I like your list very much, it looks really solid, I think it comes down to personal preferences for some of the card choices here. I can see the usability of Viridian Longbow but honestly I might just play Path to Exile in it's place, as without any airborne defenses we could just fold quickly to a Delver of Secrets or Vendilion Clique. Path to Exile can also break up those annoying combo strategies if timed correctly - I would probably drop 1x Silver-Inlaid Dagger, 1x Virdian Longbow, 1x Knight of the White Orchid and 1x Mirran Crusader for a set of PtE. I noticed the Dispatch in the sideboard though, so if you can consistency pull off metacraft early, Dispatch could be mainboard instead.
For the sideboard, I would most definitely play a full set of Leyline of Sacntity, this card is all about drawing it in your opening hand !
It's not like I can assemble Metalcraft on turn 3 every game, so by cutting 2 artifacts it would be even less reliable to run Dispatch over Path to Exile. I'd not have any problem in cutting some Equips for the sake of Path, specially things like Viridian Longbow which in most of the cases is simply worse than Path to Exile. My major problem is that for a tight list like this one which tries to abuse Puresteel Paladin's abilities we can't cut too many Equips.
Maybe I'm too focused in the supposed CA we can get from Paladin + cheap Equips, when the most relevant ability actually is to attach huge Equipments for free, most likely the Swords. Shall I try another approach then ?!
I like your list very much, it looks really solid, I think it comes down to personal preferences for some of the card choices here. I can see the usability of Viridian Longbow but honestly I might just play Path to Exile in it's place, as without any airborne defenses we could just fold quickly to a Delver of Secrets or Vendilion Clique. Path to Exile can also break up those annoying combo strategies if timed correctly - I would probably drop 1x Silver-Inlaid Dagger, 1x Virdian Longbow, 1x Knight of the White Orchid and 1x Mirran Crusader for a set of PtE. I noticed the Dispatch in the sideboard though, so if you can consistency pull off metacraft early, Dispatch could be mainboard instead.
For the sideboard, I would most definitely play a full set of Leyline of Sacntity, this card is all about drawing it in your opening hand !
It's not like I can assemble Metalcraft on turn 3 every game, so by cutting 2 artifacts it would be even less reliable to run Dispatch over Path to Exile. I'd not have any problem in cutting some Equips for the sake of Path, specially things like Viridian Longbow which in most of the cases is simply worse than Path to Exile. My major problem is that for a tight list like this one which tries to abuse Puresteel Paladin's abilities we can't cut too many Equips.
Maybe I'm too focused in the supposed CA we can get from Paladin + cheap Equips, when the most relevant ability actually is to attach huge Equipments for free, most likely the Swords. Shall I try another approach then ?!
That's what I felt too, if Dispatch is not reliable enough I'll run Path to Exile. There are certain threats which have to be answered immediately and PtE does a clean job dealing with them, thus I'll keep it even if the decklist is really very tight. Yup, I understand there's a need to run more equipments to make use of Puresteel's CA, so it's really difficult trying to find the right balance. That said, I'm more than happy to draw the occasional card with Puresteel rather than creating a massive CA engine, so I felt we should play the deck moderately. In a sense, play equipments as and when we need to, not hold onto the equipment just because we want to cast Puresteel before that - Aether Vial is very good in helping us play around it, we could EoT vial in Puresteel and equipment on our turn. And also, like you pointed out attaching equipments for free is also a very useful ability .
Maybe a bit off topic, but my knights deck that I have been running has made it to the semi-finals of a Modern tournament on TappedOut.net. A link to the bracket showing the tournament can be found here (same username as my MTG Salvation one):
This is the list (as well as the list I have been running to pretty solid success on MTGO). It has already won 2-0 vs weird BW Orzhov control, 2-1 vs BW tokens, and 2-0 vs elves.
I had changed out 3 Pithing Needle and one extra Relic-Warder for the Fields. And man, what an amazing discovery. Absolutely hoses control, combo, even some aggro decks - including pod and affinity. Ruins their fetchlands, manlands, planeswalkers, equipment, enchants, etc. Doesn't harm stuff like elves but the Needle didn't really either. Obviously this hurts Student and our own equipment, but that's an easy side out (as versus control you will likely bring in firewalker anyways).
