Just from my warmup tests against Pod, I can tell this is going to be a really rough one. Spellskite is bad. Pridemage is bad. Eternal Witness recurring either of those is bad. Reveillark is bad, bad, bad. Melira gaining thirty trillion life is bad. Feeder and Angel gaining thirty trillion life and giving the creatures thirty trillion +1/+1 counters is bad. Chord of Calling and Pod grabbing all of those tools is bad.
Two questions about this matchup:
1) Should we just try to race them in game 1? It's almost impossible because once they know what you are doing they can fetch a Spellskite to stall you for 1 turn and then blow up your Belcher with Pridemage. And Witness can repeat that whole cycle (don't get me started on Reveillark). So what's our game 1 plan?
2) For game 2, should we just be relying on our Torpor Orbs? Maybe also add in Grafdigger or something? How do we want to configure our board to handle Pod while not screwing it up against other matches. The 3 Claim, 3 Fog, and 3 Orb are pretty non-negotiable for me. But that still leaves 6 flexible slots we can tinker with.
Hey guys. Loving the way the deck is shaping up. I read through all the posts and had a brief question (and my apologies if I missed it or there's no room for it): if there is an issue with protecting the 'Belcher once it is out, would Apostle's Blessing have a place, even in the sideboard? Keep up the good work
1) Should we just try to race them in game 1? It's almost impossible because once they know what you are doing they can fetch a Spellskite to stall you for 1 turn and then blow up your Belcher with Pridemage. And Witness can repeat that whole cycle (don't get me started on Reveillark). So what's our game 1 plan?
Game 1 I don't see any choice but to race them. Hopefully we can land Pithing Needle before they know what we're up to and search out Spellskite, if not we can always needle their kite.
2) For game 2, should we just be relying on our Torpor Orbs? Maybe also add in Grafdigger or something? How do we want to configure our board to handle Pod while not screwing it up against other matches. The 3 Claim, 3 Fog, and 3 Orb are pretty non-negotiable for me. But that still leaves 6 flexible slots we can tinker with.
Perhaps a sideboard that looks like this would work.
Wheel of Sun and Moon
Pros: Can stop almost any mill deck stone in it's tracks. Can be used to get extra value out of our own sorceries and instants. I could be wrong, but because it is a replacement effect it turn off all death triggers (I'm talking when ~ dies, not when ~ leaves the battlefield). Dodges red removal. Even when removed what it did is still done. Since sacrificing is part of it's cost Pridemage can't be recurred after blowing it up. Hoses Tarmogoyf and Deathright Shaman
Grafdigger's Cage
Pros: Can be Fabricated. Prevents creatures from entering the battlefield from Libraries. Prevents graveyard shenanigans with cards already in the graveyard when it's played. Cheaper and colorless.
maybe a fabricate pre-board is the answer, I could totally see us running 1x torpor orb/1x pithing needle/1x defense grid/1x spellskite (depending on meta) maindeck as a searchable answer G1 to our worst matchups
and if robots/boggles is racing you, the answer is fracturing gust. its just insane against them
I don't see that as much of a problem, sure Torpor Orb "shuts down" the add on ability of 3 of the cards in our whole deck, that is if we play Torpor Orb ahead of Sylvan Ranger which we would only do if facing something like twin or pod and in that case the hit we take wont be near as bad as the advantage we gain. Main deck Path to Exile, at least in this list, is a dead card much more often than Sylvan Ranger, remember Utopia Sprawl locks into a color when you play it, and we'll probably want to either pick green (in order to cast more G tutors) or blue to cast Fabricate. That leaves us with only 4 Wproducers.
Ratchet Bomb doesn't solve enough issues quickly enough to deserve a spot in the board.
I played a lot today, against a lot of decks. In the first game, preboard, midrange control really walks over us. The counters are just way too overbearing, and some of these decks run 10+ counters. I also played against a combo elves varient, although slowly than traditional combo elves, it still is a fast deck. Very fun games, usually in our favor, but whoever goes first has a huge advantage. There was this one game I lost because he had some stupid creature with forestwalk. Really, forestwalk, who runs forestwalk, lol.
A few general notes. ktkenshinx is spot on about the affinity match up, and Birds of Paradise save our ass so much in that match up. There are other match ups where flying creatures matter, and I'm under the impression that all builds of the deck should main 4 Birds of Paradise.
Generally this deck doesn't have to mulligan frequently, but when we have to mulligan past 6 it REALLY sucks. I know that's the case for any deck, but for a combo deck that NEEDS to draw Goblin Charbelcher every game before turn 5 this is really unfortunate.
I generally though creatures wouldn't matter, but there are some instances where I wish I had some type of spot removal, I've been playing against a few unblockable things, and it's very very frustrating.
Has to be said again, counters suck.
In the first game, preboard, midrange control really walks over us. The counters are just way too overbearing, and some of these decks run 10+ counters.
