Hey guys, been awhile since I posted. I was having a rough time with the deck, lot of losses that were my fault just because I was missing lines of play or straight up misplaying the many decisions the deck creates, so I had been taking a break for a while. Just found out that all the cards are available on XMage so I think I will spend some more time working on it to maybe take to a PPTQ or Open down the line.
Anyways, I wanted to pop in and post because I noticed, Spage, that your list is looking surprisingly similar to mine, and I wanted to discuss the differences. Here is what I have sleeved up right now:
I went back to the main deck Galvanics because they are just a great all-around piece of control and I missed them. Main deck Surgicals came out because I think they were feeling far more powerful than they actually were. In a lot of instances I would have one just before or just after putting a solid lock on the game so they didn't really change anything. The Pyrite Spellbomb is leftover from when I added it for fighting Pod. I was having issues with their mana dorks slipping under Bridge so I threw it in for picking off their small stuff, but with Pod gone I can probably cut it.
I really like your main deck Spellskites. I had definitely been trying to figure out a solid way to protect our pieces from all the Abrupt Decay going around and I was considering going with Welding Jar, but I think the Skite is way more effective and great random hate on other decks.
Did the slowness of Trinket Mage ever hinder you? I have been avoiding it for that reason, but if it is improving consistency for you that much that it is worth it then I would be willing to give it a whirl.
Did the lack of Pyxis ever cause trouble? Usually we have enough grave hate that they are not super relevant, but I am always too afraid of Ancient Grudge to cut them.
Slylie, what is your sideboard with the mono B version? I really like the look of your list and am going to try it out. However, I'm wondering if there's any reason to limit your colors with the easy mana from glimmervoid and opal.
On games close to going to time, I board him in and go for the burn. I've one in extra rounds multiple times off Tezz.
I've actually taken a liking to Thopter Foundry over Tezz as my alt. wincon. Its like a mini-Tezz that costs 2 less and drops when it actually matters. When Tezz drops you probably have a lock, so the lifegain and lethal damage are mostly just gravy. Foundry comes down earlier, which allows you to gain life or create blockers when you actually need it. The life you can sac just enough to stay 1 point above death in extreme cases, the blockers are great, specially against those pesky 0/x creatures like Hierarch and having the option to create them after attackers are declared is good. Both the lifegain and blockers are good in the burn mtachup (our weakest). Plus its an artifact, making it easier to recur if you ship it to the grave early or easier to find with stirrings and its harder to get rid off than tezz. It also allows some tricky plays like saccing an already used and useless needle so that it can be recurred and reused on another target. Tezz is better in that it can almost always go lethal the turn after it comes down, foundry cant go lethal the turn after, but the tokens accumulate fast, specially with ruins in play and you can always lock their draw and sac everything for an alpha strike for a quick beatdown with flyers. The opponents usually just concede after the second or third tokens are created and they have no means to block them.
On another issue, I don't support going mono-B just because I don't like limiting my options. However, game after game it has become clear that opening with a discard spell in hand is extremely good. In my alt. wincon list with foundry I run, 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Kozileks. In my pure top control list I ditch foundry and lens of clarity for an extra 2 Duress. So I run 8 discard spells main for consistency.
Also, I see a lot of lists not running Pyxis or any other kind of grave hate like Tormod. Am I missing something? Is grave hate not useful in your lists? Some lists aren't even running Needle, I'm just baffled. lol.
When I just want to have fun with an alt. wincon: -2 Duress, +1 Lens of Clarity, +1 Thopter Foundry. I Could just add the foundry and ditch the lens, but I'm still testing lens, its actually a card I know a lot of you would like if you tested it, specially lists without lootings/stirrings. It just makes your deck in pre-lantern turns much more efficient. My sideboard is always changing, but that one has been working just fine.
EDIT: Can somebody run me through how to extract replays from cockatrice on a mac? I want to upload some replays since we're still lacking in gameplay videos. I just had a game vs splinter twin. Had an opening 7 with Academy, Tendo, Blast, Stirrings and 3 Bridges. Mulled it for fear the bridges would clog up. Went to 6, no lands. Went to 5, no lands. Went to 4, no lands. Went to 3, Bridge, Codex, Glimmervoid. Opponent on the play plays Island and passes (Im hoping its merfolk by now), I draw Sulfurous springs and play codex. Turn 2 he plays island and passes (Definitely not merfolk), I draw lantern, play springs and lantern. Academy on top, dispel on opponent's. Turn 3, no land drop and he passes, I play academy and pass, no bridge cause he had mana open. Turn 4 he plays serum which I let him draw to trick him into tapping a land, gets a deciever (Ah twin!), hes got 1 mana open, I draw Stirrings, play bridge and by now I've already won, I just didn't know it yet. After that I kept him off his fourth land long enough to get a rage quit while trying to find a discard spell for any cryptic he might have, which he didn't, though I already had a second bridge in hand in case he did.
Yeah, I run three Surgical Extraction in my maindeck. I'm liking them because they can neuter combo decks, extract answers to Bridge, reduce threats overall, and cause a shuffle effect in an emergency.
I prefer Mishra's Bauble over Lens of Clarity. I can use it on an opponent, it lets me dig through the deck faster, and can act as Lantern 5-8 when I have Academy Ruins out.
I have dropped Faithless Looting for the three Extractions and a fourth Bridge. I haven't gotten to test too much with it, but it's something that I plan on testing for a bit, and I'm of the opinion that it'll prove to be correct. I do still run a full playset of Ancient Stirrings. They're just so amazingly good.
Also, I see a lot of lists not running Pyxis or any other kind of grave hate like Tormod. Am I missing something? Is grave hate not useful in your lists? Some lists aren't even running Needle, I'm just baffled. lol.
As far as running Pyxis, I honestly don't see the need. I have a few (between 2-3) Surgical Extraction maindeck, and 4 Extirpates in the side for decks that rely heavily on the graveyard. Other than very specific flashback cards (Ancient Grudge) or something like Emrakul, I don't see any reason to be running Pyxis. Extraction takes care of Emrakul just fine and Extirpate takes care of Ancient Grudge, while having the upside of being generally useful as well. With so much discard, T1 Duress or Thoughtseize into Surgical Extraction can just win you the game in a few matchups (Splinter Twin, Tron, Scapeshift, Amulet Bloom).
I'm one of those not running Pithing Needle maindeck. I still have it in my side, but I'm moving farther and farther from it. It's just not reliable enough. It stops some things that aren't handled by Abrupt Decay like above 3 cost planeswalkers, but in general it's weak to their sideboard cards for you and it's not proactive enough. I'm also finding that it's just not that good against the things that I'm actually worried about in this deck. Ex: One thing I used to like it for was against Affinity, needling Cranial Plating. However, most Affinity lists are running Ancient Grudge, which leaves Ancient Grudge on Pithing Needle, flashback on Ensnaring Bridge, equip plating, win. That sort of interaction, where I was just sitting there with "End of turn I can get it back, but I'm dead this turn anyways" (same reason I'm considering Welding Jar again), was happening way too frequently against all the decks. I'd much rather just Abrupt Decay their Cranial Plating and be done with it. There's very few bases that aren't covered by a heavy discard package + AD + extraction effects for me.
