Notes:
1. I know that my sideboard is weak, it hasn't been necessary since all my games with this deck have thus far been casual
2. I know that Elspeth is expensive, but she's a fantastic board wipe that they can't counter and something they have to answer within a turn... so it's also treated me almost like a timewalk as well once I get it down on the board.
3. Depending on what I'm playing against, I have included 2 Cavern of Souls for 2 Plains. I think that if the meta required it, I would for sure make room for Tectonic Edge and go for a Legacy Merfolk-esque build of running 13 Plains, 4 Mutavault and 3 Tect. I'll have to wait for when I test this at the LGS (recently moved) to see if it is a change I need to make.
Anyone have thoughts? I'd love constructive criticism in order to make this deck either more competitive in a multiplayer sense or to make it something a little bit stronger that wouldn't do half bad at FNM for a modern tourney.
So I posted this a few pages back, but didn't really get any feedback. I'm looking to make it more competitive (taking it to a Modern FNM for the first time this upcoming Friday) in a 1v1 matchup. Anyone have any pointers for me? Thanks in advance (:
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
So I posted this a few pages back, but didn't really get any feedback. I'm looking to make it more competitive (taking it to a Modern FNM for the first time this upcoming Friday) in a 1v1 matchup. Anyone have any pointers for me? Thanks in advance (:
Neither Tirel nor *** works well in the MB imo. Knight-Errant is much better than Tirel, in costing less and helping us more in actually winning the game. And unless your meta is heavily creature-based, *** is probably a bad idea since Knights is a creature-based deck itself.
You could also run one or two swords MB. You'll most likely also have problems casting the expensive cards (Elspeth and Kinsbaile), so I'd add 2 or 3 more lands.
See if you can make space for the last leyline in the SB too.
They left out the part where Yawgmoth is resurrected,but has been cleansed as Yawgmoth the Redeemed,and now must awaken Chromium so that Karn can fuse with him and create what can only be known as : the ultimate taco.
Ok, so my deck is doing decently so in 1v1 as well as thumping in the multiplayer, I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Let me know if there are any changes that could work out well. I've looked into Death Knights and there's no way I would want to run that, I can see the pro of playing G/W and may drift in that direction if I feel I need something a little different, but I'm liking what I have so far:
Notes:
1. I know that my sideboard is weak, it hasn't been necessary since all my games with this deck have thus far been casual
2. I know that Elspeth is expensive, but she's a fantastic board wipe that they can't counter and something they have to answer within a turn... so it's also treated me almost like a timewalk as well once I get it down on the board.
3. Depending on what I'm playing against, I have included 2 Cavern of Souls for 2 Plains. I think that if the meta required it, I would for sure make room for Tectonic Edge and go for a Legacy Merfolk-esque build of running 13 Plains, 4 Mutavault and 3 Tect. I'll have to wait for when I test this at the LGS (recently moved) to see if it is a change I need to make.
Anyone have thoughts? I'd love constructive criticism in order to make this deck either more competitive in a multiplayer sense or to make it something a little bit stronger that wouldn't do half bad at FNM for a modern tourney.
Sorry for the late reply, my computer is down for this few days :(....
I hope this reply is helpful for you and comes in time for your preparations for the Modern FNM
Firstly, I agree with Nikeyeia that Elspeth Tirel and Wrath of God is not really suitable in the main decklist.
Wrath of God is good in matchups when you expect hexproof creatures, plenty of flyers, mass tokens or aggressive creature decks like Zoo etc. Wrath is also not easy to cast at 4cc, and can effectively cost us 3 turns before we can attack again (1st turn - Wrath, 2nd turn - cast creature, 3rd turn - finallly can attack). Although, Aether Vial, Wrath of God and Knight Exemplar is a very good trick to pull off, a spot removal on Exemplar in response would just meant a complete wipeout. To conclude, 1 or 2 Wrath mainboard might be possible, but playing 4 is definitely out of the question. Playing 4 Wrath effects and 4 Path to Exile is overkill when Knights are also a creature deck. That said, I can see 2 mainboard and 2 sideboard if you feel your meta calls for creature board wipe spells.
Honestly I don't like Elspeth Tirel at all in the decklist, although at least you have Leonin Skyhunter to protect her from fliers so you could still use her wipe effect next turn :thumbsup:. Overall I think the deck also lacks a good way to protect Elspeth Tirel sufficiently to ensure you can use her -5 ability. Moreover at 5cc, I think she's way too slow to begin with.
Regarding the use of 4x Aether Vial and 4x Honor of the Pure in the same decklist - I'm never an advocate of playing all 8 of this non-creature spells. If you are going to play Vial for the combat/flash tricks, you should always play 4, in order to increase your chances of casting them as early as possible. However first and foremost you need to consistently cast creatures in order to maximise the usefulness of either Vial or Honor, and playing 4 of both cards reduces this very consistency. Since Vial cannot be reduced, I'll try to increase the creature count, perhaps by dropping 2 Honor and add in a few 2 drops Knights. There might also be more slots for creatures by removing some wraths.
The sideboard definitely needs some kind of overhaul :rolleyes:. Like Nikeyeia pointed out, you should just play a full set of Leyline of Sanctity. This Leyline is a card when you sideboard in you absolutely want to have it in the opening hand or to draw it eventually. Regarding the swords, I feel you don't need to play them in your sideboard at all. They used to do that when there is a mainboard Stoneforge Mystic or Steelshaper's Gift so they could maximise the chances of drawing the correct single sword. However without the tutors this randomness will work against you, it still comes down to consistently problems in the end. There is little point of sideboarding a card when chances of drawing it is extremely low.
3. Depending on what I'm playing against, I have included 2 Cavern of Souls for 2 Plains. I think that if the meta required it, I would for sure make room for Tectonic Edge and go for a Legacy Merfolk-esque build of running 13 Plains, 4 Mutavault and 3 Tect. I'll have to wait for when I test this at the LGS (recently moved) to see if it is a change I need to make.
