UR Storm. I'm sure I can beat pod, I just broke the cardinal rule game 2 of the deck and kept a one land hand and didn't do anything. Game 1 I dropped turn 3 Thundermaw and he scooped. Game 3 he saw all the hate cards and I drew mono 6 drops on a decent keep that had 4 mana in it. I went 1-2 against Storm and I've adjusted the sideboard to include some Trinispheres against him. The game I won, I hit a turn 3 Blood Moon and he got stuck on one Blue and couldn't find a Manamorphos to play out his hand. I was poised to Wildfire turn 4 and blow him out of game 3 but he went turn 2 Ascension into triple Gitaxian Probe (activating the ascension) and then proceeded to Grapeshot me for thirty-some damage on turn 3. Otherwise, the deck steamrolled UWR Twin Control, Affinity and BW Hatebears. I was pleasantly surprised with the deck's performance.
I changed up the Mainboard a bit. I put more mana rocks that produce colored mana and went to 4 Mox Opal. Here's what I'll be playing with after reassessing the sideboard for my meta:
Anyways, I'm loving this list. I don't think it'll be Tier 1 or anything, but it's pretty solid and the board state at the end of games you win are ridiculous.
Edit: After playing for a few weeks with the list, I swapped Trinisphere to the MB in place of Blood Moon. Trinisphere with Plow Under can be insanely back breaking for opponents. It also counts as an artifact for Mox Opal. I also dropped Obstinate Baloth from the SB for Dismember in an attempt to help the Twin match up.
Fun story as well, I was playing against Melira Pod and my opponent was able to naturally draw into his combo on turn 4 after I put his Pod on his library and shuffled it away with Primal Command. So he jumped to 17 billion life. Next turn I cast Wildfire and set him back to one land. He passed back. I dropped Trinisphere shutting down any speed at which he could rebuild his board. We sat around for 30 minutes. I kept blowing up his lands with Wildfires, I resolved several Inferno Titans/Hellkites and killed any creatures he tried to get into play. With Primal Command, I couldn't mill out. So the game came to the point of turn by turn waiting until he milled out. I ended up doing something like 500 damage by the time he scooped. It was such a good feeling winning against him after he combo'd off. Game 2 I cast two Plow Unders against him on turn 3 and 4 and then Inferno Titan made him scoop.
Well, I still think the UR version suits Wildfire the best. That's because blue has exactly what red lacks, which is Annex and Mana Leak. Plus Izzet Charm fits like a charm here (duh).
However, it seems that the most threatening card this deck can face is Tarmogoyf, because not only it lands on turn 2, which can be faster than your Mana Leak, but also survives Lightning Bolt and even Wildfire itself.
People even considered running Destructive Force to face it, but that seems just wrong. There's a huge gap between 6cc and 7cc that is usually of 2 turns, so that's basically a no no.
In my opinion, what makes this strategy fragile is relying only on Frost Titan as the only creature to get game, because if you can't find it, usually you're dead. So maybe if you got something else to back yourself on, like AEther Membrane or Hanweir Watchkeep could do the trick.
Another creature that I found interesting would be Goblin Arsonist. This little guy can give lots of pressure against many creatures, plus it kills a tarmo with Wildfire.
I hate to sorta necro here but it looks like its my only option. In terms of new tools I'm wondering what people might think about the addition of hedron archive, anger of the gods > pyroclasm, geier reach sanitarium, and even metalwork colossus seeing as how this deck wants to jam so many mana rocks? Frosty still might be a better option because of the pseudo hexproof after we have wildfired away all our op's critters.
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Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
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What the heck do you mean he's not repeatable? Have you ever even read Venser, the Sojourner? +2 the Reality Acid every turn. Yes, you can do it to Annex, then cast Wildfire, then steal their remaining land when Annex ETB again (or you can just sac the land you Annexed and it serves the same purpose). Not only is it a repeatable effect that doesn't cost mana and is more difficult to kill than the Mastermind, it also doesn't have summoning sickness (or the equivalent) and builts up to a -8 which is even more disruption. Venser protects you from attacks (most people will send creatures after your PW and not you) and essentially gaining 2 life a turn is nothing to scoff at. Venser also can reset PWs (though they can't re-use an ability the same turn). Why would you want a Mastermind where you have to pay to replay the card you're returning each turn (and be open to counters a second time) when you can blink it for free?