The reason why I specifically dislike Pyxis is it doesn't work with academy ruins. Every day I'm getting more and more convinced that Academy Ruins is one of the best non-lock cards in the deck and anything that doesn't work with it should not be in the deck. Pyxis and elixer of immortality seem like good choices but fight Academy Ruins.
The reason why I specifically dislike Pyxis is it doesn't work with academy ruins. Every day I'm getting more and more convinced that Academy Ruins is one of the best non-lock cards in the deck and anything that doesn't work with it should not be in the deck. Pyxis and elixer of immortality seem like good choices but fight Academy Ruins.
This is a fair point. Academy Ruins is definitely one of our most useful cards and is responsible for keeping us in the game through lots of hardship. The arguments against Pyxis seem pretty sound, but without main deck extraction effects I am still too scared to cut them entirely. I will go down to 1 and see if not having consistent access to it ever hurts me.
Skeet70 does make a valid point on Surgical Extraction. In all my earlier versions I always pushed surgical to the side and rarely ever ran it on the SB. The few times I did ran it it for testing it didn't do enough but that was in earlier lists in which I didn't run discard main to power it. I ran skeet's list for a couple matches and surgical was better than I remember in tests. I've been testing it in my list, -2 tormod, +2 surgical and honestly the card is growing on me, I really never gave it any credit. Surgical is also some times down right absurd, like T1 thoughtsezie on Living End, Surgical, G2. I also understand the marginal uses like forced shuffles, but I didn't mind that much in the past since it wasn't a common occurence. What really sold me on it was one of my last games.
Vs UR Control, I got lantern, 4 millers and bridge, opponent has snapcaster on field. I had already extracted the other snaps, I'm down to 13 life, opponent has jace architect, Cryptic, Deprive, Bolt and electrolize on hand with other dead cards, I have a stirrings. He bolts me and taps for jace architect and does -2, keeps a bolt, I'm down to 10, I fix me a thoughtseize to draw and take out cryptic, i'm at 8 now, on his next turn he goes -2 on jace again and sacs it, keeps another bolt, my opponent now has 2 bolts and electrolize in hand with 4 islands and 2 steam vents untapped, I still have a stirrings in hand and 5 lands on field. Heres the tricky part. He taps vents to bolt me, then taps vents and 2 islands to electrolize me keeping 2 islands open for deprive, I fix me a 6th land for my draw, bait his deprive with stirrings, he falls for it, I tap my other 5 lands into codex, get surgical and pay 2 life to extract bolt off his hand stabilizing at 1 life. That move just blew my mind.
I'm still running a 1of pyxis main and considering going back to a 2/2 split with bells. Simply because it doesn't hurt and I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It does deal with emmy and whatnot just as good as surgical, but its main purpose is to deal with flashback cards, specially instants. Grudge being public enemy #1. Pyxis straight up exiles grudge while bell first sends it to the grave and then if your opponent is tapped out on G you must have a surgical on hand ready to go. I used to think pyxis was anti-ruins but honestly thats a non issue to me, Codex, Bridge, Bell and the 1 or 2of bullets are mainly what you don't want to be exiling and thats on average 16 out of 60 cards and its not common to only have pyxis as your only miller. The chances of pyxis screwing me are low enough for me to run it because when its useful the rewards are greater.
I'm not sold on the needle argument though, I would run decay alongside needle, but not decay instead of needle. I would run decay in a heavy aggro meta and probably alongside needle. I feel Needle and G.Blast deal with a wider range of threats than Decay and G.Blast. Specifically thinking of tron, but then theres things like the new kid on the block Tasigur which gets spells back from the grave. With S.Ooze on field a good pilot will keep their graves nearly empty of dead targets for tasigur. I've seen it happen
EDIT: I was at 13, not 11. Forgot the -2 from thoughtseize. Fixed the numbers.
EDIT 2: It keeps happening. On grindy games, tapping 5 into codex for surgical to extract their last hope is awesome and unexpected.
I figured how to extract replays, I'll be uploading interesting matchups as they come up. Like this one I just had:
Vs. Abzan
Really slow start as I mulled to 6 and kept a 3 lantern hand, had to keep a softlock with ruins+lanterns using it mostly to shuffle my library until I finally got a bell. But by then the opponent managed to drop tasigur with Ooze in play and things got scary as my opponent used tasigur and got pulse into grave, I gave him aven mindsensor and then he emptied his grave of all spells and creatures less pulse with ooze. I had to think a bit and in the end I won because he hit a path with tasigur before I drew a surgical for pulse and he left.
Special note on the needle vs decay debate: My opponent got to draw all 4 lilianas. A single needle stopped them all, decay would have only gotten rid of 1.
Also, the sunbeam that shows at the end, I had just put it there along with a 1of pyrite spellbomb. I like to play with fringe cards when I play at work since I can only do 1 game matches at work.
Just popping in to say I'm going to start testing Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer to see if he is worth it. Forgot he was a thing, and he might be a really useful thing for us against some matches, like for Non-red destruction removal. (The Vorthos in me also loves that flavour text)
Surgical Extraction is still the bee's knees, but the fact that at some points it was a do nothing card as well as it sometimes not doing enough on a Snapcaster Mage stack made me regulate it to Sideboard. God its good when it's good, but I don't fear grave decks enough to run two main board kill cards if the one I'm running is tutorable with my Mainboard Trinket Mages.
Were I not running Trinket Mages, I would run Surgicals. At least 2-3 of them.
What do you guys use to deal with Siege Rhino or Tasigur, the Golden Fang ? It seems like a very problematic cards. Once they hit the battlefield i feel like the only out in most of the builds i see here is Ensnaring Bridge. Is a T4 card really too slow against the top control match? Taisigur can be played early and it really mess the game with his activated ability, although you can pithing needle him i would really like to know what good removal can be used on them. Also, what is like the game against Junk?
I personally haven't tested them, mostly because at the point where they are useful the deck's lock should already be set up. Tasigur could be good, but only for his effect. The body does nothing for us because we are consistently not wanting to attack. The deck evolved around locking our opponent out of answers for bridge and protecting bridge. Sans bridge, we can still lock, but it's a bit more difficult due to the amounts of 1 for 1s we pack in our deck + the card disadvantage we initially take to set up the lock in the first place.
So why no Mass removal then? Mostly because creature based decks now a days have evolved around Mass removal. Good players can play around it, creatures like Kitchen Finks come back, and then some creatures like Primeval Titan don't even care if they hit, they just want to attack.
Set adrift could work only if it were instant, and really only to deal with cards like Stony Silence or Chalice of the Void. We are a reactive deck, and instant spells are very key to the deck(as well as the fun of the deck imo)
What do you guys use to deal with Siege Rhino or Tasigur, the Golden Fang ? It seems like a very problematic cards. Once they hit the battlefield i feel like the only out in most of the builds i see here is Ensnaring Bridge. Is a T4 card really too slow against the top control match? Taisigur can be played early and it really mess the game with his activated ability, although you can pithing needle him i would really like to know what good removal can be used on them. Also, what is like the game against Junk?
An enemy Tasigur could be an issue depending on what is in the opponents yard. I usually can mill enough that I can continue to give him crappy cards until I Pithing Needle him. An early Tasigur is no worse than a Tarmogoyf damage wise, so its not like his attack is hurting us any more than a deck pre-tasigur would.