Unfortunately we can't port Merfolk land base over to Knights. Merfolks casting casts are less demanding than Knights, who requires a heavy W base. In fact I actually felt you need to cut down to 3 Mutavault and run more Plains instead. At least 21 lands :thumbsup:.
Though Wrath of God may become more relevant if Thrun becomes popular courtesy of that new legend rule coming up.
Divine Reckoning doesn't kill off Knight of the Holy Nimbus like *** does. And has a Flashback for reuse later on (great if you've got an Exemplar online, and want to keep their creatures down).
But is the 'drawback' of allowing one of their creatures to live worth it? You might be staring down a GosT with a Batterskull on.
Sorry for the late reply, my computer is down for this few days :(....
I hope this reply is helpful for you and comes in time for your preparations for the Modern FNM
Firstly, I agree with Nikeyeia that Elspeth Tirel and Wrath of God is not really suitable in the main decklist.
Wrath of God is good in matchups when you expect hexproof creatures, plenty of flyers, mass tokens or aggressive creature decks like Zoo etc. Wrath is also not easy to cast at 4cc, and can effectively cost us 3 turns before we can attack again (1st turn - Wrath, 2nd turn - cast creature, 3rd turn - finallly can attack). Although, Aether Vial, Wrath of God and Knight Exemplar is a very good trick to pull off, a spot removal on Exemplar in response would just meant a complete wipeout. To conclude, 1 or 2 Wrath mainboard might be possible, but playing 4 is definitely out of the question. Playing 4 Wrath effects and 4 Path to Exile is overkill when Knights are also a creature deck. That said, I can see 2 mainboard and 2 sideboard if you feel your meta calls for creature board wipe spells.
Honestly I don't like Elspeth Tirel at all in the decklist, although at least you have Leonin Skyhunter to protect her from fliers so you could still use her wipe effect next turn :thumbsup:. Overall I think the deck also lacks a good way to protect Elspeth Tirel sufficiently to ensure you can use her -5 ability. Moreover at 5cc, I think she's way too slow to begin with.
Regarding the use of 4x Aether Vial and 4x Honor of the Pure in the same decklist - I'm never an advocate of playing all 8 of this non-creature spells. If you are going to play Vial for the combat/flash tricks, you should always play 4, in order to increase your chances of casting them as early as possible. However first and foremost you need to consistently cast creatures in order to maximise the usefulness of either Vial or Honor, and playing 4 of both cards reduces this very consistency. Since Vial cannot be reduced, I'll try to increase the creature count, perhaps by dropping 2 Honor and add in a few 2 drops Knights. There might also be more slots for creatures by removing some wraths.
The sideboard definitely needs some kind of overhaul :rolleyes:. Like Nikeyeia pointed out, you should just play a full set of Leyline of Sanctity. This Leyline is a card when you sideboard in you absolutely want to have it in the opening hand or to draw it eventually. Regarding the swords, I feel you don't need to play them in your sideboard at all. They used to do that when there is a mainboard Stoneforge Mystic or Steelshaper's Gift so they could maximise the chances of drawing the correct single sword. However without the tutors this randomness will work against you, it still comes down to consistently problems in the end. There is little point of sideboarding a card when chances of drawing it is extremely low.
Unfortunately we can't port Merfolk land base over to Knights. Merfolks casting casts are less demanding than Knights, who requires a heavy W base. In fact I actually felt you need to cut down to 3 Mutavault and run more Plains instead. At least 21 lands :thumbsup:.
Some valid points, thanks! I'll have to tweak it a bit. I do believe there will be a creature heavy meta, but I think that running as many as I am is definitely overkill. I'll be moving the Wraths to SB. Tirel was really just for some fun testing and I think that although good in Multiplayer that she is lacking in the 1v1 scene.
So what are some good alternatives to swap into a mono white knight deck?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Some valid points, thanks! I'll have to tweak it a bit. I do believe there will be a creature heavy meta, but I think that running as many as I am is definitely overkill. I'll be moving the Wraths to SB. Tirel was really just for some fun testing and I think that although good in Multiplayer that she is lacking in the 1v1 scene.
So what are some good alternatives to swap into a mono white knight deck?
I would say to add a bit of Brave the Elements to your deck. Not only does it help protect from burn spells, but if you fight a deck that has a large selection of colored creatures, you can play this, call protection from the more troublesome creatures Mana color, and then swing. against decks who share a color, like guilds, and mono color decks, this typically lets you go with a free full on swing for game. That being said, the one thing to worry about in that is fog. This is why I run Grand Abolisher in my knights at 2, simply because I can make sure my opponent cannot respond to anything I do during my turn besides blocking...unless I use Brave the Elements, which seals the game.
Elspeth Knight-Errant is also a good card to run in place of your current Elspeth. She has only one minus ability, and she also becomes a target for your opponent.
Cavern of Souls works wonders in this deck, especially at 2. Calling Knight basically makes your knights hit the field no matter what, and if you splash in the Abolisher, you can call Human and do the same thing.
Though Wrath of God may become more relevant if Thrun becomes popular courtesy of that new legend rule coming up.
Divine Reckoning doesn't kill off Knight of the Holy Nimbus like *** does. And has a Flashback for reuse later on (great if you've got an Exemplar online, and want to keep their creatures down).
But is the 'drawback' of allowing one of their creatures to live worth it? You might be staring down a GosT with a Batterskull on.
Unfortunately I'm not into Divine Reckoning, because in most situations/scenarios when we cast a board wipe, we really want to clear the board of creatures, and we don't want them to be able to keep their best creature on the board. Basically the reason for board wipe is either 1) clear the opponent's board of creatures when their board is overwhelming. 2) finish off their hexproof creatures. Divine Reckoning does not do the second portion well - like you pointed out about GosT. For this reason, Wrath of God is always better here since it is more relevant across different situations.
