I am prepping for an IQ on the 17th in Kansas City. My most up to date list is linked in my signature, any suggestions? As its a 3 hour drive for me I am unsure of the meta so I'm going in blind for the most part but I expect a lot of tier decks.
Some thoughts - I have considered removing Homing sliver from the sideboard and replace it with something else.
I am not running Relics in the sideboard at the moment, so I am glad that they are working for you.
I would try to squeeze in a second Warping Wail and/or Telekinetic Sliver. I think Warping Wail is going to be more relevant to deal with Counters Company, Gifts Storm, Titanshift, and All is Dust as well as other random sorcery cards.
Striking Sliver may not be that relevant to our discussion as sentinel sliver may provide you more options.
I have also considered going down to 1 life gainer in the main and 3 in the side.
These are just some thoughts. I find your Blood Crypt for Mutavault interesting, but it is something that I can't see myself doing although I did like the Urborg in the one list.
I think overall it is a fine list. Your differences highlight different concerns and strategies and your answer to them. It isn't bad just different. I look forward to your results.
I have a couple questions that I've been trying to figure out.
Why have some Slivers list been sideboarding Chameleon Colossus?
What exactly is the Warping Wail doing against the G/W counters deck?
Why have some Slivers lists been sideboarding Mindlash Sliver?
Why are you guys running so many lifegain Slivers?
1. Chameleon Colossus is good against Fatal Push decks and against Grixis Death Shadow, it can win the game as they can't reasonably blcok it. The Protection from Black is the real deal.
2. Warping Wail exiles mana dorks and devoted druid.
3. Mindlash Sliver provides a good effect against combo decks like Storm, Ad Nausuem, and provides value against heavy removal decks. It generally isn't one of the first slivers you play, but if one of the last can make sure the combo deck can't go off or can remove cards that are in hand.
4. Burn is popular and having more pieces can help. 2 Darkhearts make sense in a heavy removal enviornment and against Living End. Syphon Sliver can be good against non-combo aggro decks like Merfolk, Zoo, Jeskai Geist or Jeskai Prowess, Affinity, Taxes deck,
It is interesting, but I am wondering what it is for.
Chalice is best for decks like Death's Shadow, Living End, Burn, Lantern Control, Storm (at 2), etc.
It might improve our Death's Shadow matchup, but I think Chameleon Colossus could do it as well as apply to other decks. It also doesn't stop kologhan's command, but it could buy us several turns to get ahead though.
However, the biggest flaw to chalice in Modern Slivers is that it doesn't stop enough game plans and we can't generally afford to take our turn 2 or 4 off casting especially against burn who run now more 2 mana spells as boros.
The descendant's paths are interesting for Control/Midrange decks (althoguh I feel they have answers for it and it is slow. However, it is an interesting out of the box option that we might want to look into similar answers to get card advantage.
Score! aether vial reprint in Iconic Masters, in fact i'm pretty impressed so far with the spoilers for Iconic masters, though i had thought they weren't going to spoil anything til the set released.
If you are looking to go Bant Slivers. I would take inspiration from CounterSliver in legacy and see where you can adapt it to modern.
I made this deck in the past but havn't tested it, I'm not much of the countermagic type and only play FNMs at a small local store, so I don't know if those counters are the best, I took them from the tier control decks, but if anyone's up to test a modern CounterSlivers I'd like to read of it's results...
Keep trying and testing new things. I havent played much recently due to illness, but I still plan to go to Kansas City tomorrow for an IQ. Probably not the best idea going into the event not 100% but I just want to play competitively again. I feel we will be able to brew other decks beyond the traditional list once we have the new land from Ixalan Unclaimed Territory. I feel it lends to a CoCo-less deck with Vial best.
Played an IQ today, 25 players, 5 rounds followed by a cut. It started poorly but ended on a positive note.
3-2 record, 12th place.
Round 1, 1-2 vs living end. Made a mistake in game 3 that really cost me. Failed to float a regeneration shield onto my sedge when he fulminator maged my only swamp. Ended up costing me the match.
Round 2, 0-2 vs gifts storm. Really starting to hate this matchup. Got my opponent to 1 life in game 2 before he combo'd off. He killed on my turn 3 in game 1.