Since there is just such an over-saturation of control decks on MTGO, I am thinking of running Vial in my list. Any suggestions for what to take out? Actually, if you guys are willing, these are some possible cards I would like some opinions on (other than what to sub for vial):
- Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers (2-4x)
- Reveillark (1-2x)
- Gods Willing (2-4x)(instead of Brave)
My next matchup in the TO tourney looks pretty tough, however. In my experience Gifts Control has been a bit of a tough bargain for knights. Here is a link to the deck i'll be facing:
In regards to running Meadowgrain, I acknowledge it is a very powerful card. However, for the build I am running, Skyhunters are the better card. I disagree with your assertion there is no comparison. Ability wise, yes, Meadowgrain is the better package. But if you take the spread of matches statistically, Skyhunter is more consistent. Life gain is powerful, but considering your opponent, removal can negate much of this gain, in the strictest sense of lack of board presence.
And if we are to touch on game theory and ordinal preferences, if your opponent is aiming to do that, then effectively Meadowgrain's purpose is waned. With that said, that is based off of only thirty matches. I would be willing to test Meadowgrain more, but at the time, I shall relent to what I have.
Not sure what you mean here, with skyhunter being more consistent over a spread of matches. Is this for ensuring damage gets through? Or soaking up fewer killspells? Do you mean by not having lifegain it seems like less of a threat and has a better chance of sticking to the board? I am not sure how removal can negate gain from lifelink abilities - as you say, in the lack of board presence. An early killspell will be directed towards whatever the biggest threat in the short term is - so how does Meagowgrain's purpose become waned when she can be bolted just the same as a T2 skyhunter? Wouldn't you rather gain life and damage the opponent, rather than just damage them? Modern is all about tempo and card value, i.e. a "2 for 1" card. Racking up life so as to prevent your opponent's strategy and calculations, especially if its bundled in with your creature aggro, seems like pretty good value to me.
Life points are fragile in modern, and increasing our quantity while decreasing theirs is a subtle mind game for an aggro deck. I can tell you I have seen paths, bolts, decays and the like target Meadowgrain before even an Exemplar. It's to the point where I am thinking of trying Fiendslayer Paladin, and/or upping my Basilisk Collar count to 2. Try using Meadowgrain!! I use both her and the skyhunter.
On running more Hero of Bladehold, it is not worth it.
I originally ran two of them. Don't get me wrong; she can clinch you games if pulled out properly. But even at a four cmc, it is still quite expensive, and they can clog the hand. Secondly, considering Aether Vial, generally, you will want it at two or three. Given most of the creature count lies within this range, and Aether Vial's effect happens during upkeep, would you really want to take that risk and bumping it to four? Most of this is judgement call, and depends on the matchup.
Usually, the risk adverse player(like me), won't want to partake within this risk. However, if you are a risk neutral player, then I can understand your view. The point is Hero is generally better run as two or or one of. I picked one, because it works.
Hmm, I like your thoughts on this. I don't run Hero, partially because I don't have any anthems for the tokens to benefit from, but she is a great siegebreaker and puts huge pressure on your opponents creature line (if there is one). I don't run vial (although, given that all I ever seem to encounter today is control, i'm looking into it) and I use circumstantial cards like Silverblade Paladin, so I am probably more of a risk-neutral player. There have been games in a UWR/UWx midrange or control matchup where they have one or more Tectonic Edge waiting, just waiting for you to go up to 4 lands so they can blast your quivering Cavern of Souls. Deploying your creatures via vial this way, you could potentially go up to 4 counters and warp in Liege. Although by this point they probably would have just used Repeal on your vial and will counter it if you try and play it again. On a separate note, I always thought that running a full set of Heros with Honor of the Pure and Brave the Elements seemed like a really strong build.
As for Wilt leaf liege, I admit it is unusual, but why not run him?
I will concede his four cmc, and usability with Vial diminishes(comparing him to mono blue merfolk), but he is a knight! He bumps up your white knights and has
four toughness, which means Decay and bolt are useless. Finally, its last ability is very potent. One time I was playing against pod, and someone tried to Raven Crime's me.
