After several attempts at a competitive Ninja deck in casual, I finally walked away convinced the mechanic is definitely flavorful, but ultimately just too slow and 'mana-sinky'..and that's with access to cardpool from all formats, not just Modern. I tried :symu:, :symb:, and :symub:, which was generally the best performer.
I like your primer and I'm halfway tempted to try it again.. We definitely do have new cards that empower Ninjas since Kamigawa era, so how's your testing going?
This is the one I was referring to. Is this the list you are currently running? If so I'm going to give it a go on MTGO and see how it does. So far I've been tooling around with a budget list and it's been a blast. Once I get the remaining cards, I'm going to try to run it in a daily and maybe some two man queues to see how it stacks up.
The sig and avatar are my first attempts photochopping, maybe I should resize them a bit.
For getting that last push of damage what about Hatred?
That's right, I'm currently running this list. At the moment I can't think of any ways to improve the deck further, it's seems any changes I make will just result in taking a step backward.
I'll appreciate it if you can try the deck in MTGO as I'm unable to test my Ninjas in the correct modern environment. My playtest so far includes legacy/rogue modern decks and Tier one Zoo,Elves and RDW which is insufficient.
Your Ninja signature is amazing....I could do with it somewhere in my opening post...:D
Hatred is not legal in Modern, I trying searching for a card similar to it but there isn't any in modern BU currrently.
I'm a standard player looking into modern. From what I see with the ninja's I was wondering if Invisible Stalker would have a home here seeing has he is a 1U Hexproof/Unblockable by himself and should beable to enable the ninjutsu. Also just from the list quoted by shinob1 I am wondering about the lack of card draw or even a small counterspell suite seeing as we have rather controlling colors here, or am I off base?
Edit...Never mind didn't see familiar's ruse the first time around. Still curious about card draw.
Enabling the Ninjutsu is not good enough as opponent can still use one of the many instant removal spells on the Ninjas after the Ninjutsu. Thus I'm running the hand discard for their removal spells. Also it is expensive at 1U, as we can only attack on the third turn.
There is no direct CA, the 'virtual' card advantage comes in the form of NoDH, Higure, recycling Spellstutter with Ninjutsu etc.
Familiar's Ruse is very good here, in most decks it is a drawback but for us it actually creates CA - returning the likes of Spellstutter/Clique/Ninjas.
After several attempts at a competitive Ninja deck in casual, I finally walked away convinced the mechanic is definitely flavorful, but ultimately just too slow and 'mana-sinky'..and that's with access to cardpool from all formats, not just Modern. I tried :symu:, :symb:, and :symub:, which was generally the best performer.
I like your primer and I'm halfway tempted to try it again.. We definitely do have new cards that empower Ninjas since Kamigawa era, so how's your testing going?
I can understand why you left Ninjas, many a times i was exasperated with the Ninja experience because after a few successful hits my opponent was still sitting at more than 10 life. This deck is primarily a early control/mid range aggro deck with Higure and Clique as the main source of damage. However the deck will fold very easily if it fails to do some early control or fail to gain any meaningful advantage with Ninjutsu.
A few times i lost very easily when Ninjutsu failed to kick off and I only had a few 1/1 faeries holding the fort. All in all, the deck is still extremely fun to play with although there are games when I lose without doing anything.
Testing wise...in all honesty I tend to have a unfavourable winning percentage :embarrass:...however the deck has the tendency to win BIG.
It's not the flashiest of cards in the way a lot of people are looking at modern, but Gitaxian Probe should be an MVP spell in a Ninja deck. It gives you the info on your opponents hand to let you know which Ninja is best suited for the situation and it replaces itself in your hand.
Modern isn't very inviting to players that want to play U. It shows with Faerie decks forcing themselves to play Tarmogoyf because it gives them the exact finisher they are in need of, just like Ninjas is in need of. Not to mention that the interaction between Goyf and Ninjutsu can provide exponential CA. Path to Exile is slung at attacking Goyfs so much and Ninjutsu is protection from that. So, forcing your opponent to start playing their G2/G3 Paths on your Upkeep/MP1 gives you info and them less removal.
I have been doing some testing with snapcaster as a 3 of and he's been amazing so far. The route I am taking while I gather up the cards for the U/B list is mono blue. Being able to bring back bounce spells, (I've been testing with Into the Roil), along with counters, etc, has been very relevant.
I've also put in Signal Pest and that card has been doing well for me. It makes your ninja's do significantly more damage and it has evasion. I find myself using my Ninjutsu on Signal Pest and then casting him on my second main phase. The primer over in Legacy runs him in their FaeNinjaStill list and again, I have been loving him so far.
I've also been experimenting with a U/W list. I am running Gitaxian Probe in place of discard spells and the splash so far has been x2 Dawn Charm and x3 Oblivion Ring. Might be a janky idea, but I've had some moderate success with it.
I think overall that snapcaster and signal pest should see some additional testing.
Snapcaster is a amazing card but Ninjas are already so mana-intensive enough therefore I'm not sure how he fits here.
Moreover Snapcaster does not have evasion, after flashing him in and flashbacking something useful, what can we do with him that is in synergy with the rest of the deck?
I still feel Spellstutter Sprite is a better choice with it's countering abilities and evasion.
Interesting aggro deck using control/bounce on opponents creatures rather than removing them. Spell pierce is a good spell to stop opponents's removals. The deck looks really optimal and I don't really know how to improve it further. I might suggest Spellstutter Sprite to replace Remand.
Do you need to maindeck disrupting shoal ? Is that a counter for board wipes such as Wrath of God etc? If the deck empty it's hand very quickly I'm not sure if you have any cards to pitch to shoal. Maybe Familiar Ruse will be useful here since you have no short of low casting cost creatures to put into play. Otherwise Stoic Rebuttal could be an alternative especially seeing the deck has 8 artifact creatures.
It's not the flashiest of cards in the way a lot of people are looking at modern, but Gitaxian Probe should be an MVP spell in a Ninja deck. It gives you the info on your opponents hand to let you know which Ninja is best suited for the situation and it replaces itself in your hand.
For mono-blue, Gitaxian Probe is definitely a good choice. For UB, with hand disruption available we do not really need probe.