Siege Rhino hurts, but only if they can flicker him a great bunch of times. Bridge stops him. Without bridge this deck can and has lost to an attacking Thalia. 2 damage a turn. What it comes down to again is not the Rhino or any other creature but the bridge removal. Those colors love those destroy effects, so we run Spellskites, Boros Charm, Welding Jar, Swan Song, and possibly Slobad, etc to stop those destroy effects. Opening hand + 2 cards is usually what the other deck gets to kill us with for removal. We are filtering our deck for the best cards while filtering their deck for the useless cards, meaning they should never draw Artifact removal, while we consistently draw our counters to their removals.
Its like how in Chess, generally the Piece putting your King in check isnt the actual issue, its just the killing blow. The issue is the pieces setting up and supporting that Kill piece. Give that Kill piece no support, and it can't kill. You can't win the game with one piece.
Hopefully this helps.
Edit: (Also this is why the Tron match up sucks sooo much. They can kill with one piece, it don't care about our filtering, and can possibly win without attacking.)
On a note. I should've use 2 Academy Ruins instead of 2 darksteel citadel. A guy is with my cards didn't showed up so i had to play with what i had.
I went 3-0 and drawed in the final to end in first with my friend so we both split the prize. The championship only played the swiss and the prize was given by standings.
Round 1: Merfolk 2-0
This match was really easy. I belive its a consensus that the deck have a great advantage in this match-up
Game 1:
I couldn't assemble the lock, but i droped a early bridge and two spellskites before he conceded. He made an interesting play when i had one card in hand. He vapor snaged my spellskite, attacked with Cursecatcher and Mutavault and after he declared attackers he vialed in a lord. He took a good 5 chunk of me. But after i emptied my hand again the bridge did its work. After around some 8 turns without me finding lantern he conceded. I belive he didn't had a answer main deck to spellskite + bridge
Sideboard: Out
-1 Nihil
-2 Beast Within
-1 Bauble
In
+4 Pyroclasm
I belive i should've put pithing needle out instead of the bauble. But i just forgot about the maindeck needle and used it to name mutavault when i drew it.
Game 2:
This game i assembled the lantern with a codex around turn 3. He put no pressure in the table trying to be a little more reactive, maybe really afraid of a bridge. Because of this i had all the time in the world. After he figured what was going on he started to tap out letting one mana open probably for Spell Snare or Spell Pierce. I sandbagged a mox, dropped it with my land drop and played a bridge with two mana to pay the pierce. He chuckled and said "Well, what can i do now?" and i replied "You can have a hurkyl's recall from your opening". He showed his hand and asked if i had i wincon so i pointed to codex shredder and he scooped.
Round 2: Tooth and Nail 2-0
This deck is a little unknown, but i already knew this deck because i started to build it. Im a sucker for rougue decks. Here is a list that took 1st place in SCG invitational
Game 1:
This was the most intense game in the whole tournament. There were times when i had three bridges in play and he sunddenly started chaining primal commands and eternal witness. But lets go from the start. The deck tries to ramp degenerated ammounts of mana with Voyaging Satyr and Arbor elf in conjunction with utopia sprawl and overgrowth. If he get 9 mana and entwine tooth and nail he get Emrakul with Xenagod and attack with a 30/30 flying eldrazi ftw.
I won the die roll and this was a few moments latter my salvation. At the start of the game he started with arbor elf t1 and overgrowth t2. T3 he would have 7 mana availabe to him. Luckly i had Beast within maindeck so i blew his forest in his upkeep. I already had the whole lock active with three bridges in play (i knew he wasn't using black so no Maelstrom Pulse. I saw a primal command on top and milled instead of exiling with pyxis. I totally forgot he had witness in the deck. That was when he started chaining those. He added 16 to his mana pool put a bridge on top of the deck, got another witness, played the witness got the command back and put other bridge on top of my deck. I even had spellskite, but Command says noncreature. That was when he made a mistake. Instead of making me shuffle my deck he took another witness. I think he overlook this mode.
After some moments more of grinding he had the chance of putting his hand in a Tooth and nail. I can't remember how. Maybe with the last witness he had in hand. He got a Acidic Slime and Huntmaster. This huntmaster started to do some good work on me until i could get a Galvanic Blast. It took did around to 8 damage all by himself. After all this he conceded.
Sideboard: Out
-3 Bauble
-1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
-1 Nihil Spellbomb
-2 Looting
-1 Ancient Stirrings
In
+4 Pyroclasm
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Beast Within
+1 Surgical Extraction
This sideboard was a little sketchy. I didn't knew what i wanted more between Stirrings and Loot so i took a split between them. Maybe i should've keep the Nihil spellbomb, but i belive the extraction would be way better taking of all the commands or all the tooth n nails.
Game 2:
If game 1 was the most intense this was the most easy game. He mulliganed to 5 and kept a hand with arbor elf, nykthos and stomping grounds. I managed to put darksteel citadel, mox, lantern and a needle on T1 for his elf. A few turns after i dropped a bridge. A little after heAncient Grudge my needle (oh how i hate this card). I had Beast within so i thouhgt and let he destroy the needle. He activated the elf to untap the land and in response i destroyed his land. After this he kept missing his land drops for a few turns what gave me the time to assemble the lock and deprive him from his lands.
Round 3: Zoo 2-1
This guy is the only Zoo player of the whole LGS and i was reeeeeally afraid of this match because of the pyroclasm instead of Firespout. I will come better suited next time with a split. Maybe even Anger of Gods.
Game 1:
This game he went really balls to the walls. T1 land Goblin Guide. T2 Goblin Guide. T3 Goblin Guide. Fortunatelly i had a t2 spellskite so i could hold off this one, but he still put me to 6 i think. Also he played only one land. I assembled the lock and deprived him of lands and from lightning bolts. I even named Ghor-Clan Rampager with pithing needle for the lulz. After some time he conceded.
Sideboard Out
-3 Bauble
-1 Nihil Spellbomb
-1 Pithing Needle
-2 Beast Within
-1 Faithless Looting
In
+4 Pyroclasm
+4 Leyline
Looting really underperformed in the games. Maybe i was just overseeing and forgeting to flashback it. Maybe in a shell with more delve cards like murderous cuts or taisigur. I took it out instead of Ancient Stirrings (this card guys. MVP). Maybe it was a mistake to put pyroclasm against zoo, but he used a playset of goblin guide, Burning-Tree Emissary and Experiment One. I belive it could be better than the stuff i took off
Game 2:
This one i started with a leyline and two pyroclasms in hand (thank god it was two). He played t1 Kird Ape and t2 Wild Nacatl. T3 he attacked with his dudes and played a experiment one. I ramped with mox opal and did a 3 for 2. I managed to put a Bridge and a Sunbeam Spellbomb in play, but he used Destructive Revelry on my bridge and kept playing more 1/1 experiment ones. After some time he finished me off.
Game 3:
This one was a copy of game 1. He tried to go with a one lander. And i managed to lock him off the game. Nothing much to be said about this. It was the last table so everyone on the LGS was watching and saying all the stuff everyone who plays with decks like those will eventually hear. But luckly some of the guys at the LGS thought this deck was rad and got impressed with it. Eventually i managed to mill him off the game.