I plopped it down turn two. From there, I was able to assemble my forces and beat him. The point is that I took inspiration from merfolk to run more lords, and so far, it works. The card also combos with Kitchen Finks and everything else within my sideboard, creature wise.
I agree, Liege is powerful. She would be amazing against retrace-loam, and is perfect to combat Liliana and Raven's Crime. I would love to drop one on T1 or T2 like you did. Still, the stars have to align for her to be in your hand and your opponent to prompt the discard. Further, I see Thoughtseize and Inquisition used way more than anything else, and not only will your opponent ignore the Liege but they will prepare as best they can for a 4-drop with an anthem. I.e., they will rush to use Electrolyze, Drown in Sorrow, Pyroclasm, etc. So, the second ability is gravy that may happen once in a while. Regardless of the cons, however, she is still a lord and a solid card. The question is this: in a mono-white knights deck, she is a 4/4 at 4cmc, and gives your creatures +1/+1. Is that a worthwhile competitor for the limited number of 4 drop slots available? She is a great T4 play, but is she the best T4 play available to us? I have always kind of felt it is hard to justify her in a mono-white deck, but GW hybrid creatures do synergize nicely. I really like your inclusion of Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers - its stats just seem absolutely perfect for the modern meta, even though its outclassed by Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Loxodon Smiter.
Finally, to touch on the sideboard, I understand your argument for Leyline, but I ran two due to space. It is consistent, in that when I get it, it works. But remember, generally, assuming we're playing second round, we can better execute the strategy of beating face more effectively. So the promise of Leyline weighs less on us,generally in the early game.
As for Kitchen Finks, this card is very good. It gums up the board, making it difficult for your opponent to deal with. This is useful against burn, and small pox, considering even if it is sacrificed, it comes back. That said, it combos well with Liege in buffing it. Finally, in terms of Ajani, I see your point. I am currently experimenting with teching in Heliod, Sun god, given the constant viglance and token creation. All in all, I look forward to your response.
I know you only are running two leylines due to space, but as already has been advocated, you should really push to run 4. I mean, you want this card in your opening hand, not only because its convenient but because you HAVE to. You likely won't get 4 turns against a storm deck, and even then you would have to have 4 mana to cast it if you draw into it. Same deal against mono-black control, mill, RDW, or anything else that targets you as a player. If it's a longer game, sure only 2 would work to make things occasionally convenient. But this card hoses specific decks all on its own.
I have actually been running a set of 4 Kor Firewalker in the leyline's place on MTGO, since they are so expensive now (glad I got my paper set when M11 released), and he has worked great vs. storm and (most especially) RDW. He also has some applications against UWR control. He obviously doesn't save from discard, sacrifice or mill, but he does have his uses. As for Finks, good argument, I yield. Knights don't really have something versatile and annoying to deal with, other than maybe Knight of the Holy Nimbus, so your choice of finks for lifegain, liege compatibility and burn works for your strategy.
I hope you find these comments constructive!
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Standard WRG Naya Blitz WR Boros Aggro W White Lightning
Modern W Death and Taxes WKnights R Red Deck Wins RG Zoo WG Hatebears WG Aura Hexproof WU Luminarch Ascension WB Tokens WUB Esper Control
'Tact' is the art of making a point without making an enemy. - Sir Isaac Newton
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
I run this midrange variation (Exalted Knights) where if I can get a Knight Exemplar x2 by turn 4 with Phyrexian Metamorph to help that Im locked down solid. Then drop a sweeper. Cavern of Souls has been so invaluable. The Gold Myr helps accelerate the deck a bit so its more consistent putting a 3 drop on turn 3. If I need to go faster I can attack with the flyers being Exalted. I may add Sigiled Paladin because of the First Strike but the Knight of Glory and Protection from Black comes in handy. 50/50 on that one. Any suggestions.
Student of Warfare always seemed to never net me much as he gets killed/bounced every time I pump him so Im behind the first few turns do that. I know this isnt a full Knight deck per say. I could drop a few spells and add a few more Knights like another Hero of Bladehold or maybe a Wall of Omens or Perimeter Captain to help by some time before my decks really get going. My biggest issue with this deck has been dealing with Affinity. Sunscour has helped against many Zoo decks. This deck has been lots of fun to pilot. The Revised White Knight brings back lots of good memories.