Modern isn't very inviting to players that want to play U. It shows with Faerie decks forcing themselves to play Tarmogoyf because it gives them the exact finisher they are in need of, just like Ninjas is in need of. Not to mention that the interaction between Goyf and Ninjutsu can provide exponential CA. Path to Exile is slung at attacking Goyfs so much and Ninjutsu is protection from that. So, forcing your opponent to start playing their G2/G3 Paths on your Upkeep/MP1 gives you info and them less removal.
Agree, at the moment U is not Modern's favourite color. But I don't understand what you mean by Ninjutsu having protection from Path To Exile. PtE can be cast anytime as and when with regards Goyf or Ninjas.
I have been doing some testing with snapcaster as a 3 of and he's been amazing so far. The route I am taking while I gather up the cards for the U/B list is mono blue. Being able to bring back bounce spells, (I've been testing with Into the Roil), along with counters, etc, has been very relevant.
Are you able to show me your decklists with Snapcaster? As a mono-blue Ninja deck, Snapcaster with Spell snare/spell pierce/into the roil might be pure nasty but for UB it seems to be asking too much to stuff so many ninjas/mages/ninjas enablers in the same deck.
I've also put in Signal Pest and that card has been doing well for me. It makes your ninja's do significantly more damage and it has evasion. I find myself using my Ninjutsu on Signal Pest and then casting him on my second main phase. The primer over in Legacy runs him in their FaeNinjaStill list and again, I have been loving him so far.
I've also been experimenting with a U/W list. I am running Gitaxian Probe in place of discard spells and the splash so far has been x2 Dawn Charm and x3 Oblivion Ring. Might be a janky idea, but I've had some moderate success with it.
I think overall that snapcaster and signal pest should see some additional testing.
Looking at the list I'm thinking Distortion Strike & Probe might be the weak links. Perhaps they could be reduced or removed for more counters? I'm also wondering if Cryptic Command should have a home in here somewhere.
Looking at the list I'm thinking Distortion Strike & Probe might be the weak links. Perhaps they could be reduced or removed for more counters? I'm also wondering if Cryptic Command should have a home in here somewhere.
I'm thinking Spell Pierce might be good. Your decklist is very neat and tidy, but it doesnt offer the protection of a turn 2/3 successful Ninja hit. Gitaxian Probe is good as we can see our opponent hand before deciding how we want to implement our Ninja tricks but still it doesnt provide us with any answers. What if we see something unsavoury there? Spell Pierce could be useful here. Spell pierce can ensure successful Ninjutsu for turn 2 Mistblade Shinobi or turn 3 NoDH.
As a result I might cut out Distortion strike for Spell Pierce. I'm also quite tempted to replace one of the SoFI for 1x Higure.
Cryptic Command tapping all opponents creatures so Ninjas could beat through? Sounds Godly! Too bad I don't know what else I can cut out for command. IMO i feel it is SoFI or Higure or Cyptic Command vying for the same slot.
All in all nice Mono-blue list here, I intended to make a competitive Mono-blue list here but I guess you beat me to it :rolleyes:. If the list works I'll add it into the primer (with credits to you of course for coming up with the list ;))
Also, thanks for the PM. The signature is SOOOOO awesome!!! Appreciate your kind gesture, will send you a reply shortly. NINJAS FTW!!!!!
Furthermore Vines of Vastwood offer protection against your opponent doing a 2 for 1 move on your enchantment Auras as you can cast it in response to an opponent spell on the creature your Aura is targetting. You certainty need more ways to protect your creatures since you don't run counterspells or hand discard and only have 4x Veil of secrecy for shroud.
This is a slightly edited version of your deck, it does have a very nice and smooth offensive plan, however what about defense? Other than Mistblade shinobi (bouncing opposing creatures every turn) the deck doesnt seem to be able to hold off an enemy creatures onslaught unless your core strategy is to race your opponent.
Been doing some more testing (and trading), and I have been able to improve my list quite a bit. I have the cliques now and I am testing with 2 cryptic commands in the sword spot. I am really liking them and snapping them back with snapcaster has been relevant a couple of games.
I also ditched the strikes for 3 Spell Pierce and upped the thopter to make it a 4 of since it's the nuts when you draw it in your opening hand.
So far my worse matches tend to be fast aggro, but I haven't developed a board yet, so I've just been testing game ones. Once I get the mutavaults, I'm going to start heading in to the tourney practice room and build up a sideboard to do some additional testing.
I had a buddy let me borrow a sword and I used a whispercloak as a place holder for the second sword. I found them to leave me in a awkward position, because I didn't want to commit the mana to casting them without counter back up. I haven't played with swords before, so I may be doing it wrong, but I never felt like having a sword in hand was going to catch me up or win a game. I have however had it used against me, and I can say feast and famine can be a beating.
However the cryptics seem more natural because we can do so much with that spell. Counters, tapping creatures and even returning a ninja to our hand, (or something to our opponent's hand) seems to be really good. I'd like to hear your thoughts though on the sword package as I feel that I may not be playing them right and they deserve more testing in the mono blue list.
Also snapcaster with familar's ruse is nuts. Also familar's ruse with ninjas is awesome. I'm loving that counter spell and rarely have I been in a situation where I could not use it because I didn't have a creature.
Overall I'm having a blast playing with ninjas, which is awesome. Once I can round up the rest of the cards I need, I'll be able to put the lists through some legitimate matches against the better decks. If all goes well, I'll enter in to some 2 man queues or maybe a daily event and write up a tournament/match up report.
Whispersilk Cloak is something which i feel is quite clumsy - although it is tailor-made for Ninjas, it costs as much as a Sword! It might be too slow and late by the time we equip on a Ninja which is why I have been resisting the temptation to try it. Partly because I was already running 4x Distortion strike therefore I could do without it.
Ornithopter is nuts! Having one on the opening hand with a Ninja almost certainly ensure I'll be able to Ninjutsu early.
Because I'm running plenty of flyers in Ornithopters, Spellsutter, Clique and random faeries, the SoFF will always take over a stalled board. However it is a Sword that helps us to win over a stalemate, not one that can turn a losing game around. SoFF is usually too late too little when opponent has already established the board advantage. IMO SoFI might be better here in making a comeback. I feel you should keep at least one mainboard.
On the Cryptics, I'll try them somehow, however I'll likely take out my swords in order to make space for them.
Familar's Ruse is really massive here. To other decks it has a drawback but for us most of the time I'm more than happy to return my creatures to my hand.
However I noticed you only run 20 lands, would that be enough? I'll run at least 22 lands.