Round 3, 2-1 vs abzan midrange. Wasn't too memorable, don't remember much from the match other than my opponent keeping in leylines of sanctity in games 2 and 3.
Round 4, 2-1 vs devoted elves. Got craterhoofed in game 1, really thought there was a chance until the behemoth dropped. Won games 2 and 3 without much opposition. Dismembered a turn 1 llanowar elf in game 3 to set him way behind.
Round 5, 2-0 vs titan shift. Guy was splashing white for paths and sideboard cards. He saved himself damage by pathing blur slivers each game but he couldn't handle the slivers. Game 2, a warping wail countered his scape shift.
Really got off to a crappy start, had i seen a dark heart in round 1 it'd have been as different event. Really hate storm! Wish we had an easier way to play chalice for the storm matchup. Three additional warping wail worked really well.
Yeah, that can happen. I am on MTGO and if I can do better, and figure out how to do it. I might start to do videos, but that is a long way away.
I saw a pro stream slivers on Twitter and was playing it differently than I would. I am going to need to review those games and his Necrotic Sliver play as it seems very interesting and probably better. I think it was Shawn Maclaren so his videos might be up on Twitch.
The list is a work in progress and the sideboard is a bit generic, but I'm more worried about the consistency and speed of the main deck now.
Since most decks in Tier 1 uses fetches, if not all of them, and generally a "keepable hand" with those decks consist of possibly 2 fetches, when they are goldfishing, a turn 1 Root Maze could deprive them from mana until their 3rd turn. With some spells that help complement this strategy like Early Frost (on the opponent upkeep) and probably Reduce // Rubble, it would be possible to keep the opponent completely out of the whole game while sliver beating them. Decks that don't use fetches usually play with some amount of artifacts which could be delayed with Root Maze as well.
Other card that play an important whole here is Diffusion Sliver, which with the Maze is capable of keeping his ability relevant for enough time to close the game.
Of course, Root Maze would make your lands come into play tapped, but since there is Crumbling Vestige I start thinking that maybe it could be mitigated to the point where it wouldn't matter as much as it would for the other side of the table.
This list has become quite thigh, that's why I'm with Megantic Sliver. With this Sliver out and any other sliver, you got a 2 turn clock. If I manage to make it stick with the list (and cast it), it would be very space saving.
Another idea would be using a set of Virulent Sliver main deck. It wound help the early game after playing Root Maze, so then I wouldn't rely on Crumbling Vestige that much and have an alternative win condition in case I can't find Megantic.
This deck is an idea that I would like to become a possible competitive counterpart of slivers in Modern. And since it's build around a specific strategy against the meta, it could be considered a Counter Sliver
I went 1-4 in my first MTGO competitive league. I lost to B/W Eldrazi Taxes, E-Tron, Elves, and U/W Control. I beat G/B Rock.
I can't really measure some of these matches as I made many misclicks or didn't click at all with Vial, Mutavault, and Necrotic Sliver (destroy my own lands). I also timed out twice against B/W Eldrazi taxes where I could have turned the corner and against U/W Control where I had the win (i would have won on my turn as he was tapped out.
I can't really say anything to that. A lot of it was my own mistakes and misclicks. It was my fault.
Red XIII
I am going to try to help you with your brew. I am not a fan of this list as I don't think you provide enough threat to win off of your tempo game considering that most removal is at instant speed and eventually they will have the mana to deal with your creatures and ultimately 2 threats (magantic sliver just isn't enough)
Also, tapping lands isn't all that great when you are trying to disrupt some decks. Destroying lands and killing creatues is where you want to be. I would go with 8 traditional lords to help speed up your tempo.
If you are playing blue, you might prefer counter spells in addition to root maze. You don't have a quick enough clock or engine in my opinion. You will want traditional lords to speed up your aggro plan as well as counter spells to ensure that instant speed effects don't cripple you.
You could look at Taking Turns for a similiar strategy and adopt some of their cards like exhaustion. If you want more effects. You could look at Dormant Sliver. It would continue to help you draw your non-sliver disruption cards.
I would build something that provides you mana, telekinetic sliver, cheap slivers to use with TK sliver, disruption in the form of paths and counter back up, a sac outlet sliver and Sliver Legion/Sliver Hivelord.
