Played another league yesterday, I am leaning towards MTGO just not drawing as well as paper now. The draws always seem to be 1 turn too late and I've never had this much trouble drawing lands when needed or lords.
Had a great night in the tournament practice room on mtgo last night, 7-1.
Loss was to gw value
Wins vs burn with spectacle cards, br burn, jund, uw control, artifact deck with panharmonicon and semblance anvil, amulet titan, and a combo deck using leonin relic warder, phyrexian metamorph and alter of the brood.
Supposedly there is an innovation set due to come out this year, per MaRo, and its going to be based around modern. What are your thoughts/expectations for this set? Do you believe there is a chance the print older cards into modern legality with this set? Will they print brand new cards for modern bypassing standard?
I have to share this one... Played against jund online, in game 3 I had 2 Sinew, 1 Diffuson, 1 Manaweft and 1 Frenetic in play. Opponent cast Damnation. I flip 5 coins. Called all 5 correctly. Opponent scooped immediately.
Played a 10 people modern tournament saturday, went 2-2. Won against rg valakut and burn. Lost to Dredge and devoted company, both matchups seem impossible to win. Didnt have lucky against devoted company, first game he combed me on turn 3 and game 2 even with removal he was able to combo, and dredge I lost in four turns both games, seem that if we dont get a very good hand with some relics the matchup seem really hard.
Dredge is a tricky one, you have to get a board presence and avoid conflagrate at the same time. Diffusion will help keep from a conflagrate wiping the board, but does little to increase the clock, Sedge will help with presenting a board presence. I suggest for Dredge siding in Relic and Syphon. Syphon will help recover some life after Creeping chills, you can easily get out of conflagrate range just with 1 really big swing once syphon is in play. Dredge is a matchup where you can cut creature interaction because we can battle them on the board. Also bring in Warping wail, at worst it exiles a bloodghast and at best it counters a lethal conflagrate.
Played a friendly modern league last night. Another 3-2 finish... Should have been 4-1 due to land flood in game 3 of round 3.
Round 1, 4 color Vannifar (no red), 2-1. Lost game 2 to Vizier/Druid/Ballista combo. Dismembered and Necrotic'd Vannifar every other time.
Round 2, U Tron, 2-1. Turn 5 kill in game 1, he almost didnt let me know what he was on, only played a tron land the turn before death. He got game 2 by frustrating me to death. Game 3 he mulled to oblivion.
Round 3, UR delver w/ pteramander, 1-2. Lost game 1 to too many bolts. Won game 2 with a turn 3 CoCo. Lost game 3 due to super mana flood even thru using all 3 fetches.
Round 4, Esper control (looked a lot like 8 rack at first), 2-1. Lost game 1 to a phyrexian arena and kalitas. Got game 2 with 2 mutavaults. A late coco got me 2 lords and the game in the 3rd.
Round 5, storm, 0-2. I misclicked when choosing to keep or mulligan in game 2, would have had a 6 card hand with 2 lands, a relic, a sphere, and 2 slivers but I accidentally mulled to 5. Feels real bad, could have at least evened up the match.
I failed to see chalice even a single time when I brought it in. Would have been really handy vs that delver build...
Sure the keep in that game 3 of round 3 was suspect, but one expects to see at least 1 spell in their first 5 cards past the opening hand, seriously. I'll take the blame for keeping a 4 lander, but not seeing a single spell in the top 5 cards past the opener...
No, but I am obsessing over the possibility of Modern Horizons to get us really good and necessary Legacy Slivers Crystalline, Hibernation, Muscle), plus the possibility of new Slivers that could be valuable in this modern environment.
I am having a hard time keeping my expectations and imagination in check. I think we really need to keep our hopes away from expectations to avoid a precipitous let down. I remember a pretty big body blow when finding out Dominaria had no slivers. I really want to believe there will be slivers in horizons but until there is proof we should expect nothing.
Someone get on blogatog and ask Rosewater! I'm not on that social media site.
SCG Regional Report
246 players - 9 rounds of swiss
I would like to preface this by stating that had it not been for my friend who rode with me doing well early on in this event I would have dropped after round 4. However, since he was sitting 3-1 I continued to play and changed my whole day.
Round 1 - Dredge 0-2. In game 1, I ended up mulliganing to 4 cards and forced to keep a 0 land hand even scrying another creature to the bottom. I drew a land on turn 1 but never saw land 2 and died to 16 power on the board on turn 3. Game 2 I brought in 2 Relic, 2 Warping wail and 2 Syphon. This was a bit more of a game but I failed to see any sideboard cards. On turn 3 I had 2 3/3 lords removed by a conflagrate that pretty much ended my chances.
Round 2 - Jund 0-2. I shuffled extremely long before playing this round to try to avoid the land issues on round 1 however it was not meant to be and I struggled again to find balance. Game 1 I kept a 7 card hand with 4 lands, 1 vial, 1 predatory and 1 sinew; I never drew another spell, only lands. Game 2 I brought in 2 relic, 2 warping wail, 2 frenetic. I kept a 6 card hand with a breeding pool and godless shrine and creatures; never saw another land.
Round 3 - Rock 1-2. This match was lost on a misplay/mistake by me in game 2. I curved out excellently in game 1 and killed on turn 5. Same side plan as jund the match prior. In game 2, I was well behind with only a mana sliver, diffusion, predatory in play vs a treetop village finks scooze and kalitas. I landed a frenetic and followed up with a sedge and managed to stabilize the board at 1 life. My opponent had 1 out, damnation, he cast it and I started flipping coins, I managed to save all but the diffusion sliver. At this point my opponent is beside himself thinking its unfair that frenetic exists. I assume its safe and swing out the next turn and drop a predatory and galerider. On my opponents next turn he removes both my untapped slivers and activated treetop village to remove my last point of life. I failed to take the man land into account. Game 3 I was stuck on 2 lands the entire game and could not cast half the cards in hand because no gold lands.
Round 4 - Storm 1-2. At this point I'm just playing for pride just hoping to fill time while my buddy is doing well. I got game 1 due to opponent on land screw. Games 2 and 3 were typical storm games where I didnt see enough sideboard help and could not compete. I did get to dismember 2 things in the ice in the 2nd and 3rd games.
Here comes the turn around...
Round 5 - Storm 2-0. Neither game did my opponent cast more than 4 spells, his deck failed him and he very likely didnt have an optimized version of storm. Really didnt have any resistance in this match.
Round 6 - Opponent no show. Free win.
Round 7 - Titan shift 2-0. In game 1 he shocked twice to help me finish a turn 4 kill, I curved out perfectly Galerider - sinew - sedge - kill. Brought in syphon darkheart and warping wail from side. Ga,me 2 I saw both darkhearts and the opponent found 2 valakuts; however I held up coco mana thru turn 4 and a vial on 2 with a sedge in play andf on his turn 5 end step cast coco landing a sedge and blur then vialed in a sinew. I untapped and swung for 19 with him at 17 and no blockers.
Round 8 - jund 2-0. Game 1 curved out perfectly into a turn 5 kill thru some removal. Same board plan as earlier jund match. Game 2 was a good game! Back and forth we traded blows, I eventually landed a frenetic and was able to vial things in to kill his massive board of 3 goyfs and 2 bloodbraids down to a single goyf. It came down to this, he swung in with a goyf while I had tapped out and had lethal on the crack back and he took me to 3. He had but one chance to cast damnation and hope I missed a bunch of flips. He cast the damnation, I cast the warping wail I had in hand.
Round 9 - eldrazi & taxes 2-1. Game 1 was very strange, I dropped a hive on turns 1 and 2 and cast darkheart onto an empty board with his basic plains. Opponent paths the darkheart and when I find a land he scooped, I assume he was on a 1 lander and couldnt deal with me being up 2 lands. I at this point still had no idea what he was doing so I chose not to sideboard. Game 2 his plan became apparent when he dropped a turn 2 leonin arbitor and started ghost quartering and field of ruining my lands. I was still able to knock him to 1 life before succumbing in game 2. Game 3 I chose to again not sideboard as I had nothing for taxes style decks. We ended up in a weird situation where the ground was locked up so I couldnt attack since I didnt have galerider but he had a restoration angel so I was taking 3 turn. He cast a ghostly prison and passed. I had to wait a few turns for a gale rider to appear and when it came I also vialed in a blur which was exactly what I needed as it gave me the mana to pay for 3 attackers allowing me to kill exactly.
So ended up 5-4 after an 0-4 beginning. Honestly I was pretty tilted after round 3 and 4. It wasnt my best moment and I know I didnt handle it well. I will have to endeavor to be better at dealing with variance going forward.
It looks like Slivers is a go! Just gotta figure out an ideal composition.
Diffusion Sliver is probably a rock star against Phoenix and we beat normal creature combat even in the air. Phoenix is Dangerous, but we can have solvable board states against it. I am not sure Damping Sphere does enough though. Warping Wail and Chalice seem like ok answers to it and has benefits elsewhere.
I dont see why Diffusion Sliver is great. It slows them down by 1-2 turn (and you by 1 turn), does nothing against Awoken Horror and Anger of the Gods
Maybe Harmonic Sliver should be played mainboard because Whir seems unwinnable without it. Affinity still a big player and it does something against Tron
It does slow them down a turn, but what else you got without Crystalline?
If they want to cast your spells, they gotta go to the face and that is ok (as long as we have get our life gain slivers in there).
On the whole, the match isn't much of a race. They are going to faster and Thing in the Ice makes it difficult. We need to Tempo them out, which should be the general goal. There isn't much we can do.
Elves is terrible against Izzet Phoenix and Merfolk is only better because island, but also merfolk trickster and counterspells. What can slivers do? We can tempo with Diffusion (forcing them to attack our face), we can have Darkheart and Syphon to help buy time. Telekinetic could also stop a turn of Awoken Horror.
Diffusion allows us to have a board state for us to work around. Them taking a turn and using all or most of their mana also tempo delays Thing and Phoenix. Which allows us perhaps to cast Company or something else. Maybe also bring Frenetic in for Thing flips. We don't need them to come back to hand, but perhaps staying on board might help later. We have to us the tricks available to us. Whether it is smaller tricks, wierd combat tricks, and first strike.
It isn't fool proof, but I don't see betrer solutions. Maybe Surgical Extraction is better against Phoenix/Dredge than Relic (although more expensive).
I triumphed vs izzet phoenix Monday night. In games 2 and 3 I found opening hand chalices and that was enough. Warping Wail is also important as it removes titi and counters anger of the gods. Chalice on 1 hurts their ability to draw cards thoroughly, however they do run abrade.
How I sided: +2 chalice +2 wail +2 syphon +1 darkheart, -1 vial -3 coco -2 blur, -1 sentinel
There is only 1 person in my local meta playing whir and I have not played vs them yet. I have no frame of reference to speak on that match-up as of now. Whir being strong kind of draws me in 2 different directions as I cut the 3rd harmonic side for a 2nd chalice of the void.
Harmonic x 3
Frenetic x 2
Warping Wail x 2
Chalice x 3-4
Telekinetic x 1-2
Syphon x 1-2
Striking x 1-2
What is Damping Sphere for that Chalice can't cover? Tron or Storm? Storm isn't as good as it once was and I am not sure how reasonable Storm hate is in the side. Tron is rough, but I think we can just perhaps Chalice/Telekinetic and rush um. Necrotic and Mutavaults are good in that match up.
Main
20 Lands
4 Galerider
4 Manaweft (Gemhide)
8 Lords
4 Diffusion (i think is better than 3 now)
4 Sedge
2 Blur
2 Necrotic
1-2 Darkheart
1-2 Striking
4 Collected Company
4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember
This is just probably something that I would play at the moment.
As for Grixis Whirl - its basically lantern control with better card selection and less mill.
So Harmonic/Necrotic/Telekinetic are probably the biggest winners. For the matchup, Flying, Mana, Sedge, Blur, Necrotic are the only main deck cards after sideboard that probably matter. Diffusion might matter as well.
Be prepared to for example for them to get Torpor Orb for Harmonic, Pithing Needle for Vial/Mutavault/Necrotic (although it does work all that well, they have to name each and every sliver type for it to truly work), and Ensnaring Bridge. Whirl works as an instant so Warping Wail isn't great. Chalice can be good on Zero, 1, or 3.
They have a faster clock with Thopter Sword Combo, but that can dealt with and we could probably cause a draw with Syphon Sliver, galeride rand lords. They heavily rely on Whirl to get them what they need as they don't have a huge ton of filtering. Its a race, but we tools to defeat them.
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WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Loss was to gw value
Wins vs burn with spectacle cards, br burn, jund, uw control, artifact deck with panharmonicon and semblance anvil, amulet titan, and a combo deck using leonin relic warder, phyrexian metamorph and alter of the brood.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Could you make a post talking about sideboarding? I’m having trouble siding against tron, control and spirits. Thanks!
Tron, bring in spheres, harmonics, and telekinetic. Take out striking, sentinel, blur, 1 coco.
Control, bring in frenetic and Hivelord. Drop striking, 1 coco, sentinel.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Do we get some new/old slivers???
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Epic finish!
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Round 1, 4 color Vannifar (no red), 2-1. Lost game 2 to Vizier/Druid/Ballista combo. Dismembered and Necrotic'd Vannifar every other time.
Round 2, U Tron, 2-1. Turn 5 kill in game 1, he almost didnt let me know what he was on, only played a tron land the turn before death. He got game 2 by frustrating me to death. Game 3 he mulled to oblivion.
Round 3, UR delver w/ pteramander, 1-2. Lost game 1 to too many bolts. Won game 2 with a turn 3 CoCo. Lost game 3 due to super mana flood even thru using all 3 fetches.
Round 4, Esper control (looked a lot like 8 rack at first), 2-1. Lost game 1 to a phyrexian arena and kalitas. Got game 2 with 2 mutavaults. A late coco got me 2 lords and the game in the 3rd.
Round 5, storm, 0-2. I misclicked when choosing to keep or mulligan in game 2, would have had a 6 card hand with 2 lands, a relic, a sphere, and 2 slivers but I accidentally mulled to 5. Feels real bad, could have at least evened up the match.
I failed to see chalice even a single time when I brought it in. Would have been really handy vs that delver build...
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
The loss was all on me, i made too many errors vs dredge.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Someone get on blogatog and ask Rosewater! I'm not on that social media site.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
246 players - 9 rounds of swiss
I would like to preface this by stating that had it not been for my friend who rode with me doing well early on in this event I would have dropped after round 4. However, since he was sitting 3-1 I continued to play and changed my whole day.
Round 1 - Dredge 0-2. In game 1, I ended up mulliganing to 4 cards and forced to keep a 0 land hand even scrying another creature to the bottom. I drew a land on turn 1 but never saw land 2 and died to 16 power on the board on turn 3. Game 2 I brought in 2 Relic, 2 Warping wail and 2 Syphon. This was a bit more of a game but I failed to see any sideboard cards. On turn 3 I had 2 3/3 lords removed by a conflagrate that pretty much ended my chances.
Round 2 - Jund 0-2. I shuffled extremely long before playing this round to try to avoid the land issues on round 1 however it was not meant to be and I struggled again to find balance. Game 1 I kept a 7 card hand with 4 lands, 1 vial, 1 predatory and 1 sinew; I never drew another spell, only lands. Game 2 I brought in 2 relic, 2 warping wail, 2 frenetic. I kept a 6 card hand with a breeding pool and godless shrine and creatures; never saw another land.
Round 3 - Rock 1-2. This match was lost on a misplay/mistake by me in game 2. I curved out excellently in game 1 and killed on turn 5. Same side plan as jund the match prior. In game 2, I was well behind with only a mana sliver, diffusion, predatory in play vs a treetop village finks scooze and kalitas. I landed a frenetic and followed up with a sedge and managed to stabilize the board at 1 life. My opponent had 1 out, damnation, he cast it and I started flipping coins, I managed to save all but the diffusion sliver. At this point my opponent is beside himself thinking its unfair that frenetic exists. I assume its safe and swing out the next turn and drop a predatory and galerider. On my opponents next turn he removes both my untapped slivers and activated treetop village to remove my last point of life. I failed to take the man land into account. Game 3 I was stuck on 2 lands the entire game and could not cast half the cards in hand because no gold lands.
Round 4 - Storm 1-2. At this point I'm just playing for pride just hoping to fill time while my buddy is doing well. I got game 1 due to opponent on land screw. Games 2 and 3 were typical storm games where I didnt see enough sideboard help and could not compete. I did get to dismember 2 things in the ice in the 2nd and 3rd games.
Here comes the turn around...
Round 5 - Storm 2-0. Neither game did my opponent cast more than 4 spells, his deck failed him and he very likely didnt have an optimized version of storm. Really didnt have any resistance in this match.
Round 6 - Opponent no show. Free win.
Round 7 - Titan shift 2-0. In game 1 he shocked twice to help me finish a turn 4 kill, I curved out perfectly Galerider - sinew - sedge - kill. Brought in syphon darkheart and warping wail from side. Ga,me 2 I saw both darkhearts and the opponent found 2 valakuts; however I held up coco mana thru turn 4 and a vial on 2 with a sedge in play andf on his turn 5 end step cast coco landing a sedge and blur then vialed in a sinew. I untapped and swung for 19 with him at 17 and no blockers.
Round 8 - jund 2-0. Game 1 curved out perfectly into a turn 5 kill thru some removal. Same board plan as earlier jund match. Game 2 was a good game! Back and forth we traded blows, I eventually landed a frenetic and was able to vial things in to kill his massive board of 3 goyfs and 2 bloodbraids down to a single goyf. It came down to this, he swung in with a goyf while I had tapped out and had lethal on the crack back and he took me to 3. He had but one chance to cast damnation and hope I missed a bunch of flips. He cast the damnation, I cast the warping wail I had in hand.
Round 9 - eldrazi & taxes 2-1. Game 1 was very strange, I dropped a hive on turns 1 and 2 and cast darkheart onto an empty board with his basic plains. Opponent paths the darkheart and when I find a land he scooped, I assume he was on a 1 lander and couldnt deal with me being up 2 lands. I at this point still had no idea what he was doing so I chose not to sideboard. Game 2 his plan became apparent when he dropped a turn 2 leonin arbitor and started ghost quartering and field of ruining my lands. I was still able to knock him to 1 life before succumbing in game 2. Game 3 I chose to again not sideboard as I had nothing for taxes style decks. We ended up in a weird situation where the ground was locked up so I couldnt attack since I didnt have galerider but he had a restoration angel so I was taking 3 turn. He cast a ghostly prison and passed. I had to wait a few turns for a gale rider to appear and when it came I also vialed in a blur which was exactly what I needed as it gave me the mana to pay for 3 attackers allowing me to kill exactly.
So ended up 5-4 after an 0-4 beginning. Honestly I was pretty tilted after round 3 and 4. It wasnt my best moment and I know I didnt handle it well. I will have to endeavor to be better at dealing with variance going forward.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChannelFireball/status/1107320741366767616/photo/2?fbclid=IwAR1q3dj6KPYb3iG018N1av3EpqFq02VZ0dQU1lch80iyJ7rrr7L3tj19Row
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
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WUBRGCoco Slivers
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WUBRGAll in Slivers
Diffusion Sliver is probably a rock star against Phoenix and we beat normal creature combat even in the air. Phoenix is Dangerous, but we can have solvable board states against it. I am not sure Damping Sphere does enough though. Warping Wail and Chalice seem like ok answers to it and has benefits elsewhere.
Maybe Harmonic Sliver should be played mainboard because Whir seems unwinnable without it. Affinity still a big player and it does something against Tron
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
H Y P E
If they want to cast your spells, they gotta go to the face and that is ok (as long as we have get our life gain slivers in there).
On the whole, the match isn't much of a race. They are going to faster and Thing in the Ice makes it difficult. We need to Tempo them out, which should be the general goal. There isn't much we can do.
Elves is terrible against Izzet Phoenix and Merfolk is only better because island, but also merfolk trickster and counterspells. What can slivers do? We can tempo with Diffusion (forcing them to attack our face), we can have Darkheart and Syphon to help buy time. Telekinetic could also stop a turn of Awoken Horror.
Diffusion allows us to have a board state for us to work around. Them taking a turn and using all or most of their mana also tempo delays Thing and Phoenix. Which allows us perhaps to cast Company or something else. Maybe also bring Frenetic in for Thing flips. We don't need them to come back to hand, but perhaps staying on board might help later. We have to us the tricks available to us. Whether it is smaller tricks, wierd combat tricks, and first strike.
It isn't fool proof, but I don't see betrer solutions. Maybe Surgical Extraction is better against Phoenix/Dredge than Relic (although more expensive).
How I sided: +2 chalice +2 wail +2 syphon +1 darkheart, -1 vial -3 coco -2 blur, -1 sentinel
There is only 1 person in my local meta playing whir and I have not played vs them yet. I have no frame of reference to speak on that match-up as of now. Whir being strong kind of draws me in 2 different directions as I cut the 3rd harmonic side for a 2nd chalice of the void.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Harmonic x 3
Frenetic x 2
Warping Wail x 2
Chalice x 3-4
Telekinetic x 1-2
Syphon x 1-2
Striking x 1-2
What is Damping Sphere for that Chalice can't cover? Tron or Storm? Storm isn't as good as it once was and I am not sure how reasonable Storm hate is in the side. Tron is rough, but I think we can just perhaps Chalice/Telekinetic and rush um. Necrotic and Mutavaults are good in that match up.
Main
20 Lands
4 Galerider
4 Manaweft (Gemhide)
8 Lords
4 Diffusion (i think is better than 3 now)
4 Sedge
2 Blur
2 Necrotic
1-2 Darkheart
1-2 Striking
4 Collected Company
4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember
This is just probably something that I would play at the moment.
As for Grixis Whirl - its basically lantern control with better card selection and less mill.
So Harmonic/Necrotic/Telekinetic are probably the biggest winners. For the matchup, Flying, Mana, Sedge, Blur, Necrotic are the only main deck cards after sideboard that probably matter. Diffusion might matter as well.
Be prepared to for example for them to get Torpor Orb for Harmonic, Pithing Needle for Vial/Mutavault/Necrotic (although it does work all that well, they have to name each and every sliver type for it to truly work), and Ensnaring Bridge. Whirl works as an instant so Warping Wail isn't great. Chalice can be good on Zero, 1, or 3.
They have a faster clock with Thopter Sword Combo, but that can dealt with and we could probably cause a draw with Syphon Sliver, galeride rand lords. They heavily rely on Whirl to get them what they need as they don't have a huge ton of filtering. Its a race, but we tools to defeat them.