Glad to know you have having lots of fun with Ninjas, I'm enjoying myself tremendously playing them too, looking forward to some match reports on your Ninjas deck!
So far I think 20 lands is the number, considering the cantrips and NoDH drawing us cards. I have had plenty of games where I am stuck on 2 and plenty of games where I'm flooded. I find 4 lands to be the sweet spot. 22 or even 21 might be better here and I've considered adjusting the land count.
One thing I'm running in to that I cannot deal with is Goyf. He's such a beating. This is where I imagine running black would come in to play, as you could remove him with discard or send a doom blade in his direction. With mono blue, if I don't have the right tempo, he'll get on board if I cannot counter or if I don't have any bounce available.
The one thing I'm thinking of trying is using Spell Snare. Maybe if not in the main deck, in the sideboard, I could bring it in to deal with Goyf and or Bob.
I've been testing with 1 sword maindeck and 2 cryptics. I am warming up to the sword. The sword I have been using is Sword of Body and Mind. The extra damage is nice and for that equipment, the discard and wolf token have been decent. I have had some plays where I cast Familar's Ruse and bounce the token so I can keep my flyers on the board.
My theory crafting is leading me to believe that SoFF would be our best choice, since we could equip and untap or lands after an attack, leaving up mana for counter magic. Has that been your experience with using it in the UB version?
On the topic of Goyf, I think he could be our missing finisher. Fae has been splashing for him and it seems like he's really worth it. Outside of obvious budget issues, do you think a green splash just for him is worth it?
Goyf is one tough-a** beater. I used Mistblade Shinobi to bounce him a few times but he could only delay the inevitable as Goyf during late games just need to hit a couple of times to totally finish me off. I can only think of Throat Slitter or maindeck creature removals but you will need to splash B for this. Honestly I thought about the Goyf problem and the ways I deal with him currently in my deck is:
But still my opponents are always able to sneak in a few goyfs...
Spell Snare can be an option too as many black removals are also 2cc so we can use it not only against Goyf but to protect our own creatures as well. Perhaps you might want to playtest between Spell Pierce and Spell Snare in the mainboard. We should have space in the sideboard for them though.
I haven't tested on Sword of Body and Mind, in fact I'm quite afraid of milling my opponent in this Snapcaster era :rolleyes:. Sword of Feast and Famine would be better here since it can block Goyf/pro B removals. So far for me SoFF usually go online during late game when I already have plenty of mana so the untap all mana didn't really benefit me greatly. I usually do not cast it early as I would be busy keeping mana free and Ninjutsuing. Usually I cast it when I have around 5-6 lands. I also only play a single piece so I don't really draw it often. It is not really a card I like to see in my opening hand.
How is the 2 cryptics working for you? Are you able to cast them effectively or are they too clunky due to it's mana cost? I'm seriously thinking of slotting 2 of them into my deck to replace my Go for the throat.
I'm not into playing Goyf at all as he is a bad Ninjutsu target...But I may change my mind when I start brainstorming a GU Ninjas deck build around Birds of Paradise and Erayo.
So far I've been having good success with the Cryptics. They have won me a couple of games and casting them hasn't been an issue. I should note however, that being mono blue and not having mutavaults makes it easier for me to use, since once I hit four lands I'm golden. I also tend to use them a bit later in the game, to ambush my opponent by tapping their creatures and bouncing something at the end of their turn to swing in for lethal or close to it.
Yesterday I picked up some fetches and more shock lands, so I have the mana base now to test the UB version. I also picked up two SoFI on the cheap. The games I played with them, they were super stars. The card draw was nice and that 2 extra damage was as well. Being able to send it to my opponents dome, or a pesky creature was a nice bit of reach. I did however put the cryptics in the sideboard. I'm going to do some more testing with the swords maindeck vs. cryptics to see which I like better. I'm wondering if a split of 1 each would be good? I'd like to be greedy and find a way to play 2 swords and 2 cryptics, but I'm not sure if that's reasonable.
Also the more I play test the more I'm wondering what advantage mono-blue would have, outside of being easier on the budget. At least being able to have a black splash available for removal seems really good. Thoughtseize at a miminum could take the place of probe.
I also bumped my land count up 1 to make it 21. I had a few too many games where I was stuck on 2 lands or missed my second land drop because I took a greedy 1 lander. I found that mulliganing a 1 land hand usually left me something much worse. Could be bad luck or the MTGO shuffler, but it seems like I either had a 1 land nut draw that was a crapshoot or a 6 card hand with 4 lands.
I'm going to also rotate spell snares in main deck to see how I like them. I've been following various Fae based lists, and LSV ran spell snare md in his Next level Fae deck. It does hit a lot of cards and I think deserves a spot in the 75.
Little on budget for the lands, but this is working quite well somehow.
Unlike anothers Ramp decks, here you don't need to go crazy ramping, just the exact amount to make the game faster and reliable.
Hey everybody, new here, but I have always loved ninjas (especially Ink-Eyes and Higure).
This is my take on ninjas, there is definitely some room for improvement here. I usually try to lock down the board via Erayo + Arcane Laboratory. From there my ninjas can do their thang without being interrupted. The only problem I ever really have is that before you flip Erayo, Arcane Laboratory kind of gets in the way.
So far I've been having good success with the Cryptics. They have won me a couple of games and casting them hasn't been an issue. I should note however, that being mono blue and not having mutavaults makes it easier for me to use, since once I hit four lands I'm golden. I also tend to use them a bit later in the game, to ambush my opponent by tapping their creatures and bouncing something at the end of their turn to swing in for lethal or close to it.
Thanks for the reminder on the Cryptics, I guess I'll only try it on the Mono-blue rather than the one with black splash. The UB is already running Mutavault so it might to tough to pull the Cryptics off. I also have a playset of Threads of Disloyalty coming in soon which i intend to run at least 2 of them maindeck in my Mono-Blue.
Yesterday I picked up some fetches and more shock lands, so I have the mana base now to test the UB version. I also picked up two SoFI on the cheap. The games I played with them, they were super stars. The card draw was nice and that 2 extra damage was as well. Being able to send it to my opponents dome, or a pesky creature was a nice bit of reach. I did however put the cryptics in the sideboard. I'm going to do some more testing with the swords maindeck vs. cryptics to see which I like better. I'm wondering if a split of 1 each would be good? I'd like to be greedy and find a way to play 2 swords and 2 cryptics, but I'm not sure if that's reasonable.