Some valid points, thanks! I'll have to tweak it a bit. I do believe there will be a creature heavy meta, but I think that running as many as I am is definitely overkill. I'll be moving the Wraths to SB. Tirel was really just for some fun testing and I think that although good in Multiplayer that she is lacking in the 1v1 scene.
So what are some good alternatives to swap into a mono white knight deck?
At this point of time I'm not too keen on a mono-white build, but since this is the direction you are going with I'll make a list as well, as usual I'll try to stick as close as possible to your original list so your playstyle and original decklist is not massively effected.
I kept some Honor of the Pure and Wrath of God in the main board, as they are good spells for creature heavy meta. I haven't done any testing on this list so perhaps you might want to play around or tweak it futher ;).
Hope you still have enough time to playtest or work on this list :).
With those cards keeping aside:
1x Brave the Elements
1x Celestial Purge
1x Stony Silence
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Pithing Needle
1x Rest in Peace
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
Or trying to get:
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Wanted to ask you, what changes would you do - especially in terms of lands maybe, I proly need to get more fetches which I don't own atm ... based on some advices I will know what to try to obtain I traded out 2 Caverns for a nice price, maybe later I will try to get em back ...
My current modern meta at LGS is Affinity, Zoo, Splinter Twin Combo (Kiki, Exarch, Vendilion Clique kinda), nice R/W land fall burn, Black Discard etc.
2-1 against Combo Elves
1-2 against Merfolk
2-1 against BW Hatebears
2-0 against a Standard Rock deck.
All Stars: Knight of Meadowgrain - Lifelink was very relevant in both the BW Hatebears match as well as the Merfolk match. I managed to outrace the Fish thanks to it in one game, as well as keep myself off critical life against 2 Deathrites against BW Hatebears.
Brave the Elements - Be it saving my creature from getting Path'd or for the final alpha strike, I was always happy to see this card. Glad that I decided to bring it up to a 4-of because I won at least half my games on a BtE'd alpha.
Aether Vial - I can't believe I almost took these out for an equipment package! Flooding the board with knights for early pressure is as important as anything for the weenie deck. Only complaint is that it's an awkward topdeck.
Knight of the White Orchid - I've always hit 4+ mana thanks to this guy. Considering I'm running 20 lands, getting off those double Knight drops later on (without Vial) was great. Starting games off on the draw with 1 land and this guy in hand worked out each time too.
Leonin Skyhunter - Never has evasion been more relevant. The early beats from these guys are great to set up the final alpha later. With the first strikers holding the fort these guys set up the win.
Mirran Crusader - Because whoa boy does it lay the smack down. Amazing with anthems online.
Not much action:
Knight of the Holy Nimbus - I didn't get much out of him. Maybe I couldn't appreciate it, but it did kinda screw with some of my opponent's tempo just trying to get rid of him, and it was the first thing path'd in my BW Hatebears match, so I'm sure it must have meant something. Maybe he's really just more for defense, but I can see cutting him down to 2 or 3.
Sword of War and Peace - Didn't come out at all, and I feel like if it did, it would be too slow.
Honestly not a lot to say for the tournament report, the deck is very relaxing to play. Play dudes, turn them sideways, don't make any bad combat decisions. Each game pretty much played out the same way. I can see myself swapping in more first striking knights, possibly in the position of Knight of the Holy Nimbus. Perhaps Sigiled Paladin? I don't know. But having that wall of first strike up was great for the defense.
As far as subbing out Elspeth Tirel goes... I'll probably just find a one of like White Orchard that I can fit in there. Phyrexian Metamorph is a fun suggestion as well.
Edit: Looks like we posted at the same time Sesordereht. Any chance we can get a matchup review? I'm interested about the Merfolk game and the Elves particulary. (:
As far as subbing out Elspeth Tirel goes... I'll probably just find a one of like White Orchard that I can fit in there. Phyrexian Metamorph is a fun suggestion as well.
Edit: Looks like we posted at the same time Sesordereht. Any chance we can get a matchup review? I'm interested about the Merfolk game and the Elves particulary. (:
For the elves game, I was up against a friend of mine, he actually did a few misplays by blocking a few of my first strikers thinking that it was a "trade". It was pretty much an all out race for me since I knew he could go off as soon as turn 3-4, and I've found the deck needs that Vial burst to even wish to get things done by then. MVPs for two games were a Mirran Crusader (pro-green) and Leonin Skyhunter (evasion), I basically held back with first strikers, beat down with evasion, and did an alpha as soon as the BtE appeared.
I got my ass kicked sideways game two since he combo'd out with Intruder Alarm made 30+ mana, drew a bunch of cards, played a bunch of creatures, and Craterhoof'ed for over 40 trample damage. I had a board of 4-5 knights back then, but it wouldn't have been enough. A path would have helped but I didn't have any for the life of me.
Game 3 played out pretty much the same way as game one, I got lucky that he didn't get the combo together soon enough before getting his side of the board conquered by the crusade of knights.
The Merfolk match was a tough one. I knew what he was playing since he's a friend of mine, so it helped a bit knowing what to expect. Game one we both start out strong with Vial's on our first turns, and I go with an early Meadowgrain to get some life stocked up, it mattered lots because we eventually got to the point of having to race each other out and luckily I curved out perfectly to play everything I had in my hand. But it was still a close one.
Game two was rough. I had to mull down to 5 and I kept a 1 lander with double White Orchid. It worked out since I didn't miss any land drops and got to play everything, but unfortunately the mulls really hit hard. Without the critical mass of creatures (and without vial to get them out faster), the deck folded to 5/5 and 6/6 merfolks early in the game.
I realize that against the merfolk match where they get incrementally larger, you really need to get enough damage in early (while the fish are smaller, and still afraid to block), and go for a full sweep later.
