I am pretty sure that I like paladin en vec for the simple reason that it is pyroclasm proof. In my experience playing both with and against knights, red small sweepers are this decks worst nightmare rather than wrath effects. Mostly, because they get through indestructible after dropping the knight exemplar himself.
I have to agree why did they have to print him as a 3cc knight? Anyway having a new knight spoiled is definitely good ;). Whether he is playable or not we really have to look at his other 2 closest knights, Knight of Meadowgrain and Paladin en-Vec.
Well, for my purposes, I don't even like knight of meadowgrain, so lifelink is an ability of the new knight that would do nothing to me. I firmly believe that if you are going to gain life, it should be a LOT of life. 2 life at a crack? meh.
Paladin en vec straight up beats this guy out on all counts for me, as protection is just superior to the ability to avoid targeting.
New here, but signed up just because of this thread. Love me some knights.
What are your thoughts about side-boarding Dismember? Yeah it cost 4 life for us, but I generally make that up with my lifelink guys. Plus I run four Marsh Flats so I really could splash in some swamps if I really wanted to (I haven't yet because of the lifelink). But being able to trash an indestructible dude... pretty cool. So far the loss of life hasn't hurt me to the point where it has cost me matches. It's a sideboard card, so if I'm throwing it at something, it's totally worth it. Just wondering what others think.
New here, but signed up just because of this thread. Love me some knights.
What are your thoughts about side-boarding Dismember? Yeah it cost 4 life for us, but I generally make that up with my lifelink guys. Plus I run four Marsh Flats so I really could splash in some swamps if I really wanted to (I haven't yet because of the lifelink). But being able to trash an indestructible dude... pretty cool. So far the loss of life hasn't hurt me to the point where it has cost me matches. It's a sideboard card, so if I'm throwing it at something, it's totally worth it. Just wondering what others think.
Dismember is a fantastic sideboard card if your meta requires it. It's my favourite removal spell behind Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt. My meta doesn't have things that need it, but I would definitely recommend it if you're finding it helpful. (:
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Well, for my purposes, I don't even like knight of meadowgrain, so lifelink is an ability of the new knight that would do nothing to me. I firmly believe that if you are going to gain life, it should be a LOT of life. 2 life at a crack? meh.
Paladin en vec straight up beats this guy out on all counts for me, as protection is just superior to the ability to avoid targeting.
Maybe it is just me and my endless matchups against UWR tempo and RB Burn, but the lifegain from Knight of Meadowgrain usuallly just pull me away from lethal burn to the face or gives me a few more turns to outrace them, basically the 2-4 life point gained does messes with their equation and tempo and buy me sufficient time.
Agree on Paladin en-vec superiority here, at least on paper. Seriously I don't know whether a Knight deck with 8 lifelink creatures would just outgrind opponents :rolleyes:, worth playtesting over I guess ;).
New here, but signed up just because of this thread. Love me some knights.
What are your thoughts about side-boarding Dismember? Yeah it cost 4 life for us, but I generally make that up with my lifelink guys. Plus I run four Marsh Flats so I really could splash in some swamps if I really wanted to (I haven't yet because of the lifelink). But being able to trash an indestructible dude... pretty cool. So far the loss of life hasn't hurt me to the point where it has cost me matches. It's a sideboard card, so if I'm throwing it at something, it's totally worth it. Just wondering what others think.
First post? Welcome to Modern Knights ;)!
Pretty much as what JPoJohnson said below, if we need additional removal Dismember is a very good option, in the worst situation of mana screw we can still cast it, and it shouldn't be difficult to splash a little black into the deck, and it's even better since you already have Marsh Flats. A few Godless Shrine and you are set to go.
I remember the likes of Despatch via the Aether Vial or Darksteel Citadel for metacraft route Or Oblivion Ring to catch all including other permanents, but I guess at the moment Dismember is the easiest to pull it off at the moment. Honestly I did forgot about this card after SOM left the Standard format. And I think this card is definitely worth a mention in the primer somewhere :thumbsup:!