An ocorrrence happened during this game. In the draw-go part of the game i kept playing my lands and artifacts. There was one point that i forgot to put my moxes in the grave because of the legendary rule. Someone pointed out and it was really awkward, specially since im a LVL1 judge. Luckly it didnt mattered in the game and the guys from the LGS are somewhat close and would not question my integrity.
Match 4:
I drew with a friend of mine. He was playing UWR and i belive i was favored in the match, but since he was my friend and asked to draw i did not refused. I got a little enerved with him because the split would let to 0.25 booster to someone, so he said "We can talk latter about who will get the rest". Since i was still a little shaken by my oversight with the moxes and the legend rule i was a little harsh on him. I said that he could not propose something like this and that he could get in trouble for saying things like those. But i still accepted the draw.
Overperforming cards:
-Beast Within: Nothing new to be said about something that get rid of anything in the game and have a pro that gets irrelevant with a bridge in play. This card always felt good in my grip.
-Ancient Stirrings: I really overcommited the deck with tons of digging and i did not regret this. When i had the idea about playing the deck i thought the deck would be way too inconsistent, but this card is way too good in the deck. I play with it in Bloom Titan also, and the ammount i felt the power of it in Top Control is waaaaay too absurd. I really liked this card.
-Ensnaring Bridge: Everynight from now i will make a prayer that my bridges will keep me away from all the evil in the world. I dont even know why there are builds of the deck with only 3 bridges.
Underperforming cards:
-Mishra Bauble: To tell the truth the card wasn't nor bad nor good. It cantriped, served as a hand emptier and helped the mox. But it didnt impressed me at all
-Faithless Loothing: I think it was a good call to put it in the deck to improve consistency. I was really afraid i would be left with broken pieces of the deck so i think this helped, but still didn't impressed me. Maybe i should've played the deck with this more in mind. In some games i top decked it and felt dumb for putting all my lands in play. But still had to empty the hand for the bridge. Its a little clunky.
Thoughts about the deck
The deck overperformed. I thought about playing it just for fun and would never think it could take 3 matchs in a row. In the long game the deck looked unbeatable. I felt that the deck NEEDS Academy Ruins. I think i could have won the second game against zoo if i had a ruins in play. And the card seems way too strong against counterspells. I will get two for the next times i play the deck. I also played the deck suboptmally. There were many turns when i didnt milled myself forgetting that i had codex shredder to get my cards back.
I also felt that discard spells would make huge difference. Maybe my build didn't supported it, but in a little different version some number of thoughtseizes, duress and IoK could make a huge difference.
Thanks a lot for everyone who contributed with the deck. I will definetly play more with it. Be on the watch for more reports.
I wholeheartedly agree with the 4x Ensnaring Bridge. I used to run 3, mostly due to budget, but buying that 4th one is definitely something I haven't regretted.
With Faithless Looting, something that I tend to do is dump any other Faithless Lootings that I've drawn, along with multiple mill pieces that I don't immediately need. I have the 2 Academy Ruins, though, so I understand why you may not have done this. I also dump Gitaxian Probe and Mishra's Baubles for Lootings in the early game quite often. Self-milling Faithless Looting almost feels broken.
I haven't tried Beast Within, but I also don't have Mox Opals due to budget, so I'm not sure if my manabase can support those.
It is awesome to see the deck do well! Thanks for the list and tournament report!
EDIT: In other news, I got to playtest against UR Delver today, using my updated list.
Game 1, I misplay. I have two Bridges in hand, and I know he doesn't have the counter for either of them because I viewed his hand with Gitaxian Probe and drew out the Spell Pierce with my Lantern of Insight (He saw the lock and wanted nothing of it). I draw three Faithless Looting, and end up losing with two Bridges and a Looting in hand. My mistake was that, for my first Looting, I discarded a land and a Looting rather than my extra Bridge and a Looting. I was worried about the 1-land per turn restriction causing lands to sit in my hand and making it so bridge didn't work, but instead I die with a Bridge in hand.
Games 2 and 3 I Duress away his counters and have the lock with Bridge super fast, just shutting him down completely. Pithing Needle was great, helping me manascrew him by naming his fetch that I saw on top as well as shutting off his Grim Lavamancers. He was super pissed, he'd spent a rather large amount of money on his foil Delver of Secrets that sat on the board and not attacking
So, while it's not a whole lot of new information, it was extremely fun. Also, current list:
One thing i should do is test duress or thoughtseize in the main. There are at least two Bloom Titans in my meta, and if one of those start with a Hive Mind in hand there is no way i can win the game.
Hey thnkr, why you dont use a split of pyxis and ghoulcaller? Dont you get worried about Ancient Grudge? You have any other answer to it or is just something you try to live with it?
Yeah, for the most part I just live with the threat of Ancient Grudge. I've faced it a few times, and it's not so bad so long as they don't draw it. I typically play out multiple Bridges if I think or know that my opponent has Grudge. The way I see it, for Pyxis is only useful for Grudge or Emrakul. Extraction takes care of Emrakul (or let them draw it), so that leaves Grudge. So, for Pyxis to be better than Bell, I would have to have drawn the Pyxis (out of however many would be in the deck), Grudge would have to be on top, and it would have to not matter what I have on top. For Bell to be better, I have to make it so that I have a redundant copy of whatever artifact they want to destroy in play. It wouldn't matter nearly as much what's on top for me.
For Bloom Titan, have you considered Ghost Quarter? It's great for that matchup, and pretty good for the Infect and Affinity matchup, too.
EDIT: Also, if you're running Surgical Extraction, Ghost Quarter does amazing things for the Scapeshift and Tron matchup as well.
Altar seems like a great way to get extra value from all your permanents, possibly speeding up the game, while Ashiok not only speeds up the game, but lets you grab dudes in case of emergency bridge breaking? I feel like this is a deck that Ashiok can reasonably ult in as well.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I feel as though I can weigh in on this decently well. In regards to Altar of the Brood, the issue with it is that it isn't always something you can control, and it only really benefits you once you've already got the lock online / enough redundant pieces already. It doesn't do anything to help you if you don't have a Lantern online, and unlike the other millrocks, it can't be used to dig through your own deck to find what you need. Beyond that, you also need to consider what you'd remove from the deck (depending on the particular variant you're thinking of as a starting point), as the "lock" pieces are core and Altar performs a similar role, just not with as much flexibility.
As for Ashiok, the Planeswalker of choice for most people running Top Control is Tezzeret. He costs one more than Ashiok, but can be used immediately to tutor with his +1 ability (essentially a free Ancient Stirrings), and threatens to ultimate straight away. Some have tried Liliana as well, and though it's hard to compare Liliana and Ashiok directly in this deck (Liliana supplements the lock well, can edict in a pinch, and her ultimate is devastating), I'd say that Liliana is the better option if you want a 3-mana Planeswalker in this style of deck.
Over the past month or so I've started playing Magic again after a 6-month break, and I've been experimenting with Top Control. When I'm not feeling quite so lazy (and actually finish it off) I'll post the list I'm running and how it's performing.
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These visions of mine... are they still daydreams if the sun is dead? Are they waking nightmares, instead, or is that what they always were?