RUW might be nice too. Boom / Bust on your own Flagstones of Trokair sounds awesome.
Also, offers the ability to use Open the Vaults.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Anyways, here is the list I ran:
4 Primeval Titan
4 Inferno Titan
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
Spells: 14
4 Wildfire
3 Boom // Bust
4 Plow Under
3 Primal Command
Artifacts: 18
3 Mox Opal
3 Coldsteel Heart
4 Mind Stone
4 Talisman of Impulse
4 Firewild Borderpost
5 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 Pyroclasm
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Blood Moon
2 Beast Within
1 Naturalize
2 Dismember
2 Obstinate Baloth
I'm going to test with Gruul Signet over Coldsteel Heart next week. I don't think the coming in to play tapped has been a huge issue but I'd like to see if the color fixing makes a difference. If I can get my hands on some Mwonvuli Acid-Moss I may try those out as well.
What does Open the Vaults do for the deck? We aren't cycling enchantments or artifacts to our graveyard. I don't really see how it fits here but maybe there is something I'm missing. Care to explain?
EDIT: Here is my most current version of the deck.
4 Primeval Titan
4 Inferno Titan
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
Spells: 14
3 Pyroclasm
3 Primal Command
4 Plow Under
4 Wildfire
Artifacts: 18
3 Mox Opal
3 Gruul Signet
4 Talisman of Impulse
4 Mind Stone
4 Firewild Borderpost
5 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Vandalblast
2 Back to Nature
1 Naturalize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dismember
3 Blood Moon
1 Pyroclasm
2 Obstinate Baloth
Anyways, I'm excited to try to hone this deck and see what it can do. Here's what I've been working with
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
8 Island
8 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Frost Titan
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Artifacts:
4 Mind Stone
4 Izzet Signet
Enchantments:
4 Annex
3 Dream Leash
4 Wildfire
2 Pyroclasm
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Sleight of Hand
2 Stone Rain
So I've kept close to the original idea from this article: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/186
I've just made a few key adjustments. The addition of Tamiyo has been great. She is awesome at locking down lands (and you can choose a new one or a creature every turn) and her ultimate serves as an alternative win-con if you don't draw Frost Titan (I actually ended one game against Melira Pod with Tamiyo ultimate, triple Lightning Bolt, felt sweet).
As far as improving the deck, there is no way I'm touching the 4 Frost Titans or 4 Wildfire, they're too essential to the deck. I also probably wouldn't touch the 8 mana rocks or the 4 Annex, so it's a bit tough to decide how to change the deck, mostly just small tweaks and adjustments.
I'm also working on building a sideboard. I already have 2 extra Stone Rain in there, which I've sided in instead of Pyroclasm against Tron and Scapeshift. Every time I've come up against Liliana of the Veil it's been brutal, so I'm thinking of adding a set of Pithing Needle because the deck has almost no other way of dealing with her (other than countering her). And my recent experience with Melira Pod leads me to believe that I should add a set of Anger of the Gods as well to shut down Persist and Voice of Resurgence.
Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.
After you cast wildfire and saccing the stolen lands, you can bring back the Land-Stealing auras back in w/ Open the Vaults.
Another approach would be playing Looter cards such as Faithless Looting, TfK, and Ideas Unbound to discard some of the auras into the Graveyard and reanimating them via Open the Vaults.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
You play easily enough forests already, and the deck seems a bit slow as is. Some version's I've seen don't run a single 1 drop!
4x lightning bolt also seems like a must. A key facet of this deck has to be surviving until wildfire mana. As is, I'm a bit doubtful. A chunk of early damage and a single surviving creatures (a middle-sized goyf, persist creature, ravager) will wreck you even if you resolve the namesake spell. Plus it's just a generally amazing spell.
I've also thought about running Garruk or Koth to to ramp into wildfire. They also conveniently double as win conditions for after it resolves.
If you are pulling back the Land Stealing auras, then you hit 6 mana again. Which would mean you could be casting a Titan or another Wildfire. Either of which will make sure your opponent is not getting back into the game.
If you are going to loot enchantments/artifacts and then cheat them into play, there is probably more broken stuff you can be playing than Annex. Like Omniscience, Form of the Dragon, Filigree Angel or Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Though this idea would make a cool deck if you could get it to work.
I agree Open the Vaults is powerful. I just don't think the affect is necessary in this deck when it involves splashing an unneeded color for something that can be accomplished without it.
4 Annex
4 Dream Leash
4 Izzet Signet
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
4 Mind Stone
2 Pyroclasm
1 Repeal
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Wildfire
10 Mountain
It's a good choice purely on first principles: it is not heavily interactive and has a clear game plan, but still requires some good decision making...and it's cheap.
Just wanted to say that the deck has performed exceedingly well in casual games so far and is an absolute riot to play!
I have always loved Eminent Domain. It sure would be nice if it could make the jump to competitive in Modern. Not sure if this is possible -- might need some new cards from coming sets. But at the very least it is a strong and entertaining way to play Modern on a casual basis. I hope more people give it a whirl.
Bookmarked because I just bought Nick's latest deck and need this piloting advice
Other possible cards include Shah of Naar Isle and Simian Spirit Guide. Also Boseiju, Who Shelters All, since pretty much every counterspell in the format can hit a six mana sorcery.
I'd just like to say Spell Snare doesn't. But, I agree with your comment. I like running a copy of Boseiju in my RG list. I can cast Primeval Titan off of Cavern of Souls to protect my follow up Wildfire.
I changed up the Mainboard a bit. I put more mana rocks that produce colored mana and went to 4 Mox Opal. Here's what I'll be playing with after reassessing the sideboard for my meta:
5 Forest
5 Mountain
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Darksteel Citadel
Ramp: 18
4 Mox Opal
4 Gruul Signet
4 Talisman of Impulse
2 Mind Stone
4 Firewild Borderpost
3 Trinisphere
4 Primal Command
4 Plow Under
4 Wildfire
Creatures: 11
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Inferno Titan
3 Primeval Titan
3 Blood Moon
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vandalblast
2 Back to Nature
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Dismember
Anyways, I'm loving this list. I don't think it'll be Tier 1 or anything, but it's pretty solid and the board state at the end of games you win are ridiculous.
Edit: After playing for a few weeks with the list, I swapped Trinisphere to the MB in place of Blood Moon. Trinisphere with Plow Under can be insanely back breaking for opponents. It also counts as an artifact for Mox Opal. I also dropped Obstinate Baloth from the SB for Dismember in an attempt to help the Twin match up.
Fun story as well, I was playing against Melira Pod and my opponent was able to naturally draw into his combo on turn 4 after I put his Pod on his library and shuffled it away with Primal Command. So he jumped to 17 billion life. Next turn I cast Wildfire and set him back to one land. He passed back. I dropped Trinisphere shutting down any speed at which he could rebuild his board. We sat around for 30 minutes. I kept blowing up his lands with Wildfires, I resolved several Inferno Titans/Hellkites and killed any creatures he tried to get into play. With Primal Command, I couldn't mill out. So the game came to the point of turn by turn waiting until he milled out. I ended up doing something like 500 damage by the time he scooped. It was such a good feeling winning against him after he combo'd off. Game 2 I cast two Plow Unders against him on turn 3 and 4 and then Inferno Titan made him scoop.
However, it seems that the most threatening card this deck can face is Tarmogoyf, because not only it lands on turn 2, which can be faster than your Mana Leak, but also survives Lightning Bolt and even Wildfire itself.
People even considered running Destructive Force to face it, but that seems just wrong. There's a huge gap between 6cc and 7cc that is usually of 2 turns, so that's basically a no no.
In my opinion, what makes this strategy fragile is relying only on Frost Titan as the only creature to get game, because if you can't find it, usually you're dead. So maybe if you got something else to back yourself on, like AEther Membrane or Hanweir Watchkeep could do the trick.
Another creature that I found interesting would be Goblin Arsonist. This little guy can give lots of pressure against many creatures, plus it kills a tarmo with Wildfire.
Any thoughts on this?
Greetings
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"