I run this midrange variation (Exalted Knights) where if I can get a Knight Exemplar x2 by turn 4 with Phyrexian Metamorph to help that Im locked down solid. Then drop a sweeper. Cavern of Souls has been so invaluable. The Gold Myr helps accelerate the deck a bit so its more consistent putting a 3 drop on turn 3. If I need to go faster I can attack with the flyers being Exalted. I may add Sigiled Paladin because of the First Strike but the Knight of Glory and Protection from Black comes in handy. 50/50 on that one. Any suggestions.
Student of Warfare always seemed to never net me much as he gets killed/bounced every time I pump him so Im behind the first few turns do that. I know this isnt a full Knight deck per say. I could drop a few spells and add a few more Knights like another Hero of Bladehold or maybe a Wall of Omens or Perimeter Captain to help by some time before my decks really get going. My biggest issue with this deck has been dealing with Affinity. Sunscour has helped against many Zoo decks. This deck has been lots of fun to pilot. The Revised White Knight brings back lots of good memories.
Knight Exemplar's effectiveness is reduced with so many non-knight creatures. Drop Squire for Sigiled Paladin. An exalted deck could really benefit from a green splash: you can cut Gold Myr and add 4 Noble Hierarch. Green gives you access to Rancor, which you could run a set of. Since you are pushing for a fast game with such a low curve, rancor would be help finish the job better than most other options. Honor of the Pure and Aether Vial may be worthwhile here. You probably don't need 4 Journey to Nowhere in your main. You are going to end the game quickly, and knights have combat effectiveness, which allows them to 1-0 most other creatures in modern via first strike. And your exalted beast will be so huge, nothing can stop it anyways (other than chump it and slow you down). Those 4 slots for Journey would be better spent on prot spells (see next paragraph).
Very important note about an exalted theme:colour protection is a must.Mirran Crusader would be nuts here, you should be finding room for him. You also will probably want 6-8 protection spells: I would recommend upping your Brave count to 4, and adding 2 of either Gods Willing (preferred) or Emerge Unscathed. Between Rancor and your prot spells, you will ensure your damage is getting through (and your exalted creature isn't getting bolted before he can power up).
Day doesn't belong in your main, not for this kind of deck. Put it in your side and cut Sunscour. Mindbreak Trap is too particular for just storm. Cut it and add 2-3 Rest in Peace - I advocate RIP because you have 0 graveyard interaction, it can be used for countless matchups, and it is the best gravehate available because it counters any triggers before they occur (essentially removes the concept of a graveyard from the game - spent spells are gone forever).
Splashing green may open up further options, like Qasali Pridemage in your SB instead of Disenchant - which also keeps with the exalt strategy.
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Standard WRG Naya Blitz WR Boros Aggro W White Lightning
Modern W Death and Taxes WKnights R Red Deck Wins RG Zoo WG Hatebears WG Aura Hexproof WU Luminarch Ascension WB Tokens WUB Esper Control
'Tact' is the art of making a point without making an enemy. - Sir Isaac Newton
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
That's what I felt too, if Dispatch is not reliable enough I'll run Path to Exile. There are certain threats which have to be answered immediately and PtE does a clean job dealing with them, thus I'll keep it even if the decklist is really very tight. Yup, I understand there's a need to run more equipments to make use of Puresteel's CA, so it's really difficult trying to find the right balance. That said, I'm more than happy to draw the occasional card with Puresteel rather than creating a massive CA engine, so I felt we should play the deck moderately. In a sense, play equipments as and when we need to, not hold onto the equipment just because we want to cast Puresteel before that - Aether Vial is very good in helping us play around it, we could EoT vial in Puresteel and equipment on our turn. And also, like you pointed out attaching equipments for free is also a very useful ability .
Yep, I'll do some adjustments in my list then I post it here.