You may want a back up aggressive plan. I am not saying abandon Root Maze, but realize that you need a quicker clock that you are presenting as some decks like Ad Nausuem can go off at instant speed or run on such a low curve that eventually root maze is useless sooner than you can put megantic sliver on the battlefield like Grixis Death Shadow. You also have Valakut decks which your tempo plan won't do it as all they need is enough land drops. This is where the Traditional Lords come in
So, lets brew
I am not sure how budget you are though, so this might be expensive. I would stick to bant colors rather than temur though.
Sliver Hivelord/Sliver Legion can always be substituded for Homing Sliver/Darkheart or other Sac outlet for dormant sliver. The key is getting telekinetic into play more than playing tempo spells.
Telekinetic Sliver is going to be ultimately better for you then those spells, but you need a mass of slivers to make them work. Screeching Sliver could also be very good as a 1 drop mill effect or Mindlash Sliver as a 1 drop discard effect.
You will need more than 1 or 2 sac outlets if you are playing with Dormant Sliver which I would recommend in any prison sliver strategy which you seem to be more aiming to. I would also see if I could Necrotic Sliver and Sliver Hive as well to aid in that. There is a reason Ponza doesn't play Temur with Exhaustion and those type effects. It is better to remove the land then keep it. You might not need a traditional lords if you want to play with Sliver Legion and Necrotic Sliver.
I could imagine a deck that plays to Necrotic Sliver, Mana Slivers, Telekinetic Sliver, Sedge Sliver, Sliver Legion, Sliver Hivelord and Aether Vial. Root Maze could help so could Diffusion Sliver
I am going to try to help you with your brew. I am not a fan of this list as I don't think you provide enough threat to win off of your tempo game considering that most removal is at instant speed and eventually they will have the mana to deal with your creatures and ultimately 2 threats (magantic sliver just isn't enough)
I know, the clock isn't fast enough as is.
The idea was that "eventually" wouldn't be fast enough for the opponent to wait for their answers. and as they find them, they would be met with a counter. That's one of the reasons I thought it should be more tempo oriented than control.
You will need more than 1 or 2 sac outlets if you are playing with Dormant Sliver which I would recommend in any prison sliver strategy which you seem to be more aiming to.
I don't want this deck to be a prison deck that goes on and on for turns. I rather end it at most until the 7th turn. That basically why I try to consider it as a tempo deck more than a control one. Well, at least control is not how I intend for it to be.
I may not need traditional lords if I got a legion alike and a necrotic alike, like you said. That would be the Megantic and the Telekinetic respectively.
I just keep writing about a 2 sliver in the battlefield setup because I agree with you that there will be a lot of removal against the deck. So if I manage to build it around that minimum, then I think it wouldn't be a problem with a mass of slivers.
Remove the lands is better than keeping (and tapping) them. got it. I think the same, but it will make the game go too long for me to control. Land destruction spells tend to be expensive (mana wise). or you pay it with mana (stone rain) or with your own permanents (boom//bust, smallpox, crack the earth). I built a Ponza like deck for a friend of mine and I'm building a dega/mardu pox with mentioned cards above. I don't think that it's the way for this deck, so I considered a strategy that would deny thier mana as well but not rely on many heavy spells (3cc) which would require me to ramp into nor double edge effects.
Diffusion Sliver can hold on for only so much. I would like the diffusion to be as relevant as possible, so the solution I came up with was tapping lands and/or keep tapped and I realized that it would need some light counter at least for certain situations, but as the deck was, I was not such how to make it fit in the list. It will probably need some number of filtering to find them as well.
I very much agree with the Taking Turns analogy, I was actually considering that deck as reference for my build. That deck plays similarly before it start taking turns.
I also agree with the possible aggro plan if needed. One of the first version of this build, I was using Blur Sliver and Firewake Sliver which sac ability was quite relevant.
I do realize the deck needs to be faster, I even wrote it at the end of my first comment. I was running Hidden Strings to untap my lands at some point, but I end up with that list considering removals and the space left.
The other problem I see with my list is that it requires too many spells in a specific sequence in order for it to work.
The way it is, it's hard to set such a sequence even with numbers of filter/cantrips. This list progressed alot since my first version months ago, starting with Monastery Siege as Diffusion Slivers 5-8 to a list that at times can completely lock the opponent out of the game by turn 6. "at times" is not good enough, but the Siege can be good against burn though.