Got to test against U-Tron today. I went 2-0, and the opponent was really cool the whole time. He/She made a couple of misplays, but each time we went back to correct them so that I got a true good testing experience. MVP's, aside from the typical combo pieces and Bridge, were Ghost Quarter and Ancient Grudge. Ancient Grudge gave me great answers to Chalice (two made it into play, and a single Grudge took them both out). Ghost Quarter took out Academy Ruins and put a major speedbump into the manaramp engine of Tron. Game 1 I used Pyrite Spellbomb to take out a Platinum Angel after opp had no cards left in library. IMO, this is a great matchup for us. I didn't realize that I had to register with Woogerworks to save the replay, though Registered now, so hopefully I'll have more replays coming soon.
I do need help testing against Burn, if anyone is up for it some time. I'm usually in the #mtgsalvation IRC channel, so that's the best place to find me other than posting in here. And, although I think it's already a good matchup, I want to test against Abzan to get a good feel for that matchup.
For some reason it won't let me edit my post, but cdsboy helped me test against burn tonight. Sun Droplet is definitely better than Dragon's Claw in that matchup. Yeah, if it gets destroyed, you don't gain life from the counters, but the same is with Dragon's Claw. A single Sun Droplet can help balance out from a single Goblin Guide, and if you can make them draw lands every other turn or so, you can afford to let them draw a burn spell, which you can't do with Dragon's Claw. I tested quite a few games, and lost nearly every single game with Dragon's Claw, swapped them with Sun Droplet, and immediately won. I'm still amazed at how well that card performed for me!
Anyways, I wanted to pop in and post because I noticed, Spage, that your list is looking surprisingly similar to mine, and I wanted to discuss the differences. Here is what I have sleeved up right now:
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
2 Ghoulcaller's Bell
4 Ensnaring Bridge
The Dig
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Faithless Looting
3 Infernal Tutor
3 Galvanic Blast
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
4 Mox Opal
4 Glimmervoid
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Reflecting Pool
2 Academy Ruins
1 Nephalia Drownyard
I went back to the main deck Galvanics because they are just a great all-around piece of control and I missed them. Main deck Surgicals came out because I think they were feeling far more powerful than they actually were. In a lot of instances I would have one just before or just after putting a solid lock on the game so they didn't really change anything. The Pyrite Spellbomb is leftover from when I added it for fighting Pod. I was having issues with their mana dorks slipping under Bridge so I threw it in for picking off their small stuff, but with Pod gone I can probably cut it.
I really like your main deck Spellskites. I had definitely been trying to figure out a solid way to protect our pieces from all the Abrupt Decay going around and I was considering going with Welding Jar, but I think the Skite is way more effective and great random hate on other decks.
Did the slowness of Trinket Mage ever hinder you? I have been avoiding it for that reason, but if it is improving consistency for you that much that it is worth it then I would be willing to give it a whirl.
Did the lack of Pyxis ever cause trouble? Usually we have enough grave hate that they are not super relevant, but I am always too afraid of Ancient Grudge to cut them.
I've actually taken a liking to Thopter Foundry over Tezz as my alt. wincon. Its like a mini-Tezz that costs 2 less and drops when it actually matters. When Tezz drops you probably have a lock, so the lifegain and lethal damage are mostly just gravy. Foundry comes down earlier, which allows you to gain life or create blockers when you actually need it. The life you can sac just enough to stay 1 point above death in extreme cases, the blockers are great, specially against those pesky 0/x creatures like Hierarch and having the option to create them after attackers are declared is good. Both the lifegain and blockers are good in the burn mtachup (our weakest). Plus its an artifact, making it easier to recur if you ship it to the grave early or easier to find with stirrings and its harder to get rid off than tezz. It also allows some tricky plays like saccing an already used and useless needle so that it can be recurred and reused on another target. Tezz is better in that it can almost always go lethal the turn after it comes down, foundry cant go lethal the turn after, but the tokens accumulate fast, specially with ruins in play and you can always lock their draw and sac everything for an alpha strike for a quick beatdown with flyers. The opponents usually just concede after the second or third tokens are created and they have no means to block them.
On another issue, I don't support going mono-B just because I don't like limiting my options. However, game after game it has become clear that opening with a discard spell in hand is extremely good. In my alt. wincon list with foundry I run, 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Kozileks. In my pure top control list I ditch foundry and lens of clarity for an extra 2 Duress. So I run 8 discard spells main for consistency.
Also, I see a lot of lists not running Pyxis or any other kind of grave hate like Tormod. Am I missing something? Is grave hate not useful in your lists? Some lists aren't even running Needle, I'm just baffled. lol.
3 Tendo Ice Bridge
3 Sulfurous Springs
2 Grove of The Burnwillows
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Academy Ruins
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Mox Opal
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Codex Shredder
2 Ghoulcaller's Bell
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
3 Galvanic Blast
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
1 Infernal Tutor
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Nature’s Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ghost Quarter
When I just want to have fun with an alt. wincon: -2 Duress, +1 Lens of Clarity, +1 Thopter Foundry. I Could just add the foundry and ditch the lens, but I'm still testing lens, its actually a card I know a lot of you would like if you tested it, specially lists without lootings/stirrings. It just makes your deck in pre-lantern turns much more efficient. My sideboard is always changing, but that one has been working just fine.
EDIT: Can somebody run me through how to extract replays from cockatrice on a mac? I want to upload some replays since we're still lacking in gameplay videos. I just had a game vs splinter twin. Had an opening 7 with Academy, Tendo, Blast, Stirrings and 3 Bridges. Mulled it for fear the bridges would clog up. Went to 6, no lands. Went to 5, no lands. Went to 4, no lands. Went to 3, Bridge, Codex, Glimmervoid. Opponent on the play plays Island and passes (Im hoping its merfolk by now), I draw Sulfurous springs and play codex. Turn 2 he plays island and passes (Definitely not merfolk), I draw lantern, play springs and lantern. Academy on top, dispel on opponent's. Turn 3, no land drop and he passes, I play academy and pass, no bridge cause he had mana open. Turn 4 he plays serum which I let him draw to trick him into tapping a land, gets a deciever (Ah twin!), hes got 1 mana open, I draw Stirrings, play bridge and by now I've already won, I just didn't know it yet. After that I kept him off his fourth land long enough to get a rage quit while trying to find a discard spell for any cryptic he might have, which he didn't, though I already had a second bridge in hand in case he did.
End game pic attached.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Yeah, I run three Surgical Extraction in my maindeck. I'm liking them because they can neuter combo decks, extract answers to Bridge, reduce threats overall, and cause a shuffle effect in an emergency.
I prefer Mishra's Bauble over Lens of Clarity. I can use it on an opponent, it lets me dig through the deck faster, and can act as Lantern 5-8 when I have Academy Ruins out.
I have dropped Faithless Looting for the three Extractions and a fourth Bridge. I haven't gotten to test too much with it, but it's something that I plan on testing for a bit, and I'm of the opinion that it'll prove to be correct. I do still run a full playset of Ancient Stirrings. They're just so amazingly good.