Dismember is a fantastic sideboard card if your meta requires it. It's my favourite removal spell behind Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt. My meta doesn't have things that need it, but I would definitely recommend it if you're finding it helpful. (:
I just got back from my first local Modern tournament, managed to place 2nd. Won the first round against Birthing Pod after losing game 1, god handed game 2 by turn 5 thanks to Mirran Crusader and Sword of Fire and Ice, and game 3 he didn't draw any Pods.
Second round was against Zombies, White Knight and Mirran Crusader didn't care much about his creatures, especially when backed up by triple Knight Exemplar.
Final round was against another Pod deck, this time I didn't draw any Path to Exile and both games ate one million copies of Pestermite to the face thanks to Kiki-Jiki.
This is the list I ran:
LANDS
x20 Plains
CREATURES x28
x4 Student of Warfare
x4 Knight Exemplar
x4 Leonin Skyhunter
x4 Hero of Bladehold
x3 Accorder Paladin
x2 Mirran Crusader
x2 Stillmoon Cavalier
x2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
x1 White Knight
x1 Knight of Meadowgrain
x1 Knight of the White Orchid
OTHER x12
x4 Path to Exile
x4 Brave the Elements
x2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
x1 Oblivion Ring
x1 Sword of Fire and Ice
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Knight of Meadowgrain is good against burn and other aggro decks, since you need to outrace the damage. In addition, it can offset the life loss needed to cast Dismember if the deck uses it.
Fiendslayer Paladin would be good if Paladin en-Vec didn't exist. I agree with the others that Paladin en-Vec is protected against all red damage and red creatures and all black creatures and black targeted removal. Red is basically shut down, since nearly all of its non-targeted, removal-style spells deal damage.
Hi MemoryLapse, let me do some thinking first, I'll get back to you again on this :).
I am interested too.
I loved playing White Weenie decks back in standard during the Mirage/Tempest block, which happened to play quite a few knights, but not always. It was a very good deck back then with all of the prevalence of mono red, and the threat of Armageddon and the usage of Tithe made them good against control or even combo.
But I don't want to play a Knight deck just because it's a Knight deck. I generally think it's bad to start with, "I want to make a Knight deck," or "I want to make a Dragon's deck." That's not really a strategy for winning.
So I would love to know how it does against the top decks, and how it compares to something like Merfolk, which is essentially trying to do the same thing but with tempo advantages and counters.
I loved playing White Weenie decks back in standard during the Mirage/Tempest block, which happened to play quite a few knights, but not always. It was a very good deck back then with all of the prevalence of mono red, and the threat of Armageddon and the usage of Tithe made them good against control or even combo.
But I don't want to play a Knight deck just because it's a Knight deck. I generally think it's bad to start with, "I want to make a Knight deck," or "I want to make a Dragon's deck." That's not really a strategy for winning.
So I would love to know how it does against the top decks, and how it compares to something like Merfolk, which is essentially trying to do the same thing but with tempo advantages and counters.
I run both Knights and Merfolk, so I think I can shed some light on comparing the two decks.
Knights are far more resilient to board wipes in my opinion. You can drop 2 critters and start to get back on your feet whereas Merfolk sometimes lose all their momentum. Knights also has some of their 'lords' come in the form of Enchantments (since they run Honor of the Pure so board wipes aren't as fiesty.
The indestructibility of knights after you drop an Exemplar makes it so that you can do something like bash face with Knight of Meadowgrain when you get into a locked match for constant life gain (or with a flier or whatever).
Overall, I think that Merfolk is a little bit better since cards like Remand allow for keeping the tempo and Spreading Seas makes for a more permanent evade than Brave the Elements. The include of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for the sideboard hurts the spot removal of many decks out there.
