The WBUG decklist you played against is pretty weird, it seems like it is splashing B purely for Dark Confidant, yet at the same time had so many high casting cost creatures spells and Elspeth, Knight Errant (some with double GG and WW too). Also, it has so many shocks (probably fetches) as well with CIPT lands, your opponent seems to be dumping all the best cards from 4 colors into a deck. The deck could probably lose to life loss from it's own fetches/shocks/confidant, mana screw or inconsistent draws.
It sounds like I was playing against "GoodStuff.dec" rather than any concentrated strategy. He was playing low-casting spells and manlands, but he definitely took a lot of damage from early shockland and Dark Confidant. He eventually let the Shocks enter tapped, but he already had 7 lands at that point.
Unfortunately by the time it gets to mid-game, he was always going to have the upper hand (due to the sheer number of bomb spells in his deck). Yeah, regeneration is very irritating, I also have my fair share of struggles against them, and normally use Elspeth-Knight Errant to tilt the advantage towards myself again - since most of the hexproof & regenerating creatures doesn't have flying. And I realised your list doesnt run her. Perhaps you could look at either running equipment or Elspeth? At least Wrath of God doesn't wipe off Elspeth unlike an equipped creature. Something to think about.
I managed to purchase an EvT version of Elspeth, Knight Errant on eBay for a modest cost. I'm going to add 1 to the deck. I am looking for a second, but I'll stop there.
With an Indestructable lifelink Knight of Meadowgrain against B decks, which usually run destroy type removal rather than Exile (other than Sever the Bloodline which nobody plays anyway - do look out for Dismember though), he was never going to win the attrition wars. This is where Tribal Knights shine. There are also quite a few knights with protection from B which makes these matchups even easier.
Well, I don't have any Knights with protection from black in the deck or in the sideboard, so winning against black is not guaranteed with my set up. I nearly always configure my deck for an unknown meta. It's easier to detect the meta in a tournament situation, since more people are likely to run the good cards.
Managing to get 2 G when most of the lands are producing W? Hard luck here although it was good to know the fourth land could have completely turn the tables around.
Yes, how often does THAT happen? Where were my white mana lands?
I suggested replacing Sword of Light and Shadow with Elspeth-Knight Errant earlier but upon reading your matchup against Allies I have second thoughts again! I have also used the Sword to recur(recycle) my Qasali Pridemage(after destroying artifacts/enchantment) & Phyrexian Metamorph(after killing legends) and this combination is really backbreaking and give me the mid and late game reach against many other decks.
It definitely worked against these matchups where the opponent has no artifact removal. Against the decks with artifact removal, it doesn't last too long and becomes a tempo impediment.
It sounds like I was playing against "GoodStuff.dec" rather than any concentrated strategy. He was playing low-casting spells and manlands, but he definitely took a lot of damage from early shockland and Dark Confidant. He eventually let the Shocks enter tapped, but he already had 7 lands at that point.
Good Stuffs LOLZ , I actually felt Knights have a positive matchups against deck like these, due to the consistency we can achieve on our side.
I managed to purchase an EvT version of Elspeth, Knight Errant on eBay for a modest cost. I'm going to add 1 to the deck. I am looking for a second, but I'll stop there.
2 should more than suffice. You are on the way!!!;)
You probably play against Tier 1.5 or Tier 1 decks, so you're welcome to give it a test drive.
Yup, when it comes to paper magic, all my mates are usually playing Tier 1 and Tier 1.5 decks. I'm usually the one coming up with rogue tribal decks like Knights and Ninjas. I do want to test out Wall of Omens and Knight of the Holy Nimbus someday.
Well, I don't have any Knights with protection from black in the deck or in the sideboard, so winning against black is not guaranteed with my set up. I nearly always configure my deck for an unknown meta. It's easier to detect the meta in a tournament situation, since more people are likely to run the good cards.
Same here, I don't have any protection from black either, at one stage I was playing a few copies of White Knight and Mirran Crusader, White Knight was surprisingly relevant with his pro-black. He actually won me a few games.
Yes, how often does THAT happen? Where were my white mana lands?