With so many flyers around, it is pretty easy for SoFI to connect and CA is a limited commodity in Modern so we have another CA source other than NoDH. Although I havent tested yet between the 2 Swords but I feel SoFI thumps SoFF at the moment for Ninjas. Personally I still prefer swords maindeck over Cryptics simply because swords effect is permanent compared to cyptics. The correct choice is probably meta-dependant.
Basically I feel there are 4 slots for the deck's "BOMB" and the choices are between Swords, Cyptics and Higure.
Also the more I play test the more I'm wondering what advantage mono-blue would have, outside of being easier on the budget. At least being able to have a black splash available for removal seems really good. Thoughtseize at a miminum could take the place of probe.
I also bumped my land count up 1 to make it 21. I had a few too many games where I was stuck on 2 lands or missed my second land drop because I took a greedy 1 lander. I found that mulliganing a 1 land hand usually left me something much worse. Could be bad luck or the MTGO shuffler, but it seems like I either had a 1 land nut draw that was a crapshoot or a 6 card hand with 4 lands.
IMO there is no reason not to splash a second color really, Thoughtseize/ Inquisition of Kozilek on your opponent's best card with a measly one drop on our side is really massive. I realise there are so many games my chances of winning increases immediately if I managed to rip out their key cards early on. Also knowing what they have on their hands is an added bonus. The other more important reason is playing a second color also do not destabilise us much.
I'm going to also rotate spell snares in main deck to see how I like them. I've been following various Fae based lists, and LSV ran spell snare md in his Next level Fae deck. It does hit a lot of cards and I think deserves a spot in the 75.
How is the spell pierce working in your main deck? Has it been effective thus far?
Little on budget for the lands, but this is working quite well somehow.
Unlike anothers Ramp decks, here you don't need to go crazy ramping, just the exact amount to make the game faster and reliable.
Nice to know you are enjoying Ninjas. Playing Ninjas is really a blast, one successful ninjutsu put a smile on my face, 2 successful ninjutsu and I'm grinning from face to face, 3 ninjutsu makes my day, 4th Ninjustu and Ninjas FTW!!!!!!:rolleyes:
Yup, it's budget so it's probably not as fast. The deck doesnt seem to be able to play tempo game but like you say it's a ramp deck so it doesnt matter. The key cards has got to be the Mistblade Shinobi & Higure, the Still Wind which are able to turn a losing game around.
I tried Harmonize before and didn't like it due to it being too slow, however if you still want them as CA, you should be playing concentrate since it does the same thing and you have more U mana sources. Jace's Ingenuity might be better although it costs more but honesty I'll run Thread of disloyalty over them.
Hey everybody, new here, but I have always loved ninjas (especially Ink-Eyes and Higure).
This is my take on ninjas, there is definitely some room for improvement here. I usually try to lock down the board via Erayo + Arcane Laboratory. From there my ninjas can do their thang without being interrupted. The only problem I ever really have is that before you flip Erayo, Arcane Laboratory kind of gets in the way.
I just don't really know what should go and what should stay. Nice to meet you all!
Yeah! One more Ninja Lover! Unfortunately we are in the Modern realm...do you by any chance have a modern meta in your area? With the exception of a few cards, the core of your deck is still mostly Modern, the Ninjas, Kira and Erayo are all modern legal.
Spell Pierce has been pretty good. Sometimes it is a dead card and other times it's awesome, especially in the early game. I still don't have the Spell Snares, but once I do, I'll give them a go and see how they fair.
I have been brewing about 4 or so different versions of this deck. Some with Higure, (found out he's awesome btw), some with discard, some with or without Cryptic, and I have a build with Swords, Higure, and Cryptics.
One thing I'm seeing is that I think snapcaster, while awesome, may not be the best fit. He can do some degenerate stuff, but I think that his synergy with Ninjas, may not be there. Higure is awesome. I think he might be better than Cryptic Command if your build is trying to go more aggro than control. I kinda see him as the Ninja plainswalker. I've been playing with two, and I think 3 could be the number. Might be 1 too many since he is legendary, but I want to see one of him each game.
For me lately, I'm going back and forth on building more of a UB Aggro build, with no counter magic aside from Spellstutter, and using discard as proactive counter magic, versus a more aggro-control game, with counters and bounce spells. I think the aggro variety is suiting me better, because I want to tap out for Ninjitsu and try to put some pressure on.
Also I have bumped the land to 22, that does seem to be the sweet spot, especially with Swords and Higure who require a bit of mana to get going.
Also SoFI has been awesome. The card draw is nice and the extra damage is very good.
Match-up wise, I have a hard time against mono-red aggro and Zoo. Once a Knight or Goyf hits the table, it's really hard to deal with it. Aggro is so fast they can burn you out before you can stabilize and they kill your ninjas in response to ninjitsu, resulting in a huge tempo loss.
Combo I feel is a good match up for ninjas. We have enough disruption to keep them from going off and with our creatures free to swing in, we can keep drawing answers.
What I'd like to know is what you put in your sideboard for aggro? Do you side in removal in place of discard or some ninjas?
Spell Pierce has been pretty good. Sometimes it is a dead card and other times it's awesome, especially in the early game. I still don't have the Spell Snares, but once I do, I'll give them a go and see how they fair.
I'm beginning to look at Ninjas more from a tempo perspective. B gives us discard, U gives us cheap counters in Spell Pierce and Spell Snare, the CA comes from NoDH and Mistblade shinobi bounces their troublesome creatures. It feels so much like a typical tempo deck - the difference being getting a "high" from each successful Ninjutsu :rolleyes:.
It will be meta dependent, regarding the choice of Snare or Pierce but as a mainboard it also depends on your style of play and the deck construction. If you are going to go aggro, Snare is better and if you are going control, pierce is more suitable.
I have been brewing about 4 or so different versions of this deck. Some with Higure, (found out he's awesome btw), some with discard, some with or without Cryptic, and I have a build with Swords, Higure, and Cryptics.
One thing I'm seeing is that I think snapcaster, while awesome, may not be the best fit. He can do some degenerate stuff, but I think that his synergy with Ninjas, may not be there. Higure is awesome. I think he might be better than Cryptic Command if your build is trying to go more aggro than control. I kinda see him as the Ninja plainswalker. I've been playing with two, and I think 3 could be the number. Might be 1 too many since he is legendary, but I want to see one of him each game.
Higure is really massive. That guy is a cheatable Ninja tutor which can makes other Ninja unblockable. Also his 4 thoughness puts him out of most burn spells range which is very prevalent in Modern. I'm playing the Ninja deck for him and NoDH really.
I also agree Snapcaster mage is not a good fit here. He really needs flying (like Spellstutter Sprite or one of the Faeries) otherwise he doesnt enable Ninjutsu. Snapcaster does not fall into any of the category of Ninja Or Ninja Enabler. On second thoughts if he has flying, wouldnt that guy be indisputably the best creature ever?
For me lately, I'm going back and forth on building more of a UB Aggro build, with no counter magic aside from Spellstutter, and using discard as proactive counter magic, versus a more aggro-control game, with counters and bounce spells. I think the aggro variety is suiting me better, because I want to tap out for Ninjitsu and try to put some pressure on.
I think having no countermagic is fine, as long as we have discard to remove the threats to ensure a successful Ninjutsu. I find myself usually tapping out to Ninjutsu during the early game anyway. Spellstutter also usually cant do much in the early game because I'm always tapped out for the likes of NODH and Shinobi etc.
Match-up wise, I have a hard time against mono-red aggro and Zoo. Once a Knight or Goyf hits the table, it's really hard to deal with it. Aggro is so fast they can burn you out before you can stabilize and they kill your ninjas in response to ninjitsu, resulting in a huge tempo loss.
Against Mono-red aggro, Spellstutter Sprite is very good. Against them I tend to play slowly, discarding and countering their spells first before I start Ninjutsuing. Higure is the key to winning the matchups. Besides you also have SoFI to kill them.
Aggro and Zoo has a tendency to have opening hand which we simply cannot handle especially more if they are going first.
There is really not much of a chance we have against Zoo. Zoo either have too many removals or too many one-drops creatures and topdeck better than us. Unfortunately at the moment it seems we are easy meat for those cheap animals...:embarrass:
Combo I feel is a good match up for ninjas. We have enough disruption to keep them from going off and with our creatures free to swing in, we can keep drawing answers.
What I'd like to know is what you put in your sideboard for aggro? Do you side in removal in place of discard or some ninjas?
Combo is a postitve matchup for Ninja. You can even sideboard in Disruption Shoal to made the matchup even better.
To be honest I have not practised much sideboarding, but I'll side in removal the likes of Go for the throat and max out on 4x Mistblade Shinobi, a combination of discard/counterspells will be taken out to make space for them. Mistblade does a good job of messing up their tempo since they have to recast the creature again, which i usually do on their highest casting cost creature.
Right now I'm keen to try another Ninja concept, and I'm moving towards UG Ninjas. There is a tentative list below which I have not done much playtesting yet. Somehow I feel the deck is all over the place at the moment.
It has seen success sometime ago, but it was a different era with a different format:
But I don't quite understand why you are running Mox Opal at all, you don't have anything which enable metalcraft in your deck other than 2 SoFI.
Also, Gitaxion Probe is unnecessary, it is merely a look at your opponent hand cantrip here. Even after seeing your opponent's hand you don't have any spells or effects to do anything with this knowledge.
I also noticed the you are splashing an additional colour W only for 4x Path to Exile. It is a lot of effort completely fixing the manabase for PtE, seeing you have to use Hallowed Fountain & Nimbus Maze. Increase in the number of fetchlands and you can easily reduce the number of Shocklands and Nimbus Maze played.
Oh, and I think your nick is cool..It's so Ninja...;)
I like your primer and I'm halfway tempted to try it again.. We definitely do have new cards that empower Ninjas since Kamigawa era, so how's your testing going?
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3 Mistblade shinobi 1 oboro
3 kira, great glass spinner 1 minamo
3 sower of temptation 2 Contested War Zone
4 ornithopter 13 islands
4 signal pest
4 cursecatcher
4 remand
3 disrupting shoal
4 spell pierce
2 threads of disloyalty
Thanks for the clarification, I read the Ninjutsu text carefully and didnt see any mention of the word target, but didnt want to assume otherwise.
That's right, I'm currently running this list. At the moment I can't think of any ways to improve the deck further, it's seems any changes I make will just result in taking a step backward.
I'll appreciate it if you can try the deck in MTGO as I'm unable to test my Ninjas in the correct modern environment. My playtest so far includes legacy/rogue modern decks and Tier one Zoo,Elves and RDW which is insufficient.
Your Ninja signature is amazing....I could do with it somewhere in my opening post...:D
Hatred is not legal in Modern, I trying searching for a card similar to it but there isn't any in modern BU currrently.
Enabling the Ninjutsu is not good enough as opponent can still use one of the many instant removal spells on the Ninjas after the Ninjutsu. Thus I'm running the hand discard for their removal spells. Also it is expensive at 1U, as we can only attack on the third turn.
There is no direct CA, the 'virtual' card advantage comes in the form of NoDH, Higure, recycling Spellstutter with Ninjutsu etc.
Familiar's Ruse is very good here, in most decks it is a drawback but for us it actually creates CA - returning the likes of Spellstutter/Clique/Ninjas.
I can understand why you left Ninjas, many a times i was exasperated with the Ninja experience because after a few successful hits my opponent was still sitting at more than 10 life. This deck is primarily a early control/mid range aggro deck with Higure and Clique as the main source of damage. However the deck will fold very easily if it fails to do some early control or fail to gain any meaningful advantage with Ninjutsu.
A few times i lost very easily when Ninjutsu failed to kick off and I only had a few 1/1 faeries holding the fort. All in all, the deck is still extremely fun to play with although there are games when I lose without doing anything.
Testing wise...in all honesty I tend to have a unfavourable winning percentage :embarrass:...however the deck has the tendency to win BIG.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Modern isn't very inviting to players that want to play U. It shows with Faerie decks forcing themselves to play Tarmogoyf because it gives them the exact finisher they are in need of, just like Ninjas is in need of. Not to mention that the interaction between Goyf and Ninjutsu can provide exponential CA. Path to Exile is slung at attacking Goyfs so much and Ninjutsu is protection from that. So, forcing your opponent to start playing their G2/G3 Paths on your Upkeep/MP1 gives you info and them less removal.