I realize I'm babbling on and probably not actually getting my thoughts out/being helpful, so I'll just list the main points for a tl;dr section haha (:
tl;dr
Mono U Merfolk
1. Merfolk has the ability to keep the tempo up more consistently (Islandwalk, Spreading Seas, Remand
2. Merfolk has answers to decks while Knights simply try to outrace/outsurvive
Knights
1. Knights have the indestructibility advantage in certain situations.
2. Knights are able to permanently answer problem creatures (Path to Exile whereas Merfolk typically only temporarily).
There are several other comparisons, but nothing I can think of off the top of my head just waking up. Overall I think the consistency of tempo that Merfolk is able to keep up makes it a more resilient deck to various match ups that it may encounter. I do love the Brave the Elements left field alpha strikes for the win though. Not many people run that card or even know about it and it makes for some dropped jaws haha (:
Yeah, it seems like the deck is probably a poor metagame choice right now. Most popular decks are not even playing board sweepers, so having a deck that is more resistant to that is not appealing at the moment. Most blue decks don't even run Supreme Verdict in the main deck anymore, as it's too slow and often doesn't work anyway. Creatures have gotten so good at being resilient to board sweepers (except for a miracle'd terminus, but can't really count on that happening). I suppose this deck would die to a mutilate too, but nobody plays that card anyway.
I like this! It feels right somehow. But did you consider Nameless Inversion ?? I love playing this in my Haakon deck, but Path is more reliable for sure. Also you cannot play Mutavault from graveyard with Haakon, right?
Mutavault's ability to become a creature can only be activated when in play. In the graveyard it is a simply non-basic land.
Short answer: no
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Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Today we played standard at FNM, but one other guy and I decided we would play modern for our round instead of standard since we've played each other alot. The game ended up being 2 - 1, me losing. He played a mana ramp deck that ramped into about 30 free floating mana by turn 5 and played Spawnsire of Ulamog. He would then be able to pay the 20 and played about 6 crazy Edlrazi cards. I was only able to beat him once because of a good first hand and a hand that involved Ghost Quarter. I'd like to make my deck faster, but how should I? The other thing - even though I had indestructibility on my guys and protection from some colors (like brave the elements and mirran crusader), edlrazi is no color... any way to get around that, or not at all?
I don't think these decks are positioned well in modern. If you had played Merfolk for example, you would have been able to counter something just at the right time to foil his perfect hand and smash in before he got a chance to play the eldrazi for example. Or bounce something to slow him down. Etc.
As someone else noted, these decks are resiliant to board wipes, but board wipes are so neutered right now (and probably will be for some time) that playing a deck that's good against something that nobody plays is probably not the right metagame call.
I think the problems with this deck are not really about making little fine tunings and such. The problem is that the deck is poorly positioned against a lot of the powerful, crazy stuff people often do in modern. You either need to counter what they are doing rather than race, and if you want to race, you need to do something even more powerful than they are doing (like Goyo's revenging a Griselbrand into play).
The R/G aggro deck is much better than the White Knights decks against the field. It just has better cards and more power, and its creatures are quite resilient to spot removal but not so much to board wipes. Even when played in a metagame where there's very little board wipes present, it's still losing. That should probably tell us that weenie strategies in general are bad right now when the very best weenie strategy is still not winning. Resiliency or not, it's just not very important right now.
Sadly, if you want to play a creature deck, then Melira pod is the deck to play, because while it's not as resilient, the ability to tutor for everything you want in any situation is just more powerful than getting damage in. Having a bunch of infinite combos in the deck doesn't hurt its chances against everything else either, which is why it's the best deck right now.
Basically, you have to be as good as a deck like pod to succeed if you want to use creatures exclusively, because everything else in Modern is just so powerful. If WW is to succeed, it needs a threat like a turn 4 Armageddon, which sadly doesn't exist in Modern. While it won't shut out Goryo's Revenge style decks, it would give you game against everything else.
I don't think these decks are positioned well in modern. If you had played Merfolk for example, you would have been able to counter something just at the right time to foil his perfect hand and smash in before he got a chance to play the eldrazi for example. Or bounce something to slow him down. Etc.
As someone else noted, these decks are resiliant to board wipes, but board wipes are so neutered right now (and probably will be for some time) that playing a deck that's good against something that nobody plays is probably not the right metagame call.
I think the problems with this deck are not really about making little fine tunings and such. The problem is that the deck is poorly positioned against a lot of the powerful, crazy stuff people often do in modern. You either need to counter what they are doing rather than race, and if you want to race, you need to do something even more powerful than they are doing (like Goyo's revenging a Griselbrand into play).
The R/G aggro deck is much better than the White Knights decks against the field. It just has better cards and more power, and its creatures are quite resilient to spot removal but not so much to board wipes. Even when played in a metagame where there's very little board wipes present, it's still losing. That should probably tell us that weenie strategies in general are bad right now when the very best weenie strategy is still not winning. Resiliency or not, it's just not very important right now.
Sadly, if you want to play a creature deck, then Melira pod is the deck to play, because while it's not as resilient, the ability to tutor for everything you want in any situation is just more powerful than getting damage in. Having a bunch of infinite combos in the deck doesn't hurt its chances against everything else either, which is why it's the best deck right now.
Basically, you have to be as good as a deck like pod to succeed if you want to use creatures exclusively, because everything else in Modern is just so powerful. If WW is to succeed, it needs a threat like a turn 4 Armageddon, which sadly doesn't exist in Modern. While it won't shut out Goryo's Revenge style decks, it would give you game against everything else.
Unfortunately whenever removals are too cheap and efficient, creature based decks usually suffer. Especially in a format whereby there are no real penalties for playing multiple colors in a deck, a deck can simply run all the best/cheap removals (UWR or Junk) - basically just disrupt/destroy all your creatures and take over from there. I think first and foremost any player thinking of playing Knights shouldn't be under any sort of illusions this is a tier one strategy. I'll just say, go ahead and have fun without whatever deck you want here, and by the way, Knights with protection could come up as a real hoser against some decks ;).
Also, regarding the part you mentioned about racing against other decks, this is an extremely relevant comment :nod:. Which is why I advocate strongly on playing Rancor. I cannot reiterate how many times Rancor has managed to help outrace opponents. Sideboarding Mass destruction to work with Knight Exemplar is also potentially very useful in races against fellow aggro decks.
All right, my fellow (Mirran) Crusaders. I need help figuring out what I'm doing with my Knights. I've finally stopped being cheap enough to go out and pick up some Aether Vials, and... Twin happened. And I don't mean "I went 4-0, then I got pounded by Twin." No, no, I'm talking about going 2-3 against FIVE TWIN DECKS IN A ROW. Out of 27 people present, I got FIVE TWIN DECKS. So, I need your guys' help in finding a balanced sideboard, maindeck, and also: if you guys have any suggestions on what to sideboard for these people, that'd be great. And what TRUELY pissed me off was the fact that it was supposed to be a tribal modern week, with the big 3 (Elves, Gob-gobs, and Merfolk) banned*.
Anyhoot, that's enough ranting. Please, viciously and savagely beat the noob outta my decklist, and tell it why it's a bad fluffy.
*Me and my friends had gotten enough people (all 22 of us) to talk the store into sanctioning a modern tournament. The 22 of us had all agreed to go with a tribal, non-main 3 set of decks, and then those five.... *ahem* PEOPLE came in and pulled some crap about how the store had no right to impose such restrictions on an otherwise open tournament, blah blah blah.....
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Why care about the past, when the present can smack you in the face?:halo:
I believe you have to hit their sac outlet because they can respond to the purge targeting redcap by saccing it. Might be wrong in my thinking though.
It's worse than that.
Player A: I sac redcap to my aristocrat, ability on sack. Recap goes to yard, Persist on stack.
Player B: No responses.
Player A: Persist resolves, return Recap to play, Meleria prevents counter. Recap's ETB trigger on the stack above the aristocrat's trigger.
Player B: Okay, before Redcap's ETB ability resolves, I have a response. Celestial Purge targeting aristocrat.
Player A: Okay, in response to Celestial Purge, activate aristocrats' ability again, and repeat the whole loop I just did, saccing my Recap before it's ETB trigger resolves each time. It's all instant-speed. Do you have another response for any point in the loop?
Player B: No.
Player A: Great, I'll repeat the loop 4,000,000,000 times. Then I'll let the stack resolve.
Player B: Doesn't aristocrat get exiled?
Player A: Sure, but you're dead long before the stack gets that far down. I can use one of the aristocrat's abilities to make her pro white anyway.
