I think I've finalized my list for the RPTQ next weekend. The link below is updated. I am going back to having Sentinel main, moving the Darkheart to side. I've removed both Relic's from side; thinking I can beat dredge on the battlefield with Sedge and Diffusion. I've brought back the Telekinetic into the side to help tron match ups.
I really like the way the deck runs with Sentinel in the deck, sure its only a 1 of but once in play it allows the use of both main phases to cast more creatures and allow combat tricks with CoCo on opponents turns without losing the attack the turn before. With Telekinetic in the 75 its best to be able to attack without tapping as well.
RPTQ Independence MO 12/9/18
Finished 2-4. 40th place.
62 players, 6 rounds of swiss.
Round 1 - izzet Phoenix 2-1. I originally thought this was jeskai since he started with steam vents untapped. My turn 2 diffusion kept him from doing anything to my board in game 1. Game 2 he found a turn 3 anger of the gods and also flipped a thing in the ice. Game 3 I warping wailed a thing in turn 3 and dismembered a drake and put 3 lords out quickly to get out of anger range.
Round 2 - dredge 1-2. Game 1 I faltered it the gate and couldn't put much pressure up. Game 2 got to counter a conflagrate with diffusion sliver and got a syphon sliver to gain up to 35 life. Game 3, misplayed by not blocking one time and ended up getting conflagrated for 9 the turn before I could drop my second coco.
Round 3 - jeskai control 1-2. Game 1, he 1 for 1'd me to death with bolt, bolt, helix, path, bolt, snap, bolt... too much removal. Game 2 I canned it strong fast with 2 diffusion slivers he couldn't kill anything. Game 3 kept an unfortunate 6 card hand, the cards simply never came together.
Round 4 - hardened scales 0-2. Game 1 was close but I kept drawing lands and eventually got ballista'd. Game 2 was unfortunate, mulled to 5 to find 2 lands and never drew another land but did draw 2 vials late.
Round 5 - mardu burn 2-0. This was a bad version of burn with bump in the night. I had vials both games and worked around eidolon triggers both games. I never took a single eidolon trigger thanks to vial.
Round 6 - infect 0-2. Neither game did I see the right stuff. Game 1 I was slow out the gate and didn't see dismember. Game 2 i found warping wail and dismember but he found spellskite and was able to get around both my attempts to kill things.
Biggest disappointment: striking sliver, I only saw it twice and neither time was it relevant.
Biggest surprise: diffusion sliver, this card keeps proving over and over that it's one of the best of not the absolute best cards in the deck.
Going forward: I think we're in a tough spot meta wise, the meta is increasingly hostile to creature decks at the moment and we don't have many good cheap answers. I feel we are at a point where we simply must have new slivers in the format to compete at any higher levels.
I feel more draws are required to fix the consistency issues with the deck, beyond playing dormant sliver I dont see many ways to get more draws in the deck so I plan to test out a Canyon Slough and a Fetid Pools in place of the Watery Grave and Blood Crypt in my list and run an Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in place of another land to be determined. This is simply for testing purposes and likely will not stick as permanent change but who knows maybe its exactly what we need.
Been lurking in the thread for a while, and since I decided to get back in to magic, yo inspired me to do slivers.
So concering your last post about draw for more consistency.
So, ive been spending the better part of this evening looking for cards that might solve some of the problems with consistency, and I must say, there are not many things out there.
Manamorphose Seems pretty cool, it allows a "free" draw at the cost of a cardslot in your deck.
Very nice, but im not sure its the solution we need. Let me know your thoughts
Yeah I see the problem, but if we are comming to the point when the lack of draw is holding us back, perhaps its time to check the mana base, and put in a few more fetch lands?
Also, I think Ekienhols list had a pretty good mana base, and he also runs collected company wich require green mana already.
This is why I thoght Manamorphose might be worth a try. It doesnt strain the mana further, but allows for more draw. There are also a few fetch lands already in there.
What to cut is also a problem
Then again, I have not played magic for quite some time, and I will be playing my deck as soon as the cards ive bought arrives
so lets say I have a Sliver Hive or Cavern of Souls in play, technically they produce all colors of mana?