Game 3 had me see a pair of Vapor Snags on my T2 (Leonin Skyhunter) and T3 (Knight Exemplar) plays, On turn 4 I did a double Leonin Skyhunter and followed T5 with a Knight Exemplar. At this point he had a board with 4 Fish, 3 of which were lords. My Skyhunters are met with an Echoing Truth later on and I replay them, but he goes for an alpha strike and I was out of blockers to keep my game afloat.
Yeah Merfolk I feel is a race that Merfolk are typically favoured in (especially with Spreading Seas), but we can get the advantage if we drop an early Meadowgrain that can buy us an extra turn for the return alpha strike.
That would be a close matchup every game I would think! Exciting (:
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Yeah Merfolk I feel is a race that Merfolk are typically favoured in (especially with Spreading Seas), but we can get the advantage if we drop an early Meadowgrain that can buy us an extra turn for the return alpha strike.
That would be a close matchup every game I would think! Exciting (:
The swings are so huge that a single BtE alpha is all it takes to close out those last few points. But Merfolk chucking out 6/6's is crazy.
In case you're wondering, I got swarmed out because the guy had two Mutavaults in the back :| 6/6 land? Great.
The swings are so huge that a single BtE alpha is all it takes to close out those last few points. But Merfolk chucking out 6/6's is crazy.
In case you're wondering, I got swarmed out because the guy had two Mutavaults in the back :| 6/6 land? Great.
I love me some Mutavaults! I run them in my Knight Deck as well because it's always nice to have an extra attack/indestructible blocker as well as getting them to waste land destruction/PtE on it if they aren't paying attention.
So... how come no Student of Warfare?
Edit: And may I just say I LOVE your sideboard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I love me some Mutavaults! I run them in my Knight Deck as well because it's always nice to have an extra attack/indestructible blocker as well as getting them to waste land destruction/PtE on it if they aren't paying attention.
So... how come no Student of Warfare?
Edit: And may I just say I LOVE your sideboard.
I think I could have done well with getting a few Mutavaults into the deck, I can't imagine how many though. My friend's Merfolk deck runs the full four, but doesn't seem to run into as many problems. Though I think Knights are slightly (if at all) more color intensive.
As per Student of Warfare, it was a bit of a toss up really, I can't imagine how upset I'd feel getting that Student in, leveling it twice to get it Vapor Snagged though. I think the whole business of having to sink mana into it is a bit unappealing. If anything I'd run maybe 1 or 2. Great if you run into it early, great if you run into it late. But you don't generally want to run into it.
I've got a bunch of decks running white so I'm very happy with how flexible they are sharing cards for the sideboard, white has got to be hands down one of the best colors for board answers. I was expecting to run into some Pod (Suppression Field) or UWR (Defense Grid). Interestingly enough the Defense Grids played nicely on my BW Hatebear match, but I think the Suppression Fields might have been better since those Deathrites really ate my life away. It literally only stopped because there was nothing left in the graveyards, and if not for the lifegain from a Knight of Meadowgrain who I sent into her death for what would look like a bad attack, my final Brave the Elements would have been the death of me.
My opponent actually dropped a Linvala while I had a Knight of the Holy Nimbus in play. "So I guess it's permanently on auto-regen?". I pathed the Linvala though. Can't have a flying 3/4 around.
Fair enough. I always liked the Student since he was almost always useful since you hit that point T3-4 where there just isn't a major use for mana and the one drop can come in if you have nothing else or off of Aether Vial when nothing else will do. I'm running 4-of like I posted above, but you make a decent point about running less. I guess once I have a chance to test it out I'll really know. Maybe Order of the Golden Cricket could sub in for 1-2 of them if I end up removing any. I'm not thinking I will though, in my games I've always liked the quantity of them that I've gotten.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Silverblade Paladin feels lackluster when compared to Kinsbaile Cavalier if you ask me. 1 more mana to give everything double strike always? Yes please! Am I alone in this thinking?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Silverblade Paladin feels lackluster when compared to Kinsbaile Cavalier if you ask me. 1 more mana to give everything double strike always? Yes please! Am I alone in this thinking?
I could see myself running a Singleton. But in the 4 drop slot it has to compete with Elspeth KE.
Imagine launching a mirran crusader. Take 10?
I might try that out. Maybe toss in some Sigiled Paladins.
Magical Christmas Land:
T1 Vial,
T2 Any 2/2 Knight,
T3 Swing for 2, Mirran Crusader, EOT vial Any 2/2 Knight,
T4 Elspeth, vial Exemplar, Swing for 18.
I understand the arguement between Elspeth and Kinsbaile, that's obviously going in Elspeth's favor... but this isn't about her, so I don't understand why you even bring it up.
I still believe that Hero of Bladehold and Silverblade Paladin are going to be subpar in any knights list, but to each their own. I hope it works out for you.
I see no reason why you decided to go offensive and attack card choice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
It's obviously going to depend on your meta, but most of the time, Kinsbale Cavalier is the weaker card because it costs that extra mana. It's a huge advantage to be able to keep the Vial at 3 instead of having to go up to 4.
Have any of you considered Phyrexian Metamorph? At the very least, it can be Knight Exemplar 4-8, and can often match any bigger beaters that come out (it's always fun Vialing out an Emrakul or a Jin-Gitaxias, even if the legend rule doesn't apply anymore). The benefit is that you can usually cast it at three mana, but you have to go up to 4 in order to bring it in with the Vial.
As far as other cards, Student of Warfare has always felt underwhelming to me. Most good players wait until you pump it to 3 before bolting or PtE'ing it, and boom... tempo loss.
Lastly, I've always thought Ajani Goldmane was underrated in this deck. That +1/+1 counter/vigilance ability is really hard to watch from the other side of the table.
(Also, only 3 Aether Vials. You don't want to draw 2.)