Player B: <<sadface>>
No its not a catch all, but it certainly helps and in many different situations it'll do the job. The only time it won't work is if they have multiple pieces out on the board when it's Melira Pod. I think it has enough situations that are viable that I include it in the sideboard. Also fantastic against Aggro Loam, Jund, RDW, BG Cloud, and several other decks.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Alright so my Mono-W knights deck has evolved to a Mono-B mostly knights deck....I'm not even sure this is the right forum for it but it still has knights right? Any C+C is welcome, I can explain card choices and whatnot etc etc.
So there we have it, I'm calling it Haakon's Unholy Army for the time being. It's shown itself to be pretty strong thus far and I'm gonna keep testing it this week.
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If you're gonna come at the King, you'd best not miss.
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Paladin en vec straight up beats this guy out on all counts for me, as protection is just superior to the ability to avoid targeting.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
What are your thoughts about side-boarding Dismember? Yeah it cost 4 life for us, but I generally make that up with my lifelink guys. Plus I run four Marsh Flats so I really could splash in some swamps if I really wanted to (I haven't yet because of the lifelink). But being able to trash an indestructible dude... pretty cool. So far the loss of life hasn't hurt me to the point where it has cost me matches. It's a sideboard card, so if I'm throwing it at something, it's totally worth it. Just wondering what others think.
Dismember is a fantastic sideboard card if your meta requires it. It's my favourite removal spell behind Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt. My meta doesn't have things that need it, but I would definitely recommend it if you're finding it helpful. (:
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Maybe it is just me and my endless matchups against UWR tempo and RB Burn, but the lifegain from Knight of Meadowgrain usuallly just pull me away from lethal burn to the face or gives me a few more turns to outrace them, basically the 2-4 life point gained does messes with their equation and tempo and buy me sufficient time.
Agree on Paladin en-vec superiority here, at least on paper. Seriously I don't know whether a Knight deck with 8 lifelink creatures would just outgrind opponents :rolleyes:, worth playtesting over I guess ;).
First post? Welcome to Modern Knights ;)!
Pretty much as what JPoJohnson said below, if we need additional removal Dismember is a very good option, in the worst situation of mana screw we can still cast it, and it shouldn't be difficult to splash a little black into the deck, and it's even better since you already have Marsh Flats. A few Godless Shrine and you are set to go.
I remember the likes of Despatch via the Aether Vial or Darksteel Citadel for metacraft route Or Oblivion Ring to catch all including other permanents, but I guess at the moment Dismember is the easiest to pull it off at the moment. Honestly I did forgot about this card after SOM left the Standard format. And I think this card is definitely worth a mention in the primer somewhere :thumbsup:!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Second round was against Zombies, White Knight and Mirran Crusader didn't care much about his creatures, especially when backed up by triple Knight Exemplar.
Final round was against another Pod deck, this time I didn't draw any Path to Exile and both games ate one million copies of Pestermite to the face thanks to Kiki-Jiki.
This is the list I ran:
LANDS
x20 Plains
CREATURES x28
x4 Student of Warfare
x4 Knight Exemplar
x4 Leonin Skyhunter
x4 Hero of Bladehold
x3 Accorder Paladin
x2 Mirran Crusader
x2 Stillmoon Cavalier
x2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
x1 White Knight
x1 Knight of Meadowgrain
x1 Knight of the White Orchid
OTHER x12
x4 Path to Exile
x4 Brave the Elements
x2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
x1 Oblivion Ring
x1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Fiendslayer Paladin would be good if Paladin en-Vec didn't exist. I agree with the others that Paladin en-Vec is protected against all red damage and red creatures and all black creatures and black targeted removal. Red is basically shut down, since nearly all of its non-targeted, removal-style spells deal damage.
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
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Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
Why would you play this over any of the other 2cmc 2/2 First Strike + Other ability knights?
The only reason I can think of would be because he doesn't cost WW.
I am interested too.
I loved playing White Weenie decks back in standard during the Mirage/Tempest block, which happened to play quite a few knights, but not always. It was a very good deck back then with all of the prevalence of mono red, and the threat of Armageddon and the usage of Tithe made them good against control or even combo.