Lantern Control
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Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
As far as running Pyxis, I honestly don't see the need. I have a few (between 2-3) Surgical Extraction maindeck, and 4 Extirpates in the side for decks that rely heavily on the graveyard. Other than very specific flashback cards (Ancient Grudge) or something like Emrakul, I don't see any reason to be running Pyxis. Extraction takes care of Emrakul just fine and Extirpate takes care of Ancient Grudge, while having the upside of being generally useful as well. With so much discard, T1 Duress or Thoughtseize into Surgical Extraction can just win you the game in a few matchups (Splinter Twin, Tron, Scapeshift, Amulet Bloom).
I'm one of those not running Pithing Needle maindeck. I still have it in my side, but I'm moving farther and farther from it. It's just not reliable enough. It stops some things that aren't handled by Abrupt Decay like above 3 cost planeswalkers, but in general it's weak to their sideboard cards for you and it's not proactive enough. I'm also finding that it's just not that good against the things that I'm actually worried about in this deck. Ex: One thing I used to like it for was against Affinity, needling Cranial Plating. However, most Affinity lists are running Ancient Grudge, which leaves Ancient Grudge on Pithing Needle, flashback on Ensnaring Bridge, equip plating, win. That sort of interaction, where I was just sitting there with "End of turn I can get it back, but I'm dead this turn anyways" (same reason I'm considering Welding Jar again), was happening way too frequently against all the decks. I'd much rather just Abrupt Decay their Cranial Plating and be done with it. There's very few bases that aren't covered by a heavy discard package + AD + extraction effects for me.
Hope that helps un-baffle you!
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The reason why I specifically dislike Pyxis is it doesn't work with academy ruins. Every day I'm getting more and more convinced that Academy Ruins is one of the best non-lock cards in the deck and anything that doesn't work with it should not be in the deck. Pyxis and elixer of immortality seem like good choices but fight Academy Ruins.
This is a fair point. Academy Ruins is definitely one of our most useful cards and is responsible for keeping us in the game through lots of hardship. The arguments against Pyxis seem pretty sound, but without main deck extraction effects I am still too scared to cut them entirely. I will go down to 1 and see if not having consistent access to it ever hurts me.
Vs UR Control, I got lantern, 4 millers and bridge, opponent has snapcaster on field. I had already extracted the other snaps, I'm down to 13 life, opponent has jace architect, Cryptic, Deprive, Bolt and electrolize on hand with other dead cards, I have a stirrings. He bolts me and taps for jace architect and does -2, keeps a bolt, I'm down to 10, I fix me a thoughtseize to draw and take out cryptic, i'm at 8 now, on his next turn he goes -2 on jace again and sacs it, keeps another bolt, my opponent now has 2 bolts and electrolize in hand with 4 islands and 2 steam vents untapped, I still have a stirrings in hand and 5 lands on field. Heres the tricky part. He taps vents to bolt me, then taps vents and 2 islands to electrolize me keeping 2 islands open for deprive, I fix me a 6th land for my draw, bait his deprive with stirrings, he falls for it, I tap my other 5 lands into codex, get surgical and pay 2 life to extract bolt off his hand stabilizing at 1 life. That move just blew my mind.
I'm still running a 1of pyxis main and considering going back to a 2/2 split with bells. Simply because it doesn't hurt and I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It does deal with emmy and whatnot just as good as surgical, but its main purpose is to deal with flashback cards, specially instants. Grudge being public enemy #1. Pyxis straight up exiles grudge while bell first sends it to the grave and then if your opponent is tapped out on G you must have a surgical on hand ready to go. I used to think pyxis was anti-ruins but honestly thats a non issue to me, Codex, Bridge, Bell and the 1 or 2of bullets are mainly what you don't want to be exiling and thats on average 16 out of 60 cards and its not common to only have pyxis as your only miller. The chances of pyxis screwing me are low enough for me to run it because when its useful the rewards are greater.
I'm not sold on the needle argument though, I would run decay alongside needle, but not decay instead of needle. I would run decay in a heavy aggro meta and probably alongside needle. I feel Needle and G.Blast deal with a wider range of threats than Decay and G.Blast. Specifically thinking of tron, but then theres things like the new kid on the block Tasigur which gets spells back from the grave. With S.Ooze on field a good pilot will keep their graves nearly empty of dead targets for tasigur. I've seen it happen
EDIT: I was at 13, not 11. Forgot the -2 from thoughtseize. Fixed the numbers.
EDIT 2: It keeps happening. On grindy games, tapping 5 into codex for surgical to extract their last hope is awesome and unexpected.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Vs. Abzan
Really slow start as I mulled to 6 and kept a 3 lantern hand, had to keep a softlock with ruins+lanterns using it mostly to shuffle my library until I finally got a bell. But by then the opponent managed to drop tasigur with Ooze in play and things got scary as my opponent used tasigur and got pulse into grave, I gave him aven mindsensor and then he emptied his grave of all spells and creatures less pulse with ooze. I had to think a bit and in the end I won because he hit a path with tasigur before I drew a surgical for pulse and he left.
Special note on the needle vs decay debate: My opponent got to draw all 4 lilianas. A single needle stopped them all, decay would have only gotten rid of 1.
Also, the sunbeam that shows at the end, I had just put it there along with a 1of pyrite spellbomb. I like to play with fringe cards when I play at work since I can only do 1 game matches at work.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6pdq6i436l9j50l/Abzan (13:3:15)?dl=0
Download and save it in: Library > application support > Cockatrice > Replays. Then watch in cockatrice.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Surgical Extraction is still the bee's knees, but the fact that at some points it was a do nothing card as well as it sometimes not doing enough on a Snapcaster Mage stack made me regulate it to Sideboard. God its good when it's good, but I don't fear grave decks enough to run two main board kill cards if the one I'm running is tutorable with my Mainboard Trinket Mages.
Were I not running Trinket Mages, I would run Surgicals. At least 2-3 of them.
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
Current Top Control Decklist
Cockatrice: Spage
With Mishra's Bauble and Faithless Looting in the deck it seems like a no brainer to put delve cards in it. Have anyone tested Murderous Cut or Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Other possible delve card is Set Adrift. In this deck it can easily be "put target nonland permanent in the grave". Also, It seems very expensive, but it can be a HUGE brickwall to put a Shambling Attendants.
What do you guys use to deal with Siege Rhino or Tasigur, the Golden Fang ? It seems like a very problematic cards. Once they hit the battlefield i feel like the only out in most of the builds i see here is Ensnaring Bridge. Is a T4 card really too slow against the top control match? Taisigur can be played early and it really mess the game with his activated ability, although you can pithing needle him i would really like to know what good removal can be used on them. Also, what is like the game against Junk?
I personally haven't tested them, mostly because at the point where they are useful the deck's lock should already be set up. Tasigur could be good, but only for his effect. The body does nothing for us because we are consistently not wanting to attack. The deck evolved around locking our opponent out of answers for bridge and protecting bridge. Sans bridge, we can still lock, but it's a bit more difficult due to the amounts of 1 for 1s we pack in our deck + the card disadvantage we initially take to set up the lock in the first place.
So why no Mass removal then? Mostly because creature based decks now a days have evolved around Mass removal. Good players can play around it, creatures like Kitchen Finks come back, and then some creatures like Primeval Titan don't even care if they hit, they just want to attack.