I run even more W lands than you, and I still get struck with G and colorless lands more than a few times (probably once every 10 games). Curiously it happens more in paper magic than Cockatrice. Then again, there are times it happens when I had a opening hand Aether Vial, and in this situations I probably forgot that I was ever colored screwed.
It definitely worked against these matchups where the opponent has no artifact removal. Against the decks with artifact removal, it doesn't last too long and becomes a tempo impediment.
Usually it is good enough once the Sword connects once or twice, anyway after the first game, opponent's might be forced to sideboard or keep their artifact removals for the few artifacts you have in the deck.
3 Vials? - maybe although I don't recommend. 1 or 2 Vials is just weird, feels like a pointless addition to me.
I have seen deck lists with 3 Vials. Based on the probability of drawing a Vial, I think it barely works (sorry, "just works" in my previous post should be read "just enough" or "just barely"). After trying 1-2 Vials, I agree that it is pointless.
I am thinking of just going without Vials and selling the cards. They very rarely worked for me, and just having dead draws for the Vials after the first makes me want to find other cards to replace them.
It's also an emotional factor for me too. I would rather draw a land than see Aether Vial. At least land is immediately usable mana or utility in most cases (not counting ETB tapped). Aether Vial does nothing for a turn.
Quote from Nabbydian »
I run even more W lands than you, and I still get struck with G and colorless lands more than a few times (probably once every 10 games). Curiously it happens more in paper magic than Cockatrice. Then again, there are times it happens when I had a opening hand Aether Vial, and in this situations I probably forgot that I was ever colored screwed.
You're running one less fetchland in your configuration in the first page. (I run 4) Maybe I should do the same.
I feel though that the combat tricks gained from Vial are great, and they make the deck shine much more. Even a T3 vial can break a late game with a vialed Exemplar T6.
I have had that happen, but not often enough for my preferences. That relies on the other deck being slow or having a bad day. Most times, I am losing, and drawing a Vial late game does not help me.
I have seen deck lists with 3 Vials. Based on the probability of drawing a Vial, I think it barely works (sorry, "just works" in my previous post should be read "just enough" or "just barely"). After trying 1-2 Vials, I agree that it is pointless.
I am thinking of just going without Vials and selling the cards. They very rarely worked for me, and just having dead draws for the Vials after the first makes me want to find other cards to replace them.
It's also an emotional factor for me too. I would rather draw a land than see Aether Vial. At least land is immediately usable mana or utility in most cases (not counting ETB tapped). Aether Vial does nothing for a turn.
You're running one less fetchland in your configuration in the first page. (I run 4) Maybe I should do the same.
Who knows you may change your mind on them later on? You could swap them in and out of the deck for different knight variants.
I know how sucky it feels when you draw a Vial when you need threats. What to do. That's the drawback of Vial, but like Bewble mentioned below, there are situations where a mid-game Vial could still be useful.
Our mixture of lands are quite similar now. I think they are probably personal perferences. Just need to find the right mix you are comfortable with.
I feel though that the combat tricks gained from Vial are great, and they make the deck shine much more. Even a T3 vial can break a late game with a vialed Exemplar T6.
That's why we play Vial! I'm keeping my Vials for now.:)
They replaced White and Black Knight for some exalted Knights. :/
Yes, some vanilla exalted knights.
Are they playable? I was envisioning a build with exalted knights and pump spells like Honor of the Pure, Knight Exemplar and Adaptive Automation, but attacking with one exalted knight per turn doesn't seems like a good matchups against tokens(block all day) or flyers(too slow and late). I could imagine a big exalted Leonin Skyhunter swinging for FTW though ;).
I'm still waiting for M13 to spoil a knight with a better ETB ability. The 3 new knights in M13 has been quite vanilla so far.
Knight exemplar is good enough for an ETB ability. When your opponent tries to remove another knight, you vial in a exemplar.
Of course, some more ETB effects would be cool to have though. Knight exemplar being about the only knight with this sort of utility outside KotR is the main reason this deck isn't quite tier 1.
And yes, exalted really doesn't benefit this deck too much with the lord effects we have.
Knight exemplar is good enough for an ETB ability. When your opponent tries to remove another knight, you vial in a exemplar.
