My first thoughts are that aether vial I find to be absolutely crucial to the deck and winning fast and sometimes winning at all. There are many times where a vialed manaweft or blur sliver or just another lord was what saved the day. I think you underestimate the amount of tempo we can gain by casting multiple slivers in a turn. One of the crucial things that i have found is that aether vial allows you to play a 5 color deck better than any alternative even when choked on land or blood mooned.. It isn't a great top deck.
Land base is kinda screwed, I think. I think you would want a basic swamp rather than a basic island. Worship/Path to Exile seems odd seeing that you have only 1 land to cast it although the 6 mana mana slivers can help. If you need a red land, it probably should be Blood Crypt. If you need a blue land, it should be Watery Grave. Swamps are very important to Sedge. Misty Rainforest is probably the wrong fetchland, I would probably want a Windswept Heath or Marsh Flats.
Did you bring in your Relics during the Jund Matchup? They help significantly I found for tarmogoyfs as well as cantrips. It is one of the reasons Merfolk bring them in.
I am not sure I like the 4 adaptive automatons. However, if they work for you
You are right, Vial can be a huge tempo advantage, though as you also said, it is a really bad topdeck. For the Vial to be good you have to have it in the opening hand. In order to ensure we have it in the opening hand a relevant number of times it has to be run as a 4-of. As such it is highly probable we draw it again in a later phase, when an extra vial has no influence anymore since either with or without vial we are in topdeck mode usually by turn 4 or 5. It is also not like merfolk where using vial let's them keep mana open for counterspells. Thus I would rather run a couple more slivers in the deck than run a chance of having vials in hand or on the board that don't contribute to the boardstate.
I see your point. I run basic Islands to be able to cast Frenetic in case of a Blood moon. Though now that I think about it, with the amount of mana slivers and a basic forest I should be able to cast anything most of the times, and then it is better to have a swamp available for sedge slivers. I will probably change the misty rainforest for a windswept heath then too.
Worship/Path to Exile seems odd seeing that you have only 1 land to cast it
That's true, though with 5 Fetches, that each can each fetch that 1 source I should be able to cast it reliably even without any mana sliver online. Though in all the playtests I never was enough mana screwed that I couldn't cast any of those spells. Path to exile helps against jund kalitas and strong goyfs as well as thing in ice zoo. Both of which are my hardest match-ups in my meta.
They are another lord, that benefit from all the sliver buffs themselves as well. Though I get that they are slow on 3 cmc. I might exchange one for a third sentinel sliver as vigilance really helps my gameplan along.
I would want to keep Aether Vial on the whole. The complete difference in explosiveness a hand with it and without it can make is sure to tell me that vial is necessary in a lot of the matchups especially if we have some spell disruption like dismember/warping wail/collected company as well. Like Merfolk, we need vial to be able to compete i think and be as fast or at least as unexpected. A vialed necrotic sliver on turn 4 could mean the difference. a vialed manaweft causing a collected company matters a lot.
I think if we tried Chalice, it should be a 4 of in the sideboard. I might consider a chalice build in my next sliver matchup or at least when i get more slivers.
I really doubt people are bringing in surgical extraction against us. Maelstrom pulse can be an issue. However, I play manaweft incase of the rare mirror and mutavaults and i don't have gemhides. Manawefts are generally strictly better than Gemhides as it only effects our creatures.
I really doubt people are bringing in surgical extraction against us. Maelstrom pulse can be an issue. However, I play manaweft incase of the rare mirror and mutavaults and i don't have gemhides. Manawefts are generally strictly better than Gemhides as it only effects our creatures.
I have run into a mirror and basically the first person to play an old sliver loses. In my local meta there are a couple merfolk decks, so I avoid gemhides for the same reason, if they are short on blue sources I dont want my gemhide to help them out by turning their mutavault into a blue source.
It could also come from other mutavaults and cavern of souls which has happened that i need a blue to get vapor snag or a counterspell and only had caverns and mutavaults.
FNM report
Played the Fast Sliver variant discussed several pages ago... will post list if someone asks. So I decided to give it a try. LGS limits Modern to 4 rounds, so here was the results.
Round 1: R/G Titan Shift - 2-0. Opponent saw no interaction, No bolts, No burn of any kind. Killed him turn 4 game 1 with poison. Turn 5 game 2 with normal damage.
Round 2: Mardu Nahiri - 0-2. Got opponent to 2 before he stabilized in game 1, once stabilized he emrakul'd me. Game 2 was Kalitas all the way.
Round 3: G/W Tokens - 1-2. Very good match... all 3 games went right down to the wire. In game 3 damage from mana confluence did me in.
Round 4: Burn - 2-0. ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!!! Game 1, killed on turn 3 with poison... T1, land, virulent. T2, land, galerider, virulent, swing 1 damage, 2 poison. T3, land, virulent, swing 3 damage, 9 poison. Game 2 won with life gain.
It felt quite competitive in matches without much interaction, however, any set backs were near fatal.
Yes decklist would be nice.
If set backs were near fatal, then how did you manage to bring mardu to 2, provided mardu is all about removal?)
I will expand on later, but I top 8 a Modern 1k with Slivers. I used the exact same build that I used on friday, the chalice build. I lost to Burn, beat Naya Company, beat U/W control, beat Infect, beat Burn, ided into top 8, and lost to the same 5th round burn player in Quarters.
Quick thought, Chalice wasn't worth it in my opinion. I brought it in against Infect and Burn and lost the games that I had it against burn and never saw it in Infect. I went 4-6 against burn on Saturday. I would have rather had a Syphon Sliver along with my 2 dark hearts in the side.
I went to last Saturday a 37 man modern 1k in Reading, PA. I played the sliver list that I posted above with 4 chalice of the void.
Round 1 - Burn
Game 1 - I won this game just by outgrinding my opponent. I cast slivers and had an aether vial to sneak in any slivers that I could. There wasn't really any thought here other than chumping until my creatures are better than his. I think I even did a Sliver hive token here the game ran so long.
Game 2 - I lost this game. I played chalice and that kept him at bay for awhile, but I forgot the trigger for a grim lavamancer. I might have been able to kill him if he hadn't drawn anything, but I was at 2 life and hoping he didn't have any of his 2 mana kill spells.
Game 3 - Chalice wasn't enough and he overran me with burn and creatures.
Round 2 - Naya Compan
Game 1 - This stalled out. I couldn't attack profitably into his guys and make sure i could live in the attack back. I had out 1 Sedge Sliver, a couple of mana slivers, a diffusion sliver, and striking sliver. He was kinda stuck on land while i was flooding out a bit enough that with my creatues and my lands I was able to start generating 2 Sliver Tokens a turn. I top decked a galerider and it was game over.
Game 2 - I didn't have a lot of high toughness creatures and he found 1 Qasali Pridemage and 3 Noble Heirarchs with a Kessig Wolf Run. 1 big creature and I couldn't block profitably to establish a board state.
Game 3 - I had a better curve and creature list with company. I won.
Round 3 - U/W Control
Game 1 - This game was also incrediably long and grindy. I think he flooded it out and a couple darkheart slivers and a necrotic sliver doing work to remove 2 for 1s and collonades to keep my life total up. I eventually widdled him down through several blessed alliances, counter spells, and paths. I nursed 3 collected companies in my hand until I felt he had exhausted his counter spells on some of my slivers. I cast them in turn succession and just established too much of a board state for him to come back on.
Game 2 - He suspended 2 Ancestral Visions, apparently found nothing with them and supreme verdict when had 5 land. It looks like he had a bunch of removal in hand when i had a galerider sliver, 2 diffusion slivers on the field at the time and a vial on 3. I vialed in a frenetic sliver, won the toss on all 4 creatures including the frenetic. End of turn coco only to have it be dispelled, but i had a second coco on my phase and chose a blur, and sinew to go with my draw step card which was another blur. This was exact damage to win.
Game 4 - Infect
Game 1 - I think he was an inexperienced infect player. I had a glistener elf that i was able to chump, until a company found a venom sliver and a lord. I won through beat down damage.
Game 2 - He pithing needled my vial on turn 2 which was super super good. I had a cautery sliver, necrotic sliver, and i think a lord or two that would have made quick work of him. He found what he needed in blighted agent and killed me quickly. I never found enough land to cast a lot of my stuff. I think i was mana screwed as I never found the a Sliver land to help cast things.
Game 3 - I eventually got him while he stalled out with my spellskite on the field. Cautery Sliver did work, Venom and Striking Sliver did work. Galerider Sliver did work.
Game 5 - Burn
Game 1 - I had a vial and a mutavault start and he had double Eidolon. I won by being patient, making efficient trades, and cocoing into a darkheart sliver. He thought he knew what I was on with mutavault/aether vial.
Games 2 and 3 - These were intense grindy games and I don't remember much of them. I remember winning game 3 off a mistake he made, but I also made some mistakes when it comes to sacrificing creatueres. I think I won by keeping my Darkheart alive and just trading or chumping with my other creatures until a top decked mutavault allowed me to continue.
TOP 8 quarters - my round 5 burn opponent.
Game 1 - I had won on the back of CoCo and creatures.
Game 2 - He played a Grafdigger's cage and I had 3 drawn coco's
Game 3 - This was a short game when I kept a sketchy seven with 2 galerider, a striking sliver, a couple land, a 1 coco, and a sedge sliver. I drew my 2 galerider slivers and not enough land and no green source.
Everytime I played a chalice against burn, they had the destructive revelry or it didn't do enough for me to win the game. Since Slivers can't cheat the Chalice on Turn 1, both burn players always had 1 or 2 creatures that I couldn't deal with because i had no established board presence. While I could have made better mulliganing decisions especially concerning the final game against burn. I just wish I had more slivers to draw than chalice of the void. I don't think it works in slivers as we just want more board presence.
Striking Sliver and Venom Sliver did their jobs in respective matches. I wish I had more striking slivers than venom, but they were fine as 1 ofs and helped me win several matchups including against burn and naya company.
I love this deck and I look forward to playing it again.
However, I am going to try a werewolf style prison deck next. I would keep my main sixty and just switch out my caverns for 1 syphon sliver, 1 spellskite, 1 mindlash sliver, and a third harmonic sliver. I am not sure about mindlash sliver. It could be a 3rd spellskite, a bonesythe sliver, or a second warping wail.
Caverns make it easier, but a comprehensive fetch shock base could also work or mana confluence or ancient ziggurat. Sadly though, it won't play as well and that hurts the deck more than other choices
The new paradox engine might be interesting. I don't think it really has a place here unless we go a heavy tap sliver effecting base.
However, a far more interesting choice is [Gemstone Cavern] at least as a 1 of. 21st land or replacing Mutavault, Sliver Hive, or Cavern. To help with fast mana situations.
I am not sure. It is good in your opening hand, but what as a flex spot does it take the spot of? I would rather have a sliver lord because it buffs the creatures immediately rather than future creatures.
Maybe allies or shamans, but I can't see it being used for Elves, Merfolk or Slivers. There is essentially little room for something as this. All three of those tribal decks would prefer their creatures bring utility immediately.
Try it though, it could be good.
I think though it would just replace some of the utility creature flex spots in the main rather than as a 4 of.
The above list is my core. I have 5 slots to play to the metagame including Dismembers, Warping Wails, Spellskites, First Strike Slivers, Deathtouch Slivers, Healing Balm Slivers, Lifelink Slivers, or more Mana Slivers.
For those 5 Slots there is a lot or a little utility.
I like 2 Darkheart Slivers, 1 Spellskite, 1 Striking, 1 Venom.
What would recommend to replace with mimic? I could replace the Striking Venom and just try to lord them out. I have generally been happy to play Striking because it makes attacking and blocking trickier. I am less happy with venom. I might go 2 striking slivers, 1 mimic in the main and try to put venom in the side against creature based matchups.
I think their are fringe tribes this works well with.
Allies - maybe
Humans - same reason as warriors
Warriors - especially combined with bramble wood paragon, Champion, and thalia
Shamans - might make great use of it
Minotaurs for fringe of the fringe. They need a two slot and this means that their 3 slots are out of bolt range.
Elves, Merfolk, Eldrazi, Rats, Slivers just have tight lists or other agenda where they don't need it.
I think metallic mimc can work, but in the sense that it lets us cut white out of our deck. Really only reason we run white are for necrotic sliver and Sinew Sliver. If we consider metallic a possible replacement for sinew we could run fetch lands and 4 color with dual lands that give you black so that we could main deck inquisition/thoughtsieze. You could even look to cut sedge and run Automation instead. Then we could just run Green/blue/red allowing us run things like spell pierce, bolt. I'm not saying any of these are better, but gives us more options especially if meta game shifts and we have to have hand disruption/counter spells etc.
To do that and reliably cast colored spells outside green, we would need to cult mutavaults and/or slivers hives for a more painful land base. We would also probably need to cut slivers for those spells and that weakens coco and vial.
I am not saying it can't be done, but at that point you might want to look at a more combo oriented sliver builds with Dormant sliver.
I just think such options while powerful in other strategies fail in modern slivers. It might work better if we had crystalline and hibernation which allows the counter sliver in legacy along with force of will. Modern doesn't have a lot of those options. You can cut white from the mana base already and not run godless shrine for a second overgrown tomb.
A rug sliver list would probably be the Dormant sliver type lists.
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Land base is kinda screwed, I think. I think you would want a basic swamp rather than a basic island. Worship/Path to Exile seems odd seeing that you have only 1 land to cast it although the 6 mana mana slivers can help. If you need a red land, it probably should be Blood Crypt. If you need a blue land, it should be Watery Grave. Swamps are very important to Sedge. Misty Rainforest is probably the wrong fetchland, I would probably want a Windswept Heath or Marsh Flats.
Did you bring in your Relics during the Jund Matchup? They help significantly I found for tarmogoyfs as well as cantrips. It is one of the reasons Merfolk bring them in.
I am not sure I like the 4 adaptive automatons. However, if they work for you
I see your point. I run basic Islands to be able to cast Frenetic in case of a Blood moon. Though now that I think about it, with the amount of mana slivers and a basic forest I should be able to cast anything most of the times, and then it is better to have a swamp available for sedge slivers. I will probably change the misty rainforest for a windswept heath then too.
That's true, though with 5 Fetches, that each can each fetch that 1 source I should be able to cast it reliably even without any mana sliver online. Though in all the playtests I never was enough mana screwed that I couldn't cast any of those spells. Path to exile helps against jund kalitas and strong goyfs as well as thing in ice zoo. Both of which are my hardest match-ups in my meta.
They are another lord, that benefit from all the sliver buffs themselves as well. Though I get that they are slow on 3 cmc. I might exchange one for a third sentinel sliver as vigilance really helps my gameplan along.
and I forgot to put Frenetic Slivers in my sideboard. I will figure out something with my current list.
Landbase is
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Sliver Hive
4x Mutavault
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
I think if we tried Chalice, it should be a 4 of in the sideboard. I might consider a chalice build in my next sliver matchup or at least when i get more slivers.
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Sliver Hive
4 Mutavault
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Galerider Sliver
1 Striking Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Diffusion Sliver
2 Darkheart Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Venom Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
2 Necrotic Sliver
2 Blur Sliver
4 Collected Company
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Harmonic Sliver
2 Frenetic Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
1 Sliver Hivelord
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Spellskite
1 Telekinetic Sliver
I am not sold on the second Warping Wail. I might go Bonesycthe Sliver or Screeching Sliver or Mindlash Sliver in that slot.
In your deck, any special reason you play 4 manaweft sliver instead of 2 gemhide sliver and 2 manaweft sliver? I see no reason not to play 2 and 2 as it helps against cards like surgical extraction and maelstrom pulse.
I have run into a mirror and basically the first person to play an old sliver loses. In my local meta there are a couple merfolk decks, so I avoid gemhides for the same reason, if they are short on blue sources I dont want my gemhide to help them out by turning their mutavault into a blue source.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=110164
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
If set backs were near fatal, then how did you manage to bring mardu to 2, provided mardu is all about removal?)
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
4 sidewinder sliver
4 virulent sliver
4 predatory sliver
4 sinew sliver
4 leeching sliver
4 adaptive automaton
2 blur sliver
3 spined sliver
2 mutagenic growth
4 cavern of souls
4 ancient ziggurat
4 mana confluence
1 forest
4 sliver hive
Missing a few things but this is what I can remember off the top of my head.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Quick thought, Chalice wasn't worth it in my opinion. I brought it in against Infect and Burn and lost the games that I had it against burn and never saw it in Infect. I went 4-6 against burn on Saturday. I would have rather had a Syphon Sliver along with my 2 dark hearts in the side.
Round 1 - Burn
Game 1 - I won this game just by outgrinding my opponent. I cast slivers and had an aether vial to sneak in any slivers that I could. There wasn't really any thought here other than chumping until my creatures are better than his. I think I even did a Sliver hive token here the game ran so long.
Game 2 - I lost this game. I played chalice and that kept him at bay for awhile, but I forgot the trigger for a grim lavamancer. I might have been able to kill him if he hadn't drawn anything, but I was at 2 life and hoping he didn't have any of his 2 mana kill spells.
Game 3 - Chalice wasn't enough and he overran me with burn and creatures.
Round 2 - Naya Compan
Game 1 - This stalled out. I couldn't attack profitably into his guys and make sure i could live in the attack back. I had out 1 Sedge Sliver, a couple of mana slivers, a diffusion sliver, and striking sliver. He was kinda stuck on land while i was flooding out a bit enough that with my creatues and my lands I was able to start generating 2 Sliver Tokens a turn. I top decked a galerider and it was game over.
Game 2 - I didn't have a lot of high toughness creatures and he found 1 Qasali Pridemage and 3 Noble Heirarchs with a Kessig Wolf Run. 1 big creature and I couldn't block profitably to establish a board state.
Game 3 - I had a better curve and creature list with company. I won.
Round 3 - U/W Control
Game 1 - This game was also incrediably long and grindy. I think he flooded it out and a couple darkheart slivers and a necrotic sliver doing work to remove 2 for 1s and collonades to keep my life total up. I eventually widdled him down through several blessed alliances, counter spells, and paths. I nursed 3 collected companies in my hand until I felt he had exhausted his counter spells on some of my slivers. I cast them in turn succession and just established too much of a board state for him to come back on.
Game 2 - He suspended 2 Ancestral Visions, apparently found nothing with them and supreme verdict when had 5 land. It looks like he had a bunch of removal in hand when i had a galerider sliver, 2 diffusion slivers on the field at the time and a vial on 3. I vialed in a frenetic sliver, won the toss on all 4 creatures including the frenetic. End of turn coco only to have it be dispelled, but i had a second coco on my phase and chose a blur, and sinew to go with my draw step card which was another blur. This was exact damage to win.
Game 4 - Infect
Game 1 - I think he was an inexperienced infect player. I had a glistener elf that i was able to chump, until a company found a venom sliver and a lord. I won through beat down damage.
Game 2 - He pithing needled my vial on turn 2 which was super super good. I had a cautery sliver, necrotic sliver, and i think a lord or two that would have made quick work of him. He found what he needed in blighted agent and killed me quickly. I never found enough land to cast a lot of my stuff. I think i was mana screwed as I never found the a Sliver land to help cast things.
Game 3 - I eventually got him while he stalled out with my spellskite on the field. Cautery Sliver did work, Venom and Striking Sliver did work. Galerider Sliver did work.
Game 5 - Burn
Game 1 - I had a vial and a mutavault start and he had double Eidolon. I won by being patient, making efficient trades, and cocoing into a darkheart sliver. He thought he knew what I was on with mutavault/aether vial.
Games 2 and 3 - These were intense grindy games and I don't remember much of them. I remember winning game 3 off a mistake he made, but I also made some mistakes when it comes to sacrificing creatueres. I think I won by keeping my Darkheart alive and just trading or chumping with my other creatures until a top decked mutavault allowed me to continue.
TOP 8 quarters - my round 5 burn opponent.
Game 1 - I had won on the back of CoCo and creatures.
Game 2 - He played a Grafdigger's cage and I had 3 drawn coco's
Game 3 - This was a short game when I kept a sketchy seven with 2 galerider, a striking sliver, a couple land, a 1 coco, and a sedge sliver. I drew my 2 galerider slivers and not enough land and no green source.
Everytime I played a chalice against burn, they had the destructive revelry or it didn't do enough for me to win the game. Since Slivers can't cheat the Chalice on Turn 1, both burn players always had 1 or 2 creatures that I couldn't deal with because i had no established board presence. While I could have made better mulliganing decisions especially concerning the final game against burn. I just wish I had more slivers to draw than chalice of the void. I don't think it works in slivers as we just want more board presence.
Striking Sliver and Venom Sliver did their jobs in respective matches. I wish I had more striking slivers than venom, but they were fine as 1 ofs and helped me win several matchups including against burn and naya company.
I love this deck and I look forward to playing it again.
However, I am going to try a werewolf style prison deck next. I would keep my main sixty and just switch out my caverns for 1 syphon sliver, 1 spellskite, 1 mindlash sliver, and a third harmonic sliver. I am not sure about mindlash sliver. It could be a 3rd spellskite, a bonesythe sliver, or a second warping wail.
But the mana base is incredebly exspensive when compared to most other decks in modern.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
However, a far more interesting choice is [Gemstone Cavern] at least as a 1 of. 21st land or replacing Mutavault, Sliver Hive, or Cavern. To help with fast mana situations.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Maybe allies or shamans, but I can't see it being used for Elves, Merfolk or Slivers. There is essentially little room for something as this. All three of those tribal decks would prefer their creatures bring utility immediately.
Try it though, it could be good.
I think though it would just replace some of the utility creature flex spots in the main rather than as a 4 of.
20 Lands
4 Vials
4 CoCo
12 Existing Lords
4 Flying
2 Haste
2 Vindicate
3 Counter-Targets
4 Mana
5 Slots to play with.
The above list is my core. I have 5 slots to play to the metagame including Dismembers, Warping Wails, Spellskites, First Strike Slivers, Deathtouch Slivers, Healing Balm Slivers, Lifelink Slivers, or more Mana Slivers.
For those 5 Slots there is a lot or a little utility.
I like 2 Darkheart Slivers, 1 Spellskite, 1 Striking, 1 Venom.
What would recommend to replace with mimic? I could replace the Striking Venom and just try to lord them out. I have generally been happy to play Striking because it makes attacking and blocking trickier. I am less happy with venom. I might go 2 striking slivers, 1 mimic in the main and try to put venom in the side against creature based matchups.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Allies - maybe
Humans - same reason as warriors
Warriors - especially combined with bramble wood paragon, Champion, and thalia
Shamans - might make great use of it
Minotaurs for fringe of the fringe. They need a two slot and this means that their 3 slots are out of bolt range.
Elves, Merfolk, Eldrazi, Rats, Slivers just have tight lists or other agenda where they don't need it.
I am not saying it can't be done, but at that point you might want to look at a more combo oriented sliver builds with Dormant sliver.
I just think such options while powerful in other strategies fail in modern slivers. It might work better if we had crystalline and hibernation which allows the counter sliver in legacy along with force of will. Modern doesn't have a lot of those options. You can cut white from the mana base already and not run godless shrine for a second overgrown tomb.
A rug sliver list would probably be the Dormant sliver type lists.