It's obviously going to depend on your meta, but most of the time, Kinsbale Cavalier is the weaker card because it costs that extra mana. It's a huge advantage to be able to keep the Vial at 3 instead of having to go up to 4.
Have any of you considered Phyrexian Metamorph? At the very least, it can be Knight Exemplar 4-8, and can often match any bigger beaters that come out (it's always fun Vialing out an Emrakul or a Jin-Gitaxias, even if the legend rule doesn't apply anymore). The benefit is that you can usually cast it at three mana, but you have to go up to 4 in order to bring it in with the Vial.
As far as other cards, Student of Warfare has always felt underwhelming to me. Most good players wait until you pump it to 3 before bolting or PtE'ing it, and boom... tempo loss.
Lastly, I've always thought Ajani Goldmane was underrated in this deck. That +1/+1 counter/vigilance ability is really hard to watch from the other side of the table.
(Also, only 3 Aether Vials. You don't want to draw 2.)
I'd rather draw two than draw none. The tempo you gained makes up for the dead draw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
In Sesordereht's perfect scenario, he dealt 20 damage by turn 4, considering all 4 land drops and an Elspeth, Knight-Errant on hand. With Student and Silverblade it's not hard to encounter something like:
Of course this is a perfect, unanswered scenario, but compares really well to the other decks in their best hands, let alone considering the missed land drop. I think it's quite something to drop them to 11 before they play their 3rd land, considering I'm in the play.
Anyway, I hope to hear more about the Vials against more competitive decks, since I'm currently playing casualy.
In Sesordereht's perfect scenario, he dealt 20 damage by turn 4, considering all 4 land drops and an Elspeth, KnightErrant on hand. With Student and Silverblade it's not hard to encounter something like:
Of course this is a perfect, unanswered scenario, but compares really well to the other decks in their best hands. I think it's quite something to drop them to 11 before they play their 3rd land, considering I'm in the play.
Anyway, I hope to hear more about the Vials against more competitive decks, since I'm currently playing casualy.
Hey there, welcome to the game, forum, and thread!
Vials are absolutely amazing.
To begin with, they make your creatures uncounterable.
Let me continue that, they make your creatures uncounterable, and your opponent has no idea what you're putting down until it's too late to do anything about it (if they pass priority, since you don't reveal the card you're putting into play until you resolve the ability).
Second, Vials give you tempo. It's essentially a pocket of lands, that you can use to play creatures! Why does this matter? Because you can hold mana open for spells like Brave the Elements and Path to Exile.
Knights tend to require you put put pressure down early, and have someone finish off the job either single handedly (launched by elspeth, or go in for an Alpha Strike via BtE). Since mid-game they SHOULD have blockers and answers (unless you're lucky, wipe the floor with them!). And Vial lets you do that, Vial gives you the EoT T3 two drop that gets followed up by that Knight Exemplar.
For now this is my build for my meta, which is green, red, and black heavy. The most challenging decks I face with this are usually Elves, Devour Dragons, and Gruul decks. For these reasons, I've teched in a Grand Abolisher in order to prevent things like fog,beast within,and other cards that would slow down my assault.
I also have to say that in the debate for silverblade paladin over kinsbaile cavalier, I favor just 1 kinsbaile. While both give double strike, relying on a soulbond to do a massive move is not always in your favor, and the extra 1 drop to give them all double strike can be much scarier. However, I do not rely on double strike, and only see the need for 1 kinsbaile. I would rather build up my army fast, then let him drop for the final blow or at least clear the field for my following turn.
I would like to eventually tech in aether vial, but I would need to get a play set of them to work, and they are rather expensive ($17-22 a piece) to get. I have 3 other decks (myrs, splicers, and dimir mill) that I maintain, so for now I will go without the vial.
On the up side of things, I have only lost thus far with this build to vampires. Only one person where I am at plays them, and having little to no flying defense against his low drop vampires is my downfall.
But tell me what you think, or if you see any room for improvements
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So I posted this a few pages back, but didn't really get any feedback. I'm looking to make it more competitive (taking it to a Modern FNM for the first time this upcoming Friday) in a 1v1 matchup. Anyone have any pointers for me? Thanks in advance (:
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Neither Tirel nor *** works well in the MB imo. Knight-Errant is much better than Tirel, in costing less and helping us more in actually winning the game. And unless your meta is heavily creature-based, *** is probably a bad idea since Knights is a creature-based deck itself.
You could also run one or two swords MB. You'll most likely also have problems casting the expensive cards (Elspeth and Kinsbaile), so I'd add 2 or 3 more lands.
See if you can make space for the last leyline in the SB too.
Sorry for the late reply, my computer is down for this few days :(....
I hope this reply is helpful for you and comes in time for your preparations for the Modern FNM
Firstly, I agree with Nikeyeia that Elspeth Tirel and Wrath of God is not really suitable in the main decklist.
Wrath of God is good in matchups when you expect hexproof creatures, plenty of flyers, mass tokens or aggressive creature decks like Zoo etc. Wrath is also not easy to cast at 4cc, and can effectively cost us 3 turns before we can attack again (1st turn - Wrath, 2nd turn - cast creature, 3rd turn - finallly can attack). Although, Aether Vial, Wrath of God and Knight Exemplar is a very good trick to pull off, a spot removal on Exemplar in response would just meant a complete wipeout. To conclude, 1 or 2 Wrath mainboard might be possible, but playing 4 is definitely out of the question. Playing 4 Wrath effects and 4 Path to Exile is overkill when Knights are also a creature deck. That said, I can see 2 mainboard and 2 sideboard if you feel your meta calls for creature board wipe spells.
Honestly I don't like Elspeth Tirel at all in the decklist, although at least you have Leonin Skyhunter to protect her from fliers so you could still use her wipe effect next turn :thumbsup:. Overall I think the deck also lacks a good way to protect Elspeth Tirel sufficiently to ensure you can use her -5 ability. Moreover at 5cc, I think she's way too slow to begin with.
Regarding the use of 4x Aether Vial and 4x Honor of the Pure in the same decklist - I'm never an advocate of playing all 8 of this non-creature spells. If you are going to play Vial for the combat/flash tricks, you should always play 4, in order to increase your chances of casting them as early as possible. However first and foremost you need to consistently cast creatures in order to maximise the usefulness of either Vial or Honor, and playing 4 of both cards reduces this very consistency. Since Vial cannot be reduced, I'll try to increase the creature count, perhaps by dropping 2 Honor and add in a few 2 drops Knights. There might also be more slots for creatures by removing some wraths.
The sideboard definitely needs some kind of overhaul :rolleyes:. Like Nikeyeia pointed out, you should just play a full set of Leyline of Sanctity. This Leyline is a card when you sideboard in you absolutely want to have it in the opening hand or to draw it eventually. Regarding the swords, I feel you don't need to play them in your sideboard at all. They used to do that when there is a mainboard Stoneforge Mystic or Steelshaper's Gift so they could maximise the chances of drawing the correct single sword. However without the tutors this randomness will work against you, it still comes down to consistently problems in the end. There is little point of sideboarding a card when chances of drawing it is extremely low.
Unfortunately we can't port Merfolk land base over to Knights. Merfolks casting casts are less demanding than Knights, who requires a heavy W base. In fact I actually felt you need to cut down to 3 Mutavault and run more Plains instead. At least 21 lands :thumbsup:.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Though Wrath of God may become more relevant if Thrun becomes popular courtesy of that new legend rule coming up.
Divine Reckoning doesn't kill off Knight of the Holy Nimbus like *** does. And has a Flashback for reuse later on (great if you've got an Exemplar online, and want to keep their creatures down).
But is the 'drawback' of allowing one of their creatures to live worth it? You might be staring down a GosT with a Batterskull on.
Some valid points, thanks! I'll have to tweak it a bit. I do believe there will be a creature heavy meta, but I think that running as many as I am is definitely overkill. I'll be moving the Wraths to SB. Tirel was really just for some fun testing and I think that although good in Multiplayer that she is lacking in the 1v1 scene.
So what are some good alternatives to swap into a mono white knight deck?
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I would say to add a bit of Brave the Elements to your deck. Not only does it help protect from burn spells, but if you fight a deck that has a large selection of colored creatures, you can play this, call protection from the more troublesome creatures Mana color, and then swing. against decks who share a color, like guilds, and mono color decks, this typically lets you go with a free full on swing for game. That being said, the one thing to worry about in that is fog. This is why I run Grand Abolisher in my knights at 2, simply because I can make sure my opponent cannot respond to anything I do during my turn besides blocking...unless I use Brave the Elements, which seals the game.
Elspeth Knight-Errant is also a good card to run in place of your current Elspeth. She has only one minus ability, and she also becomes a target for your opponent.
Cavern of Souls works wonders in this deck, especially at 2. Calling Knight basically makes your knights hit the field no matter what, and if you splash in the Abolisher, you can call Human and do the same thing.
Unfortunately I'm not into Divine Reckoning, because in most situations/scenarios when we cast a board wipe, we really want to clear the board of creatures, and we don't want them to be able to keep their best creature on the board. Basically the reason for board wipe is either 1) clear the opponent's board of creatures when their board is overwhelming. 2) finish off their hexproof creatures. Divine Reckoning does not do the second portion well - like you pointed out about GosT. For this reason, Wrath of God is always better here since it is more relevant across different situations.
At this point of time I'm not too keen on a mono-white build, but since this is the direction you are going with I'll make a list as well, as usual I'll try to stick as close as possible to your original list so your playstyle and original decklist is not massively effected.
18 Plains
3 Mutavault
Creatures (27)
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
3 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Kinsbaile Cavalier
4 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Student of Warfare
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Aether Vial
Other Spells (8)
2 Honor of the Pure
2 Wrath of God
4 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Rest in Peace
3 Celestial Purge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Brave the Elements
I kept some Honor of the Pure and Wrath of God in the main board, as they are good spells for creature heavy meta. I haven't done any testing on this list so perhaps you might want to play around or tweak it futher ;).
Hope you still have enough time to playtest or work on this list :).
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
This is one I play:
2x Forest
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Marsh Flats
10x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Tectonic Edge
4x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Path to Exile
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Knight of the White Orchid
2x Mirran Crusader
3x Qasali Pridemage
4x Student of Warfare
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
4x AEther Vial
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Faith's Shield
2x Kataki, War's Wage
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Paladin en-Vec
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Wrath of God
With those cards keeping aside:
1x Brave the Elements
1x Celestial Purge
1x Stony Silence
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Pithing Needle
1x Rest in Peace
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
Or trying to get:
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Wanted to ask you, what changes would you do - especially in terms of lands maybe, I proly need to get more fetches which I don't own atm ... based on some advices I will know what to try to obtain I traded out 2 Caverns for a nice price, maybe later I will try to get em back ...
My current modern meta at LGS is Affinity, Zoo, Splinter Twin Combo (Kiki, Exarch, Vendilion Clique kinda), nice R/W land fall burn, Black Discard etc.
Any advices welcome ...
20x Plains
Creatures [24]:
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Leonin Skyhunter
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Aether Vial
4x Path to Exile
4x Brave the Elements
3x Honor of the Pure
1x Sword of War and Peace
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Suppression Field
3x Defense Grid
2x Wrath of God
2x Disenchant
1x Rest in Peace
2-1 against Combo Elves
1-2 against Merfolk
2-1 against BW Hatebears
2-0 against a Standard Rock deck.
All Stars:
Knight of Meadowgrain - Lifelink was very relevant in both the BW Hatebears match as well as the Merfolk match. I managed to outrace the Fish thanks to it in one game, as well as keep myself off critical life against 2 Deathrites against BW Hatebears.
Brave the Elements - Be it saving my creature from getting Path'd or for the final alpha strike, I was always happy to see this card. Glad that I decided to bring it up to a 4-of because I won at least half my games on a BtE'd alpha.
Aether Vial - I can't believe I almost took these out for an equipment package! Flooding the board with knights for early pressure is as important as anything for the weenie deck. Only complaint is that it's an awkward topdeck.
Knight of the White Orchid - I've always hit 4+ mana thanks to this guy. Considering I'm running 20 lands, getting off those double Knight drops later on (without Vial) was great. Starting games off on the draw with 1 land and this guy in hand worked out each time too.
Leonin Skyhunter - Never has evasion been more relevant. The early beats from these guys are great to set up the final alpha later. With the first strikers holding the fort these guys set up the win.
Mirran Crusader - Because whoa boy does it lay the smack down. Amazing with anthems online.
Not much action:
Knight of the Holy Nimbus - I didn't get much out of him. Maybe I couldn't appreciate it, but it did kinda screw with some of my opponent's tempo just trying to get rid of him, and it was the first thing path'd in my BW Hatebears match, so I'm sure it must have meant something. Maybe he's really just more for defense, but I can see cutting him down to 2 or 3.
Sword of War and Peace - Didn't come out at all, and I feel like if it did, it would be too slow.
Honestly not a lot to say for the tournament report, the deck is very relaxing to play. Play dudes, turn them sideways, don't make any bad combat decisions. Each game pretty much played out the same way. I can see myself swapping in more first striking knights, possibly in the position of Knight of the Holy Nimbus. Perhaps Sigiled Paladin? I don't know. But having that wall of first strike up was great for the defense.
Feel free to ask any questions
As far as subbing out Elspeth Tirel goes... I'll probably just find a one of like White Orchard that I can fit in there. Phyrexian Metamorph is a fun suggestion as well.
Edit: Looks like we posted at the same time Sesordereht. Any chance we can get a matchup review? I'm interested about the Merfolk game and the Elves particulary. (:
Updated list at the present moment:
12 Plains
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Mutavault
Creatures (24)
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Student of Warfare
4 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
2 Kinsbaile Cavalier
2 Knight of the White Orchid
4 AEther Vial
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
4 Brave the Elements
No sideboard yet, I'll work on that as this upcoming Friday approaches. Thoughts?
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
For the elves game, I was up against a friend of mine, he actually did a few misplays by blocking a few of my first strikers thinking that it was a "trade". It was pretty much an all out race for me since I knew he could go off as soon as turn 3-4, and I've found the deck needs that Vial burst to even wish to get things done by then. MVPs for two games were a Mirran Crusader (pro-green) and Leonin Skyhunter (evasion), I basically held back with first strikers, beat down with evasion, and did an alpha as soon as the BtE appeared.
I got my ass kicked sideways game two since he combo'd out with Intruder Alarm made 30+ mana, drew a bunch of cards, played a bunch of creatures, and Craterhoof'ed for over 40 trample damage. I had a board of 4-5 knights back then, but it wouldn't have been enough. A path would have helped but I didn't have any for the life of me.
Game 3 played out pretty much the same way as game one, I got lucky that he didn't get the combo together soon enough before getting his side of the board conquered by the crusade of knights.
The Merfolk match was a tough one. I knew what he was playing since he's a friend of mine, so it helped a bit knowing what to expect. Game one we both start out strong with Vial's on our first turns, and I go with an early Meadowgrain to get some life stocked up, it mattered lots because we eventually got to the point of having to race each other out and luckily I curved out perfectly to play everything I had in my hand. But it was still a close one.
Game two was rough. I had to mull down to 5 and I kept a 1 lander with double White Orchid. It worked out since I didn't miss any land drops and got to play everything, but unfortunately the mulls really hit hard. Without the critical mass of creatures (and without vial to get them out faster), the deck folded to 5/5 and 6/6 merfolks early in the game.
I realize that against the merfolk match where they get incrementally larger, you really need to get enough damage in early (while the fish are smaller, and still afraid to block), and go for a full sweep later.
Game 3 had me see a pair of Vapor Snags on my T2 (Leonin Skyhunter) and T3 (Knight Exemplar) plays, On turn 4 I did a double Leonin Skyhunter and followed T5 with a Knight Exemplar. At this point he had a board with 4 Fish, 3 of which were lords. My Skyhunters are met with an Echoing Truth later on and I replay them, but he goes for an alpha strike and I was out of blockers to keep my game afloat.
That would be a close matchup every game I would think! Exciting (:
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
The swings are so huge that a single BtE alpha is all it takes to close out those last few points. But Merfolk chucking out 6/6's is crazy.
In case you're wondering, I got swarmed out because the guy had two Mutavaults in the back :| 6/6 land? Great.
I love me some Mutavaults! I run them in my Knight Deck as well because it's always nice to have an extra attack/indestructible blocker as well as getting them to waste land destruction/PtE on it if they aren't paying attention.
So... how come no Student of Warfare?
Edit: And may I just say I LOVE your sideboard.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I think I could have done well with getting a few Mutavaults into the deck, I can't imagine how many though. My friend's Merfolk deck runs the full four, but doesn't seem to run into as many problems. Though I think Knights are slightly (if at all) more color intensive.
As per Student of Warfare, it was a bit of a toss up really, I can't imagine how upset I'd feel getting that Student in, leveling it twice to get it Vapor Snagged though. I think the whole business of having to sink mana into it is a bit unappealing. If anything I'd run maybe 1 or 2. Great if you run into it early, great if you run into it late. But you don't generally want to run into it.