Of course, some more ETB effects would be cool to have though. Knight exemplar being about the only knight with this sort of utility outside KotR is the main reason this deck isn't quite tier 1.
And yes, exalted really doesn't benefit this deck too much with the lord effects we have.
This trick with Aether Vial is one of the favorite and most commonly used in a Knight Tribal, and should I add - most famous trick?
Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head. Other than the likes of KotR and KotWO (which isn't exactly overwhelming), their is a lack of outstanding ETB effects or abilities which can bring Knights to another level. What Knights has though, is protection from colors and first strike, Lifelink (from KoM) etc, which is mostly combat tricks more than anything else.
There are a few Exalted knights though, and Sigiled Paladin and Ethercaste Knight comes to mind, but I'm skeptical since these creatures does not bring anything else to the table.
There lies the decision-making tension of Aether Vial. 2 (for the 2 CMC knights) or wait to 3 charge counters on it (for Exemplar and KotR)?
Yep, that is why my decks that run Vial have a definite lump in their curve, so that keeping the first vial at X counters is almost always the strongest play. That decision is too easy to mess up in a deck that has a good curve. Modern Death and Taxes is a prime example, as most of our creatures are at the 3cmc point, so getting your Vial to three counters is just the best choice baring poor draws.
Yep, that is why my decks that run Vial have a definite lump in their curve, so that keeping the first vial at X counters is almost always the strongest play. That decision is too easy to mess up in a deck that has a good curve. Modern Death and Taxes is a prime example, as most of our creatures are at the 3cmc point, so getting your Vial to three counters is just the best choice baring poor draws.
With my Knights deck having only eight 3 CMC cards, letting Aether Vial go to 3 charge counters is probably not a good play for me. The lump in my mana curve of the deck is 2.
There are a few Exalted knights though, and Sigiled Paladin and Ethercaste Knight comes to mind, but I'm skeptical since these creatures does not bring anything else to the table.
I know I had played around a bit with both of those Knights in various builds, but they were just underwhelming. I'm not excited about the new exalted Knights...wish they would have just reprinted Silver Knight or another decent 1-drop!
What are people using as their 2-drop Knights? Right now I am running a set of Puresteel Paladin and a set of Knight of the White Orchid, but I've been pretty disappointed in KotWO, even with running a set of Path to Exile and a few Ghost Quarters. I was looking at Knight of Meadowgrain, but found I usually am swinging with a Basilisk Collar in play anyway, so I was wondering what other people were having decent success with. I've been trying out Knight of the Holy Nimbus, White Knight, and White Shield Crusader (for the potential evasion), but wonder if there's a better option somewhere. I'd love to just play black and run something like Black Knight (much more relevant protection) and Dark Confidant (I firmly believe card advantage just wins in Modern/Legacy) with some more disruption/removal, but the mana is a bit rough. I guess the other option would be to just run more 3-drops.
Knight of Meadowgrain is my 2 CMC Knight. I don't care if its Lifelink is redundant with Basilisk Collar. I have a whole host of other creatures that do not have lifelink that would benefit. Lifegain is a real lifesaver in the games I have played.
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Just tried to play some games on Cockatrice tonight. It looked like everybody who wanted to play Modern wanted to play competitive decks.
There was one game where I started first. I played a Cavern of Souls targeting Knight, and the opponent quit the game. I guess he decided it wasn't a competitive deck to play against me.
It's disheartening when the Knight deck totally folds to combo.
There lies the decision-making tension of Aether Vial. 2 (for the 2 CMC knights) or wait to 3 charge counters on it (for Exemplar and KotR)?
And this trick won't help if they exile a Knight.
The problem is - odds of drawing a 2 CMC knight is higher than a 3 CMC Knight, therefore you will tend to draw into a 2 CMC knight and regret ever upping the vial counter to 3. But on the other hand, Vial counters at 3 is more devastating, since that is when a Knight Exemplar or a beefy KotR can come down.
Yep, that is why my decks that run Vial have a definite lump in their curve, so that keeping the first vial at X counters is almost always the strongest play. That decision is too easy to mess up in a deck that has a good curve. Modern Death and Taxes is a prime example, as most of our creatures are at the 3cmc point, so getting your Vial to three counters is just the best choice baring poor draws.
I can understand where you are coming from, but doing that also means that is an over-reliance on Aether Vial. And not having Vial possibly mean you are dropping creatures of the same power level every turn, even with consistent land drop. I still prefer to run a smooth curve, to compensate for games that I don't draw Vial.
I know I had played around a bit with both of those Knights in various builds, but they were just underwhelming. I'm not excited about the new exalted Knights...wish they would have just reprinted Silver Knight or another decent 1-drop!
Precisely! Those exalted knights are simply not good enough. I'm a bit weary of these sub-standard knights which add nothing to Modern Knights. Even a reprint of Silver Knight could be useful, seeing there are so many burn removal spells and Terminate etc.
What are people using as their 2-drop Knights? Right now I am running a set of Puresteel Paladin and a set of Knight of the White Orchid, but I've been pretty disappointed in KotWO, even with running a set of Path to Exile and a few Ghost Quarters. I was looking at Knight of Meadowgrain, but found I usually am swinging with a Basilisk Collar in play anyway, so I was wondering what other people were having decent success with. I've been trying out Knight of the Holy Nimbus, White Knight, and White Shield Crusader (for the potential evasion), but wonder if there's a better option somewhere. I'd love to just play black and run something like Black Knight (much more relevant protection) and Dark Confidant (I firmly believe card advantage just wins in Modern/Legacy) with some more disruption/removal, but the mana is a bit rough. I guess the other option would be to just run more 3-drops.
I concur with you on KotWO, i'm starting to find the ability less and less useful, and with you finding them disappointing even with Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter I guess the writing is on the wall for this Knight. Somehow he seems better in Legacy then Modern at the moment. I'm running Knight of Meadowgrain and Knight of the White Orchid as my 2cc knights at the moment, I might try out Knight of the Holy Nimbus, I can see why White Knight is not so important here, since against deck with black removal spells I'm usually able to play my indestructable in against them. Knights are more afraid of the exile spells especially rampant with white based decks.
I agree splashing B will be difficult, however if your Puresteel list runs Mox Opal, it should make the mana smoother. Therefore it is not that far-fetched to have Dark Confidant or even Black Knight.
Knight of Meadowgrain is my 2 CMC Knight. I don't care if its Lifelink is redundant with Basilisk Collar. I have a whole host of other creatures that do not have lifelink that would benefit. Lifegain is a real lifesaver in the games I have played.
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Just tried to play some games on Cockatrice tonight. It looked like everybody who wanted to play Modern wanted to play competitive decks.
There was one game where I started first. I played a Cavern of Souls targeting Knight, and the opponent quit the game. I guess he decided it wasn't a competitive deck to play against me.
It's disheartening when the Knight deck totally folds to combo.
That's the problem with online games against people you don't know, there will always be rage quit etc.
Well you can always setup your sideboard to have a chance against combo in the second game. I won against Sneak Attack and Show and Tell decks with my Legacy Knights in a local tournament last year, they didnt had the perfect hand to combo off though ;).
Although I can't reconcile the art with it's power/toughness (they look much stronger than a vanilla 2/1 :rolleyes:). It's an amazing art nontheless. I can't wait to get foil playsets of both!
Yeah, the M13 exalted knights are good to see, but too meek otherwise.
Rancor is a very interesting addition. +2 power & trample to a first strike knight can really rack up the damage very quickly. Playing Rancor might probably mean dropping an equipment or so?
Rancor is a very interesting addition. +2 power & trample to a first strike knight can really rack up the damage very quickly. Playing Rancor might probably mean dropping an equipment or so?
I'm considering dropping my Sword of Light and Shadow. In the games I have played where Knight of the Reliquary (KotR) gets really large (6/6 or higher -- greater if Knight Exemplar is present) and no enemy removal spell or ability is in sight, KotR can be chump blocked by a 1/1 token. Rancor would fix that quickly.