That's what I felt too, if Dispatch is not reliable enough I'll run Path to Exile. There are certain threats which have to be answered immediately and PtE does a clean job dealing with them, thus I'll keep it even if the decklist is really very tight. Yup, I understand there's a need to run more equipments to make use of Puresteel's CA, so it's really difficult trying to find the right balance. That said, I'm more than happy to draw the occasional card with Puresteel rather than creating a massive CA engine, so I felt we should play the deck moderately. In a sense, play equipments as and when we need to, not hold onto the equipment just because we want to cast Puresteel before that - Aether Vial is very good in helping us play around it, we could EoT vial in Puresteel and equipment on our turn. And also, like you pointed out attaching equipments for free is also a very useful ability .
Yep, I'll do some adjustments in my list then I post it here.
I would have love to play Puresteel Knights again if not for my lack of Spellskites (sold it during the Modern price spikes ). I felt it is really important in protecting our Knights (especially via Vial tricks) and also in enabling metacraft for Puresteel Paladin and Dispatch. Anyway do let us know how the new decklist works out for you !
I saw a post a few pages back about someone talking about a Knight list that ran Steward of Valeron, so I thought I'd make a GW Vial knight deck that has him and try it at the bi-weekly local Modern tournament. It was only 3 rounds, but it gave me some important feedback on mistakes I'd made in making the deck like too many 3 cost cards. The decks I played against were a GB Dredge deck and two Affinity decks. The GB deck I beat 2-0 because of fast Mirran Crusaders, Rest in Peace, and no Liliana's showed up. Both Affinity decks opened crazy and beat me in 6 turns.
I saw a post a few pages back about someone talking about a Knight list that ran Steward of Valeron, so I thought I'd make a GW Vial knight deck that has him and try it at the bi-weekly local Modern tournament. It was only 3 rounds, but it gave me some important feedback on mistakes I'd made in making the deck like too many 3 cost cards. The decks I played against were a GB Dredge deck and two Affinity decks. The GB deck I beat 2-0 because of fast Mirran Crusaders, Rest in Peace, and no Liliana's showed up. Both Affinity decks opened crazy and beat me in 6 turns.
I put it into deck tags for you . Yup 12x 3cc knights is too many, it's a good idea to drop some Cavaliers and Mirran Crusader for those knights (Crusader cannot be enchanted by Rancor as well). If possible I would try to slot in a couple of Knight of the Reliquary - you have a number of utility lands which makes KotR more powerful, and even though it's another 3cc knight, I felt she's worth her place .
I can try dropping 1 Mirran Crusader, 2 Wilt-Leat Cavaliers for a 2 drop creature and 2 Knight of the Reliquary. I want to try more games with Cavalers before I decide if they make the cut or get replaced with Reliquary. If budget wasn't an issue I'd run 4 fetchlands and 3 or 4 Horizon Canopy.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
I can try dropping 1 Mirran Crusader, 2 Wilt-Leat Cavaliers for a 2 drop creature and 2 Knight of the Reliquary. I want to try more games with Cavalers before I decide if they make the cut or get replaced with Reliquary. If budget wasn't an issue I'd run 4 fetchlands and 3 or 4 Horizon Canopy.
Knight of Reliquary have become better again with the banning of Deathrite Shaman, so even if we don't run fetches he can get big quickly especially in those games that drag on - and with Rancor on him we could use her to trampled over opponents. Yup, playing fetches and Horizon Canopy would be a good addition if your budget permits.
Yup like JPoJohnson pointed out, Knights creatures that can interact better with opponent's play, influence the board, or when W (knights dominant color) gets better card draws etc.
Yup like JPoJohnson pointed out, Knights creatures that can interact better with opponent's play, influence the board, or when W (knights dominant color) gets better card draws etc.
Knights as a "tribal" job class is focused on combat abilities (protection and first strike), so this deck doesn't have a strategy against control and combo deck archetypes. We only have a handful of Knights that have abilities that are not combat related.
Yup like JPoJohnson pointed out, Knights creatures that can interact better with opponent's play, influence the board, or when W (knights dominant color) gets better card draws etc.
Knights as a "tribal" job class is focused on combat abilities (protection and first strike), so this deck doesn't have a strategy against control and combo deck archetypes. We only have a handful of Knights that have abilities that are not combat related.
If you want a job class deck that has slightly better interactions, try soldiers. Nabbydian has a forum thread for that.
Yup, pretty much listed out by you, but you missed out on the awesome art of a knight - Knight of the Reliquary (check out part of my signature banner ) - she's awesome and is now a factor again with DRS banning .
Yup, pretty much listed out by you, but you missed out on the awesome art of a knight - Knight of the Reliquary (check out part of my signature banner ) - she's awesome and is now a factor again with DRS banning .
Oops, I forgot Knight of the Reliquary. It definitely has a non-combat ability that is useful with the proper land configuration. Unfortunately, as you've noted as well, Modern doesn't have a good variety of utility lands. Most of the time, it's only getting buffed by used fetchlands.
Sejiri Steppe (I hate that this is ETB tapped though.)
Tectonic Edge
Bojuka Bog (I don't play black, so adding this to my GW deck hurts my mana curve.)
How many lands do you run in your maindeck to get to 4 lands in play regularly and early enough to make Township useful? I feel like by the time you are about to sink mana into it, the game better be almost over already anyways. I'm not sure the colorless source is worth it.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Yup, pretty much listed out by you, but you missed out on the awesome art of a knight - Knight of the Reliquary (check out part of my signature banner ) - she's awesome and is now a factor again with DRS banning .
Oops, I forgot Knight of the Reliquary. It definitely has a non-combat ability that is useful with the proper land configuration. Unfortunately, as you've noted as well, Modern doesn't have a good variety of utility lands. Most of the time, it's only getting buffed by used fetchlands.
Sejiri Steppe (I hate that this is ETB tapped though.)
Tectonic Edge
Bojuka Bog (I don't play black, so adding this to my GW deck hurts my mana curve.)
Because of this, I've temporarily reduced my KotR count to 3 because of this.
I usually play 2-3 Knight of the Reliquary too, our 3cc spells are so congested I can't squeeze more KotR in. Also, she needs time to really get into grove, and time is usually not on our side . I like having a single Bojuka Bog in the sideboard as a tutorable target for KotR though.
Green means Fauna Shaman is accessible(even though it's not a knight, it's still a great creature). Which also means you could do something cool with her and Puresteel Paladin, along with Mox Opals and different swords to give protection.
Could be fun, and add some mean creature search as well.
It's not like I can assemble Metalcraft on turn 3 every game, so by cutting 2 artifacts it would be even less reliable to run Dispatch over Path to Exile. I'd not have any problem in cutting some Equips for the sake of Path, specially things like Viridian Longbow which in most of the cases is simply worse than Path to Exile. My major problem is that for a tight list like this one which tries to abuse Puresteel Paladin's abilities we can't cut too many Equips.
Maybe I'm too focused in the supposed CA we can get from Paladin + cheap Equips, when the most relevant ability actually is to attach huge Equipments for free, most likely the Swords. Shall I try another approach then ?!
That's what I felt too, if Dispatch is not reliable enough I'll run Path to Exile. There are certain threats which have to be answered immediately and PtE does a clean job dealing with them, thus I'll keep it even if the decklist is really very tight. Yup, I understand there's a need to run more equipments to make use of Puresteel's CA, so it's really difficult trying to find the right balance. That said, I'm more than happy to draw the occasional card with Puresteel rather than creating a massive CA engine, so I felt we should play the deck moderately. In a sense, play equipments as and when we need to, not hold onto the equipment just because we want to cast Puresteel before that - Aether Vial is very good in helping us play around it, we could EoT vial in Puresteel and equipment on our turn. And also, like you pointed out attaching equipments for free is also a very useful ability .
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
3 Student of Warfare
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight Exemplar
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Silverblade Paladin
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Lightning Greaves
Enchantments [4]
4 Light from Within
Instants [7]
3 Brave the Elements
4 Path to Exile
Lands [20]
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Flagstones of Trokair
12 Plains
2 Celestial Purge
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Rest in Peace
4 Suppression Field
2 Wrath of God
I had changed out 3 Pithing Needle and one extra Relic-Warder for the Fields. And man, what an amazing discovery. Absolutely hoses control, combo, even some aggro decks - including pod and affinity. Ruins their fetchlands, manlands, planeswalkers, equipment, enchants, etc. Doesn't harm stuff like elves but the Needle didn't really either. Obviously this hurts Student and our own equipment, but that's an easy side out (as versus control you will likely bring in firewalker anyways).
Since there is just such an over-saturation of control decks on MTGO, I am thinking of running Vial in my list. Any suggestions for what to take out? Actually, if you guys are willing, these are some possible cards I would like some opinions on (other than what to sub for vial):
- Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers (2-4x)
- Reveillark (1-2x)
- Gods Willing (2-4x)(instead of Brave)
My next matchup in the TO tourney looks pretty tough, however. In my experience Gifts Control has been a bit of a tough bargain for knights. Here is a link to the deck i'll be facing:
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Life points are fragile in modern, and increasing our quantity while decreasing theirs is a subtle mind game for an aggro deck. I can tell you I have seen paths, bolts, decays and the like target Meadowgrain before even an Exemplar. It's to the point where I am thinking of trying Fiendslayer Paladin, and/or upping my Basilisk Collar count to 2. Try using Meadowgrain!! I use both her and the skyhunter.
Hmm, I like your thoughts on this. I don't run Hero, partially because I don't have any anthems for the tokens to benefit from, but she is a great siegebreaker and puts huge pressure on your opponents creature line (if there is one). I don't run vial (although, given that all I ever seem to encounter today is control, i'm looking into it) and I use circumstantial cards like Silverblade Paladin, so I am probably more of a risk-neutral player. There have been games in a UWR/UWx midrange or control matchup where they have one or more Tectonic Edge waiting, just waiting for you to go up to 4 lands so they can blast your quivering Cavern of Souls. Deploying your creatures via vial this way, you could potentially go up to 4 counters and warp in Liege. Although by this point they probably would have just used Repeal on your vial and will counter it if you try and play it again. On a separate note, I always thought that running a full set of Heros with Honor of the Pure and Brave the Elements seemed like a really strong build.
I agree, Liege is powerful. She would be amazing against retrace-loam, and is perfect to combat Liliana and Raven's Crime. I would love to drop one on T1 or T2 like you did. Still, the stars have to align for her to be in your hand and your opponent to prompt the discard. Further, I see Thoughtseize and Inquisition used way more than anything else, and not only will your opponent ignore the Liege but they will prepare as best they can for a 4-drop with an anthem. I.e., they will rush to use Electrolyze, Drown in Sorrow, Pyroclasm, etc. So, the second ability is gravy that may happen once in a while. Regardless of the cons, however, she is still a lord and a solid card. The question is this: in a mono-white knights deck, she is a 4/4 at 4cmc, and gives your creatures +1/+1. Is that a worthwhile competitor for the limited number of 4 drop slots available? She is a great T4 play, but is she the best T4 play available to us? I have always kind of felt it is hard to justify her in a mono-white deck, but GW hybrid creatures do synergize nicely. I really like your inclusion of Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers - its stats just seem absolutely perfect for the modern meta, even though its outclassed by Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Loxodon Smiter.
I know you only are running two leylines due to space, but as already has been advocated, you should really push to run 4. I mean, you want this card in your opening hand, not only because its convenient but because you HAVE to. You likely won't get 4 turns against a storm deck, and even then you would have to have 4 mana to cast it if you draw into it. Same deal against mono-black control, mill, RDW, or anything else that targets you as a player. If it's a longer game, sure only 2 would work to make things occasionally convenient. But this card hoses specific decks all on its own.
I have actually been running a set of 4 Kor Firewalker in the leyline's place on MTGO, since they are so expensive now (glad I got my paper set when M11 released), and he has worked great vs. storm and (most especially) RDW. He also has some applications against UWR control. He obviously doesn't save from discard, sacrifice or mill, but he does have his uses. As for Finks, good argument, I yield. Knights don't really have something versatile and annoying to deal with, other than maybe Knight of the Holy Nimbus, so your choice of finks for lifegain, liege compatibility and burn works for your strategy.
I hope you find these comments constructive!
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Student of Warfare always seemed to never net me much as he gets killed/bounced every time I pump him so Im behind the first few turns do that. I know this isnt a full Knight deck per say. I could drop a few spells and add a few more Knights like another Hero of Bladehold or maybe a Wall of Omens or Perimeter Captain to help by some time before my decks really get going. My biggest issue with this deck has been dealing with Affinity. Sunscour has helped against many Zoo decks. This deck has been lots of fun to pilot. The Revised White Knight brings back lots of good memories.
Its hard to exclude Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Paladin.
4 Akrasan Squire
3 Gold Myr
1 Hero of Bladehold
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of Glory
4 Leonin Skyhunter
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 War Falcon
2 Brave the Elements
3 Day of Judgment
4 Journey to Nowhere
4 Path to Exile
Lands
17 Plains
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Disenchant
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Revoke Existence
2 Sunscour
4 Torpor Orb
Very important note about an exalted theme: colour protection is a must. Mirran Crusader would be nuts here, you should be finding room for him. You also will probably want 6-8 protection spells: I would recommend upping your Brave count to 4, and adding 2 of either Gods Willing (preferred) or Emerge Unscathed. Between Rancor and your prot spells, you will ensure your damage is getting through (and your exalted creature isn't getting bolted before he can power up).
Day doesn't belong in your main, not for this kind of deck. Put it in your side and cut Sunscour. Mindbreak Trap is too particular for just storm. Cut it and add 2-3 Rest in Peace - I advocate RIP because you have 0 graveyard interaction, it can be used for countless matchups, and it is the best gravehate available because it counters any triggers before they occur (essentially removes the concept of a graveyard from the game - spent spells are gone forever).
Splashing green may open up further options, like Qasali Pridemage in your SB instead of Disenchant - which also keeps with the exalt strategy.
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Yep, I'll do some adjustments in my list then I post it here.
I would have love to play Puresteel Knights again if not for my lack of Spellskites (sold it during the Modern price spikes ). I felt it is really important in protecting our Knights (especially via Vial tricks) and also in enabling metacraft for Puresteel Paladin and Dispatch. Anyway do let us know how the new decklist works out for you !
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
This is the list I was running
I'm thinking of cutting the Cavaliers and Crusaders to 3 and adding 2 Knight of Meadowgrain or Qasali Pridemage to deal with all the artifacts.
edit: I can't get the deck tag to work
4 Temple Garden
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Ghost Quarters
1 Tectonic Edge
6 Plains
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Student of Warfare
4 Steward of Valeron
3 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Wild-Leaf Cavaliers
4 Knight Exemplar
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 AEther Vial
4 Path of Exile
4 Rancor
2 Beast Within
I put it into deck tags for you . Yup 12x 3cc knights is too many, it's a good idea to drop some Cavaliers and Mirran Crusader for those knights (Crusader cannot be enchanted by Rancor as well). If possible I would try to slot in a couple of Knight of the Reliquary - you have a number of utility lands which makes KotR more powerful, and even though it's another 3cc knight, I felt she's worth her place .
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Knight of Reliquary have become better again with the banning of Deathrite Shaman, so even if we don't run fetches he can get big quickly especially in those games that drag on - and with Rancor on him we could use her to trampled over opponents. Yup, playing fetches and Horizon Canopy would be a good addition if your budget permits.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Knights as a "tribal" job class is focused on combat abilities (protection and first strike), so this deck doesn't have a strategy against control and combo deck archetypes. We only have a handful of Knights that have abilities that are not combat related.
The four I can think of are as follows:
If you want a job class deck that has slightly better interactions, try soldiers. Nabbydian has a forum thread for that.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Oops, I forgot Knight of the Reliquary. It definitely has a non-combat ability that is useful with the proper land configuration. Unfortunately, as you've noted as well, Modern doesn't have a good variety of utility lands. Most of the time, it's only getting buffed by used fetchlands.
I don't think Mutavault and Horizon Canopy are useful targets.
Because of this, I've temporarily reduced my KotR count to 3 because of this.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1005-wtb-and-maybe-trade-for-my-wants-i-need-dredgevine
How many lands do you run in your maindeck to get to 4 lands in play regularly and early enough to make Township useful? I feel like by the time you are about to sink mana into it, the game better be almost over already anyways. I'm not sure the colorless source is worth it.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
By the time you have enough devotion for it to generate any mana your hand is already essentially empty. Not sure it has much benefit.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Could be fun, and add some mean creature search as well.