If you look at the lists, they are two very different decks. Fast slivers is an agro deck and coco slivers is a midrange deck. Playing one over the other is not a reflection of the deck or people's skill. People play what decks that represent their play style. Fast slivers needs cards that accelerate it. Coco slivers needs better interaction. Coco slivers is competitive, but hopefully dominaria will give us the tools we need to be more mainstream.
4-1 at FNM 5th/30
Round 1 vs goblins 2-0 1) My opponent kept a bad hand and allowed me to stabilize.
SB) + 1 syphon, 1 darkheart ; - 2 necrotic
2) The opponent had a fast start, but was afraid to attack when I got a couple lords. I coco'd for syphon and a lord. That ended the game.
O) I really like syphon is creature match ups.
Round 2 vs burn 2-0 1) I kept a hand full of lords. He only played eidolon, searing blaze, and blot. I just over ran him.
SB) + 3 chalice, 1 darkheart, 1 syphon ; - 3 diffusion, 2 necrotic
2) He got me to 7, then I coco'd for syphon and another creature. I gained a bunch of life and put him on a 1 turn clock.
O) I'm still unsure on chalice on this match up. Darkheart and syphon are really good answers through.
Round 3 vs Tron 2-0 1) I had a hand full of lords and he didn't have turn 4 tron.
SB) + 2 frenetic, 1 telekinetic ; - 3 diffusion
2) He pyro'd my board, but was stuck on 2 lands. I got both frenetics and 2 lords. He had no outs at that point.
O) I don't think we have any reasonable interaction, so putting them on a clock is best. Frenetic is really good against their answers.
Round 4 vs Elves 1-2 1) I out raced him with lords.
SB) + 1 syphon, 3 chalice ; - 3 diffusion, 1 darkheart
2) He overran me with ezuri. I got chalice on 1, but it didn't make that much of a difference
3) He had a small board, but got a ezuri. I couldn't get bigger that him.
O) I always viewed this a combo deck, but it plays like an agro deck. The plan is to race them and be able to block.
Round 5 vs Affinity 2-1 1) He mulled to 5 and I was able to race him with sentinel and lords.
SB) + 1 syphon, 3 chalice, 3 harmonic ; - 3 diffusion, 1 darkheart, 1 mana, 1 blur, 1 sedge
2) I had a slow hand and he puked his hand onto the board.
3) He had a slow start and I was able to coco to syphon and a lord. I was able to out race him from there.
O) Galerider is really needed to block profitably. Chalice should only be in on the play. This match up is super draw dependent.
I like the idea of adding leeching to the SB in place of telekinetic. This is to add an extra lord and help race the opponent. The plan against combo deck is to force them to have the combo turn 4. Also if we gain life, the non-infinite combos have to have the perfect hand. This still means we still lose to counter coco, if they draw it.
I had a good FNM as well.
3-1 (22 players, capped at 4 rounds for time) 5th place.
Round 1, 2-1 vs Goblins. Game 1. I flooded out in lands and didnt draw enough threats. Sideboard, -2 Necrotic -1 Dismember +2 Syphon +1 Homing. My opponent flooded out in both games 2 and 3. I was assuming he was heavy on lands early and was allowing his Warren Instigator to hit me and taking out everything else in order to win combats. Eventually the flood kept him off threats and the sliver army got there. Never did see the Syphons or Homing but the main Darkhearts did show up.
Round 2, 1-2 vs Titan Shift. Game 1 the flood was on again for me... It ended quickly once he found a Primeval Titan. Sideboard, -2 Dismember +2 warping wail (I sided more, just cant remember what else) Game 2 we both mulligan to 5 and my hand was better than his and ended quickly in my favor. Game 3 I made an error in keeping my 7. It looked manageable but ended up being my downfall, I didnt have a 5 color land and had 2 Sinews and eventually drew a 3rd and was unable to cast. I did slow him dow with the Wail on a farseek but two turns later Primeval Titan showed up.
Round 3, 2-1 Jeskai geist. Game 1 was little contest, I turn 2 dropped Diffusion off a Cavern and it made me much harder to deal with and I got there with little opposition. Sided in Hivelord Frenetics Homing and Wails taking out Necrotics, Darkhearts and Dsimembers. Game 2 I didnt see the Cavern and lost a Diffusion to a counter spell early, and eventually lost a pretty good board to a Wrath effect and was unable to recover. Game 3 I saw the Hivelord and hard cast him off 2 caverns so super uncounterable but 3 turns later he was pathed for 3 mana. It all came down to Sliver hive, I ended up with 7 tokens on board and kept getting thru his Cryptic commands by having blur out and making a token after he tapped down the team and activating mutavaults.
Round 4, 2-1 mardu nahiri. game 1 I had to keep a suboptiomal hand and ended up eating an emrakul hit and surviving for 2 more turns. Sideboard, took out dismembers and darkhearts to bring in wails homing and telekinetic. Game 2 I landed a turn 3 coco and dropped a blur off of it and went to town on his face. Game 3 was a bit closer but I still managed to get there, finally called a flip correct with frenetic too.
I was simply dreadful at calling coins all night, 2 correct out of 8 attempts. We really need a better option than Frenetic, hopefully we get it in Dominaria come April.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The mana base is used in the fast slivers build. It's ok, but it doesn't allow us to use the powerful sedge sliver. The more midrange style coco build needs the fetches and shocks.