I'm surprised Knight of the Reliquary actually gets that big for you...so many decks run graveyard hate, that I couldn't ever imagine it ever being more threatening than some of the other 3-drops we have at our disposal. Green brings some other good stuff to the table (Noble Hierarch, Qasali Pridemage, now Rancor) if you run green, but I've never seen KotR actually grow to 5/5+ and stick around. I think Rancor gives a huge boost to double strikers more than anything else...deals massive damage and no more worrying about chump blockers. I still use O-Naginata for that purpose, but Rancor is such a resiliant card...I can't imagine any decks with green not considering it.
I'm surprised Knight of the Reliquary actually gets that big for you...so many decks run graveyard hate, that I couldn't ever imagine it ever being more threatening than some of the other 3-drops we have at our disposal.
These are semi-casual games, not competitive games, so that does tend to happen for me. But the average for me is 4/4 or 5/5 (if I have dumped fetchlands and Horizon Canopy into the graveyard by then).
What usually happens in my games is that my opponent spends all their removal cards on my other Knights first. I usually cast or play KotR later or draw into it later.
Green brings some other good stuff to the table (Noble Hierarch, Qasali Pridemage, now Rancor) if you run green, but I've never seen KotR actually grow to 5/5+ and stick around. I think Rancor gives a huge boost to double strikers more than anything else...deals massive damage and no more worrying about chump blockers. I still use O-Naginata for that purpose, but Rancor is such a resiliant card...I can't imagine any decks with green not considering it.
If Noble Hierarch is reprinted in M13, I might find room for them in my Knights deck.
Rancor is not invulnerable. If an opponent responds to my casting of it by removing the targeted creature, Rancor stays in the graveyard.
It sounds like I was playing against "GoodStuff.dec" rather than any concentrated strategy. He was playing low-casting spells and manlands, but he definitely took a lot of damage from early shockland and Dark Confidant. He eventually let the Shocks enter tapped, but he already had 7 lands at that point.
I managed to purchase an EvT version of Elspeth, Knight Errant on eBay for a modest cost. I'm going to add 1 to the deck. I am looking for a second, but I'll stop there.
I agree. It really is 0 or 4 Vials. 1 or 2 Vials doesn't do enough. 3 Vial combination just works based on the probabilities.
You probably play against Tier 1.5 or Tier 1 decks, so you're welcome to give it a test drive.
Well, I don't have any Knights with protection from black in the deck or in the sideboard, so winning against black is not guaranteed with my set up. I nearly always configure my deck for an unknown meta. It's easier to detect the meta in a tournament situation, since more people are likely to run the good cards.
Yes, how often does THAT happen? Where were my white mana lands?
It definitely worked against these matchups where the opponent has no artifact removal. Against the decks with artifact removal, it doesn't last too long and becomes a tempo impediment.
Good Stuffs LOLZ , I actually felt Knights have a positive matchups against deck like these, due to the consistency we can achieve on our side.
2 should more than suffice. You are on the way!!!;)
3 Vials? - maybe although I don't recommend. 1 or 2 Vials is just weird, feels like a pointless addition to me.
Yup, when it comes to paper magic, all my mates are usually playing Tier 1 and Tier 1.5 decks. I'm usually the one coming up with rogue tribal decks like Knights and Ninjas. I do want to test out Wall of Omens and Knight of the Holy Nimbus someday.
Same here, I don't have any protection from black either, at one stage I was playing a few copies of White Knight and Mirran Crusader, White Knight was surprisingly relevant with his pro-black. He actually won me a few games.
I run even more W lands than you, and I still get struck with G and colorless lands more than a few times (probably once every 10 games). Curiously it happens more in paper magic than Cockatrice. Then again, there are times it happens when I had a opening hand Aether Vial, and in this situations I probably forgot that I was ever colored screwed.
Usually it is good enough once the Sword connects once or twice, anyway after the first game, opponent's might be forced to sideboard or keep their artifact removals for the few artifacts you have in the deck.
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I have seen deck lists with 3 Vials. Based on the probability of drawing a Vial, I think it barely works (sorry, "just works" in my previous post should be read "just enough" or "just barely"). After trying 1-2 Vials, I agree that it is pointless.
I am thinking of just going without Vials and selling the cards. They very rarely worked for me, and just having dead draws for the Vials after the first makes me want to find other cards to replace them.
It's also an emotional factor for me too. I would rather draw a land than see Aether Vial. At least land is immediately usable mana or utility in most cases (not counting ETB tapped). Aether Vial does nothing for a turn.
You're running one less fetchland in your configuration in the first page. (I run 4) Maybe I should do the same.
I have had that happen, but not often enough for my preferences. That relies on the other deck being slow or having a bad day. Most times, I am losing, and drawing a Vial late game does not help me.
You should keep your playset of Aether Vial.
Who knows you may change your mind on them later on? You could swap them in and out of the deck for different knight variants.
I know how sucky it feels when you draw a Vial when you need threats. What to do. That's the drawback of Vial, but like Bewble mentioned below, there are situations where a mid-game Vial could still be useful.
Our mixture of lands are quite similar now. I think they are probably personal perferences. Just need to find the right mix you are comfortable with.
That's why we play Vial! I'm keeping my Vials for now.:)
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
You're right. If I give them up now, they are only going to be more expensive later to re-acquire.
If WotC creates a Knight with a better ETB ability, I would put back Vial. Right now, Knight of the White Orchid doesn't cut it for me.
Gosh, I wish Vial had cycling!
Aether Vial value seems to have dropped, so selling now and buying it again in future may result in a net loss.
I'm still waiting for M13 to spoil a knight with a better ETB ability. The 3 new knights in M13 has been quite vanilla so far.
Regarding Knight of the White Orchid, I feel he is not as effective in Modern as in Legacy.
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
They replaced White and Black Knight for some exalted Knights. :/
Yes, some vanilla exalted knights.
Are they playable? I was envisioning a build with exalted knights and pump spells like Honor of the Pure, Knight Exemplar and Adaptive Automation, but attacking with one exalted knight per turn doesn't seems like a good matchups against tokens(block all day) or flyers(too slow and late). I could imagine a big exalted Leonin Skyhunter swinging for FTW though ;).
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[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Knight exemplar is good enough for an ETB ability. When your opponent tries to remove another knight, you vial in a exemplar.
Of course, some more ETB effects would be cool to have though. Knight exemplar being about the only knight with this sort of utility outside KotR is the main reason this deck isn't quite tier 1.
And yes, exalted really doesn't benefit this deck too much with the lord effects we have.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Knight Exemplar ETB ability is certainty massive.
This trick with Aether Vial is one of the favorite and most commonly used in a Knight Tribal, and should I add - most famous trick?
Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head. Other than the likes of KotR and KotWO (which isn't exactly overwhelming), their is a lack of outstanding ETB effects or abilities which can bring Knights to another level. What Knights has though, is protection from colors and first strike, Lifelink (from KoM) etc, which is mostly combat tricks more than anything else.
There are a few Exalted knights though, and Sigiled Paladin and Ethercaste Knight comes to mind, but I'm skeptical since these creatures does not bring anything else to the table.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
There lies the decision-making tension of Aether Vial. 2 (for the 2 CMC knights) or wait to 3 charge counters on it (for Exemplar and KotR)?
And this trick won't help if they exile a Knight.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
With my Knights deck having only eight 3 CMC cards, letting Aether Vial go to 3 charge counters is probably not a good play for me. The lump in my mana curve of the deck is 2.
I know I had played around a bit with both of those Knights in various builds, but they were just underwhelming. I'm not excited about the new exalted Knights...wish they would have just reprinted Silver Knight or another decent 1-drop!
What are people using as their 2-drop Knights? Right now I am running a set of Puresteel Paladin and a set of Knight of the White Orchid, but I've been pretty disappointed in KotWO, even with running a set of Path to Exile and a few Ghost Quarters. I was looking at Knight of Meadowgrain, but found I usually am swinging with a Basilisk Collar in play anyway, so I was wondering what other people were having decent success with. I've been trying out Knight of the Holy Nimbus, White Knight, and White Shield Crusader (for the potential evasion), but wonder if there's a better option somewhere. I'd love to just play black and run something like Black Knight (much more relevant protection) and Dark Confidant (I firmly believe card advantage just wins in Modern/Legacy) with some more disruption/removal, but the mana is a bit rough. I guess the other option would be to just run more 3-drops.
Knight of Meadowgrain is my 2 CMC Knight. I don't care if its Lifelink is redundant with Basilisk Collar. I have a whole host of other creatures that do not have lifelink that would benefit. Lifegain is a real lifesaver in the games I have played.
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Just tried to play some games on Cockatrice tonight. It looked like everybody who wanted to play Modern wanted to play competitive decks.
Decks played against
Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Viscera Seer + Kitchen Finks = Unlimited life
Blood Artist + Lingering Souls + Ghoulcaller's Chant + Child of Night = Life loss/life gain combo
There was one game where I started first. I played a Cavern of Souls targeting Knight, and the opponent quit the game. I guess he decided it wasn't a competitive deck to play against me.
It's disheartening when the Knight deck totally folds to combo.
The problem is - odds of drawing a 2 CMC knight is higher than a 3 CMC Knight, therefore you will tend to draw into a 2 CMC knight and regret ever upping the vial counter to 3. But on the other hand, Vial counters at 3 is more devastating, since that is when a Knight Exemplar or a beefy KotR can come down.
I can understand where you are coming from, but doing that also means that is an over-reliance on Aether Vial. And not having Vial possibly mean you are dropping creatures of the same power level every turn, even with consistent land drop. I still prefer to run a smooth curve, to compensate for games that I don't draw Vial.
Precisely! Those exalted knights are simply not good enough. I'm a bit weary of these sub-standard knights which add nothing to Modern Knights. Even a reprint of Silver Knight could be useful, seeing there are so many burn removal spells and Terminate etc.
I concur with you on KotWO, i'm starting to find the ability less and less useful, and with you finding them disappointing even with Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter I guess the writing is on the wall for this Knight. Somehow he seems better in Legacy then Modern at the moment. I'm running Knight of Meadowgrain and Knight of the White Orchid as my 2cc knights at the moment, I might try out Knight of the Holy Nimbus, I can see why White Knight is not so important here, since against deck with black removal spells I'm usually able to play my indestructable in against them. Knights are more afraid of the exile spells especially rampant with white based decks.
I agree splashing B will be difficult, however if your Puresteel list runs Mox Opal, it should make the mana smoother. Therefore it is not that far-fetched to have Dark Confidant or even Black Knight.
That's the problem with online games against people you don't know, there will always be rage quit etc.
Well you can always setup your sideboard to have a chance against combo in the second game. I won against Sneak Attack and Show and Tell decks with my Legacy Knights in a local tournament last year, they didnt had the perfect hand to combo off though ;).
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Although I can't reconcile the art with it's power/toughness (they look much stronger than a vanilla 2/1 :rolleyes:). It's an amazing art nontheless. I can't wait to get foil playsets of both!
Idk, a exalted knights deck with Noble Hierarch and Qasali Pridemage and Cathedral of War might be feasible, who's to know? Anyway - enjoy the art!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Yeah, the M13 exalted knights are good to see, but too meek otherwise.
Rancor is a very interesting addition. +2 power & trample to a first strike knight can really rack up the damage very quickly. Playing Rancor might probably mean dropping an equipment or so?
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I'm considering dropping my Sword of Light and Shadow. In the games I have played where Knight of the Reliquary (KotR) gets really large (6/6 or higher -- greater if Knight Exemplar is present) and no enemy removal spell or ability is in sight, KotR can be chump blocked by a 1/1 token. Rancor would fix that quickly.
These are semi-casual games, not competitive games, so that does tend to happen for me. But the average for me is 4/4 or 5/5 (if I have dumped fetchlands and Horizon Canopy into the graveyard by then).
What usually happens in my games is that my opponent spends all their removal cards on my other Knights first. I usually cast or play KotR later or draw into it later.
If Noble Hierarch is reprinted in M13, I might find room for them in my Knights deck.
Rancor is not invulnerable. If an opponent responds to my casting of it by removing the targeted creature, Rancor stays in the graveyard.
Oh, I know...still more resiliant than equipment.
Looks like Exalted is going to be limited to White/Black in M13, though
There is one slot left in green for Noble Hierarch to fit. Otherwise, they could make a functional reprint with different colors.