I've got a bunch of decks running white so I'm very happy with how flexible they are sharing cards for the sideboard, white has got to be hands down one of the best colors for board answers. I was expecting to run into some Pod (Suppression Field) or UWR (Defense Grid). Interestingly enough the Defense Grids played nicely on my BW Hatebear match, but I think the Suppression Fields might have been better since those Deathrites really ate my life away. It literally only stopped because there was nothing left in the graveyards, and if not for the lifegain from a Knight of Meadowgrain who I sent into her death for what would look like a bad attack, my final Brave the Elements would have been the death of me.
My opponent actually dropped a Linvala while I had a Knight of the Holy Nimbus in play. "So I guess it's permanently on auto-regen?". I pathed the Linvala though. Can't have a flying 3/4 around.
Order of the Golden Cricket looks like an interesting card maybe as a 1 or 2 of. I really liked playing the Leonin Skyhunters, the evasion was very relevant.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I could see myself running a Singleton. But in the 4 drop slot it has to compete with Elspeth KE.
Imagine launching a mirran crusader. Take 10?
I might try that out. Maybe toss in some Sigiled Paladins.
Magical Christmas Land:
T1 Vial,
T2 Any 2/2 Knight,
T3 Swing for 2, Mirran Crusader, EOT vial Any 2/2 Knight,
T4 Elspeth, vial Exemplar, Swing for 18.
I'm not saying that Kinsbaile is the beat all card, just saying I feel like Silverblade Paladin is subpar in general.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I still believe that Hero of Bladehold and Silverblade Paladin are going to be subpar in any knights list, but to each their own. I hope it works out for you.
I see no reason why you decided to go offensive and attack card choice.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Have any of you considered Phyrexian Metamorph? At the very least, it can be Knight Exemplar 4-8, and can often match any bigger beaters that come out (it's always fun Vialing out an Emrakul or a Jin-Gitaxias, even if the legend rule doesn't apply anymore). The benefit is that you can usually cast it at three mana, but you have to go up to 4 in order to bring it in with the Vial.
As far as other cards, Student of Warfare has always felt underwhelming to me. Most good players wait until you pump it to 3 before bolting or PtE'ing it, and boom... tempo loss.
Lastly, I've always thought Ajani Goldmane was underrated in this deck. That +1/+1 counter/vigilance ability is really hard to watch from the other side of the table.
(Also, only 3 Aether Vials. You don't want to draw 2.)
I'd rather draw two than draw none. The tempo you gained makes up for the dead draw.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Well, first of all, I'm new to this forum and relativelly new to MtG, but I had to register to join the discussion since I'm a mono-white decks lover.
I'm running a still budget version of the Knights deck on MTGO, so I have 2 Hero of the Bladehold replacing Elspeth, Knight-Errant. In addition, I haven't got hold of the Aether Vials yet. But I want to defend Student of Warfare and Silverblade Paladin.
In Sesordereht's perfect scenario, he dealt 20 damage by turn 4, considering all 4 land drops and an Elspeth, Knight-Errant on hand. With Student and Silverblade it's not hard to encounter something like:
T1 - Student of Warfare
T2 - Level Student, Swing for 3
T3 - Silverblade Paladin, Swing for 6 (9 total)
T4a - 4th Land, 2x Honor of the Pure - Swing for 18 (27 total)
T4b - No land drop, Honor of the Pure or Knight Exemplar, Swing for 14 (23 total)
With Elspeth, it could even go:
T4c - Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Swing for 16 (25 total)
Of course this is a perfect, unanswered scenario, but compares really well to the other decks in their best hands, let alone considering the missed land drop. I think it's quite something to drop them to 11 before they play their 3rd land, considering I'm in the play.
Anyway, I hope to hear more about the Vials against more competitive decks, since I'm currently playing casualy.
Hey there, welcome to the game, forum, and thread!
Vials are absolutely amazing.
To begin with, they make your creatures uncounterable.
Let me continue that, they make your creatures uncounterable, and your opponent has no idea what you're putting down until it's too late to do anything about it (if they pass priority, since you don't reveal the card you're putting into play until you resolve the ability).
Second, Vials give you tempo. It's essentially a pocket of lands, that you can use to play creatures! Why does this matter? Because you can hold mana open for spells like Brave the Elements and Path to Exile.
Knights tend to require you put put pressure down early, and have someone finish off the job either single handedly (launched by elspeth, or go in for an Alpha Strike via BtE). Since mid-game they SHOULD have blockers and answers (unless you're lucky, wipe the floor with them!). And Vial lets you do that, Vial gives you the EoT T3 two drop that gets followed up by that Knight Exemplar.
3x Leonin Skyhunter
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Student of Warfare
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
1x Kinsbale Cavalier
1x Grand Abolisher
4x Honor of the pure
Instants:
4x Brave the Elements
4x Path to Exile
2x Wrath of God
Planeswalkers:
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
18x Plains
2x Cavern of Souls
For now this is my build for my meta, which is green, red, and black heavy. The most challenging decks I face with this are usually Elves, Devour Dragons, and Gruul decks. For these reasons, I've teched in a Grand Abolisher in order to prevent things like fog,beast within,and other cards that would slow down my assault.
I also have to say that in the debate for silverblade paladin over kinsbaile cavalier, I favor just 1 kinsbaile. While both give double strike, relying on a soulbond to do a massive move is not always in your favor, and the extra 1 drop to give them all double strike can be much scarier. However, I do not rely on double strike, and only see the need for 1 kinsbaile. I would rather build up my army fast, then let him drop for the final blow or at least clear the field for my following turn.
I would like to eventually tech in aether vial, but I would need to get a play set of them to work, and they are rather expensive ($17-22 a piece) to get. I have 3 other decks (myrs, splicers, and dimir mill) that I maintain, so for now I will go without the vial.
On the up side of things, I have only lost thus far with this build to vampires. Only one person where I am at plays them, and having little to no flying defense against his low drop vampires is my downfall.
But tell me what you think, or if you see any room for improvements