Set adrift could work only if it were instant, and really only to deal with cards like Stony Silence or Chalice of the Void. We are a reactive deck, and instant spells are very key to the deck(as well as the fun of the deck imo)
An enemy Tasigur could be an issue depending on what is in the opponents yard. I usually can mill enough that I can continue to give him crappy cards until I Pithing Needle him. An early Tasigur is no worse than a Tarmogoyf damage wise, so its not like his attack is hurting us any more than a deck pre-tasigur would.
Siege Rhino hurts, but only if they can flicker him a great bunch of times. Bridge stops him. Without bridge this deck can and has lost to an attacking Thalia. 2 damage a turn. What it comes down to again is not the Rhino or any other creature but the bridge removal. Those colors love those destroy effects, so we run Spellskites, Boros Charm, Welding Jar, Swan Song, and possibly Slobad, etc to stop those destroy effects. Opening hand + 2 cards is usually what the other deck gets to kill us with for removal. We are filtering our deck for the best cards while filtering their deck for the useless cards, meaning they should never draw Artifact removal, while we consistently draw our counters to their removals.
Its like how in Chess, generally the Piece putting your King in check isnt the actual issue, its just the killing blow. The issue is the pieces setting up and supporting that Kill piece. Give that Kill piece no support, and it can't kill. You can't win the game with one piece.
Hopefully this helps.
Edit: (Also this is why the Tron match up sucks sooo much. They can kill with one piece, it don't care about our filtering, and can possibly win without attacking.)
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
Current Top Control Decklist
Cockatrice: Spage
First of all i would like to apologize if i make too many english errors. English is not my main language. Sorry about that.
So, today i played in our weekly saturday modern tournament with the deck. We had around 16 people attending. Here is my list
4 Faithless Looting
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Spellskite
3 Mishra's Bauble
2 Beast Within
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
2 Ghoulcaller's Bell
Lands (20):
4 Mox Opal
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Pyroclasm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Beast Within
1 Torpor Orb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Rest in Peace
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
On a note. I should've use 2 Academy Ruins instead of 2 darksteel citadel. A guy is with my cards didn't showed up so i had to play with what i had.
I went 3-0 and drawed in the final to end in first with my friend so we both split the prize. The championship only played the swiss and the prize was given by standings.
Round 1:
Merfolk 2-0
This match was really easy. I belive its a consensus that the deck have a great advantage in this match-up
Game 1:
I couldn't assemble the lock, but i droped a early bridge and two spellskites before he conceded. He made an interesting play when i had one card in hand. He vapor snaged my spellskite, attacked with Cursecatcher and Mutavault and after he declared attackers he vialed in a lord. He took a good 5 chunk of me. But after i emptied my hand again the bridge did its work. After around some 8 turns without me finding lantern he conceded. I belive he didn't had a answer main deck to spellskite + bridge
Sideboard:
Out
-1 Nihil
-2 Beast Within
-1 Bauble
In
+4 Pyroclasm
I belive i should've put pithing needle out instead of the bauble. But i just forgot about the maindeck needle and used it to name mutavault when i drew it.
Game 2:
This game i assembled the lantern with a codex around turn 3. He put no pressure in the table trying to be a little more reactive, maybe really afraid of a bridge. Because of this i had all the time in the world. After he figured what was going on he started to tap out letting one mana open probably for Spell Snare or Spell Pierce. I sandbagged a mox, dropped it with my land drop and played a bridge with two mana to pay the pierce. He chuckled and said "Well, what can i do now?" and i replied "You can have a hurkyl's recall from your opening". He showed his hand and asked if i had i wincon so i pointed to codex shredder and he scooped.
Round 2:
Tooth and Nail 2-0
This deck is a little unknown, but i already knew this deck because i started to build it. Im a sucker for rougue decks. Here is a list that took 1st place in SCG invitational
1 Acidic Slime
4 Arbor Elf
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Eternal Witness
4 Voyaging Satyr
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands (22)
22 Forest
Spells (20)
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Harmonize
3 Plow Under
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
2 Defense Grid
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spellskite
2 Thragtusk
2 Krosan Grip
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Creeping Corrosion
The list from the guy i was playing with was a little different in the lands. And i belive it had no Behemoth. But instead it had Huntmaster of The Fells, Scavenging Ooze and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Game 1:
This was the most intense game in the whole tournament. There were times when i had three bridges in play and he sunddenly started chaining primal commands and eternal witness. But lets go from the start. The deck tries to ramp degenerated ammounts of mana with Voyaging Satyr and Arbor elf in conjunction with utopia sprawl and overgrowth. If he get 9 mana and entwine tooth and nail he get Emrakul with Xenagod and attack with a 30/30 flying eldrazi ftw.
I won the die roll and this was a few moments latter my salvation. At the start of the game he started with arbor elf t1 and overgrowth t2. T3 he would have 7 mana availabe to him. Luckly i had Beast within maindeck so i blew his forest in his upkeep. I already had the whole lock active with three bridges in play (i knew he wasn't using black so no Maelstrom Pulse. I saw a primal command on top and milled instead of exiling with pyxis. I totally forgot he had witness in the deck. That was when he started chaining those. He added 16 to his mana pool put a bridge on top of the deck, got another witness, played the witness got the command back and put other bridge on top of my deck. I even had spellskite, but Command says noncreature. That was when he made a mistake. Instead of making me shuffle my deck he took another witness. I think he overlook this mode.
After some moments more of grinding he had the chance of putting his hand in a Tooth and nail. I can't remember how. Maybe with the last witness he had in hand. He got a Acidic Slime and Huntmaster. This huntmaster started to do some good work on me until i could get a Galvanic Blast. It took did around to 8 damage all by himself. After all this he conceded.
Sideboard:
Out
-3 Bauble
-1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
-1 Nihil Spellbomb
-2 Looting
-1 Ancient Stirrings
In
+4 Pyroclasm
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Beast Within
+1 Surgical Extraction
This sideboard was a little sketchy. I didn't knew what i wanted more between Stirrings and Loot so i took a split between them. Maybe i should've keep the Nihil spellbomb, but i belive the extraction would be way better taking of all the commands or all the tooth n nails.
Game 2:
If game 1 was the most intense this was the most easy game. He mulliganed to 5 and kept a hand with arbor elf, nykthos and stomping grounds. I managed to put darksteel citadel, mox, lantern and a needle on T1 for his elf. A few turns after i dropped a bridge. A little after heAncient Grudge my needle (oh how i hate this card). I had Beast within so i thouhgt and let he destroy the needle. He activated the elf to untap the land and in response i destroyed his land. After this he kept missing his land drops for a few turns what gave me the time to assemble the lock and deprive him from his lands.
Round 3:
Zoo 2-1
This guy is the only Zoo player of the whole LGS and i was reeeeeally afraid of this match because of the pyroclasm instead of Firespout. I will come better suited next time with a split. Maybe even Anger of Gods.
Game 1:
This game he went really balls to the walls. T1 land Goblin Guide. T2 Goblin Guide. T3 Goblin Guide. Fortunatelly i had a t2 spellskite so i could hold off this one, but he still put me to 6 i think. Also he played only one land. I assembled the lock and deprived him of lands and from lightning bolts. I even named Ghor-Clan Rampager with pithing needle for the lulz. After some time he conceded.