I've also put in Signal Pest and that card has been doing well for me. It makes your ninja's do significantly more damage and it has evasion. I find myself using my Ninjutsu on Signal Pest and then casting him on my second main phase. The primer over in Legacy runs him in their FaeNinjaStill list and again, I have been loving him so far.
I've also been experimenting with a U/W list. I am running Gitaxian Probe in place of discard spells and the splash so far has been x2 Dawn Charm and x3 Oblivion Ring. Might be a janky idea, but I've had some moderate success with it.
I think overall that snapcaster and signal pest should see some additional testing.
Snapcaster is a amazing card but Ninjas are already so mana-intensive enough therefore I'm not sure how he fits here.
Moreover Snapcaster does not have evasion, after flashing him in and flashbacking something useful, what can we do with him that is in synergy with the rest of the deck?
I still feel Spellstutter Sprite is a better choice with it's countering abilities and evasion.
Interesting aggro deck using control/bounce on opponents creatures rather than removing them. Spell pierce is a good spell to stop opponents's removals. The deck looks really optimal and I don't really know how to improve it further. I might suggest Spellstutter Sprite to replace Remand.
Do you need to maindeck disrupting shoal ? Is that a counter for board wipes such as Wrath of God etc? If the deck empty it's hand very quickly I'm not sure if you have any cards to pitch to shoal. Maybe Familiar Ruse will be useful here since you have no short of low casting cost creatures to put into play. Otherwise Stoic Rebuttal could be an alternative especially seeing the deck has 8 artifact creatures.
For mono-blue, Gitaxian Probe is definitely a good choice. For UB, with hand disruption available we do not really need probe.
Agree, at the moment U is not Modern's favourite color. But I don't understand what you mean by Ninjutsu having protection from Path To Exile. PtE can be cast anytime as and when with regards Goyf or Ninjas.
Are you able to show me your decklists with Snapcaster? As a mono-blue Ninja deck, Snapcaster with Spell snare/spell pierce/into the roil might be pure nasty but for UB it seems to be asking too much to stuff so many ninjas/mages/ninjas enablers in the same deck.
Definitely, I'm thinking of playing with Signal Pest as well, but with Erayo, Soratami Ascendant and also Gitaxian Probe. 4x Into the Roil may be good enough for us we do not even need Oblivion Ring IMO with Erayo.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
3x Mistblade Shinobi
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
4x Spellstutter Sprite
2x Vendilion Clique
3x Signal Pest
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Into the Roil
4x Distortion Strike
4x Gitaxion Probe
4x Mutavault
16 x Island
Looking at the list I'm thinking Distortion Strike & Probe might be the weak links. Perhaps they could be reduced or removed for more counters? I'm also wondering if Cryptic Command should have a home in here somewhere.
I'm thinking Spell Pierce might be good. Your decklist is very neat and tidy, but it doesnt offer the protection of a turn 2/3 successful Ninja hit. Gitaxian Probe is good as we can see our opponent hand before deciding how we want to implement our Ninja tricks but still it doesnt provide us with any answers. What if we see something unsavoury there? Spell Pierce could be useful here. Spell pierce can ensure successful Ninjutsu for turn 2 Mistblade Shinobi or turn 3 NoDH.
As a result I might cut out Distortion strike for Spell Pierce. I'm also quite tempted to replace one of the SoFI for 1x Higure.
Cryptic Command tapping all opponents creatures so Ninjas could beat through? Sounds Godly! Too bad I don't know what else I can cut out for command. IMO i feel it is SoFI or Higure or Cyptic Command vying for the same slot.
All in all nice Mono-blue list here, I intended to make a competitive Mono-blue list here but I guess you beat me to it :rolleyes:. If the list works I'll add it into the primer (with credits to you of course for coming up with the list ;))
Also, thanks for the PM. The signature is SOOOOO awesome!!! Appreciate your kind gesture, will send you a reply shortly. NINJAS FTW!!!!!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Can I suggest Vines of Vastwood in place of Giant Growth? However due to the GG required for the kicker effect I'll add in 4x misty rainforest in place of Simic Growth Chamer, and also slot in a couple of Flooded Grove for more G.
Furthermore Vines of Vastwood offer protection against your opponent doing a 2 for 1 move on your enchantment Auras as you can cast it in response to an opponent spell on the creature your Aura is targetting. You certainty need more ways to protect your creatures since you don't run counterspells or hand discard and only have 4x Veil of secrecy for shroud.
Here is the amended list:
2 Walker of Secret Ways
2 Higure, the Still Wind
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
Enablers - 22
4 Augury Owl
4 Ornithopter
2 Signal Pest
4 Writ of Passage
4 Veil of Secrecy
4 Distortion Strike
2 Primal Forcemage
4 Vines of Vastwood
Lands - 22
12 Island
2 Flooded Grove
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Yavimaya Coast
This is a slightly edited version of your deck, it does have a very nice and smooth offensive plan, however what about defense? Other than Mistblade shinobi (bouncing opposing creatures every turn) the deck doesnt seem to be able to hold off an enemy creatures onslaught unless your core strategy is to race your opponent.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I also ditched the strikes for 3 Spell Pierce and upped the thopter to make it a 4 of since it's the nuts when you draw it in your opening hand.
So far my worse matches tend to be fast aggro, but I haven't developed a board yet, so I've just been testing game ones. Once I get the mutavaults, I'm going to start heading in to the tourney practice room and build up a sideboard to do some additional testing.
I had a buddy let me borrow a sword and I used a whispercloak as a place holder for the second sword. I found them to leave me in a awkward position, because I didn't want to commit the mana to casting them without counter back up. I haven't played with swords before, so I may be doing it wrong, but I never felt like having a sword in hand was going to catch me up or win a game. I have however had it used against me, and I can say feast and famine can be a beating.
However the cryptics seem more natural because we can do so much with that spell. Counters, tapping creatures and even returning a ninja to our hand, (or something to our opponent's hand) seems to be really good. I'd like to hear your thoughts though on the sword package as I feel that I may not be playing them right and they deserve more testing in the mono blue list.
Also snapcaster with familar's ruse is nuts. Also familar's ruse with ninjas is awesome. I'm loving that counter spell and rarely have I been in a situation where I could not use it because I didn't have a creature.
Overall I'm having a blast playing with ninjas, which is awesome. Once I can round up the rest of the cards I need, I'll be able to put the lists through some legitimate matches against the better decks. If all goes well, I'll enter in to some 2 man queues or maybe a daily event and write up a tournament/match up report.