Humans is built to stop combo, small creature, and tempo decks. Slivers is built to stop aggro, midrange, and control. Slivers is in a good spot because combo is sort of under control. The non-interactive decks are really hard to deal with. Those are the decks humans can complete stop because of Kitesail Freebooter and Meddling Mage. As the meta shifts back to more "fair" decks, slivers will get better. It's an odd deck to play and will still be fringe until more slivers are printed. The good news is the domineria is rumored to have between 20-50 sliver cards. Hopefully, two or more of the cards will be modern playable.
The dominera rumors are coming from the complaints that slivers were undraftable in m14 and m15. The fact that magic is designed around draft force wizards to print a few or a lot. Dominera has slivers and they are a key part of it's story. Therefore, dominera is going to have a fair amount of slivers.
I agree with Neoviper91. When you really break it down the 5 color human list that won is basically a stripped down version of previous versions of humans in the fact that it pulled out CoCos and ran vials only, much like fast slivers is to traditional slivers. Ancient Ziggurat makes no sense in a CoCo or Sedge build as it produces neither green nor black for those purposes, however it works great in fast slivers where the only thing it cant produce mana for is vial.
On a side note, hey Timba, how do you deal with early blood moons with your fast sliver list? I've been struggling with it when I play that list.
I am really excited for Dominaria in April, I really think we'll get some playable pieces to help take this deck to tier 1-2. Hopefully Wizards will take the criticism from the core set slivers and make them a more playable archetype in the draft format and maybe even standard.
Upcoming fun... Preregistered yesterday for Grand Prix Oklahoma City in December. The hive will be represented.
I like nameless inversion because it can be casted off sliver hive and tutored with homing sliver. I think it's not good enough in this meta. Fatal push is probably better, but is harder to cast. The only things you hit of relevance are counter company combo pieces, but warping wail and dismember do this better right now.
I like the idea of leeching sliver being your 13th lord. This can be useful, but remember the trigger dose not gain you life with syphon sliver. I'm unsure on cutting to only 3 harmonics with the rise in affinity.
I have no clue why dusk to dawn is in there. It's uncastable without a mana sliver. Also, dusk will probably board wipe us. It seems really bad. If you want board wipe, Settle the Wreckage is probably really good for us. You can swing with almost everything and allow a big crack back. This would surprise board wipe them. I haven't played it, but it's really popular in standard.
Also at the 36 min mark, bowman lets his 4/4 darkheart die to searing blaze.
On a side note, hey Timba, how do you deal with early blood moons with your fast sliver list? I've been struggling with it when I play that list.
Blood Moon is hate card for this list, very often you cant cast anything and die. If I anticipate Bmoon I dont side out red slivers (Striking, Automaton, Blur, Spined) and cast first those that will be uncastable (so Sinew before Predatory etc). Sometimes my board presense is good enough to win before opponent stabilizes or I topdeck needed Slivers to win.
About Adam Bowman's sideboard
I think Nameless inversion (and Fatal Push which needs B too) is worse than Dismember and it cant be played on your sliver to pump because it will lose types and die
dusk // dawn imo is more like an Emrakul here, you accidentally show it to your opponent to make him think you are not on mass creatures deck). If all your creatures dead, you dont have mana to resurrect them
out of curiosity, how do you guys deal with dredge? and other decks that might play with the graveyard?
Usually, trying to race them. I have two relic of progenitus in my board that helps a lot. Against graveyard combo, you can only pray to hit one piece of hate and being faster than them.
Apart from that, I would like to share a experience that I recently have. I have always had a love-hate relationship with Diffusion Sliver. When its good, its very good. When its irrelevant, its TERRIBLE. A 1/1 for 2 that doesn't do anything was something that hurted me a lot.
I moved them to the sideboard. Yep. And I replaced them with Leeching sliver.
After a few rounds, I have found the change worthy.
Diffusion Sliver is not as good as we can believe, for the same reason Kopala is not replacing Kira in merfolks. Paying two more mana is painful in many situations, but Modern is a format that plays many lands and can overcome that disadvantage quickly. Also, being Diffusion out of curve is something that pushes our tempo back, making it awful at race. In slow, interactive matchups, difussion is a very good card. But in the rest, it's just terrible. Diffusion only makes a difference when the rival deck is full of 1x1 removal (aka control and midrange). Not even a playset of path to exiles justifyes the inclusion of a very mediocre body.
Leeching Sliver is a hell of a card. Don't think in it as a bad lord: it's a completely different creature. Unlike Diffusion, Leeching sliver impacts the board immediately. I have found it useful against almost every pairing: against aggro, it help us race. Against control, it gives the opponent another important target. Against locked battlefields, the ability of throwing damage skipping the block phase is invaluable. Against interactive matchups, its boarded out in favor of diffusion or more resistant slivers.
Thanks for the replies on Metallic Mimic up above. You all are the experts.
With that said, I see some worry about Blood Moon. MM as a +2 in the side could be a tiny hedge against it as it would be castable. BM almost looks like a hard lock versus the deck (either version). Again thanks for the responses.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I saw someone ask this a few pages down, but doesn't seem to fully be answered. How do we feel about Unclaimed Territory? 12 free lands that make any color? I understand if we do add them in we sacrifice a lot of fetches. 12 sliver lands + 4 muta (3 for some) leaves us with 16 lands. meaning we have 4 lands to spare. What would be worth it to fill in these?
Personally, I actually run 19 lands (pre unclaimed territory) with a spare gemhide sliver, ontop of the 4 manaweft
Unclaimed Territory turns into the Non-Sedge Sliver version. It is called Fast Slivers and runs a number of 1-2 drop slivers to aggro out the enemy. There are examples above and Timba is the resident expert on Fast Slivers.
I played a couple rounds of modern this weekend. I went to the Columbus regional and met paul conlin. He was supporting a nice completely foil slivers deck. I did ok, but made a lot of mistakes and could have done better. I really like one mainboard homing, so far. Most people don't believe you that slivercycling is a thing when you do it. It can win the game when drawn at the right time.
FNM 2-2
Round 1) 1-2 titanshift
1- aggroed him out and he drew nothing
2- comboed off on turn 4
3- slow start coco, then he angered
Sb- -3 diffusion, + 1darkheart, 1 syphon, 1 leeching
O) I hate this matchup.
Round 2) 2-1 Tron and friends
1- fast start and he was stuck on 1 land
2- kept a bad hand was really slow. I let him play walked and almost had him dead, but he played emrackal and I didn't expect that out.
3- fast start with turn 3 necrotic. I stone rained him off from and aggro'd him out
Sb- - 3 diffusion + 1 leeching, 2 frenetic
O) This seemed like a slower tron variant, which didn't have as good of threats. We just make our cards horizontal and ask our opponent if they lose.
Round 3) 2-0 affinity
1- the opponent kept a bad hand and I was able to puke my hand on the board
2- the opponent mulled to 5. I don't think he under stood my deck because I had a tapped galerider and untapped predatory and attacked with a valtskurge??? I got a turn 4 coco for leatal and 2 harmonic triggers
Sb- - 3 diffusion, 1 deakheart, 1 sentinel + 3 harmonic, 1 syphon, 1 leeching
O) This can be a fun match up when neither player has a busted hand. Harmonic is just too good against them.
Round 4) 0-2 BG tron
1- I got the turn tree nectrotic and stone rained a tron land 4 turns in a row, then stopped drawing creatures.
2- I puked my hand on to the field and had him kinda low. He pushed two of my creatures and played tron then ugin.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, + 1 leeching, 2 frenetic
O) This is probably the worst variant for us to face. The cheap removal and tron is too good for us. I think that the stone rain strategy is probably not the best. We need to race them like every tron, but I'm unsure if we should do something different.
SCG Columbus Regional 5-3-1
I think I got top 64, but I'm not sure. I left before standings were announced.
Round 1) 2-1 gw tron
1- I keep a handful of mana and diffusion silvers. I was able to put pressure and draw into lords and necrotic, but he was able to remove it and get ugin.
2- I got him down to 13 and coco'd for lethal on turn 4 with a lord and blur.
3- I played a turn 3 coco eot and got a blur and mana. I played a predator and activated vault for exactly 20. I got pretty lucky.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, + 1 leeching, 2 frenetic
O) This matchup is a straight race and usually luck based. Karn is good, but usually not good enough. Ugin usually wins though.
Round 2) 1-1 jeskai control w azcanta
1- 40 min game 1 that I made him grind out
2- triple coco to kill him on turn 0
Sb- - 1 deakheart, 2 sentinel + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic
O) Game management is key verses control. They can't kill you in anywhere quickly. Once they get card advantage, you need to start thinking about if you can edge it out and when to possibly concede. This is just to get to game 2 and 3.
Round 3) 2-0 lantern
1- sliver cycled for necrotic, and blew up his bridge
2- harmonic plus 2 lands and mana went in hand. Drew a second harmonic and played on turn 3.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, 4 galerider + 3 harmonic, 3 chalice, 1 screeching
O) My opponent claims that this matchup is unwinnable. There are a lot of outs we have to their "lock" pieces. Game 1 is usually close, but game 2 and 3 can be really bad for them. Homing is also a nightmare for them.
Round 4) 0-2 bw control
1- kept an ok hand and never drew gas
2- kept a mana heavy hand and flooded.
Sb- - 1 darkheart, 2 necrotic, 1 homing, 1 blur, 1 mana + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic, 1 syphon, 1 Chameleon, 1 hivelord
O) This deck was kind of weird. It was half BW tokens and half jund. I think I messed up mulligan choices and
Round 5) 2-0 abzand
1- went back and forth, but resolved coco two turns in a row to overrun him.
2- kept a slow hand, but my opponent got stuck on 2 land. He had the triple path, but I drew tons of threats turn 5+
Sb- -1 darkheart , 2 necrotic + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic
O) I really like this matchup. It’s fun and interactive and close.
Round 6) 0-2 counters coco
1- I got turn three necrotic and he comboed off immediately after I played it.
2- I got the turn 3 chalice on two, which slowed him down, but he corded for a pridemage and destroyed it two turns later. He then comboed off.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, 1 darkheart + 3 chalice, 1 screeching
O) This matchup is unwinnable. I had turn three necrotic and it wasn't good enough. I had turn three chalice on 2 and it was not enough. We need to just more control deck to stop on them, so we can beat up on control.
Round 7) 1-2 deliver
O) Lots of mistakes happened by both players.
Round 8) 2-0 dredge
1- we both mull to 5. He was stuck on 1 land and I got turn 4 coco.
2- he flooded and I got the turn 4 coco to overrun him
Sb- -2 necrotic, + 1 syphon, 1 hivelord
O) The first game was a real non-game. I think we have a really good matchup with dreadge as soon as we get out of darkblast range. We can be faster than them and they don't run the right interaction to mess with us. Also, I realized we can have a really good 5 card hand. I believe it was ( godless shrine, cavern, coco, sentinel, blur). That hand can get there turn 4.
Round 9) 2-0 rb eldrazi contol ???
1- He got stuck on three non eldrazi lands and only played a terminate and a lilly.
2- I had a quick start and he got the turn 3 thoughknot. Then the reality smasher, but I had sedge, preadatory, and blur to blok and regen. I cycled to the galerider. I overran him on the spot.
Sb- + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic, 1 hivelord - 1 darkheart, 2 necrotic, 1 sentinel
O) I could not read this deck at all. He ran snow covered mountains and swamps. I thought it was skred or mardu control. I was thinking a blood moon was coming sometime, but he played the thoughtknot. Homing was very clutch in this game. I think one mainboard is a really smart play.
I'm curious, with the sudden uptick in human lists what changes can we expect in the meta? Sure there will be bandwagoners jumping on the human train, but what opposition to humans can we expect to see also be affective against us? I imagine a bunch of anger of the gods and pyroclasm type effects to come back into favor.
I'm curious, with the sudden uptick in human lists what changes can we expect in the meta? Sure there will be bandwagoners jumping on the human train, but what opposition to humans can we expect to see also be affective against us? I imagine a bunch of anger of the gods and pyroclasm type effects to come back into favor.
I don't think Pyroclasm will see play. Humans tend to grow out of reach very quickly.
I expect some tron and sweepers to rise up. The good news its that spell-based combo is pretty weak to humans, so, with some luck, we will see less ad nauseam and storm in the tables.
The meta statistics say that creature based agro is going up according to reddit. This means sweepers, bolt, and push should be going up. I hope this will stop counters company.
Also, MagicAids did a video on fast slivers. I'm going to try it out sometime soon.
Finally got to see Adam Bowman's most recent scg coverage match... I'm just waiting for the moment where a frenetic sliver hits the board in coverage, a little sad one hasn't made an appearance yet. I think the commentators would explode if we got to see some coin flips.
The player in the above video is definitely not sliver savvy. He made quite a few mistakes and was still attempting to play sedge. I really didn't like cutting the mutavaults either.
I played the fast slivers list last night. I was missing 2 leeching sliver and replaced them with metallic mimic. I was also playing 4 frenzy sliver. It's frustrating to work with mimic. 1 toughness is really bad. I'm not sure if it's my meta, but there was a lot of main deck anger and multiple blood moon decks. Fast slivers is good for low aggro decks and slow big mana/ combo decks. I think the heavy removal midrange/tempo decks are just hard to beat because every sliver isn't a threat by itself. In the coco variant, it seems as if every creature is something that the opponent needs to answer. The fast slivers is a consistent turn 4 when you goldfish it, but I don't think it's good enough in my meta.
FNM 2-3
Round 1) 1-2 blue moon
1- I agro'd really quickly
2- he turn two spreading seas to turn three anger'd into blood moon and I didn't realize that's what he was playing and got locked out
3- I got vial and lords. He turn 3 angered into moon. I immediately played the harmonic and a lord. He was able to anger again and find a second moon.
Sb- + 2 frenetic, - 2 syphon
Sb2- + 3 harmonic, - 3 virulent
O) Spreading seas and blood moon are hard to deal with. The coco variant has better mana fixing and more outs. This variant has issues with reloading post board wipe and dealing with moons.
Round 2) 0-2 affinity
1- I misblocked and lost my galerider, then loser to an ink moth nexus
2- I got the turn 3 harmonic and he wipflair'd my board. I lost to the inkmoth again
Sb- +3 venom, 3 harmonic - 2 diffusion, 2 mimic, 2 syphon
O) I could have won, but I made a couple mistakes. This matchup is really good because of striking, galerider, and sidwinder.
Round 3) 2-0 jeskai aggro
1- overran him with galerider and frenzy.
2- I got double sidewinder and cycled for syphon.
Sb- + 3 venom, 1 darkheart, 1 homing - 2 diffusion, 2 mimic, 1 virulent
O) Galerider and crew are hard to deal with for aggro decks.
Round 4) 2-0 GB drain
1- overran him quickly him
2- slow hand but built up board and overanhim
Sb- + 1 chameleon, 1 venom - 2 syphon
O) This was a low creature deck. Slivers is great against low creature decks.
Round 5) 0-2 grixis shadow
1- I put him to 1 and he pulled a removal spell for my blockers to kill me on the crack back.
2- He drew a ton of removal. I couldn't keep my guys on the field at all.
O) I feel like this is a bad matchup, but I think there might be a different strategy. You might have to wait and setup a lethal strike for 8+.
I too played a version of fast slivers Friday. Similar results.
2-2
Round 1, r/g ponza 2-0. 5 guys on turn 3 was pretty sweet.
Round 2, u/b mill 0-2. Field of ruin forces the search, that sucks for archive traps.
Round 3, affinity 2-0. Poison for the win game 1 then a mistimed whipflare missed my harmonic.
Round 4, burn 0-2. Burn had perfect hands both games, no chance.
I was running with 2 darkkhearts main, but rarely saw them and needed them in that last match.
I was thinking of a WRB version of Slivers. I thought about Collected Company but notice that I REALLY didn't like the green slivers. However, I DO like Abrupt Decay. I'm willing to drop one of those colors. But I would like a second opinion as I'm still new to Slivers.
Star City Games has posted a pretty interesting list of Slivers http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36206_Video-Slivers-In-Modern.html
No Collected Co., no Sedge Sliver. Instead, it runs Shadow Sliver and... Bonesplitter? A Playset of Mindlash?
And what with that sideboard?
It seems interesting to look at. Any thoughts?
^^^ Looks like Ari Lax did what I was suggesting 3 weeks ago back in my post #1753. Slivers with Hive & Vial and the new 5C Humans manabase.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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WUBRG Fast Slivers
Round 1 vs goblins 2-0 1) My opponent kept a bad hand and allowed me to stabilize.
SB) + 1 syphon, 1 darkheart ; - 2 necrotic
2) The opponent had a fast start, but was afraid to attack when I got a couple lords. I coco'd for syphon and a lord. That ended the game.
O) I really like syphon is creature match ups.
Round 2 vs burn 2-0 1) I kept a hand full of lords. He only played eidolon, searing blaze, and blot. I just over ran him.
SB) + 3 chalice, 1 darkheart, 1 syphon ; - 3 diffusion, 2 necrotic
2) He got me to 7, then I coco'd for syphon and another creature. I gained a bunch of life and put him on a 1 turn clock.
O) I'm still unsure on chalice on this match up. Darkheart and syphon are really good answers through.
Round 3 vs Tron 2-0 1) I had a hand full of lords and he didn't have turn 4 tron.
SB) + 2 frenetic, 1 telekinetic ; - 3 diffusion
2) He pyro'd my board, but was stuck on 2 lands. I got both frenetics and 2 lords. He had no outs at that point.
O) I don't think we have any reasonable interaction, so putting them on a clock is best. Frenetic is really good against their answers.
Round 4 vs Elves 1-2 1) I out raced him with lords.
SB) + 1 syphon, 3 chalice ; - 3 diffusion, 1 darkheart
2) He overran me with ezuri. I got chalice on 1, but it didn't make that much of a difference
3) He had a small board, but got a ezuri. I couldn't get bigger that him.
O) I always viewed this a combo deck, but it plays like an agro deck. The plan is to race them and be able to block.
Round 5 vs Affinity 2-1 1) He mulled to 5 and I was able to race him with sentinel and lords.
SB) + 1 syphon, 3 chalice, 3 harmonic ; - 3 diffusion, 1 darkheart, 1 mana, 1 blur, 1 sedge
2) I had a slow hand and he puked his hand onto the board.
3) He had a slow start and I was able to coco to syphon and a lord. I was able to out race him from there.
O) Galerider is really needed to block profitably. Chalice should only be in on the play. This match up is super draw dependent.
I like the idea of adding leeching to the SB in place of telekinetic. This is to add an extra lord and help race the opponent. The plan against combo deck is to force them to have the combo turn 4. Also if we gain life, the non-infinite combos have to have the perfect hand. This still means we still lose to counter coco, if they draw it.
WUBRG Fast Slivers
3-1 (22 players, capped at 4 rounds for time) 5th place.
Round 1, 2-1 vs Goblins. Game 1. I flooded out in lands and didnt draw enough threats. Sideboard, -2 Necrotic -1 Dismember +2 Syphon +1 Homing. My opponent flooded out in both games 2 and 3. I was assuming he was heavy on lands early and was allowing his Warren Instigator to hit me and taking out everything else in order to win combats. Eventually the flood kept him off threats and the sliver army got there. Never did see the Syphons or Homing but the main Darkhearts did show up.
Round 2, 1-2 vs Titan Shift. Game 1 the flood was on again for me... It ended quickly once he found a Primeval Titan. Sideboard, -2 Dismember +2 warping wail (I sided more, just cant remember what else) Game 2 we both mulligan to 5 and my hand was better than his and ended quickly in my favor. Game 3 I made an error in keeping my 7. It looked manageable but ended up being my downfall, I didnt have a 5 color land and had 2 Sinews and eventually drew a 3rd and was unable to cast. I did slow him dow with the Wail on a farseek but two turns later Primeval Titan showed up.
Round 3, 2-1 Jeskai geist. Game 1 was little contest, I turn 2 dropped Diffusion off a Cavern and it made me much harder to deal with and I got there with little opposition. Sided in Hivelord Frenetics Homing and Wails taking out Necrotics, Darkhearts and Dsimembers. Game 2 I didnt see the Cavern and lost a Diffusion to a counter spell early, and eventually lost a pretty good board to a Wrath effect and was unable to recover. Game 3 I saw the Hivelord and hard cast him off 2 caverns so super uncounterable but 3 turns later he was pathed for 3 mana. It all came down to Sliver hive, I ended up with 7 tokens on board and kept getting thru his Cryptic commands by having blur out and making a token after he tapped down the team and activating mutavaults.
Round 4, 2-1 mardu nahiri. game 1 I had to keep a suboptiomal hand and ended up eating an emrakul hit and surviving for 2 more turns. Sideboard, took out dismembers and darkhearts to bring in wails homing and telekinetic. Game 2 I landed a turn 3 coco and dropped a blur off of it and went to town on his face. Game 3 was a bit closer but I still managed to get there, finally called a flip correct with frenetic too.
I was simply dreadful at calling coins all night, 2 correct out of 8 attempts. We really need a better option than Frenetic, hopefully we get it in Dominaria come April.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Secondly, how aboutAncient Ziggurat as a X4 along with 4 Sliver Hive, 4 Cavern and maybe even the new Unclaimed Territory X4 as well?
With the recent success of 5 color Humans, it seems Slivers could be poised to make a big comeback. Thoughts from anyone?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Metallic mimic is just not as strong as other options in slivers. Sinew sliver, predatory sliver, sedge sliver, frenzy sliver, leeching sliver all immediately effect the board state. Mimic only help the cards after it. Also, harmonic sliver may blow it up.
The mana base is used in the fast slivers build. It's ok, but it doesn't allow us to use the powerful sedge sliver. The more midrange style coco build needs the fetches and shocks.
Humans is built to stop combo, small creature, and tempo decks. Slivers is built to stop aggro, midrange, and control. Slivers is in a good spot because combo is sort of under control. The non-interactive decks are really hard to deal with. Those are the decks humans can complete stop because of Kitesail Freebooter and Meddling Mage. As the meta shifts back to more "fair" decks, slivers will get better. It's an odd deck to play and will still be fringe until more slivers are printed. The good news is the domineria is rumored to have between 20-50 sliver cards. Hopefully, two or more of the cards will be modern playable.
The dominera rumors are coming from the complaints that slivers were undraftable in m14 and m15. The fact that magic is designed around draft force wizards to print a few or a lot. Dominera has slivers and they are a key part of it's story. Therefore, dominera is going to have a fair amount of slivers.
WUBRG Fast Slivers
On a side note, hey Timba, how do you deal with early blood moons with your fast sliver list? I've been struggling with it when I play that list.
I am really excited for Dominaria in April, I really think we'll get some playable pieces to help take this deck to tier 1-2. Hopefully Wizards will take the criticism from the core set slivers and make them a more playable archetype in the draft format and maybe even standard.
Upcoming fun... Preregistered yesterday for Grand Prix Oklahoma City in December. The hive will be represented.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Sadly, it looks like he only had 15 points on the day. However, I think I saw a Telekinetic Sliver in his main deck and his sideboard is different.
2 frenetic sliver
2 darkheart sliver
1 telekinetic sliver
1 necrotic sliver
1 sliver hivelord
1 nameless inversion
1 dismember
1 leeching sliver
1 dusk // dawn
1 homing sliver
I like nameless inversion because it can be casted off sliver hive and tutored with homing sliver. I think it's not good enough in this meta. Fatal push is probably better, but is harder to cast. The only things you hit of relevance are counter company combo pieces, but warping wail and dismember do this better right now.
I like the idea of leeching sliver being your 13th lord. This can be useful, but remember the trigger dose not gain you life with syphon sliver. I'm unsure on cutting to only 3 harmonics with the rise in affinity.
I have no clue why dusk to dawn is in there. It's uncastable without a mana sliver. Also, dusk will probably board wipe us. It seems really bad. If you want board wipe, Settle the Wreckage is probably really good for us. You can swing with almost everything and allow a big crack back. This would surprise board wipe them. I haven't played it, but it's really popular in standard.
Also at the 36 min mark, bowman lets his 4/4 darkheart die to searing blaze.
WUBRG Fast Slivers
About Adam Bowman's sideboard
I think Nameless inversion (and Fatal Push which needs B too) is worse than Dismember and it cant be played on your sliver to pump because it will lose types and die
dusk // dawn imo is more like an Emrakul here, you accidentally show it to your opponent to make him think you are not on mass creatures deck). If all your creatures dead, you dont have mana to resurrect them
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Usually, trying to race them. I have two relic of progenitus in my board that helps a lot. Against graveyard combo, you can only pray to hit one piece of hate and being faster than them.
Apart from that, I would like to share a experience that I recently have. I have always had a love-hate relationship with Diffusion Sliver. When its good, its very good. When its irrelevant, its TERRIBLE. A 1/1 for 2 that doesn't do anything was something that hurted me a lot.
I moved them to the sideboard. Yep. And I replaced them with Leeching sliver.
After a few rounds, I have found the change worthy.
Diffusion Sliver is not as good as we can believe, for the same reason Kopala is not replacing Kira in merfolks. Paying two more mana is painful in many situations, but Modern is a format that plays many lands and can overcome that disadvantage quickly. Also, being Diffusion out of curve is something that pushes our tempo back, making it awful at race. In slow, interactive matchups, difussion is a very good card. But in the rest, it's just terrible. Diffusion only makes a difference when the rival deck is full of 1x1 removal (aka control and midrange). Not even a playset of path to exiles justifyes the inclusion of a very mediocre body.
Leeching Sliver is a hell of a card. Don't think in it as a bad lord: it's a completely different creature. Unlike Diffusion, Leeching sliver impacts the board immediately. I have found it useful against almost every pairing: against aggro, it help us race. Against control, it gives the opponent another important target. Against locked battlefields, the ability of throwing damage skipping the block phase is invaluable. Against interactive matchups, its boarded out in favor of diffusion or more resistant slivers.
Seriously, give it a try. I have found it worthy.
With that said, I see some worry about Blood Moon. MM as a +2 in the side could be a tiny hedge against it as it would be castable. BM almost looks like a hard lock versus the deck (either version). Again thanks for the responses.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It is hard, but not impossible as you can fetch for basics and aether vial and manaweft can help a lot in the matchup.
Personally, I actually run 19 lands (pre unclaimed territory) with a spare gemhide sliver, ontop of the 4 manaweft
FNM 2-2
Round 1) 1-2 titanshift
1- aggroed him out and he drew nothing
2- comboed off on turn 4
3- slow start coco, then he angered
Sb- -3 diffusion, + 1darkheart, 1 syphon, 1 leeching
O) I hate this matchup.
Round 2) 2-1 Tron and friends
1- fast start and he was stuck on 1 land
2- kept a bad hand was really slow. I let him play walked and almost had him dead, but he played emrackal and I didn't expect that out.
3- fast start with turn 3 necrotic. I stone rained him off from and aggro'd him out
Sb- - 3 diffusion + 1 leeching, 2 frenetic
O) This seemed like a slower tron variant, which didn't have as good of threats. We just make our cards horizontal and ask our opponent if they lose.
Round 3) 2-0 affinity
1- the opponent kept a bad hand and I was able to puke my hand on the board
2- the opponent mulled to 5. I don't think he under stood my deck because I had a tapped galerider and untapped predatory and attacked with a valtskurge??? I got a turn 4 coco for leatal and 2 harmonic triggers
Sb- - 3 diffusion, 1 deakheart, 1 sentinel + 3 harmonic, 1 syphon, 1 leeching
O) This can be a fun match up when neither player has a busted hand. Harmonic is just too good against them.
Round 4) 0-2 BG tron
1- I got the turn tree nectrotic and stone rained a tron land 4 turns in a row, then stopped drawing creatures.
2- I puked my hand on to the field and had him kinda low. He pushed two of my creatures and played tron then ugin.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, + 1 leeching, 2 frenetic
O) This is probably the worst variant for us to face. The cheap removal and tron is too good for us. I think that the stone rain strategy is probably not the best. We need to race them like every tron, but I'm unsure if we should do something different.
SCG Columbus Regional 5-3-1
I think I got top 64, but I'm not sure. I left before standings were announced.
Round 1) 2-1 gw tron
1- I keep a handful of mana and diffusion silvers. I was able to put pressure and draw into lords and necrotic, but he was able to remove it and get ugin.
2- I got him down to 13 and coco'd for lethal on turn 4 with a lord and blur.
3- I played a turn 3 coco eot and got a blur and mana. I played a predator and activated vault for exactly 20. I got pretty lucky.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, + 1 leeching, 2 frenetic
O) This matchup is a straight race and usually luck based. Karn is good, but usually not good enough. Ugin usually wins though.
Round 2) 1-1 jeskai control w azcanta
1- 40 min game 1 that I made him grind out
2- triple coco to kill him on turn 0
Sb- - 1 deakheart, 2 sentinel + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic
O) Game management is key verses control. They can't kill you in anywhere quickly. Once they get card advantage, you need to start thinking about if you can edge it out and when to possibly concede. This is just to get to game 2 and 3.
Round 3) 2-0 lantern
1- sliver cycled for necrotic, and blew up his bridge
2- harmonic plus 2 lands and mana went in hand. Drew a second harmonic and played on turn 3.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, 4 galerider + 3 harmonic, 3 chalice, 1 screeching
O) My opponent claims that this matchup is unwinnable. There are a lot of outs we have to their "lock" pieces. Game 1 is usually close, but game 2 and 3 can be really bad for them. Homing is also a nightmare for them.
Round 4) 0-2 bw control
1- kept an ok hand and never drew gas
2- kept a mana heavy hand and flooded.
Sb- - 1 darkheart, 2 necrotic, 1 homing, 1 blur, 1 mana + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic, 1 syphon, 1 Chameleon, 1 hivelord
O) This deck was kind of weird. It was half BW tokens and half jund. I think I messed up mulligan choices and
Round 5) 2-0 abzand
1- went back and forth, but resolved coco two turns in a row to overrun him.
2- kept a slow hand, but my opponent got stuck on 2 land. He had the triple path, but I drew tons of threats turn 5+
Sb- -1 darkheart , 2 necrotic + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic
O) I really like this matchup. It’s fun and interactive and close.
Round 6) 0-2 counters coco
1- I got turn three necrotic and he comboed off immediately after I played it.
2- I got the turn 3 chalice on two, which slowed him down, but he corded for a pridemage and destroyed it two turns later. He then comboed off.
Sb- - 3 diffusion, 1 darkheart + 3 chalice, 1 screeching
O) This matchup is unwinnable. I had turn three necrotic and it wasn't good enough. I had turn three chalice on 2 and it was not enough. We need to just more control deck to stop on them, so we can beat up on control.
Round 7) 1-2 deliver
O) Lots of mistakes happened by both players.
Round 8) 2-0 dredge
1- we both mull to 5. He was stuck on 1 land and I got turn 4 coco.
2- he flooded and I got the turn 4 coco to overrun him
Sb- -2 necrotic, + 1 syphon, 1 hivelord
O) The first game was a real non-game. I think we have a really good matchup with dreadge as soon as we get out of darkblast range. We can be faster than them and they don't run the right interaction to mess with us. Also, I realized we can have a really good 5 card hand. I believe it was ( godless shrine, cavern, coco, sentinel, blur). That hand can get there turn 4.
Round 9) 2-0 rb eldrazi contol ???
1- He got stuck on three non eldrazi lands and only played a terminate and a lilly.
2- I had a quick start and he got the turn 3 thoughknot. Then the reality smasher, but I had sedge, preadatory, and blur to blok and regen. I cycled to the galerider. I overran him on the spot.
Sb- + 1 diffusion, 2 frenetic, 1 hivelord - 1 darkheart, 2 necrotic, 1 sentinel
O) I could not read this deck at all. He ran snow covered mountains and swamps. I thought it was skred or mardu control. I was thinking a blood moon was coming sometime, but he played the thoughtknot. Homing was very clutch in this game. I think one mainboard is a really smart play.
WUBRG Fast Slivers
I'm curious, with the sudden uptick in human lists what changes can we expect in the meta? Sure there will be bandwagoners jumping on the human train, but what opposition to humans can we expect to see also be affective against us? I imagine a bunch of anger of the gods and pyroclasm type effects to come back into favor.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
I don't think Pyroclasm will see play. Humans tend to grow out of reach very quickly.
I expect some tron and sweepers to rise up. The good news its that spell-based combo is pretty weak to humans, so, with some luck, we will see less ad nauseam and storm in the tables.
Also, MagicAids did a video on fast slivers. I'm going to try it out sometime soon.
WUBRG Fast Slivers
The player in the above video is definitely not sliver savvy. He made quite a few mistakes and was still attempting to play sedge. I really didn't like cutting the mutavaults either.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
FNM 2-3
Round 1) 1-2 blue moon
1- I agro'd really quickly
2- he turn two spreading seas to turn three anger'd into blood moon and I didn't realize that's what he was playing and got locked out
3- I got vial and lords. He turn 3 angered into moon. I immediately played the harmonic and a lord. He was able to anger again and find a second moon.
Sb- + 2 frenetic, - 2 syphon
Sb2- + 3 harmonic, - 3 virulent
O) Spreading seas and blood moon are hard to deal with. The coco variant has better mana fixing and more outs. This variant has issues with reloading post board wipe and dealing with moons.
Round 2) 0-2 affinity
1- I misblocked and lost my galerider, then loser to an ink moth nexus
2- I got the turn 3 harmonic and he wipflair'd my board. I lost to the inkmoth again
Sb- +3 venom, 3 harmonic - 2 diffusion, 2 mimic, 2 syphon
O) I could have won, but I made a couple mistakes. This matchup is really good because of striking, galerider, and sidwinder.
Round 3) 2-0 jeskai aggro
1- overran him with galerider and frenzy.
2- I got double sidewinder and cycled for syphon.
Sb- + 3 venom, 1 darkheart, 1 homing - 2 diffusion, 2 mimic, 1 virulent
O) Galerider and crew are hard to deal with for aggro decks.
Round 4) 2-0 GB drain
1- overran him quickly him
2- slow hand but built up board and overanhim
Sb- + 1 chameleon, 1 venom - 2 syphon
O) This was a low creature deck. Slivers is great against low creature decks.
Round 5) 0-2 grixis shadow
1- I put him to 1 and he pulled a removal spell for my blockers to kill me on the crack back.
2- He drew a ton of removal. I couldn't keep my guys on the field at all.
O) I feel like this is a bad matchup, but I think there might be a different strategy. You might have to wait and setup a lethal strike for 8+.
WUBRG Fast Slivers
2-2
Round 1, r/g ponza 2-0. 5 guys on turn 3 was pretty sweet.
Round 2, u/b mill 0-2. Field of ruin forces the search, that sucks for archive traps.
Round 3, affinity 2-0. Poison for the win game 1 then a mistimed whipflare missed my harmonic.
Round 4, burn 0-2. Burn had perfect hands both games, no chance.
I was running with 2 darkkhearts main, but rarely saw them and needed them in that last match.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Vintage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legacy
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36206_Video-Slivers-In-Modern.html
No Collected Co., no Sedge Sliver. Instead, it runs Shadow Sliver and... Bonesplitter? A Playset of Mindlash?
And what with that sideboard?
It seems interesting to look at. Any thoughts?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."