The only real drawback here is that if yhis is your only land it doesnt produce anything. But this could be a solution no?
which is the most consistent mana base? Is urborg good? The 3 shocks must produce black mana? Saw versions using breeding pool. I’m not sure which fetch i’m gonna use, is ok to use bloodstained mire? Verdants are expensive right now
Glimpse of Nature is banned in modern. I would absolutely love for it to be legal, I would at least attempt to run it.
By the way guys the cycle lands did ok, they were not great. I did run into a couple instances where I really needed a land untapped but had one of those lands. I did get a few draws out of them though. I am going forward without them in the list as they slowed things down too much.
I heard an exciting rumor the other day though, slivers in the near future (sometime by 2022).
Card advantage is nice to have but it wont solve deck's problem that is winrate
Because deck has other major weaknesses
Inconsistency - many mulligans and sometimes blank topdecks
Lack of speed - no t3 wins, rare t4 wins
No disruption - its not a problem per se, but when our deck is slow, thats a big problem
Painful manabase
You have to be fast or have disruption, without both card advantage wont make winrate positive
Overall game plan is pretty naive: slowly amass creatures to make them strong while modern specializes at creature destruction and fast kills
Slivers has defensive interaction and little if any offensive interaction. Diffusion Sliver, Sedge Sliver, and Frenetic Sliver are great defensive interaction abilities. We blank or tax a lot of removal. Galerider Sliver, Striking Sliver, Darkheart Sliver, and Syphoning Sliver also do amazing work on the ground vs. other aggro decks.
We completely fall down on Combo decks and Creature combo decks. However, those are a large part of the meta or at least a significant part and spells trouble for us. If the meta was all creature aggro and interactive decks, we would be fine and a decent option. Unlike Twin which would be could game our sideboards for, its hard to game our sideboards for all the potential match ups just like a lot of decks.
We can beat them if they stumble, but we can stumble and be less consistent as well and forced to draw sideboard removal spells.
After nearly a month off, it was back to FNM for me last night.
12 players, 4 rounds
Round 1 - UB Mill 2-1. Mesmeric Orb early on made a pretty decent clock for my opponent, and a bridge a bit later made it more difficult however at the exact best time a top decked Necrotic Sliver destroyed the Bridge and allowed me to swing lethal. Game 2, I was not so fortunate, A Crypt Incursion sent the opponent life total from 4 to 49 with all 4 Mesmeric orbs in play. Game 3, plenty of gas on this one not even a Crypt Incursion for 39 followed up by another for 9 could keep me from my victory.
Round 2 - Budget G Eldrazi Tron 2-0. Very new player who hadn't even gotten down the basics of playing quite yet, but managed to beat Goblins in round 1. I spent most of the match helping him get thru the phases of the game and teaching some along the way. Nice when a turn 3 Necrotic gets there and gets a land before Tron is completed.
Round 3 - Humans 2-0. Game 1 my opponent misses a vial trigger on turn 2 (his first vial trigger) and it literally cost him the game as he was a turn behind from then on in the game. Game 2, opponent started strong out the gate with T1 vial, T2 Thalia, T3 Mantis and activate vial for an Image of Mantis and swinging for 8; however, that was not good enough. My T3 I landed 2 lords along side manaweft, T4 landed necrotic and Blur and Striking and went to town vindicating Mantis Riders. I stabilized at 3 life and turned it around completely.
Round 4 - ID
Pretty good night for the first time back in nearly a month 3-0-1 and a share of 1st.
Was able to finish the deck IRL and played with it last friday, a tournament with around 18 people but because of the pre release the prize were splitted on top 8 and we played only 5 rounds. The deck felt pretty solid but it demands a lot of practice. I went 3-2.
Burn 1-2: Game 3 I was able to play darkheart sliver but he putted into play that dinosaur that don’t allow players to gain life. That won him the game.
Jund with white splash 2-0: Pretty easy both games. Sedge sliver was the best card, it’s very good against those removals.
Grixis ds 1-2: I always forget to care more about the opponent's life when he is playing ds, and it costs me the game. On game 3 I was with 6 slivers and the flying one into play and his ds was 5/5, I attacked with 3 or 4 slivers and his ds got 10/10. On his turn he used temur battlerange and closed the game. If I had waited to attack with all my slivers my next turn I'd have won.
UW spirits 2-1: Won pretty quickly the g1, g2 made a mistake and lost and g3 he wasn't able to find the second land.