Has to be said again, counters suck.
yeah, it can, and it does, but still I wanted to highlight general notes about the games before the board. By the way, Autumn's Veil is better than Defense Grid, because it ensures the spell can't be countered, it can't be removed like Defense Grid, it costs less and it's instant speed.
But Autumn's Veil only works once, must be played the turn you play Belcher (or whichever other card you are trying to save from being countered) is reactive rather than proactive, and as far as removal is concerned, other than detention sphere and the like most control decks run very little in the way of artifact removal.
The way I see it, the only way you can reliably play Autumn's Veil w/ this deck is thru Recross the Path w/ no lands in library, then setting it up so you either draw into Autumn's Veil when you have Belcher in your hand OR draw into Belcher if Veil is in your hand.
However, the same could be done w/ Defensive Grid too. And between Defensive Grid, and Autumn's Veil, You go w/ the one you can tutor for already if you run U.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On the works: Leyline Deck Wins
:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Wow, I take a break from brewing to pursue a relationshsip with someone and this deck thread is stickied?
Seems like you guys are taking a super meta approach with this deck, and I can't be more please with how this deck runs now! It feels like Legacy ANT, we have a few pieces of disruption and out deck can play itself!
Great job everyone. The sideboard looks super stable as well. Can't be more impressed with the work you guys put in while I went missing.
Can't wait to sleeve this up next week when my LGS does Modern Constructed on Tuesday, where the prize pool is about 16 packs of Modern Masters
Hey guys, played a lot of games tonight at my LGS. Pretty casual today and didn't play against any tier 1 stuff, 1 free mulligan (which I seldom used) and no sideboards, but I still wanted to report in.
The deck totally kicked ass. I mostly played against Red Blue control and Boros Aggro. Against the control, going first helps and makes it more challenging for our opponent to counter the important early game spells. With this match up, I always put out the Goblin Charbelcher early, often as early as turn 3. I had a lot of fun cracking it early with 1 or 2 lands still in the deck and still winning.
When it came to Boros, I was a little more paranoid about playing Goblin Charbelcher early, but because my version of the deck runs a few more creatures than other versions I'm seeing, I was able to chump a lot of threats and really hold the fort down until I was able to combo off. There was a hillarious game where I just didn't draw the Goblin Charbelcher but ending up winning with Chancellor of the Tangle beats (2 of them). People laugh at it, but the vigilance really makes it a serious threat when it's on the board.
I also played against a burn deck for a few games. It's actually pretty easy to race if we go first. And before the opponent understands the strategy, them burning mana dorks on turn 2 or 3 only makes it more difficult for them to kill us later.
Lastly, I must say Harrow is just stupidly silly good. I really think it's worth it to play, and when resolved on turn 1 or 2, it just accelerates us so much it's absurd. Harrow leads to turn 4 wins. I don't run the full playset though, because it's a card we don't want to see more than once a game and the last card we'd want 2 of in our opening hand.
Very nice, what was your record? Did you go undefeated? Any losses? If so to what deck and what were the causes?
Thanks a bunch for reporting back. I think we are in the play and report phase of this decks life.
Very nice, what was your record? Did you go undefeated? Any losses? If so to what deck and what were the causes?
Thanks a bunch for reporting back. I think we are in the play and report phase of this decks life.
Yeah HB, I'd love to hear about your matches and your list.
Re Harrow, I would never be able to run it in my metagame because of the amount of Twin around here. It's solidly 8-10% of the metagame on top of the UWR Control (also about 8-10%). Harrow has me down 3-4 cards in 20% of my matches and that's rough.
Is there an established list I can toy with? I see the lists in the OP but I wasn't completely sure if they were the best lists to date.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
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Two questions about this matchup:
1) Should we just try to race them in game 1? It's almost impossible because once they know what you are doing they can fetch a Spellskite to stall you for 1 turn and then blow up your Belcher with Pridemage. And Witness can repeat that whole cycle (don't get me started on Reveillark). So what's our game 1 plan?
2) For game 2, should we just be relying on our Torpor Orbs? Maybe also add in Grafdigger or something? How do we want to configure our board to handle Pod while not screwing it up against other matches. The 3 Claim, 3 Fog, and 3 Orb are pretty non-negotiable for me. But that still leaves 6 flexible slots we can tinker with.
Game 1 I don't see any choice but to race them. Hopefully we can land Pithing Needle before they know what we're up to and search out Spellskite, if not we can always needle their kite.
Perhaps a sideboard that looks like this would work.
4x Fog
3x Torpor Orb
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Defense Grid
3x Nature's Claim
Or maybe we can use Spellskite it could draw fire from Pridemage, Angel, or Feeder
Wheel of Sun and Moon puts a stop to all of the graveyard recurrence shenanigans including Persist
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Of course I may have missed it myself.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
Both: Stops graveyard shenanigans.