But I don't want to play a Knight deck just because it's a Knight deck. I generally think it's bad to start with, "I want to make a Knight deck," or "I want to make a Dragon's deck." That's not really a strategy for winning.
So I would love to know how it does against the top decks, and how it compares to something like Merfolk, which is essentially trying to do the same thing but with tempo advantages and counters.
I run both Knights and Merfolk, so I think I can shed some light on comparing the two decks.
Knights are far more resilient to board wipes in my opinion. You can drop 2 critters and start to get back on your feet whereas Merfolk sometimes lose all their momentum. Knights also has some of their 'lords' come in the form of Enchantments (since they run Honor of the Pure so board wipes aren't as fiesty.
The indestructibility of knights after you drop an Exemplar makes it so that you can do something like bash face with Knight of Meadowgrain when you get into a locked match for constant life gain (or with a flier or whatever).
Overall, I think that Merfolk is a little bit better since cards like Remand allow for keeping the tempo and Spreading Seas makes for a more permanent evade than Brave the Elements. The include of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for the sideboard hurts the spot removal of many decks out there.
I realize I'm babbling on and probably not actually getting my thoughts out/being helpful, so I'll just list the main points for a tl;dr section haha (:
tl;dr
Mono U Merfolk
1. Merfolk has the ability to keep the tempo up more consistently (Islandwalk, Spreading Seas, Remand
2. Merfolk has answers to decks while Knights simply try to outrace/outsurvive
Knights
1. Knights have the indestructibility advantage in certain situations.
2. Knights are able to permanently answer problem creatures (Path to Exile whereas Merfolk typically only temporarily).
There are several other comparisons, but nothing I can think of off the top of my head just waking up. Overall I think the consistency of tempo that Merfolk is able to keep up makes it a more resilient deck to various match ups that it may encounter. I do love the Brave the Elements left field alpha strikes for the win though. Not many people run that card or even know about it and it makes for some dropped jaws haha (:
For reference:
13 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Cavern of Souls
Creatures (27)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Spellskite
3 Remand
2 Thirst for Knowledge
4 AEther Vial
3 Spreading Seas
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spreading Seas
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dispel
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
2 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Mutavault
4 Aether Vial
4 Student of Warfare
4 Gravecrawler
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight Examplar
3 Haakon, Stromgrald Scourge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Smallpox
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Wrath of God
1 Thoughtseize
1 Path to Exile
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Stony Silence
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Torpor Orb
Mutavault's ability to become a creature can only be activated when in play. In the graveyard it is a simply non-basic land.
Short answer: no
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Here's my current deck list:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Light from Within
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
12 Plains
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Sejiri Steppe
Melira Pod - Modern
As someone else noted, these decks are resiliant to board wipes, but board wipes are so neutered right now (and probably will be for some time) that playing a deck that's good against something that nobody plays is probably not the right metagame call.
I think the problems with this deck are not really about making little fine tunings and such. The problem is that the deck is poorly positioned against a lot of the powerful, crazy stuff people often do in modern. You either need to counter what they are doing rather than race, and if you want to race, you need to do something even more powerful than they are doing (like Goyo's revenging a Griselbrand into play).
The R/G aggro deck is much better than the White Knights decks against the field. It just has better cards and more power, and its creatures are quite resilient to spot removal but not so much to board wipes. Even when played in a metagame where there's very little board wipes present, it's still losing. That should probably tell us that weenie strategies in general are bad right now when the very best weenie strategy is still not winning. Resiliency or not, it's just not very important right now.
Sadly, if you want to play a creature deck, then Melira pod is the deck to play, because while it's not as resilient, the ability to tutor for everything you want in any situation is just more powerful than getting damage in. Having a bunch of infinite combos in the deck doesn't hurt its chances against everything else either, which is why it's the best deck right now.
Basically, you have to be as good as a deck like pod to succeed if you want to use creatures exclusively, because everything else in Modern is just so powerful. If WW is to succeed, it needs a threat like a turn 4 Armageddon, which sadly doesn't exist in Modern. While it won't shut out Goryo's Revenge style decks, it would give you game against everything else.