Sideboard
Out
-3 Bauble
-1 Nihil Spellbomb
-1 Pithing Needle
-2 Beast Within
-1 Faithless Looting
In
+4 Pyroclasm
+4 Leyline
Looting really underperformed in the games. Maybe i was just overseeing and forgeting to flashback it. Maybe in a shell with more delve cards like murderous cuts or taisigur. I took it out instead of Ancient Stirrings (this card guys. MVP). Maybe it was a mistake to put pyroclasm against zoo, but he used a playset of goblin guide, Burning-Tree Emissary and Experiment One. I belive it could be better than the stuff i took off
Game 2:
This one i started with a leyline and two pyroclasms in hand (thank god it was two). He played t1 Kird Ape and t2 Wild Nacatl. T3 he attacked with his dudes and played a experiment one. I ramped with mox opal and did a 3 for 2. I managed to put a Bridge and a Sunbeam Spellbomb in play, but he used Destructive Revelry on my bridge and kept playing more 1/1 experiment ones. After some time he finished me off.
Game 3:
This one was a copy of game 1. He tried to go with a one lander. And i managed to lock him off the game. Nothing much to be said about this. It was the last table so everyone on the LGS was watching and saying all the stuff everyone who plays with decks like those will eventually hear. But luckly some of the guys at the LGS thought this deck was rad and got impressed with it. Eventually i managed to mill him off the game.
An ocorrrence happened during this game. In the draw-go part of the game i kept playing my lands and artifacts. There was one point that i forgot to put my moxes in the grave because of the legendary rule. Someone pointed out and it was really awkward, specially since im a LVL1 judge. Luckly it didnt mattered in the game and the guys from the LGS are somewhat close and would not question my integrity.
Match 4:
I drew with a friend of mine. He was playing UWR and i belive i was favored in the match, but since he was my friend and asked to draw i did not refused. I got a little enerved with him because the split would let to 0.25 booster to someone, so he said "We can talk latter about who will get the rest". Since i was still a little shaken by my oversight with the moxes and the legend rule i was a little harsh on him. I said that he could not propose something like this and that he could get in trouble for saying things like those. But i still accepted the draw.
Overperforming cards:
-Beast Within: Nothing new to be said about something that get rid of anything in the game and have a pro that gets irrelevant with a bridge in play. This card always felt good in my grip.
-Ancient Stirrings: I really overcommited the deck with tons of digging and i did not regret this. When i had the idea about playing the deck i thought the deck would be way too inconsistent, but this card is way too good in the deck. I play with it in Bloom Titan also, and the ammount i felt the power of it in Top Control is waaaaay too absurd. I really liked this card.
-Ensnaring Bridge: Everynight from now i will make a prayer that my bridges will keep me away from all the evil in the world. I dont even know why there are builds of the deck with only 3 bridges.
Underperforming cards:
-Mishra Bauble: To tell the truth the card wasn't nor bad nor good. It cantriped, served as a hand emptier and helped the mox. But it didnt impressed me at all
-Faithless Loothing: I think it was a good call to put it in the deck to improve consistency. I was really afraid i would be left with broken pieces of the deck so i think this helped, but still didn't impressed me. Maybe i should've played the deck with this more in mind. In some games i top decked it and felt dumb for putting all my lands in play. But still had to empty the hand for the bridge. Its a little clunky.
Thoughts about the deck
The deck overperformed. I thought about playing it just for fun and would never think it could take 3 matchs in a row. In the long game the deck looked unbeatable. I felt that the deck NEEDS Academy Ruins. I think i could have won the second game against zoo if i had a ruins in play. And the card seems way too strong against counterspells. I will get two for the next times i play the deck. I also played the deck suboptmally. There were many turns when i didnt milled myself forgetting that i had codex shredder to get my cards back.
I also felt that discard spells would make huge difference. Maybe my build didn't supported it, but in a little different version some number of thoughtseizes, duress and IoK could make a huge difference.
Thanks a lot for everyone who contributed with the deck. I will definetly play more with it. Be on the watch for more reports.
With Faithless Looting, something that I tend to do is dump any other Faithless Lootings that I've drawn, along with multiple mill pieces that I don't immediately need. I have the 2 Academy Ruins, though, so I understand why you may not have done this. I also dump Gitaxian Probe and Mishra's Baubles for Lootings in the early game quite often. Self-milling Faithless Looting almost feels broken.
I haven't tried Beast Within, but I also don't have Mox Opals due to budget, so I'm not sure if my manabase can support those.
It is awesome to see the deck do well! Thanks for the list and tournament report!
EDIT: In other news, I got to playtest against UR Delver today, using my updated list.
Game 1, I misplay. I have two Bridges in hand, and I know he doesn't have the counter for either of them because I viewed his hand with Gitaxian Probe and drew out the Spell Pierce with my Lantern of Insight (He saw the lock and wanted nothing of it). I draw three Faithless Looting, and end up losing with two Bridges and a Looting in hand. My mistake was that, for my first Looting, I discarded a land and a Looting rather than my extra Bridge and a Looting. I was worried about the 1-land per turn restriction causing lands to sit in my hand and making it so bridge didn't work, but instead I die with a Bridge in hand.
Games 2 and 3 I Duress away his counters and have the lock with Bridge super fast, just shutting him down completely. Pithing Needle was great, helping me manascrew him by naming his fetch that I saw on top as well as shutting off his Grim Lavamancers. He was super pissed, he'd spent a rather large amount of money on his foil Delver of Secrets that sat on the board and not attacking
So, while it's not a whole lot of new information, it was extremely fun. Also, current list:
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Glimmervoid
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Academy Ruins
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
4 Ghoulcaller's Bell
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pithing Needle
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Duress
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Faithless Looting
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Nature's Claim
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Dragon's Claw
4 Pyroclasm
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Hey thnkr, why you dont use a split of pyxis and ghoulcaller? Dont you get worried about Ancient Grudge? You have any other answer to it or is just something you try to live with it?
For Bloom Titan, have you considered Ghost Quarter? It's great for that matchup, and pretty good for the Infect and Affinity matchup, too.
EDIT: Also, if you're running Surgical Extraction, Ghost Quarter does amazing things for the Scapeshift and Tron matchup as well.
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Altar seems like a great way to get extra value from all your permanents, possibly speeding up the game, while Ashiok not only speeds up the game, but lets you grab dudes in case of emergency bridge breaking? I feel like this is a deck that Ashiok can reasonably ult in as well.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
As for Ashiok, the Planeswalker of choice for most people running Top Control is Tezzeret. He costs one more than Ashiok, but can be used immediately to tutor with his +1 ability (essentially a free Ancient Stirrings), and threatens to ultimate straight away. Some have tried Liliana as well, and though it's hard to compare Liliana and Ashiok directly in this deck (Liliana supplements the lock well, can edict in a pinch, and her ultimate is devastating), I'd say that Liliana is the better option if you want a 3-mana Planeswalker in this style of deck.
Over the past month or so I've started playing Magic again after a 6-month break, and I've been experimenting with Top Control. When I'm not feeling quite so lazy (and actually finish it off) I'll post the list I'm running and how it's performing.
I do need help testing against Burn, if anyone is up for it some time. I'm usually in the #mtgsalvation IRC channel, so that's the best place to find me other than posting in here. And, although I think it's already a good matchup, I want to test against Abzan to get a good feel for that matchup.
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan