So this thread has been quite for a long time, which is a shame. I was wondering if anyone has tested out Genesis Wave in a G/W build. The biggest problem I have found is the lack of card draw/finding a closer in time. It seems like Genesis Wave and Eidolon of Blossoms may be able to help. The deck doesn't have difficulty generating a lot of mana via Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I realize Eidolon of Blossoms may be weak in Modern but with Greater Auramancy in play (which i cant understand why you wouldn't run it) it definitely adds some protection to our card advantage engine. Though a legitimate problem is running Eidolon of Blossoms along side Porphyry Nodes. I'm just batting around some ideas because my W/R version struggles to close out a game.
I could be totally off though.
I have never gone down the Wave route, I know Nythos/Wave is a thing, but I am not sure if it could be brought into this deck.
Eidolon is ok, the main issue is that it switches on dead cards in opponents hands, and offers the minor constraint of not being able to use Porphyr Nodes, or at least of introducing a potential nonbo, as you correctly point out. You are absolutely correct in the importance of Greater Auramancy, too. Nodes is only really great in builds with Indestructible God tech, though, so you could drop that part, although I rather like it, it is probably droppable with some care.
On finishing, I have switched into a couple of R/W karoo lands as well as the Nkythos engine, and can ramp into a lurking Obliterate , main deck. When it resolves it leaves 5-12 permanents, often Ghostly Prisons, Leylines and Spheres. If this happens opponents often scoop once they can no longer pay the taxes. Finishing is hard, but it becomes a lot easier if you unexpectedly get a 12-15-18 for 6-8. My main issue at the moment is a lack of thriving Modern community to play the deck, and its sister deck, Enduring Ideal. Because interest has dropped off I am not getting matches in, so I have not really been able to experiment further. The Eldrazi winter did not kill the format, and the Pro-Tour absence has not killled the format, and the bannings have not killed the format, but the collective impact of all three has certainly reduced interest here. We have been quiet here because the deck has not really gained much in recent times. We are an answer deck and few answer and taxes have been printed of late.
If you have a super aggro linear meta it is still an excellent choice, ditto if combo is prevalent.
My Obliterate solves the late game issues against the formats few counter heavy control decks, where I worry about laying win cons as they will be countered. If I wait it should surface, although lack of manipulation hurts the deck. Normally floating a large amount of mana, casting Obliterate solves the issue, no matter what the issue is. A bouncing of a Scry Temple works well too, those temples are awesome, and getting a free scry 3-4-5 times in a game is always good. The whole thing sounds sounds janky, but it actually works well.
Suppression Field and Leyline in combination stops most combo decks as it always has done, whilst often Sphere of Safety can hold off enemies a long time, so durdling to 8 mana happens more often than not, let alone accelerating. The exception, as ever, are the big mana Tron (proper tron not Eldrazi Tron) lists, but even there it is possible to Obliterate and wreck them once in a while, before moving to more hate in G2.
If the midrange decks in your area have dropped Decays, Pulse etc and are pushing Fatal Push into the shell over those cards, the deck gets better still, and should be quite well-placed now.
It's certainly is a shame Wizards hasn't really printed any solid 1 drop enchantments; at least not in the way they have artifacts.
It does hurt to lose a card like Porphyry Nodes. When it's good it's back breaking but there's also an overly redundant portion to it. Once our prison is set it generally becomes a dead draw. It play nicely with Heliod, God of the Sun but not so much with his tokens; nor Assemble the Legion for that matter (a minor inconvenience). I do have to say I love the idea of Obliterate. Red helps against Tron but it seems to me like one of those matches that's so heavily skewed in their favor that sideboarding won't make much of a difference. Sure we can take them off Tron with a lucky Crumble to Dust but they can and will build mana faster that we can find our finishers using Red. Chandra, Torch of Defiance is certainly an option, plus she'll ramp post Obliterate, provide spot removal, and at least some sense of a "clock"
While Ajani Unyielding is expensive he can be a serious card advantage engine (and repeatable Swords to Plowshares). Granted, walkers aren't as protected in Pillow Fort builds as they are in Stax builds with Ensnaring Bridge but Sphere of Safety covers them nicely. It doesn't seem inconceivable that you can lock opponents out of creatures by alternating his +2 and -2 abilities. In Magical Christmas Land casting him against Death's Shadow would be an absolute slap in the face and that may just be worth the price of admission. Green is susceptible to counters no doubt about it. For whatever its worth Boseiju, Who Shelters All forces through Genesis Wave.
So I haven't read this entire thread, but I discovered it a couple of days ago. I recently have been playing a Starfield of Nyx deck in Frontier, and I just love this card so much and the enchantment synergy it provides. Also, as I kid I saw an Opalescence so this deck has some real nostalgia for me.
There are 2 cards in the Frontier version that really help with the filtering. Vessel of Nascency and Oath of Jace. These cards do not provide card advantage, however early game they provide much needed filtering, and late game they do provide a decent card draw engine with a starfield of nyx in play.
Also, I've seen some comments about a lack of 1cmc interaction with creatures. A card I've used is Oppressive Rays. It slows down creatures in the early game, and really contributes to the taxes when Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety start coming out.
Just curious if anyone has used these cards and if they're any good in modern
The issue is not a lack of interaction with critters @ 1 cc, but a lack of good 1cc stuff. Interacting with critters at 1cc is not really the issue, as RH and Ghostly do a decent job of slowing them anyway. The 1cc slot is problematic because it needs a generic card, a pithing needle type card.
Filtering is ok in the blue version- it can run Monastery Siege as well as the Serum Vision type cards, and of course Scry Temples too.
Nascency has the issue of Nonbo-ing with Suppression Field, which is awkward.
On RED and Tron....
I use a board of Blood Moons, Eidolons of Rhetoric, Stony Silences. CTD is good, but I would only use 1-2 copies and 1-2 Moon. Stony and Eidolons have other applications, Moon has some applications, and thus all are great board cards compared to CTD. You can get the match to the OK level by skewing game 2/3 to 50--60-65% levels only you can get a match up at about 40%. The main issue is them durdling to All is Dust rather than Ugin/Karn or O stones, as the Stones get hit by Stony, the Eidolons should slow them to a crawl, and S field stops them activating t3 Karn - making it vulnerable to O ring. If you keep them off Megamana you are fine until they hit the All is Dust. Hence the Obliterate tech works well- once cast they are probably toast if you leave a Moon/Stony down.
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Well at least there are a couple of enchantments in the new set.
Cast out is an O ring for 4 mana, and cycles for W. Now that is potentially playable if it were not for Suppression Field interacting badly with the cycling.
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Sorry, its been a while. Real life had me distracted. The more I think about casting an Obliterate the more I love it. Very few board states in Modern that can handle it once its resolved.
I think Cast Out may be useful but there are very few times you can't find a use for Oblivion Ring. It's this deck's premier catch all answer, so I don't know if the increased mana cost is actually worth the cycling ability. As for the no-bo interaction with Suppression Field it shouldn't stop you from considering it. Generally if you're cycling it it'll be when you have the board under control and likely have expendable mana.
I'm undecided about how relevant the flash is. Nothing else in this deck operates at instant speed so I find it tough to believe we'll be leaving mana open just for the sake of casting it on their turn.
I do think the cycling lands are certainly a huge boon to this deck. A shame that the W/R isn't a thing but if someone did go W/G I cant picture not playing them.
And the list of possible enchantments looks......guff.
5 mana for a one-point-per-source damage prevention effect compares poorly to Leylines/Sphere of Safety.
In Blue we get stuff that is very narrow build around stuff.
Black has the 7cc curse, which might get use in a Enduring Ideal deck, but not straight up Pillow Fort.
Come on, give us something beyond the endless stream of critters an critter buffers.
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Black has the 7cc curse, which might get use in a Enduring Ideal deck, but not straight up Pillow Fort.
Come on, give us something beyond the endless stream of critters an critter buffers.
Black has the 7cc curse, which might get use in a Enduring Ideal deck, but not straight up Pillow Fort.
Come on, give us something beyond the endless stream of critters an critter buffers.
Definitely playable. It is +1 on Nevermore for an effect that is better than +1 mana, so it is a start. Shame it can't stop them using a permanent rather than the nominally better damage preventing- e.g. stopping planeswalkers is more needed for the deck than preventing critter damage, which the deck does well, but yeah, coming from the drought of the last few sets it is most welcome.
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Judging by the "spoilers" for the next but one set, you can assume I will be winging that as usual its all about bloody critters, and nothing much prisonish in the enchantment department....
Guess the next one will go that way too. If they printed a 1cc Enchantment with a text box that said nothing in the text box R and D would still worry it was overpowered. Meanwhile every interesting effect is being printed on distinctly uninteresting critters. I hope both sets bomb......
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I don't like Kefnet at all...PTE is still a thing, we run Leylines that can come down early making the card requirements hard. It is certainly a playable card in the right environ, and yeah, we need to win, but it has an activated ability- which won't combine with S field (one of our MVPS in most builds). I mean Heliod is not always played and that is way easier to switch on and combines better with Porphyr Nodes, Devotion, and Sphere of Safety.
I guess in Blue you can run Spreading Seas which combines reasonably with Kefnet's requirements- so it might work.
Planeswalkers are playable, but again that means dropping S field, a card which can singlehandedly delay aggro decks to a sluggish crawl like Death's Shadow by making each fetch cost 2- synergising perfectly with Ghostly Prison in the mid game, whilst stuffing over many combo decks (ones involving Jace VP, reanimators Bobyg, Griselbrand, Lightning Storm (in Ad Nauseam), Viscera Seer (provided there is no infinite mana all become super wretched for the opponent). Heliod can come down at 4 and not need its ability to be good, but Planeswalkers pretty much have to up their abilities the turn the come down.
I think I would rather play S field and hose Pws and the combo cards over playing PWs which we can't abuse that much- or at least no more than other decks. I also like S field as I board in an Obliterate for control games, meaning resolving it with S field down is normally a concession given the number of real lands in a lot of decks.
Runed Halo does not need Telepathy effects at all- if you are using it preemptively you are probably using it incorrectly. It is removal that comes down after the event, except perhaps against the odd burn deck where you might want to lay it before Eidolon. It is best used to stuff over a threat on board.
I don't say no to Telepathy, as it can contribute to Sphere of Safety and a nominal devotion to Blue (currently unlikely to be significant at this point in time), but generally people prefer to Peek as it replaces itself at the cost of a mana. The thing is if you need perfect hand information to play those cards then don't play them or try a black splash with discard (admittedly this is a challenge int he archetype despite the addition of 1cc discard). If you learn the format well then knowing what to Nevermore is easier, although I do not feel Nevermore is a main deck card. To be honest the combination of Nevermore and Halo (Gideon's Intervention) is designed to provide flexibility at an admittedly steep cost.
I've been fiddling with a mono-white version of this deck lately. It makes a fun change-up from the more aggressive decks I generally play. I'd like to share my list and some thoughts on the deck, and ask some questions.
Having read through this thread, IMHO, Myth Realized has been badly undervalued as a win condition for this deck. We're in desperate need of 1-drops, especially on the play. MR gives us a cheap option on a turn that we usually don't have much to do, rewards us for following our plan, stays out of Porphyry Nodes' way, and can give us a fairly tough blocker if something slips through. I'm a newcomer to this deck, and I know the list has enough room for variation, especially in win conditions, that I'd be a fool if I said this deck should always run MR, but I think it merits more consideration than it's gotten on this thread. It's certainly been good to me as a 3-of, and I've been considering adding a fourth in the SB to replace a Nodes for G2/G3 on the play.
I honestly haven't had any particular trouble with permission compared to other matchups, as I have two routes to resolving a win con against counters. First, a T1 Myth Realized can often come down ahead of their counters (another reason I'm surprised I don't see more of MR here). If that doesn't pan out, either because I simply don't have MR in my opening hand or because I'm on the draw and they have a CMC 1 counter, two MD Cavern of Souls give me a way to power out an uncounterable Heliod.
Finally, I'd like to get some thoughts on some more recent cards. First off, I haven't had much success integrating Gideon's Intervention. The only way I can justify it is by pulling out Runed Halos or Nevermores, and every time I draw it, I find myself wishing it was one of them. I don't think combining the two effects is worth coming down a turn or two later against the kinds of decks you need them against. Has anyone had any luck with Intervention?
Second, I've been considering retooling with a green splash for Kruphix's Insight and Heroic Intervention if I start seeing more mass enchantment removal. Has anyone tried Heroic Intervention as a complement or replacement to Greater Auramancy?