Wheel of Sun and Moon
Pros: Can stop almost any mill deck stone in it's tracks. Can be used to get extra value out of our own sorceries and instants. I could be wrong, but because it is a replacement effect it turn off all death triggers (I'm talking when ~ dies, not when ~ leaves the battlefield). Dodges red removal. Even when removed what it did is still done. Since sacrificing is part of it's cost Pridemage can't be recurred after blowing it up. Hoses Tarmogoyf and Deathright Shaman
Grafdigger's Cage
Pros: Can be Fabricated. Prevents creatures from entering the battlefield from Libraries. Prevents graveyard shenanigans with cards already in the graveyard when it's played. Cheaper and colorless.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
and if robots/boggles is racing you, the answer is fracturing gust. its just insane against them
1x Breeding Pool
6x Forest
Artifact (8)
4x Goblin Charbelcher
2x Torpor Orb
2x Pithing Needle
Sorcery (19)
4x Caravan Vigil
4x Fabricate
4x Lay of the Land
3x Recross the Paths
4x Safewright Quest
3x Utopia Sprawl
Creature (23)
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Arbor Elf
4x Chancellor of the Tangle
3x Sylvan Ranger
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
3x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Spellskite
4x Fog
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Defense Grid
3x Nature's Claim
Wheel of Sun and Moon can go down and Defense Grid up if we find Fabricate getting countered thus preventing us from tutoring Defense Grid.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
Torpor Orb Kills Sylvan Ranger's usability if it's in main. >_>
If the deck had MD PtE, this shouldn't be that much of a problem IMO.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
I played a lot today, against a lot of decks. In the first game, preboard, midrange control really walks over us. The counters are just way too overbearing, and some of these decks run 10+ counters. I also played against a combo elves varient, although slowly than traditional combo elves, it still is a fast deck. Very fun games, usually in our favor, but whoever goes first has a huge advantage. There was this one game I lost because he had some stupid creature with forestwalk. Really, forestwalk, who runs forestwalk, lol.
A few general notes. ktkenshinx is spot on about the affinity match up, and Birds of Paradise save our ass so much in that match up. There are other match ups where flying creatures matter, and I'm under the impression that all builds of the deck should main 4 Birds of Paradise.
Generally this deck doesn't have to mulligan frequently, but when we have to mulligan past 6 it REALLY sucks. I know that's the case for any deck, but for a combo deck that NEEDS to draw Goblin Charbelcher every game before turn 5 this is really unfortunate.
I generally though creatures wouldn't matter, but there are some instances where I wish I had some type of spot removal, I've been playing against a few unblockable things, and it's very very frustrating.
Has to be said again, counters suck.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
That's why I love Defense Grid.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
However, the same could be done w/ Defensive Grid too. And between Defensive Grid, and Autumn's Veil, You go w/ the one you can tutor for already if you run U.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Seems like you guys are taking a super meta approach with this deck, and I can't be more please with how this deck runs now! It feels like Legacy ANT, we have a few pieces of disruption and out deck can play itself!
Great job everyone. The sideboard looks super stable as well. Can't be more impressed with the work you guys put in while I went missing.
Can't wait to sleeve this up next week when my LGS does Modern Constructed on Tuesday, where the prize pool is about 16 packs of Modern Masters
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
The deck totally kicked ass. I mostly played against Red Blue control and Boros Aggro. Against the control, going first helps and makes it more challenging for our opponent to counter the important early game spells. With this match up, I always put out the Goblin Charbelcher early, often as early as turn 3. I had a lot of fun cracking it early with 1 or 2 lands still in the deck and still winning.
When it came to Boros, I was a little more paranoid about playing Goblin Charbelcher early, but because my version of the deck runs a few more creatures than other versions I'm seeing, I was able to chump a lot of threats and really hold the fort down until I was able to combo off. There was a hillarious game where I just didn't draw the Goblin Charbelcher but ending up winning with Chancellor of the Tangle beats (2 of them). People laugh at it, but the vigilance really makes it a serious threat when it's on the board.
I also played against a burn deck for a few games. It's actually pretty easy to race if we go first. And before the opponent understands the strategy, them burning mana dorks on turn 2 or 3 only makes it more difficult for them to kill us later.
Lastly, I must say Harrow is just stupidly silly good. I really think it's worth it to play, and when resolved on turn 1 or 2, it just accelerates us so much it's absurd. Harrow leads to turn 4 wins. I don't run the full playset though, because it's a card we don't want to see more than once a game and the last card we'd want 2 of in our opening hand.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Thanks a bunch for reporting back. I think we are in the play and report phase of this decks life.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
Yeah HB, I'd love to hear about your matches and your list.
Re Harrow, I would never be able to run it in my metagame because of the amount of Twin around here. It's solidly 8-10% of the metagame on top of the UWR Control (also about 8-10%). Harrow has me down 3-4 cards in 20% of my matches and that's rough.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77