Unfortunately whenever removals are too cheap and efficient, creature based decks usually suffer. Especially in a format whereby there are no real penalties for playing multiple colors in a deck, a deck can simply run all the best/cheap removals (UWR or Junk) - basically just disrupt/destroy all your creatures and take over from there. I think first and foremost any player thinking of playing Knights shouldn't be under any sort of illusions this is a tier one strategy. I'll just say, go ahead and have fun without whatever deck you want here, and by the way, Knights with protection could come up as a real hoser against some decks ;).
Also, regarding the part you mentioned about racing against other decks, this is an extremely relevant comment :nod:. Which is why I advocate strongly on playing Rancor. I cannot reiterate how many times Rancor has managed to help outrace opponents. Sideboarding Mass destruction to work with Knight Exemplar is also potentially very useful in races against fellow aggro decks.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Anyhoot, that's enough ranting. Please, viciously and savagely beat the noob outta my decklist, and tell it why it's a bad fluffy.
4x Student of Warfare
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
2x White Knight
3x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Knight Exemplar
1x Fiendslayer Paladin
Non-Creatures:
1x Basilisk Collar
4x Aether Vial
4x Path to Exile
1x Brave the Elements
2x Serra's Blessing
2x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Armored Ascension
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
16x Plains
4x Cavern of Souls
2X Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
3x Wrath of God
4x Paladin en-Vec
*Me and my friends had gotten enough people (all 22 of us) to talk the store into sanctioning a modern tournament. The 22 of us had all agreed to go with a tribal, non-main 3 set of decks, and then those five.... *ahem* PEOPLE came in and pulled some crap about how the store had no right to impose such restrictions on an otherwise open tournament, blah blah blah.....
Stops Pod from doing infinite damage (as well as the ability to remove one of their 2 sac outlets) and can stop Kiki/Twin from going anywhere.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
Check out my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ThyrixSyx
Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
It's worse than that.
Player A: I sac redcap to my aristocrat, ability on sack. Recap goes to yard, Persist on stack.
Player B: No responses.
Player A: Persist resolves, return Recap to play, Meleria prevents counter. Recap's ETB trigger on the stack above the aristocrat's trigger.
Player B: Okay, before Redcap's ETB ability resolves, I have a response. Celestial Purge targeting aristocrat.
Player A: Okay, in response to Celestial Purge, activate aristocrats' ability again, and repeat the whole loop I just did, saccing my Recap before it's ETB trigger resolves each time. It's all instant-speed. Do you have another response for any point in the loop?
Player B: No.
Player A: Great, I'll repeat the loop 4,000,000,000 times. Then I'll let the stack resolve.
Player B: Doesn't aristocrat get exiled?
Player A: Sure, but you're dead long before the stack gets that far down. I can use one of the aristocrat's abilities to make her pro white anyway.
Player B: <<sadface>>
1. Remove Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker in response to his ability.
2. Remove Splinter Twin in response to the ability.
3. Remove Murderous Redcap before they have the sac outlet.
4. Remove Cartel Aristocrat before they have the combo.
5. Remove Viscera Seer in response to the sac.
6. Remove Orzhov Pontiff before they wipe the board in their favor.
No its not a catch all, but it certainly helps and in many different situations it'll do the job. The only time it won't work is if they have multiple pieces out on the board when it's Melira Pod. I think it has enough situations that are viable that I include it in the sideboard. Also fantastic against Aggro Loam, Jund, RDW, BG Cloud, and several other decks.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
Check out my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ThyrixSyx
Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Knight of Infamy
2 Dark Confidant
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
4 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Ashenmoor Liege
2 Nameless Inversion
2 Dismember
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Land
2 Marsh Flats
4 Mutavault
14 Swamps
3 Torpor Orb
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Illness in the Ranks
2 Damnation
1 Deathmark
2 Memoricide
1 Thoughtseize
So there we have it, I'm calling it Haakon's Unholy Army for the time being. It's shown itself to be pretty strong thus far and I'm gonna keep testing it this week.