Lastly, has anyone tried out the cycling duals from Amonkhet? I've tried running Temples, but they aren't a very good combination with Endless Horizons, my other tool for boosting my draw quality. But while Irrigated Farmland and Scattered Groves work well with Horizons, they don't do so well with Suppression Field. Has anyone found a way to make them work?
No, I have not seen any lists in this or its Enduring Ideal cousin with the cycling duals.
Come to think of it, the last non-Temple list I saw was some way back. I have not seen EH for ages.
I have seen the green splash for KI, I can't remember where but I have seen it in moderate-to-big sized events a couple of times in the past couple of years. The instant hexproof/indestructible I have not seen used in either Pillow Fort or its cousin. It is a relatively recent card, green is a relatively unpopular splash due to R and U offering more in the awful Tron ramp matchup. G. Auramancy offers a lot more security for a deck that taps out in game one, but in game two against mass enchantment removal it might well do the job. A lot depends on if you know what they run as mass removal as to how effective the Nevermore effects are- if you know its a Fracturing Gust heading your way then they may be enough. Personally I hope to dodge the matchups with mass removal- a reason to not keep playing the deck at your local LGS week-on-week.
Not sure permission is the big issue- when permission decks run something like a Nahiri, as was in vogue a while back, then those decks were problematical. When permission is stubborn denial or mana leak in a Grixis shell there is not much issue.
On GI....I have not incorporated it, it certainly should not go in over RH, but if anything it is over a Nevermore- if your curve allows.
MR is fine enough, you are running 4 GA which makes it better and more path resistant. One of the minor issues is always having mana to activate it with multiple SF down, or having the GA to make it path proof, but as a win con late game it is fine in the same way that Luminarch Ascension is fine. It is not the card we hoped for in the one slot- when it was spoiled there was tremendous excitement, but its fine, and against the permission it slips down earlier than LA if permission is an issue in the meta, at the cost of not being as big a potential threat whilst being easier to get working.
The issue with all pillow fort decks is the extent to which you are prepared to bend the deck to beat Tron, which is why R and U are the most common splashes.
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Looking at the primer and reading the last couple of pages, I'm wondering something. In the Planeswalker section, it lists walkers that are good and really only has a few. If U/W is one of the more popular color combos for the deck, why is there no mention of Narset Transcendent? Sure her rebound ability is useless for us, but she digs hard for cards and once your opponent can't cast non-creature spells, our enchantments are safe and with Ghostly Prisons and Nevermore effects running, they likely won't have any way to win. Seems like she could help speed up wins for the deck some portion of the time.
Then again, I'm currently running Esper Transcendent and have upped the walker count to 13 main and 2 more in the board, but walkers seem like an excellent win con for the deck.
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I have never gone down the Wave route, I know Nythos/Wave is a thing, but I am not sure if it could be brought into this deck.
Eidolon is ok, the main issue is that it switches on dead cards in opponents hands, and offers the minor constraint of not being able to use Porphyr Nodes, or at least of introducing a potential nonbo, as you correctly point out. You are absolutely correct in the importance of Greater Auramancy, too. Nodes is only really great in builds with Indestructible God tech, though, so you could drop that part, although I rather like it, it is probably droppable with some care.
On finishing, I have switched into a couple of R/W karoo lands as well as the Nkythos engine, and can ramp into a lurking Obliterate , main deck. When it resolves it leaves 5-12 permanents, often Ghostly Prisons, Leylines and Spheres. If this happens opponents often scoop once they can no longer pay the taxes. Finishing is hard, but it becomes a lot easier if you unexpectedly get a 12-15-18 for 6-8. My main issue at the moment is a lack of thriving Modern community to play the deck, and its sister deck, Enduring Ideal. Because interest has dropped off I am not getting matches in, so I have not really been able to experiment further. The Eldrazi winter did not kill the format, and the Pro-Tour absence has not killled the format, and the bannings have not killed the format, but the collective impact of all three has certainly reduced interest here. We have been quiet here because the deck has not really gained much in recent times. We are an answer deck and few answer and taxes have been printed of late.
If you have a super aggro linear meta it is still an excellent choice, ditto if combo is prevalent.
My Obliterate solves the late game issues against the formats few counter heavy control decks, where I worry about laying win cons as they will be countered. If I wait it should surface, although lack of manipulation hurts the deck. Normally floating a large amount of mana, casting Obliterate solves the issue, no matter what the issue is. A bouncing of a Scry Temple works well too, those temples are awesome, and getting a free scry 3-4-5 times in a game is always good. The whole thing sounds sounds janky, but it actually works well.
Suppression Field and Leyline in combination stops most combo decks as it always has done, whilst often Sphere of Safety can hold off enemies a long time, so durdling to 8 mana happens more often than not, let alone accelerating. The exception, as ever, are the big mana Tron (proper tron not Eldrazi Tron) lists, but even there it is possible to Obliterate and wreck them once in a while, before moving to more hate in G2.
If the midrange decks in your area have dropped Decays, Pulse etc and are pushing Fatal Push into the shell over those cards, the deck gets better still, and should be quite well-placed now.
It does hurt to lose a card like Porphyry Nodes. When it's good it's back breaking but there's also an overly redundant portion to it. Once our prison is set it generally becomes a dead draw. It play nicely with Heliod, God of the Sun but not so much with his tokens; nor Assemble the Legion for that matter (a minor inconvenience). I do have to say I love the idea of Obliterate. Red helps against Tron but it seems to me like one of those matches that's so heavily skewed in their favor that sideboarding won't make much of a difference. Sure we can take them off Tron with a lucky Crumble to Dust but they can and will build mana faster that we can find our finishers using Red. Chandra, Torch of Defiance is certainly an option, plus she'll ramp post Obliterate, provide spot removal, and at least some sense of a "clock"
While Ajani Unyielding is expensive he can be a serious card advantage engine (and repeatable Swords to Plowshares). Granted, walkers aren't as protected in Pillow Fort builds as they are in Stax builds with Ensnaring Bridge but Sphere of Safety covers them nicely. It doesn't seem inconceivable that you can lock opponents out of creatures by alternating his +2 and -2 abilities. In Magical Christmas Land casting him against Death's Shadow would be an absolute slap in the face and that may just be worth the price of admission. Green is susceptible to counters no doubt about it. For whatever its worth Boseiju, Who Shelters All forces through Genesis Wave.
So I haven't read this entire thread, but I discovered it a couple of days ago. I recently have been playing a Starfield of Nyx deck in Frontier, and I just love this card so much and the enchantment synergy it provides. Also, as I kid I saw an Opalescence so this deck has some real nostalgia for me.
There are 2 cards in the Frontier version that really help with the filtering. Vessel of Nascency and Oath of Jace. These cards do not provide card advantage, however early game they provide much needed filtering, and late game they do provide a decent card draw engine with a starfield of nyx in play.
Also, I've seen some comments about a lack of 1cmc interaction with creatures. A card I've used is Oppressive Rays. It slows down creatures in the early game, and really contributes to the taxes when Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety start coming out.
Just curious if anyone has used these cards and if they're any good in modern
Filtering is ok in the blue version- it can run Monastery Siege as well as the Serum Vision type cards, and of course Scry Temples too.
Nascency has the issue of Nonbo-ing with Suppression Field, which is awkward.
On RED and Tron....
I use a board of Blood Moons, Eidolons of Rhetoric, Stony Silences. CTD is good, but I would only use 1-2 copies and 1-2 Moon. Stony and Eidolons have other applications, Moon has some applications, and thus all are great board cards compared to CTD. You can get the match to the OK level by skewing game 2/3 to 50--60-65% levels only you can get a match up at about 40%. The main issue is them durdling to All is Dust rather than Ugin/Karn or O stones, as the Stones get hit by Stony, the Eidolons should slow them to a crawl, and S field stops them activating t3 Karn - making it vulnerable to O ring. If you keep them off Megamana you are fine until they hit the All is Dust. Hence the Obliterate tech works well- once cast they are probably toast if you leave a Moon/Stony down.
Cast out is an O ring for 4 mana, and cycles for W. Now that is potentially playable if it were not for Suppression Field interacting badly with the cycling.
I think Cast Out may be useful but there are very few times you can't find a use for Oblivion Ring. It's this deck's premier catch all answer, so I don't know if the increased mana cost is actually worth the cycling ability. As for the no-bo interaction with Suppression Field it shouldn't stop you from considering it. Generally if you're cycling it it'll be when you have the board under control and likely have expendable mana.
I'm undecided about how relevant the flash is. Nothing else in this deck operates at instant speed so I find it tough to believe we'll be leaving mana open just for the sake of casting it on their turn.
I do think the cycling lands are certainly a huge boon to this deck. A shame that the W/R isn't a thing but if someone did go W/G I cant picture not playing them.
5 mana for a one-point-per-source damage prevention effect compares poorly to Leylines/Sphere of Safety.
In Blue we get stuff that is very narrow build around stuff.
Black has the 7cc curse, which might get use in a Enduring Ideal deck, but not straight up Pillow Fort.
Come on, give us something beyond the endless stream of critters an critter buffers.
Wish Granted! Hope it's good enough for you.
Gideon's Intervention
Definitely playable. It is +1 on Nevermore for an effect that is better than +1 mana, so it is a start. Shame it can't stop them using a permanent rather than the nominally better damage preventing- e.g. stopping planeswalkers is more needed for the deck than preventing critter damage, which the deck does well, but yeah, coming from the drought of the last few sets it is most welcome.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=112967
Heroic intervention and eyes of the wisent pretty cool, along with mainboard lotus blooms and assemble
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Guess the next one will go that way too. If they printed a 1cc Enchantment with a text box that said nothing in the text box R and D would still worry it was overpowered. Meanwhile every interesting effect is being printed on distinctly uninteresting critters. I hope both sets bomb......
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Hoses Vial and Poison too.
I prefer Peek to Telepathy to draw a card, and seeing the hand once should give you a decent idea of what you are up against to know what to name.
Without some massive card draw (Sphinx's Revelation/Mesa Enchantress) turning on Kefnet's creature mode would be difficult so I'd prefer
Dragonlord Ojutai which can cast Anticipate upon dealing damage and is safe before you decide to attack.
Gideon is pretty good but I prefer the bigger version of Gideon Jura which is more difficult to deal with and closes games faster.
Here is my W/U version of the deck:
4x Meddling Mage
1x Dragonlord Ojutai
Planeswalker (2)
1x Gideon Jura
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Instant (4)
4x Peek
Enchantment (26)
4x Journey to Nowhere
4x Spreading Seas
4x Detention Sphere
2x Ghostly Prison
3x Nevermore
2x Cast Out
4x Gideon's Intervention
3x Sphere of Safety
4x Flooded Strand
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Temple of Enlightenment
3x Ghost Quarter
5x Plains
3x Island
3x Path to Exile
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Disenchant
4x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Linvala, The Preserver
I used this deck as a template - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-98-28-tix-nevermore-modern
With elements from both the budget and the non-budget versions.
I guess in Blue you can run Spreading Seas which combines reasonably with Kefnet's requirements- so it might work.
Planeswalkers are playable, but again that means dropping S field, a card which can singlehandedly delay aggro decks to a sluggish crawl like Death's Shadow by making each fetch cost 2- synergising perfectly with Ghostly Prison in the mid game, whilst stuffing over many combo decks (ones involving Jace VP, reanimators Bobyg, Griselbrand, Lightning Storm (in Ad Nauseam), Viscera Seer (provided there is no infinite mana all become super wretched for the opponent). Heliod can come down at 4 and not need its ability to be good, but Planeswalkers pretty much have to up their abilities the turn the come down.
I think I would rather play S field and hose Pws and the combo cards over playing PWs which we can't abuse that much- or at least no more than other decks. I also like S field as I board in an Obliterate for control games, meaning resolving it with S field down is normally a concession given the number of real lands in a lot of decks.
Runed Halo does not need Telepathy effects at all- if you are using it preemptively you are probably using it incorrectly. It is removal that comes down after the event, except perhaps against the odd burn deck where you might want to lay it before Eidolon. It is best used to stuff over a threat on board.
I don't say no to Telepathy, as it can contribute to Sphere of Safety and a nominal devotion to Blue (currently unlikely to be significant at this point in time), but generally people prefer to Peek as it replaces itself at the cost of a mana. The thing is if you need perfect hand information to play those cards then don't play them or try a black splash with discard (admittedly this is a challenge int he archetype despite the addition of 1cc discard). If you learn the format well then knowing what to Nevermore is easier, although I do not feel Nevermore is a main deck card. To be honest the combination of Nevermore and Halo (Gideon's Intervention) is designed to provide flexibility at an admittedly steep cost.
3 Myth Realized
4 Porphyry Nodes
4 Greater Auramancy
4 Runed Halo
4 Suppression Field
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Nevermore
2 Endless Horizons
2 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Sphere of Safety
1 Starfield of Nyx
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
14 Plains
1 Nevermore
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Aura of Silence
3 Rule of Law
2 Sphere of Safety
Having read through this thread, IMHO, Myth Realized has been badly undervalued as a win condition for this deck. We're in desperate need of 1-drops, especially on the play. MR gives us a cheap option on a turn that we usually don't have much to do, rewards us for following our plan, stays out of Porphyry Nodes' way, and can give us a fairly tough blocker if something slips through. I'm a newcomer to this deck, and I know the list has enough room for variation, especially in win conditions, that I'd be a fool if I said this deck should always run MR, but I think it merits more consideration than it's gotten on this thread. It's certainly been good to me as a 3-of, and I've been considering adding a fourth in the SB to replace a Nodes for G2/G3 on the play.
I honestly haven't had any particular trouble with permission compared to other matchups, as I have two routes to resolving a win con against counters. First, a T1 Myth Realized can often come down ahead of their counters (another reason I'm surprised I don't see more of MR here). If that doesn't pan out, either because I simply don't have MR in my opening hand or because I'm on the draw and they have a CMC 1 counter, two MD Cavern of Souls give me a way to power out an uncounterable Heliod.
Finally, I'd like to get some thoughts on some more recent cards. First off, I haven't had much success integrating Gideon's Intervention. The only way I can justify it is by pulling out Runed Halos or Nevermores, and every time I draw it, I find myself wishing it was one of them. I don't think combining the two effects is worth coming down a turn or two later against the kinds of decks you need them against. Has anyone had any luck with Intervention?
Second, I've been considering retooling with a green splash for Kruphix's Insight and Heroic Intervention if I start seeing more mass enchantment removal. Has anyone tried Heroic Intervention as a complement or replacement to Greater Auramancy?
Lastly, has anyone tried out the cycling duals from Amonkhet? I've tried running Temples, but they aren't a very good combination with Endless Horizons, my other tool for boosting my draw quality. But while Irrigated Farmland and Scattered Groves work well with Horizons, they don't do so well with Suppression Field. Has anyone found a way to make them work?
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Hello and welcome to the thread.
In reverse order..
No, I have not seen any lists in this or its Enduring Ideal cousin with the cycling duals.
Come to think of it, the last non-Temple list I saw was some way back. I have not seen EH for ages.
I have seen the green splash for KI, I can't remember where but I have seen it in moderate-to-big sized events a couple of times in the past couple of years. The instant hexproof/indestructible I have not seen used in either Pillow Fort or its cousin. It is a relatively recent card, green is a relatively unpopular splash due to R and U offering more in the awful Tron ramp matchup. G. Auramancy offers a lot more security for a deck that taps out in game one, but in game two against mass enchantment removal it might well do the job. A lot depends on if you know what they run as mass removal as to how effective the Nevermore effects are- if you know its a Fracturing Gust heading your way then they may be enough. Personally I hope to dodge the matchups with mass removal- a reason to not keep playing the deck at your local LGS week-on-week.
Not sure permission is the big issue- when permission decks run something like a Nahiri, as was in vogue a while back, then those decks were problematical. When permission is stubborn denial or mana leak in a Grixis shell there is not much issue.
On GI....I have not incorporated it, it certainly should not go in over RH, but if anything it is over a Nevermore- if your curve allows.
MR is fine enough, you are running 4 GA which makes it better and more path resistant. One of the minor issues is always having mana to activate it with multiple SF down, or having the GA to make it path proof, but as a win con late game it is fine in the same way that Luminarch Ascension is fine. It is not the card we hoped for in the one slot- when it was spoiled there was tremendous excitement, but its fine, and against the permission it slips down earlier than LA if permission is an issue in the meta, at the cost of not being as big a potential threat whilst being easier to get working.
The issue with all pillow fort decks is the extent to which you are prepared to bend the deck to beat Tron, which is why R and U are the most common splashes.
Then again, I'm currently running Esper Transcendent and have upped the walker count to 13 main and 2 more in the board, but walkers seem like an excellent win con for the deck.