I used to have a list with the same ideas you provided, back in 2007. It was only UG though and ended the game with either Screeching Sliver, Virulent Sliver or Psionic Sliver. It had the same idea of the "Opposition Slivers" backed up with counters. But it's very control oriented.
I don't want you to think I'm disregarding the deck lists you provided some how. It's just that I had already built something like that in the past and it was too much of a control list.
I'm starting to reconsider my old Mardu Sliver deck though.
It used to work in my meta.
Maybe with No rest for the Wicked and Basal Sliver, a big spell...
Well, anyway.
Sorry for the long post and thanks the help.
I'm going to play in a local PPTQ with my slivers deck next week. The local meta is one I know well, and although there will be some new decks I expect I'll be fine against most. However, last competition I lost against Jund. Badly. This time, there will be multiple Jund decks around, and I still haven't found a way to beat them. I'm even thinking of playing Leyline of Sanctity 4x sideboard to help against this matchup, but do we have any other cards that help against Jund that I might not be aware of? 4x Diffusion wasn't enough
Jund is difficult because they offer premium discard, removal, and a quick clock. This is in someways why Grixis Death Shadow is trouble for slivers. We can beat jund. They can have hands that line up perfectly with what we are doing and that will suck for us, but they can have hands that don't. We can have highly aggressive hands that will get them or we can have long grindy hands that will get them in the end.
Slivers can grind as well as be aggressive.
Diffusion Sliver, Sedge Sliver, Frenetic Sliver, Sliver Hivelord with a dash of Mindlash Sliver, Cautery Sliver, and Darkheart sliver are our best protection spells. The last 3 are for providing some value for their removal, the first four can make their mana difficult.
Warping Wail does eliminate Dark Confident and Damnation which they will probably play. Chameleon Colossus is probably one of our best Beaters in this matchup.
It will depend on what they have, and might need to start aggressive but prepared to play a more tempo game with Necrotic Sliver, Sedge Sliver etc.
You could shave aether vials on the draw for more slivers and then bring them back in on the play if you win a game. Merfolk does this.
Dismembers could also be good kill spells.
I think the key will be to recognize or guess the strategy they will go for and whether or not Damnation is in their hand for over extending reasons.
With it we can have around 10-12 lands that suits well along our slivers. As we have slivers that produces mana of any color, we normally don't struggle with colored spells such as collected company.
I use to play with 20 lands, so I think that 10 all-colored mana would be fine, along with 5 fetches and shocks/basic lands.
I think Unclaimed Territory goes into a different deck than the current CoCo/Vial deck.
I am thinking you might want to drop CoCo all together and rely more on Small Slivers and Vial for a straight up stompy/aggro plan ala pauper slivers or legacy all-in slivers. Sedge Sliver is a house, but I wouldn't play him while also playing Unclaimed Territory. Mutavault is too valuable to give up as well are chances for the forest and swamp in the current lists.
I think if you want to play with Unclaimed Territory you should take inspriation from the All-In Legacy Sliver lists, the Pauper Sliver lists, and the Modern Fast Sliver lists. They are all viable, but have clear weaknesses which might make it worse for competitive modern play that the current Sedge Sliver lists can work around.
Sedge Sliver lists can grind better than these lists. The classic Aggressive lists can be better though against minimum disruption lists and other aggro lists. Losing CoCo hurts against our explosiveness, combat tricks, and recovery. Fast Lists though are better and more consistant at goldfishing turn 3-5 wins, but have worse recovery. The more non-sliver spells you add such as Vial, Dismember, Warping Wail, the less concentration of slivers you will have when you draw. Its a trade off.
I am not sure its worth it, but in the last few pages there were lists and look at them, improve them, play with them, and see what happens. I eagerly await testing.
I'm going to play in a local PPTQ with my slivers deck next week. The local meta is one I know well, and although there will be some new decks I expect I'll be fine against most. However, last competition I lost against Jund. Badly. This time, there will be multiple Jund decks around, and I still haven't found a way to beat them. I'm even thinking of playing Leyline of Sanctity 4x sideboard to help against this matchup, but do we have any other cards that help against Jund that I might not be aware of? 4x Diffusion wasn't enough
Play Fast Slivers, they were very good vs Jund. If your meta has low Bolt counts and little creature decks replace one Mutagenic with Apostle's Blessing, Phantasmal Image or Striking Sliver
If thats not what you are asking for
Dont play Leylines, play 2 Relic of Progenitus
My last chance at a PPTQ this season is tomorrow a couple hours drive from me, not sure I even want to go since I havent played much lately due to illness and still havent fully recovered. I know the place its being held at to be a very small shop so Im guessing it'll be less than 30 players. That alone makes me want to try because of it being so small. If I go I'll be sure to post results afterward. Any suggestions, should I stay or should I go?
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Some thoughts - I have considered removing Homing sliver from the sideboard and replace it with something else.
I am not running Relics in the sideboard at the moment, so I am glad that they are working for you.
I would try to squeeze in a second Warping Wail and/or Telekinetic Sliver. I think Warping Wail is going to be more relevant to deal with Counters Company, Gifts Storm, Titanshift, and All is Dust as well as other random sorcery cards.
Striking Sliver may not be that relevant to our discussion as sentinel sliver may provide you more options.
I have also considered going down to 1 life gainer in the main and 3 in the side.
These are just some thoughts. I find your Blood Crypt for Mutavault interesting, but it is something that I can't see myself doing although I did like the Urborg in the one list.
I think overall it is a fine list. Your differences highlight different concerns and strategies and your answer to them. It isn't bad just different. I look forward to your results.
Why have some Slivers list been sideboarding Chameleon Colossus?
What exactly is the Warping Wail doing against the G/W counters deck?
Why have some Slivers lists been sideboarding Mindlash Sliver?
Why are you guys running so many lifegain Slivers?
2. Warping Wail exiles mana dorks and devoted druid.
3. Mindlash Sliver provides a good effect against combo decks like Storm, Ad Nausuem, and provides value against heavy removal decks. It generally isn't one of the first slivers you play, but if one of the last can make sure the combo deck can't go off or can remove cards that are in hand.
4. Burn is popular and having more pieces can help. 2 Darkhearts make sense in a heavy removal enviornment and against Living End. Syphon Sliver can be good against non-combo aggro decks like Merfolk, Zoo, Jeskai Geist or Jeskai Prowess, Affinity, Taxes deck,
Check it out... another top 8.
I kind of like the 2 Chalice in the side.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Chalice is best for decks like Death's Shadow, Living End, Burn, Lantern Control, Storm (at 2), etc.
It might improve our Death's Shadow matchup, but I think Chameleon Colossus could do it as well as apply to other decks. It also doesn't stop kologhan's command, but it could buy us several turns to get ahead though.
However, the biggest flaw to chalice in Modern Slivers is that it doesn't stop enough game plans and we can't generally afford to take our turn 2 or 4 off casting especially against burn who run now more 2 mana spells as boros.
The descendant's paths are interesting for Control/Midrange decks (althoguh I feel they have answers for it and it is slow. However, it is an interesting out of the box option that we might want to look into similar answers to get card advantage.
GHardened Steel
WUBRG Slivers
U Merfolk
Legacy
G Hardened Steel
GUWB Counter Slivers
UMerfolk
CG Eldrazi
Commander
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Overlord
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Maybe Dominaria or M25 will have new slivers for us.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
I made this deck in the past but havn't tested it, I'm not much of the countermagic type and only play FNMs at a small local store, so I don't know if those counters are the best, I took them from the tier control decks, but if anyone's up to test a modern CounterSlivers I'd like to read of it's results...
My deck was something like this:
4 Diffusion Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
Artifact 4
4 Aether Vial
Instant 10
1 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Sleight of Hand
Land 22
2 Breeding Pool
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
3 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Plains
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Negate
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Remand
2 Spellskite
1 Warping Wail
WUBRG Pauper Slivers
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
I went 2-3.
I beat Affinity twice, and lost to Merfolk, U/R Breach Tron, and Lantern Control.
3-2 record, 12th place.
Round 1, 1-2 vs living end. Made a mistake in game 3 that really cost me. Failed to float a regeneration shield onto my sedge when he fulminator maged my only swamp. Ended up costing me the match.
Round 2, 0-2 vs gifts storm. Really starting to hate this matchup. Got my opponent to 1 life in game 2 before he combo'd off. He killed on my turn 3 in game 1.
Round 3, 2-1 vs abzan midrange. Wasn't too memorable, don't remember much from the match other than my opponent keeping in leylines of sanctity in games 2 and 3.
Round 4, 2-1 vs devoted elves. Got craterhoofed in game 1, really thought there was a chance until the behemoth dropped. Won games 2 and 3 without much opposition. Dismembered a turn 1 llanowar elf in game 3 to set him way behind.
Round 5, 2-0 vs titan shift. Guy was splashing white for paths and sideboard cards. He saved himself damage by pathing blur slivers each game but he couldn't handle the slivers. Game 2, a warping wail countered his scape shift.
Really got off to a crappy start, had i seen a dark heart in round 1 it'd have been as different event. Really hate storm! Wish we had an easier way to play chalice for the storm matchup. Three additional warping wail worked really well.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
I saw a pro stream slivers on Twitter and was playing it differently than I would. I am going to need to review those games and his Necrotic Sliver play as it seems very interesting and probably better. I think it was Shawn Maclaren so his videos might be up on Twitch.
The deck's focus is on Root Maze to deplete the opponent's early mana base.
4 Diffusion Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
2 Gemhide Sliver
2 Megantic Sliver
1 Venom Sliver
1 Cautery Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Lead the Stampede
3 Faithless Looting
4 Early Frost
4 Reduce // Rubble
4 Sleep
4 Crumbling Vestige
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Mana Confluence
4 City of Brass
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Forest
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Spell Pierce
2 Ghostflame Sliver
The list is a work in progress and the sideboard is a bit generic, but I'm more worried about the consistency and speed of the main deck now.
Since most decks in Tier 1 uses fetches, if not all of them, and generally a "keepable hand" with those decks consist of possibly 2 fetches, when they are goldfishing, a turn 1 Root Maze could deprive them from mana until their 3rd turn. With some spells that help complement this strategy like Early Frost (on the opponent upkeep) and probably Reduce // Rubble, it would be possible to keep the opponent completely out of the whole game while sliver beating them. Decks that don't use fetches usually play with some amount of artifacts which could be delayed with Root Maze as well.
Other card that play an important whole here is Diffusion Sliver, which with the Maze is capable of keeping his ability relevant for enough time to close the game.
Of course, Root Maze would make your lands come into play tapped, but since there is Crumbling Vestige I start thinking that maybe it could be mitigated to the point where it wouldn't matter as much as it would for the other side of the table.
In order to help casting spells, I was using previously Hidden Strings so then I could even cast a Megantic Sliver early without a Gemhide Sliver out. Worked well with Simic Growth Chamber, but it seemed to be increasing the my mulligan rate.
This list has become quite thigh, that's why I'm with Megantic Sliver. With this Sliver out and any other sliver, you got a 2 turn clock. If I manage to make it stick with the list (and cast it), it would be very space saving.
Another idea would be using a set of Virulent Sliver main deck. It wound help the early game after playing Root Maze, so then I wouldn't rely on Crumbling Vestige that much and have an alternative win condition in case I can't find Megantic.
This deck is an idea that I would like to become a possible competitive counterpart of slivers in Modern. And since it's build around a specific strategy against the meta, it could be considered a Counter Sliver
The previous version can be find here:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/maze-hooks/
This list need to be faster.
Ideas?
I went 1-4 in my first MTGO competitive league. I lost to B/W Eldrazi Taxes, E-Tron, Elves, and U/W Control. I beat G/B Rock.
I can't really measure some of these matches as I made many misclicks or didn't click at all with Vial, Mutavault, and Necrotic Sliver (destroy my own lands). I also timed out twice against B/W Eldrazi taxes where I could have turned the corner and against U/W Control where I had the win (i would have won on my turn as he was tapped out.
I can't really say anything to that. A lot of it was my own mistakes and misclicks. It was my fault.
Red XIII
I am going to try to help you with your brew. I am not a fan of this list as I don't think you provide enough threat to win off of your tempo game considering that most removal is at instant speed and eventually they will have the mana to deal with your creatures and ultimately 2 threats (magantic sliver just isn't enough)
Also, tapping lands isn't all that great when you are trying to disrupt some decks. Destroying lands and killing creatues is where you want to be. I would go with 8 traditional lords to help speed up your tempo.
If you are playing blue, you might prefer counter spells in addition to root maze. You don't have a quick enough clock or engine in my opinion. You will want traditional lords to speed up your aggro plan as well as counter spells to ensure that instant speed effects don't cripple you.
You could look at Taking Turns for a similiar strategy and adopt some of their cards like exhaustion. If you want more effects. You could look at Dormant Sliver. It would continue to help you draw your non-sliver disruption cards.
I would build something that provides you mana, telekinetic sliver, cheap slivers to use with TK sliver, disruption in the form of paths and counter back up, a sac outlet sliver and Sliver Legion/Sliver Hivelord.
You may want a back up aggressive plan. I am not saying abandon Root Maze, but realize that you need a quicker clock that you are presenting as some decks like Ad Nausuem can go off at instant speed or run on such a low curve that eventually root maze is useless sooner than you can put megantic sliver on the battlefield like Grixis Death Shadow. You also have Valakut decks which your tempo plan won't do it as all they need is enough land drops. This is where the Traditional Lords come in
So, lets brew
I am not sure how budget you are though, so this might be expensive. I would stick to bant colors rather than temur though.
4 Diffusion Sliver
2 Gemhide Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
2 Dormant Sliver
2 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sliver Hivelord
2 Darkheart Sliver
4 Counter Spells
4 Root Maze
Sliver Hivelord/Sliver Legion can always be substituded for Homing Sliver/Darkheart or other Sac outlet for dormant sliver. The key is getting telekinetic into play more than playing tempo spells.
Telekinetic Sliver is going to be ultimately better for you then those spells, but you need a mass of slivers to make them work. Screeching Sliver could also be very good as a 1 drop mill effect or Mindlash Sliver as a 1 drop discard effect.
You will need more than 1 or 2 sac outlets if you are playing with Dormant Sliver which I would recommend in any prison sliver strategy which you seem to be more aiming to. I would also see if I could Necrotic Sliver and Sliver Hive as well to aid in that. There is a reason Ponza doesn't play Temur with Exhaustion and those type effects. It is better to remove the land then keep it. You might not need a traditional lords if you want to play with Sliver Legion and Necrotic Sliver.
I could imagine a deck that plays to Necrotic Sliver, Mana Slivers, Telekinetic Sliver, Sedge Sliver, Sliver Legion, Sliver Hivelord and Aether Vial. Root Maze could help so could Diffusion Sliver
29 Creatures
4 Diffusion Sliver
4 Necrotic Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sliver Hivelord
2 Blur Sliver
3 Telekinetic Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
2 Mindlash Sliver
8 Mana Slivers
X Number of Spells
4 Aether Vial
X Kill/Counters
22-24 Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Sliver Hive
14-16 Other Lands (mutavault should be here as well)
The sedge is mostly for regeneration to save your creatures and provide some beat down.
Thanks for the reply.
I know, the clock isn't fast enough as is.
The idea was that "eventually" wouldn't be fast enough for the opponent to wait for their answers. and as they find them, they would be met with a counter. That's one of the reasons I thought it should be more tempo oriented than control.
I don't want this deck to be a prison deck that goes on and on for turns. I rather end it at most until the 7th turn. That basically why I try to consider it as a tempo deck more than a control one. Well, at least control is not how I intend for it to be.
I may not need traditional lords if I got a legion alike and a necrotic alike, like you said. That would be the Megantic and the Telekinetic respectively.
Sliver Legion and Megantic Sliver deals the same amount of damage when paired with another 1/1 sliver. It's one more mana, but it makes both evade Anger of the Gods/Sweltering Suns/Slagstorm.
I just keep writing about a 2 sliver in the battlefield setup because I agree with you that there will be a lot of removal against the deck. So if I manage to build it around that minimum, then I think it wouldn't be a problem with a mass of slivers.
Remove the lands is better than keeping (and tapping) them. got it. I think the same, but it will make the game go too long for me to control. Land destruction spells tend to be expensive (mana wise). or you pay it with mana (stone rain) or with your own permanents (boom//bust, smallpox, crack the earth). I built a Ponza like deck for a friend of mine and I'm building a dega/mardu pox with mentioned cards above. I don't think that it's the way for this deck, so I considered a strategy that would deny thier mana as well but not rely on many heavy spells (3cc) which would require me to ramp into nor double edge effects.
Diffusion Sliver can hold on for only so much. I would like the diffusion to be as relevant as possible, so the solution I came up with was tapping lands and/or keep tapped and I realized that it would need some light counter at least for certain situations, but as the deck was, I was not such how to make it fit in the list. It will probably need some number of filtering to find them as well.
I very much agree with the Taking Turns analogy, I was actually considering that deck as reference for my build. That deck plays similarly before it start taking turns.
I also agree with the possible aggro plan if needed. One of the first version of this build, I was using Blur Sliver and Firewake Sliver which sac ability was quite relevant.
I do realize the deck needs to be faster, I even wrote it at the end of my first comment. I was running Hidden Strings to untap my lands at some point, but I end up with that list considering removals and the space left.
The other problem I see with my list is that it requires too many spells in a specific sequence in order for it to work.
The way it is, it's hard to set such a sequence even with numbers of filter/cantrips. This list progressed alot since my first version months ago, starting with Monastery Siege as Diffusion Slivers 5-8 to a list that at times can completely lock the opponent out of the game by turn 6. "at times" is not good enough, but the Siege can be good against burn though.
I used to have a list with the same ideas you provided, back in 2007. It was only UG though and ended the game with either Screeching Sliver, Virulent Sliver or Psionic Sliver. It had the same idea of the "Opposition Slivers" backed up with counters. But it's very control oriented.
I don't want you to think I'm disregarding the deck lists you provided some how. It's just that I had already built something like that in the past and it was too much of a control list.
I'm starting to reconsider my old Mardu Sliver deck though.
It used to work in my meta.
Maybe with No rest for the Wicked and Basal Sliver, a big spell...
Well, anyway.
Sorry for the long post and thanks the help.
Affinity, Slivers, TurboFog
Standard
R/B Aggro
Slivers can grind as well as be aggressive.
Diffusion Sliver, Sedge Sliver, Frenetic Sliver, Sliver Hivelord with a dash of Mindlash Sliver, Cautery Sliver, and Darkheart sliver are our best protection spells. The last 3 are for providing some value for their removal, the first four can make their mana difficult.
Warping Wail does eliminate Dark Confident and Damnation which they will probably play. Chameleon Colossus is probably one of our best Beaters in this matchup.
It will depend on what they have, and might need to start aggressive but prepared to play a more tempo game with Necrotic Sliver, Sedge Sliver etc.
You could shave aether vials on the draw for more slivers and then bring them back in on the play if you win a game. Merfolk does this.
Dismembers could also be good kill spells.
I think the key will be to recognize or guess the strategy they will go for and whether or not Damnation is in their hand for over extending reasons.
With it we can have around 10-12 lands that suits well along our slivers. As we have slivers that produces mana of any color, we normally don't struggle with colored spells such as collected company.
I use to play with 20 lands, so I think that 10 all-colored mana would be fine, along with 5 fetches and shocks/basic lands.
I am thinking you might want to drop CoCo all together and rely more on Small Slivers and Vial for a straight up stompy/aggro plan ala pauper slivers or legacy all-in slivers. Sedge Sliver is a house, but I wouldn't play him while also playing Unclaimed Territory. Mutavault is too valuable to give up as well are chances for the forest and swamp in the current lists.
I think if you want to play with Unclaimed Territory you should take inspriation from the All-In Legacy Sliver lists, the Pauper Sliver lists, and the Modern Fast Sliver lists. They are all viable, but have clear weaknesses which might make it worse for competitive modern play that the current Sedge Sliver lists can work around.
Sedge Sliver lists can grind better than these lists. The classic Aggressive lists can be better though against minimum disruption lists and other aggro lists. Losing CoCo hurts against our explosiveness, combat tricks, and recovery. Fast Lists though are better and more consistant at goldfishing turn 3-5 wins, but have worse recovery. The more non-sliver spells you add such as Vial, Dismember, Warping Wail, the less concentration of slivers you will have when you draw. Its a trade off.
I am not sure its worth it, but in the last few pages there were lists and look at them, improve them, play with them, and see what happens. I eagerly await testing.
If thats not what you are asking for
Dont play Leylines, play 2 Relic of Progenitus
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers