What do you guys side in and out vs a mirror or vs the BW-version(MTGGoldfish). I mean that both decks use Solemnity and we are then just handing out combo pieces to them, so do you side it out and not and what is the tactics in games like that?
You would be very unlucky to play a mirror, and if you did the odds of you having identical lists are low. Simply put, don't plan for it with sideboard cards, if you have any that work then great, but it is such a rare deck.
I would probably remove solemnity, but there is a good chance game 1 drags on over 50 mins, in which case boarding is not important.
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Chalice is never going to be sideboard slot in this or practically any deck, ever.
Decks that use it use it main deck and tend to set it to 1, because at 6 mana for countering 3cc things it is normally too late. Sometimes they get set to two, or three, but you would have to be playing Legacy to do it with any consistency. If you have specific cards you want to stop then put Nevermore/Gideon's intervention in the board, although I personally am not a huge fan of either they can at least keep specific things from being cast far more efficiently than Chalice. Cards like Finks/Messenger are not a threat, or should not be. A potential board card against those is Rest in Peace, at least if you are worried about them being blinked repeatedly from the bin in some fashion, RIP also nerfing a number of decks in the format. If you are worried about being beaten around the head with them - why? You should run some copies of Sphere of Safety, and them paying 6-20 to attack is not going to win them the game.
Solemnity and Unlife are bigger threats, in that with them both down you can't win with damage, only by decking, although Cast Out deals with either far more flexibly. Personally I would say aim at flexible cards that are useful in other matches. Nevermore/Intervention and Cast Out/Oring fitting the bill. If you want a specific card against a mirror sort of deck then you choices are limited to say the least- Enchantment destruction on both sides sounds weak. We run relatively few win cons, you may find a jester's cap/Memoricide effect works, but the issue is there are no good ones in white.
You would need a specific breakdown of their decklist in order to precisely establish a strategy for boarding. A card like Nahiri might enable you to munch through their key Enchantments, and again is a tournament quality card.
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Explosives is in the category of Cast Out/O ring etc. It is a fine card if you can hit 2-3 colors of mana easily. It is not the same as Nevermore/Mage effects, a case in point being Ad Nauseam, say, but in the examples you refer to it is.
Sphere is excellent. If you fill your early stuff with plenty of action then it is fine as 2-4 copies. At 4 you need to be running 2-3 Nykkthos and Leylines, Halo etc., and comes down in its own time.
Moon is fine without fetches, you need to be careful.
Nahiri really does have a nonbo effect with SF.
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Whats the consensus on Sunscour and Trinisphere and Approach of the Second Sun?
3 sphere is a board card for storm (or cascade heavy decks), at best. It is not the powerhouse it is in Legacy, so many spells cost 2 or 3 anyway, the taxing effect is not as good as it can be.
Have not tried Approach, don't see why it would not work in a fetch free build.
Sunscour costs too much, and we have good anti-aggro anyway. It is playable as a board card, perhaps, in a certain kind of meta, but not the average one, if there is such a thing.
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- Blood Moon is not good enought for this deck, because we have a slow race. I tried, but most of the time before we have a lot of angels, tron can have 7 lands to cast his spells and control have several basic lands.
I always avoid talking about Enduring Ideal in detail, as there is a thread for EI, some posters on this thread also contribute there and vice versa. We were discussing doing a new EI primer a while back, it would be nice to tie it in specifically with this, but the EI primer although old, is actually not too out of date. I do sometimes post the EI lists here though, it is a close cousin of the deck, the same prison and control essentially but with a different endgame.
I do disagree on Blood Moon, it is fine in the 75. It is not there to beat Tron by itself, it comes in with cards like Stony Silence and Rule of Law effects, the Moon stops the tron, the Stony and Rule of Law slow effect them down considerably- one spell a turn, no popping of mana filters with draw, no O stone either. Moon shuts off G often too unless they hit a basic forest.
They do get durdle to 7 lands but it takes a lot, lot longer- they have to draw the lands naturally in a low-ish land deck, with effectively no cantrips in the deck once Stony shuts down mana filters and Maps, and in the mean time them having tron but only having mountains is pretty strong for us, buying enough time to win.
Game one Moon is pretty mediocre, but so is any real Pillow-Fort playing a long game prison strategy against Tron.
Depends on your build.
Making sure you are not playing Enduring Ideal, it depends on your splash in particular.
Starfield is a good insta win against a deck that is open. E.g. A game 2 vs a Tron deck that you have slowed to a crawl with Stony/Eidolon effcts can be attacked for 15-20 for example, a Sigil would take a few turns by which time they may have hit what they need to get out.
Starfield can get the good stuff back and can help the deck inn two ways.
Heliod is good with nodes, but as a win con, its ok but vulnerable to Path. Without Nodes I would say forget it. 4 Nodes would make me run a Heliod, but I would avoid 4 nodes myself.
Lminarch ascension is ok as a win con as it can slip down v counterspells more easily than most, but there are not many decks that won't damage you early.
Assemble the Legion is really good with a red splash, it is defensive often but will overwhelm most decks in time.
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New win condition for this deck if phyrexian unlife + solemnity is on:
I am not sure. Certainly in a full unlife/solemnity build it may work, but it takes up a slot and does nothing for the harder matches. Might be better in an Enduring ideal list, it would need testing....
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I am a previous magic player who due to life is starting to work on modern again. Traditional I am a control player and mostly play grixis and UWR but enchantress has always been my pet deck. My current list Of Naya enchantress is as followed
Creatures
Herald of the Patheon x4
Courser of Kruphix x3
Eidolon of BLossoms X1
Enchantments
Ramp
Utopia Sprawl x4
Oath of Nissa x3
Don't die
Journey to Nowwhere x2
Banishing light X1
Oblivion ring X1
Cast out X1
Runed Halo x4
Ghostly Prison x3
Peace of Mind X1
Sphere of Safety X1
Phyrexian Unlife x2
Solonimity x2
Eventual kill them if they don't scoop
Starfeild of Nyx X1
Assemble the Legion X1
Form of the dragon X1
Dovescape X1
The reason most player hate my deck
Idyllic tutor X1
Enduring Ideal x2
Kor Firewalker x3 (this is only until i gets leyline of sanctity)
Suppression field x2
Stony silence x2
Rest In Peace x2
Never more x2
Greater URAMANCY X2
Story Circle X1
Open the Vaults X1
So first let's agrees the Elphants in the room:
1. Yes i run the enduring Ideals i love that card and this deck lets me play it
2. Its a 61 card deck which mathematically doesn't really change anything to a degree I'm concerned with
3. This is an update and still needs more testing
4. Please don't kill me for the creatures lol
That being said i play the great creature base along with the green enchants because getting sphere on the board was always my main game plan. They die some time and as long as it is a burn spell I'm ok with that cause they gained me like and got me some advantage. The Prison package is tuned for an older meta but i think it is still at least close. I originally had a single unlife but in Solenimty i went to 2. The form of the dragon and dovescape are the original win con and i may shift away if i like the unlife combo. I haven't played modern in a while and i know its fast and creature based so i hope yaw can help me tune this baby up so i can make people quit games before i kill them :). Thank you in advance and i hope everyone enjoys their evening.
I am a previous magic player who due to life is starting to work on modern again. Traditional I am a control player and mostly play grixis and UWR but enchantress has always been my pet deck. My current list Of Naya enchantress is as followed
Creatures
Herald of the Patheon x4
Courser of Kruphix x3
Eidolon of BLossoms X1
Enchantments
Ramp
Utopia Sprawl x4
Oath of Nissa x3
Don't die
Journey to Nowwhere x2
Banishing light X1
Oblivion ring X1
Cast out X1
Runed Halo x4
Ghostly Prison x3
Peace of Mind X1
Sphere of Safety X1
Phyrexian Unlife x2
Solonimity x2
Eventual kill them if they don't scoop
Starfeild of Nyx X1
Assemble the Legion X1
Form of the dragon X1
Dovescape X1
The reason most player hate my deck
Idyllic tutor X1
Enduring Ideal x2
Kor Firewalker x3 (this is only until i gets leyline of sanctity)
Suppression field x2
Stony silence x2
Rest In Peace x2
Never more x2
Greater URAMANCY X2
Story Circle X1
Open the Vaults X1
So first let's agrees the Elphants in the room:
1. Yes i run the enduring Ideals i love that card and this deck lets me play it
2. Its a 61 card deck which mathematically doesn't really change anything to a degree I'm concerned with
3. This is an update and still needs more testing
4. Please don't kill me for the creatures lol
That being said i play the great creature base along with the green enchants because getting sphere on the board was always my main game plan. They die some time and as long as it is a burn spell I'm ok with that cause they gained me like and got me some advantage. The Prison package is tuned for an older meta but i think it is still at least close. I originally had a single unlife but in Solenimty i went to 2. The form of the dragon and dovescape are the original win con and i may shift away if i like the unlife combo. I haven't played modern in a while and i know its fast and creature based so i hope yaw can help me tune this baby up so i can make people quit games before i kill them :). Thank you in advance and i hope everyone enjoys their evening.
A belated welcome to the thread- I have been super busy recently.
Don't worry if you include a few creatures, we are all friends here....
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Thank you since i have posted this i have had time to sift threw the thread and made some much needed updates! Reading what everyone else has been working on and their ideas has really given me the drive to really push the deck forward. One thing i was wondering is if running 2 unlife and 2 solinmity is ok if i have 2 idealics?
People run it to fetch up Mistveil plains in some builds, plains that is non basic but with the subtype "plains" . Alternatively it can fetch a shock for normal color fixing. Fetches don't work with Suppression Field, it is one method that does. Others use it if they run a Boom Bust or Obliterate type effect in the deck for screwing control decks. It is a minor consideration, you can run it without them.
I played a 3 round FNM last night.
It's the second one have done in a few weeks, have not lost a match with this deck for a while.
R1 was a very good player I know quite well with a penchant for good stuff decks.
Here he was on a mardu pyromancer build with souls, burn and discard.
He mentioned that he has seen a lot of pillow fort online as he knows my preferences for prison in Legacy, and I tell him I losned out the Stax ish landkill deck I was going to play, which normally he associates me with.
I win g1 off the back of T0 Leyline, Temple scry, T2 RIP, ghostly, karoo land, Sphere/sphere no 2.
He had a burning discard heavy hand and pyromancer/souls.
G2 repeated the dose of Leyline after a mull, he Thought seized himself to trigger double pyromancer and got me to 4. Then to 2.
I lock up the board with Sphere 2,Wear Tears take out enchantments... Form of the Dragon which would have reset my life to 5 and killed him in two, and Auramancy.
Eventually I lay Starfield, to get back the Auramancy, still hiding behind two Leylines, protecting my stuff from double kill with Eidolon of Rhetoric. The Eidolon stops him from the win he had in hand which would have had him kill both animated Leylines and then me. Once Auramancy comes back he scoops with 4 cards left in his library.
R2 I work out I am against grixis Death's Shadow. I lose G1 as I chose to tutor for Nodes rather than Stubborn Deniable Runed Halo with two D S down. He swings for 18 by thoughtsizeing himself and drawing a fetch into shock. I am on 17.
G2 my mull gets me action and on the play I play around Denial to land ghostly, halo, Leyline and sphere, for the scoop.
G3 Blood Moon wrecks him.
R3 I make my junk colored opponent
pay 60 odd to attack, he does not scoop. Hmmm. I throw a o ring to the bottom. He draws the 2/3 dude who sacs duress to Exile permanents. And wins as I fail to draw removal for what is his only out.
G2 takes 5 mins, I lay Blood Moon, he is ruined by it and my Luminarch Ascension and Assemble the Legion go nuts.
G3 we cannot find ish due to Legacy overlapping so we ID.
It has not changed much, but I can share it with you later when I am on a proper keyboard.
Please do! I just started playing this archetype and I'm having trouble finding a plurality of lists to show me what people have been trying. It seems like the list is highly in flux.
How good is idyllic tutor? I'm considering picking 1 or two up because my meta is full of weird jank cards and it could let me run more 1 of's in my SB.
I had a heartbreaking loss on tuesday vs. infect where I got stuck on 2 lands (kept a hand with 2 white sources + solemnity and got punished). I lost my match up against modern aetherworks marvel as well. Dealing with a deck that get's emrakul into play via both casting and putting directly into play seems almost impossible for this achetype to deal with. I don't want to warp my list around such an oddball, but man did that feel just unwinnable when I didn't get solemnity down early.
I had to play what I consider an incomplete list, as my aura masteries didn't come in the mail yet, so I'm hoping that helps with post board games and incidental mainboard enchantment removal. Should I just run them in the board if I don't think I'm going to be seeing abrupt decay in game 1?
Also, has anyone considered running 4x Simian spirit guide in the board for matchups where a large amount of our mainboard cards are dead? For instance, against a deck like infect, where my leylines (and unlifes) are dead and supression field feels really bad on the draw. Spirit guides let us get a potential turn 2 solemnity or ghostly prison when they probably aren't expecting it.
In games where single 3+ cmc lock pieces straight up win us the match, I could see taking them out in favor of basic plains or mistveils, as we really just want to stop their clocks from outracing us, so even if we take a few turns to recover and draw some land, perhaps it would be worth it? This could especially good if you know certain archetypes just don't exist in your meta.
Gideon seems like an interesting choice, not sure about running him in the main. He would be insane against decks with limited burn/creature threats though, and he acts as solemnity 5+ against infect until they kill him with hierarch.
I'm going to pick up two for my board and see if they do anything.
By the way, where did you find that list? Did it win something?
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You would be very unlucky to play a mirror, and if you did the odds of you having identical lists are low. Simply put, don't plan for it with sideboard cards, if you have any that work then great, but it is such a rare deck.
I would probably remove solemnity, but there is a good chance game 1 drags on over 50 mins, in which case boarding is not important.
Decks that use it use it main deck and tend to set it to 1, because at 6 mana for countering 3cc things it is normally too late. Sometimes they get set to two, or three, but you would have to be playing Legacy to do it with any consistency. If you have specific cards you want to stop then put Nevermore/Gideon's intervention in the board, although I personally am not a huge fan of either they can at least keep specific things from being cast far more efficiently than Chalice. Cards like Finks/Messenger are not a threat, or should not be. A potential board card against those is Rest in Peace, at least if you are worried about them being blinked repeatedly from the bin in some fashion, RIP also nerfing a number of decks in the format. If you are worried about being beaten around the head with them - why? You should run some copies of Sphere of Safety, and them paying 6-20 to attack is not going to win them the game.
Solemnity and Unlife are bigger threats, in that with them both down you can't win with damage, only by decking, although Cast Out deals with either far more flexibly. Personally I would say aim at flexible cards that are useful in other matches. Nevermore/Intervention and Cast Out/Oring fitting the bill. If you want a specific card against a mirror sort of deck then you choices are limited to say the least- Enchantment destruction on both sides sounds weak. We run relatively few win cons, you may find a jester's cap/Memoricide effect works, but the issue is there are no good ones in white.
You would need a specific breakdown of their decklist in order to precisely establish a strategy for boarding. A card like Nahiri might enable you to munch through their key Enchantments, and again is a tournament quality card.
Explosives is in the category of Cast Out/O ring etc. It is a fine card if you can hit 2-3 colors of mana easily. It is not the same as Nevermore/Mage effects, a case in point being Ad Nauseam, say, but in the examples you refer to it is.
Sphere is excellent. If you fill your early stuff with plenty of action then it is fine as 2-4 copies. At 4 you need to be running 2-3 Nykkthos and Leylines, Halo etc., and comes down in its own time.
Moon is fine without fetches, you need to be careful.
Nahiri really does have a nonbo effect with SF.
3 sphere is a board card for storm (or cascade heavy decks), at best. It is not the powerhouse it is in Legacy, so many spells cost 2 or 3 anyway, the taxing effect is not as good as it can be.
Have not tried Approach, don't see why it would not work in a fetch free build.
Sunscour costs too much, and we have good anti-aggro anyway. It is playable as a board card, perhaps, in a certain kind of meta, but not the average one, if there is such a thing.
http://media.wizards.com/2017/xln/en_wZkZ5jvNGp.png
I know it seems to be a win more card, but once you have it on the ground it really can end a game very quickly
I always avoid talking about Enduring Ideal in detail, as there is a thread for EI, some posters on this thread also contribute there and vice versa. We were discussing doing a new EI primer a while back, it would be nice to tie it in specifically with this, but the EI primer although old, is actually not too out of date. I do sometimes post the EI lists here though, it is a close cousin of the deck, the same prison and control essentially but with a different endgame.
I do disagree on Blood Moon, it is fine in the 75. It is not there to beat Tron by itself, it comes in with cards like Stony Silence and Rule of Law effects, the Moon stops the tron, the Stony and Rule of Law slow effect them down considerably- one spell a turn, no popping of mana filters with draw, no O stone either. Moon shuts off G often too unless they hit a basic forest.
They do get durdle to 7 lands but it takes a lot, lot longer- they have to draw the lands naturally in a low-ish land deck, with effectively no cantrips in the deck once Stony shuts down mana filters and Maps, and in the mean time them having tron but only having mountains is pretty strong for us, buying enough time to win.
Game one Moon is pretty mediocre, but so is any real Pillow-Fort playing a long game prison strategy against Tron.
I have no idea, it looks too expensive and a win more card...........................
Making sure you are not playing Enduring Ideal, it depends on your splash in particular.
Starfield is a good insta win against a deck that is open. E.g. A game 2 vs a Tron deck that you have slowed to a crawl with Stony/Eidolon effcts can be attacked for 15-20 for example, a Sigil would take a few turns by which time they may have hit what they need to get out.
Starfield can get the good stuff back and can help the deck inn two ways.
Heliod is good with nodes, but as a win con, its ok but vulnerable to Path. Without Nodes I would say forget it. 4 Nodes would make me run a Heliod, but I would avoid 4 nodes myself.
Lminarch ascension is ok as a win con as it can slip down v counterspells more easily than most, but there are not many decks that won't damage you early.
Assemble the Legion is really good with a red splash, it is defensive often but will overwhelm most decks in time.
I am not sure. Certainly in a full unlife/solemnity build it may work, but it takes up a slot and does nothing for the harder matches. Might be better in an Enduring ideal list, it would need testing....
I am a previous magic player who due to life is starting to work on modern again. Traditional I am a control player and mostly play grixis and UWR but enchantress has always been my pet deck. My current list Of Naya enchantress is as followed
Creatures
Herald of the Patheon x4
Courser of Kruphix x3
Eidolon of BLossoms X1
Enchantments
Ramp
Utopia Sprawl x4
Oath of Nissa x3
Don't die
Journey to Nowwhere x2
Banishing light X1
Oblivion ring X1
Cast out X1
Runed Halo x4
Ghostly Prison x3
Peace of Mind X1
Sphere of Safety X1
Phyrexian Unlife x2
Solonimity x2
Eventual kill them if they don't scoop
Starfeild of Nyx X1
Assemble the Legion X1
Form of the dragon X1
Dovescape X1
The reason most player hate my deck
Idyllic tutor X1
Enduring Ideal x2
Lands
WindSweapt heath x4
Wooded Foothill x4
Temple Garden x3
Stomping Grounds x2
Sacred FOundry X1
Forest x3
Plains x3
Nykthos X1
Side
Kor Firewalker x3 (this is only until i gets leyline of sanctity)
Suppression field x2
Stony silence x2
Rest In Peace x2
Never more x2
Greater URAMANCY X2
Story Circle X1
Open the Vaults X1
So first let's agrees the Elphants in the room:
1. Yes i run the enduring Ideals i love that card and this deck lets me play it
2. Its a 61 card deck which mathematically doesn't really change anything to a degree I'm concerned with
3. This is an update and still needs more testing
4. Please don't kill me for the creatures lol
That being said i play the great creature base along with the green enchants because getting sphere on the board was always my main game plan. They die some time and as long as it is a burn spell I'm ok with that cause they gained me like and got me some advantage. The Prison package is tuned for an older meta but i think it is still at least close. I originally had a single unlife but in Solenimty i went to 2. The form of the dragon and dovescape are the original win con and i may shift away if i like the unlife combo. I haven't played modern in a while and i know its fast and creature based so i hope yaw can help me tune this baby up so i can make people quit games before i kill them :). Thank you in advance and i hope everyone enjoys their evening.
A belated welcome to the thread- I have been super busy recently.
Don't worry if you include a few creatures, we are all friends here....
4 Entreat the Angels
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Porphyry Nodes
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Runed Halo
4 Solemnity
4 Suppression Field
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
15 Plains
2 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Journey to Nowhere
2 Path to Exile
2 Porphyry Nodes
2 Rest in Peace
2 Rule of Law
2 Starfield of Nyx
2 Stony Silence
It's the second one have done in a few weeks, have not lost a match with this deck for a while.
R1 was a very good player I know quite well with a penchant for good stuff decks.
Here he was on a mardu pyromancer build with souls, burn and discard.
He mentioned that he has seen a lot of pillow fort online as he knows my preferences for prison in Legacy, and I tell him I losned out the Stax ish landkill deck I was going to play, which normally he associates me with.
I win g1 off the back of T0 Leyline, Temple scry, T2 RIP, ghostly, karoo land, Sphere/sphere no 2.
He had a burning discard heavy hand and pyromancer/souls.
G2 repeated the dose of Leyline after a mull, he Thought seized himself to trigger double pyromancer and got me to 4. Then to 2.
I lock up the board with Sphere 2,Wear Tears take out enchantments... Form of the Dragon which would have reset my life to 5 and killed him in two, and Auramancy.
Eventually I lay Starfield, to get back the Auramancy, still hiding behind two Leylines, protecting my stuff from double kill with Eidolon of Rhetoric. The Eidolon stops him from the win he had in hand which would have had him kill both animated Leylines and then me. Once Auramancy comes back he scoops with 4 cards left in his library.
R2 I work out I am against grixis Death's Shadow. I lose G1 as I chose to tutor for Nodes rather than Stubborn Deniable Runed Halo with two D S down. He swings for 18 by thoughtsizeing himself and drawing a fetch into shock. I am on 17.
G2 my mull gets me action and on the play I play around Denial to land ghostly, halo, Leyline and sphere, for the scoop.
G3 Blood Moon wrecks him.
R3 I make my junk colored opponent
pay 60 odd to attack, he does not scoop. Hmmm. I throw a o ring to the bottom. He draws the 2/3 dude who sacs duress to Exile permanents. And wins as I fail to draw removal for what is his only out.
G2 takes 5 mins, I lay Blood Moon, he is ruined by it and my Luminarch Ascension and Assemble the Legion go nuts.
G3 we cannot find ish due to Legacy overlapping so we ID.
Please do! I just started playing this archetype and I'm having trouble finding a plurality of lists to show me what people have been trying. It seems like the list is highly in flux.
How good is idyllic tutor? I'm considering picking 1 or two up because my meta is full of weird jank cards and it could let me run more 1 of's in my SB.
I had a heartbreaking loss on tuesday vs. infect where I got stuck on 2 lands (kept a hand with 2 white sources + solemnity and got punished). I lost my match up against modern aetherworks marvel as well. Dealing with a deck that get's emrakul into play via both casting and putting directly into play seems almost impossible for this achetype to deal with. I don't want to warp my list around such an oddball, but man did that feel just unwinnable when I didn't get solemnity down early.
I had to play what I consider an incomplete list, as my aura masteries didn't come in the mail yet, so I'm hoping that helps with post board games and incidental mainboard enchantment removal. Should I just run them in the board if I don't think I'm going to be seeing abrupt decay in game 1?
In games where single 3+ cmc lock pieces straight up win us the match, I could see taking them out in favor of basic plains or mistveils, as we really just want to stop their clocks from outracing us, so even if we take a few turns to recover and draw some land, perhaps it would be worth it? This could especially good if you know certain archetypes just don't exist in your meta.
7 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Blood Moon
1 Dovescape
1 Form of the Dragon
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Porphyry Nodes
4 Runed Halo
1 Suppression Field
4 Enduring Ideal
2 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Greater Auramancy
3 Rest in Peace
3 Rule of Law
3 Stony Silence
2 Pyroclasm
I'm going to pick up two for my board and see if they do anything.
By the way, where did you find that list? Did it win something?