UW control 2-1: The first game I won on turn 4, game 2 he used wrath and I wasn't able to win anymore and game 3 was a very rough game. I was able to survive against 3 wraths because of frenetic sliver, it is the best card in this matchup. Sliver hive was really good too, helped me to put pressure.
Nice report! Definitely have to get a lot of reps in with the deck until you feel comfortable.
Today is B&R announcement day!
Who else is excited for the lack of KCI decks in their upcoming events? I only ever played against it 3 times and I lost all 3 times, it was a very bad match-up for us and I am glad to see it go. I am looking forward to seeing what emerges after this banning.
By the way guys the cycle lands did ok, they were not great. I did run into a couple instances where I really needed a land untapped but had one of those lands. I did get a few draws out of them though. I am going forward without them in the list as they slowed things down too much.
I think humans are going to get more popular now with lavina, that card is too powerfull, it’s playing vintage!
Why do we use blur slivers instead others slivers? It’s advantage doesn’t seem powerfull, unless we have manaweft sliver into play. Maybe syphon can be better than it, or some removal..
I’ve been thinking about liquimetal coating + harmonic sliver after sideboard post sideboard. Any thoughts? It’s not a good combo but might get some decks...
I think humans are going to get more popular now with lavina, that card is too powerfull, it’s playing vintage!
Why do we use blur slivers instead others slivers? It’s advantage doesn’t seem powerfull, unless we have manaweft sliver into play. Maybe syphon can be better than it, or some removal..
I’ve been thinking about liquimetal coating + harmonic sliver after sideboard post sideboard. Any thoughts? It’s not a good combo but might get some decks...
I would consider Splinter if I was to go into Liquidmetal Harmonic, but even then, not sure if you could get many decks like that. Test it if feel like it, but I guess the Liquidmetal will feel lacking and will make you want to run something like Mycosynth Lattice and maybe at this point, although fun, it could be win more.
Beck is too color mana intensive. My build only runs 1 dedicated blue source other than having a mana sliver out. I've learned you cannot ever count on your manaweft/gemhide making it to the next turn when you need it to most.
The New Perspectives idea seems like a kitchen table strategy. New perspectives is just too high costed a card to run in competitive modern. Not to mention the only cards we'd have to cycle are Homing (or other slivers if homing is in play) and cycle lands.
Blur sliver is run main to add explosiveness, nothing better than a turn 3 coco into Blur and a lord and a swing for 5 out of nowhere. Many have opted to try other haste slivers in that spot as well like Firewake Sliver however I feel the most optimized modern sliver for haste is Blur.
Liquidmetal Coating, I've seen this card discussed ad nauseum throughout this thread over years and it always boils down to the same facts. You cant guarantee you'll have both the coating and harmonic at the same time to justify running both and its too easy for both pieces to just clunk up your hand. This too seems like kitchen table magic to me. If you want removal in your modern slivers list, right now the best option is Dismember and Necrotic Sliver.
After last night I am giving some serious consideration to runningChalice of the void again. Played a competitive modern league last night and for the first time ever went 0-10, 0-5. I played mono red phoenix/burn 4 times in the 5 match event. With the new cards from Ravnica Allegiance (skewer the critics and light up the stage) they simply has answers to everything. Certainly I didnt draw well and got mana hosed several times but never have I been held without a single game win before.
I guess it will do well if they have slimmed down on their 2 mana spells. It can also be too slow at times I have found if we can't get a board presence. It is possible we need more life gain in this format. Warping Wail can also counter a sorcery burn spell. In essence, we are the control deck and we have to think of control deck strategies.
I am not sure what is the appropriate strategy against Phoenix. I think striking sliver, galerider sliver, lifegain, diffusion and sedge are going to be important here.
I really like the way the deck runs with Sentinel in the deck, sure its only a 1 of but once in play it allows the use of both main phases to cast more creatures and allow combat tricks with CoCo on opponents turns without losing the attack the turn before. With Telekinetic in the 75 its best to be able to attack without tapping as well.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Finished 2-4. 40th place.
62 players, 6 rounds of swiss.
Round 1 - izzet Phoenix 2-1. I originally thought this was jeskai since he started with steam vents untapped. My turn 2 diffusion kept him from doing anything to my board in game 1. Game 2 he found a turn 3 anger of the gods and also flipped a thing in the ice. Game 3 I warping wailed a thing in turn 3 and dismembered a drake and put 3 lords out quickly to get out of anger range.
Round 2 - dredge 1-2. Game 1 I faltered it the gate and couldn't put much pressure up. Game 2 got to counter a conflagrate with diffusion sliver and got a syphon sliver to gain up to 35 life. Game 3, misplayed by not blocking one time and ended up getting conflagrated for 9 the turn before I could drop my second coco.
Round 3 - jeskai control 1-2. Game 1, he 1 for 1'd me to death with bolt, bolt, helix, path, bolt, snap, bolt... too much removal. Game 2 I canned it strong fast with 2 diffusion slivers he couldn't kill anything. Game 3 kept an unfortunate 6 card hand, the cards simply never came together.
Round 4 - hardened scales 0-2. Game 1 was close but I kept drawing lands and eventually got ballista'd. Game 2 was unfortunate, mulled to 5 to find 2 lands and never drew another land but did draw 2 vials late.
Round 5 - mardu burn 2-0. This was a bad version of burn with bump in the night. I had vials both games and worked around eidolon triggers both games. I never took a single eidolon trigger thanks to vial.
Round 6 - infect 0-2. Neither game did I see the right stuff. Game 1 I was slow out the gate and didn't see dismember. Game 2 i found warping wail and dismember but he found spellskite and was able to get around both my attempts to kill things.
Biggest disappointment: striking sliver, I only saw it twice and neither time was it relevant.
Biggest surprise: diffusion sliver, this card keeps proving over and over that it's one of the best of not the absolute best cards in the deck.
Going forward: I think we're in a tough spot meta wise, the meta is increasingly hostile to creature decks at the moment and we don't have many good cheap answers. I feel we are at a point where we simply must have new slivers in the format to compete at any higher levels.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Been lurking in the thread for a while, and since I decided to get back in to magic, yo inspired me to do slivers.
So concering your last post about draw for more consistency.
How about Kindred Discovery?
EDIT: Nevermind, its not legal : /
Manamorphose Seems pretty cool, it allows a "free" draw at the cost of a cardslot in your deck.
Very nice, but im not sure its the solution we need. Let me know your thoughts
Ancestral Vision
Maybe?
Jace, the Mind Sculptor Could work?
Glimpse of Nature seems good in a creature heavy deck
I will continiue to look through and test stuff, but this is the only thing ive found so far that hasnt been discussed.
Also, I think Ekienhols list had a pretty good mana base, and he also runs collected company wich require green mana already.
This is why I thoght Manamorphose might be worth a try. It doesnt strain the mana further, but allows for more draw. There are also a few fetch lands already in there.
What to cut is also a problem
Then again, I have not played magic for quite some time, and I will be playing my deck as soon as the cards ive bought arrives
I'd play Horizon Canopy + Glimpse of Nature for draws.
so lets say I have a Sliver Hive or Cavern of Souls in play, technically they produce all colors of mana?
The only real drawback here is that if yhis is your only land it doesnt produce anything. But this could be a solution no?
@ekienhol
By the way guys the cycle lands did ok, they were not great. I did run into a couple instances where I really needed a land untapped but had one of those lands. I did get a few draws out of them though. I am going forward without them in the list as they slowed things down too much.
I heard an exciting rumor the other day though, slivers in the near future (sometime by 2022).
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Because deck has other major weaknesses
Inconsistency - many mulligans and sometimes blank topdecks
Lack of speed - no t3 wins, rare t4 wins
No disruption - its not a problem per se, but when our deck is slow, thats a big problem
Painful manabase
You have to be fast or have disruption, without both card advantage wont make winrate positive
Overall game plan is pretty naive: slowly amass creatures to make them strong while modern specializes at creature destruction and fast kills
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
We completely fall down on Combo decks and Creature combo decks. However, those are a large part of the meta or at least a significant part and spells trouble for us. If the meta was all creature aggro and interactive decks, we would be fine and a decent option. Unlike Twin which would be could game our sideboards for, its hard to game our sideboards for all the potential match ups just like a lot of decks.
We can beat them if they stumble, but we can stumble and be less consistent as well and forced to draw sideboard removal spells.
12 players, 4 rounds
Round 1 - UB Mill 2-1. Mesmeric Orb early on made a pretty decent clock for my opponent, and a bridge a bit later made it more difficult however at the exact best time a top decked Necrotic Sliver destroyed the Bridge and allowed me to swing lethal. Game 2, I was not so fortunate, A Crypt Incursion sent the opponent life total from 4 to 49 with all 4 Mesmeric orbs in play. Game 3, plenty of gas on this one not even a Crypt Incursion for 39 followed up by another for 9 could keep me from my victory.
Round 2 - Budget G Eldrazi Tron 2-0. Very new player who hadn't even gotten down the basics of playing quite yet, but managed to beat Goblins in round 1. I spent most of the match helping him get thru the phases of the game and teaching some along the way. Nice when a turn 3 Necrotic gets there and gets a land before Tron is completed.
Round 3 - Humans 2-0. Game 1 my opponent misses a vial trigger on turn 2 (his first vial trigger) and it literally cost him the game as he was a turn behind from then on in the game. Game 2, opponent started strong out the gate with T1 vial, T2 Thalia, T3 Mantis and activate vial for an Image of Mantis and swinging for 8; however, that was not good enough. My T3 I landed 2 lords along side manaweft, T4 landed necrotic and Blur and Striking and went to town vindicating Mantis Riders. I stabilized at 3 life and turned it around completely.
Round 4 - ID
Pretty good night for the first time back in nearly a month 3-0-1 and a share of 1st.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Burn 1-2: Game 3 I was able to play darkheart sliver but he putted into play that dinosaur that don’t allow players to gain life. That won him the game.
Jund with white splash 2-0: Pretty easy both games. Sedge sliver was the best card, it’s very good against those removals.
Grixis ds 1-2: I always forget to care more about the opponent's life when he is playing ds, and it costs me the game. On game 3 I was with 6 slivers and the flying one into play and his ds was 5/5, I attacked with 3 or 4 slivers and his ds got 10/10. On his turn he used temur battlerange and closed the game. If I had waited to attack with all my slivers my next turn I'd have won.
UW spirits 2-1: Won pretty quickly the g1, g2 made a mistake and lost and g3 he wasn't able to find the second land.
UW control 2-1: The first game I won on turn 4, game 2 he used wrath and I wasn't able to win anymore and game 3 was a very rough game. I was able to survive against 3 wraths because of frenetic sliver, it is the best card in this matchup. Sliver hive was really good too, helped me to put pressure.
I ran the ekienhol's list.
Today is B&R announcement day!
Who else is excited for the lack of KCI decks in their upcoming events? I only ever played against it 3 times and I lost all 3 times, it was a very bad match-up for us and I am glad to see it go. I am looking forward to seeing what emerges after this banning.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
A bit late but, there is Beck
I like the cycling mechanic. I wonder if New Perspectives and Homing Sliver could be part of a combo...
Why do we use blur slivers instead others slivers? It’s advantage doesn’t seem powerfull, unless we have manaweft sliver into play. Maybe syphon can be better than it, or some removal..
I’ve been thinking about liquimetal coating + harmonic sliver after sideboard post sideboard. Any thoughts? It’s not a good combo but might get some decks...
I would consider Splinter if I was to go into Liquidmetal Harmonic, but even then, not sure if you could get many decks like that. Test it if feel like it, but I guess the Liquidmetal will feel lacking and will make you want to run something like Mycosynth Lattice and maybe at this point, although fun, it could be win more.
The New Perspectives idea seems like a kitchen table strategy. New perspectives is just too high costed a card to run in competitive modern. Not to mention the only cards we'd have to cycle are Homing (or other slivers if homing is in play) and cycle lands.
Blur sliver is run main to add explosiveness, nothing better than a turn 3 coco into Blur and a lord and a swing for 5 out of nowhere. Many have opted to try other haste slivers in that spot as well like Firewake Sliver however I feel the most optimized modern sliver for haste is Blur.
Liquidmetal Coating, I've seen this card discussed ad nauseum throughout this thread over years and it always boils down to the same facts. You cant guarantee you'll have both the coating and harmonic at the same time to justify running both and its too easy for both pieces to just clunk up your hand. This too seems like kitchen table magic to me. If you want removal in your modern slivers list, right now the best option is Dismember and Necrotic Sliver.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
I am not sure what is the appropriate strategy against Phoenix. I think striking sliver, galerider sliver, lifegain, diffusion and sedge are going to be important here.