Ornithopter is nuts! Having one on the opening hand with a Ninja almost certainly ensure I'll be able to Ninjutsu early.
Because I'm running plenty of flyers in Ornithopters, Spellsutter, Clique and random faeries, the SoFF will always take over a stalled board. However it is a Sword that helps us to win over a stalemate, not one that can turn a losing game around. SoFF is usually too late too little when opponent has already established the board advantage. IMO SoFI might be better here in making a comeback. I feel you should keep at least one mainboard.
On the Cryptics, I'll try them somehow, however I'll likely take out my swords in order to make space for them.
Familar's Ruse is really massive here. To other decks it has a drawback but for us most of the time I'm more than happy to return my creatures to my hand.
However I noticed you only run 20 lands, would that be enough? I'll run at least 22 lands.
Glad to know you have having lots of fun with Ninjas, I'm enjoying myself tremendously playing them too, looking forward to some match reports on your Ninjas deck!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
One thing I'm running in to that I cannot deal with is Goyf. He's such a beating. This is where I imagine running black would come in to play, as you could remove him with discard or send a doom blade in his direction. With mono blue, if I don't have the right tempo, he'll get on board if I cannot counter or if I don't have any bounce available.
The one thing I'm thinking of trying is using Spell Snare. Maybe if not in the main deck, in the sideboard, I could bring it in to deal with Goyf and or Bob.
I've been testing with 1 sword maindeck and 2 cryptics. I am warming up to the sword. The sword I have been using is Sword of Body and Mind. The extra damage is nice and for that equipment, the discard and wolf token have been decent. I have had some plays where I cast Familar's Ruse and bounce the token so I can keep my flyers on the board.
My theory crafting is leading me to believe that SoFF would be our best choice, since we could equip and untap or lands after an attack, leaving up mana for counter magic. Has that been your experience with using it in the UB version?
On the topic of Goyf, I think he could be our missing finisher. Fae has been splashing for him and it seems like he's really worth it. Outside of obvious budget issues, do you think a green splash just for him is worth it?
But still my opponents are always able to sneak in a few goyfs...
Spell Snare can be an option too as many black removals are also 2cc so we can use it not only against Goyf but to protect our own creatures as well. Perhaps you might want to playtest between Spell Pierce and Spell Snare in the mainboard. We should have space in the sideboard for them though.
I haven't tested on Sword of Body and Mind, in fact I'm quite afraid of milling my opponent in this Snapcaster era :rolleyes:. Sword of Feast and Famine would be better here since it can block Goyf/pro B removals. So far for me SoFF usually go online during late game when I already have plenty of mana so the untap all mana didn't really benefit me greatly. I usually do not cast it early as I would be busy keeping mana free and Ninjutsuing. Usually I cast it when I have around 5-6 lands. I also only play a single piece so I don't really draw it often. It is not really a card I like to see in my opening hand.
How is the 2 cryptics working for you? Are you able to cast them effectively or are they too clunky due to it's mana cost? I'm seriously thinking of slotting 2 of them into my deck to replace my Go for the throat.
I'm not into playing Goyf at all as he is a bad Ninjutsu target...But I may change my mind when I start brainstorming a GU Ninjas deck build around Birds of Paradise and Erayo.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Yesterday I picked up some fetches and more shock lands, so I have the mana base now to test the UB version. I also picked up two SoFI on the cheap. The games I played with them, they were super stars. The card draw was nice and that 2 extra damage was as well. Being able to send it to my opponents dome, or a pesky creature was a nice bit of reach. I did however put the cryptics in the sideboard. I'm going to do some more testing with the swords maindeck vs. cryptics to see which I like better. I'm wondering if a split of 1 each would be good? I'd like to be greedy and find a way to play 2 swords and 2 cryptics, but I'm not sure if that's reasonable.
Also the more I play test the more I'm wondering what advantage mono-blue would have, outside of being easier on the budget. At least being able to have a black splash available for removal seems really good. Thoughtseize at a miminum could take the place of probe.
I also bumped my land count up 1 to make it 21. I had a few too many games where I was stuck on 2 lands or missed my second land drop because I took a greedy 1 lander. I found that mulliganing a 1 land hand usually left me something much worse. Could be bad luck or the MTGO shuffler, but it seems like I either had a 1 land nut draw that was a crapshoot or a 6 card hand with 4 lands.
I'm going to also rotate spell snares in main deck to see how I like them. I've been following various Fae based lists, and LSV ran spell snare md in his Next level Fae deck. It does hit a lot of cards and I think deserves a spot in the 75.
I've been giving a try for this deck and it's so fun to play it!:D
So, I came up with the BUG ninja ramp or something alike.
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Underground River
2 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Ornithopter
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Tormented Soul
3 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Walker of Secret Ways
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4 Distortion Strike
4 Familiar's Ruse
3 Go for the Throat
3 Rampant Growth
2 Harmonize
Little on budget for the lands, but this is working quite well somehow.
Unlike anothers Ramp decks, here you don't need to go crazy ramping, just the exact amount to make the game faster and reliable.
Tormented Soul over Signal Pest because in my meta we have a lot of flyers...
Maybe I could put another win con like Kokusho, the Evening Star or Grave Titan...
Overall, it's very self explanatory.
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
3 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
2 Higure the Still Wind
2 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Sensie's Divining Top
3 Vedalken Shackles
2 Propaganda
4 Counterspell
4 Familiar's Ruse
4 Brainstorm
4 Watery Grave
14 Island
Hey everybody, new here, but I have always loved ninjas (especially Ink-Eyes and Higure).
This is my take on ninjas, there is definitely some room for improvement here. I usually try to lock down the board via Erayo + Arcane Laboratory. From there my ninjas can do their thang without being interrupted. The only problem I ever really have is that before you flip Erayo, Arcane Laboratory kind of gets in the way.
Things I think might be good to add
Daze
Standstill
Force of Will
Thoughtseize
Cryptic Command
I just don't really know what should go and what should stay. Nice to meet you all!
mfw i thought i was in the legacy section. got kinda lost.
sorry guys :/
Thanks for the reminder on the Cryptics, I guess I'll only try it on the Mono-blue rather than the one with black splash. The UB is already running Mutavault so it might to tough to pull the Cryptics off. I also have a playset of Threads of Disloyalty coming in soon which i intend to run at least 2 of them maindeck in my Mono-Blue.
With so many flyers around, it is pretty easy for SoFI to connect and CA is a limited commodity in Modern so we have another CA source other than NoDH. Although I havent tested yet between the 2 Swords but I feel SoFI thumps SoFF at the moment for Ninjas. Personally I still prefer swords maindeck over Cryptics simply because swords effect is permanent compared to cyptics. The correct choice is probably meta-dependant.
Basically I feel there are 4 slots for the deck's "BOMB" and the choices are between Swords, Cyptics and Higure.
IMO there is no reason not to splash a second color really, Thoughtseize/ Inquisition of Kozilek on your opponent's best card with a measly one drop on our side is really massive. I realise there are so many games my chances of winning increases immediately if I managed to rip out their key cards early on. Also knowing what they have on their hands is an added bonus. The other more important reason is playing a second color also do not destabilise us much.
How is the spell pierce working in your main deck? Has it been effective thus far?
NINJA FTW!!!!!!!!!
Nice to know you are enjoying Ninjas. Playing Ninjas is really a blast, one successful ninjutsu put a smile on my face, 2 successful ninjutsu and I'm grinning from face to face, 3 ninjutsu makes my day, 4th Ninjustu and Ninjas FTW!!!!!!:rolleyes:
Yup, it's budget so it's probably not as fast. The deck doesnt seem to be able to play tempo game but like you say it's a ramp deck so it doesnt matter. The key cards has got to be the Mistblade Shinobi & Higure, the Still Wind which are able to turn a losing game around.
I tried Harmonize before and didn't like it due to it being too slow, however if you still want them as CA, you should be playing concentrate since it does the same thing and you have more U mana sources. Jace's Ingenuity might be better although it costs more but honesty I'll run Thread of disloyalty over them.
Yeah! One more Ninja Lover! Unfortunately we are in the Modern realm...do you by any chance have a modern meta in your area? With the exception of a few cards, the core of your deck is still mostly Modern, the Ninjas, Kira and Erayo are all modern legal.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I have been brewing about 4 or so different versions of this deck. Some with Higure, (found out he's awesome btw), some with discard, some with or without Cryptic, and I have a build with Swords, Higure, and Cryptics.
One thing I'm seeing is that I think snapcaster, while awesome, may not be the best fit. He can do some degenerate stuff, but I think that his synergy with Ninjas, may not be there. Higure is awesome. I think he might be better than Cryptic Command if your build is trying to go more aggro than control. I kinda see him as the Ninja plainswalker. I've been playing with two, and I think 3 could be the number. Might be 1 too many since he is legendary, but I want to see one of him each game.
For me lately, I'm going back and forth on building more of a UB Aggro build, with no counter magic aside from Spellstutter, and using discard as proactive counter magic, versus a more aggro-control game, with counters and bounce spells. I think the aggro variety is suiting me better, because I want to tap out for Ninjitsu and try to put some pressure on.
Also I have bumped the land to 22, that does seem to be the sweet spot, especially with Swords and Higure who require a bit of mana to get going.
Also SoFI has been awesome. The card draw is nice and the extra damage is very good.
Match-up wise, I have a hard time against mono-red aggro and Zoo. Once a Knight or Goyf hits the table, it's really hard to deal with it. Aggro is so fast they can burn you out before you can stabilize and they kill your ninjas in response to ninjitsu, resulting in a huge tempo loss.
Combo I feel is a good match up for ninjas. We have enough disruption to keep them from going off and with our creatures free to swing in, we can keep drawing answers.
What I'd like to know is what you put in your sideboard for aggro? Do you side in removal in place of discard or some ninjas?
I'm beginning to look at Ninjas more from a tempo perspective. B gives us discard, U gives us cheap counters in Spell Pierce and Spell Snare, the CA comes from NoDH and Mistblade shinobi bounces their troublesome creatures. It feels so much like a typical tempo deck - the difference being getting a "high" from each successful Ninjutsu :rolleyes:.
It will be meta dependent, regarding the choice of Snare or Pierce but as a mainboard it also depends on your style of play and the deck construction. If you are going to go aggro, Snare is better and if you are going control, pierce is more suitable.
Higure is really massive. That guy is a cheatable Ninja tutor which can makes other Ninja unblockable. Also his 4 thoughness puts him out of most burn spells range which is very prevalent in Modern. I'm playing the Ninja deck for him and NoDH really.
I also agree Snapcaster mage is not a good fit here. He really needs flying (like Spellstutter Sprite or one of the Faeries) otherwise he doesnt enable Ninjutsu. Snapcaster does not fall into any of the category of Ninja Or Ninja Enabler. On second thoughts if he has flying, wouldnt that guy be indisputably the best creature ever?
I think having no countermagic is fine, as long as we have discard to remove the threats to ensure a successful Ninjutsu. I find myself usually tapping out to Ninjutsu during the early game anyway. Spellstutter also usually cant do much in the early game because I'm always tapped out for the likes of NODH and Shinobi etc.
Yup, I'm also playing 22 lands. Feels like the right number for me too.
Against Mono-red aggro, Spellstutter Sprite is very good. Against them I tend to play slowly, discarding and countering their spells first before I start Ninjutsuing. Higure is the key to winning the matchups. Besides you also have SoFI to kill them.
Aggro and Zoo has a tendency to have opening hand which we simply cannot handle especially more if they are going first.
There is really not much of a chance we have against Zoo. Zoo either have too many removals or too many one-drops creatures and topdeck better than us. Unfortunately at the moment it seems we are easy meat for those cheap animals...:embarrass:
Combo is a postitve matchup for Ninja. You can even sideboard in Disruption Shoal to made the matchup even better.
To be honest I have not practised much sideboarding, but I'll side in removal the likes of Go for the throat and max out on 4x Mistblade Shinobi, a combination of discard/counterspells will be taken out to make space for them. Mistblade does a good job of messing up their tempo since they have to recast the creature again, which i usually do on their highest casting cost creature.
Right now I'm keen to try another Ninja concept, and I'm moving towards UG Ninjas. There is a tentative list below which I have not done much playtesting yet. Somehow I feel the deck is all over the place at the moment.
It has seen success sometime ago, but it was a different era with a different format:
German Nationals Top-8 in 2006 - Ninja-Erayo
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=48095
Need some solid advice here, I'm not strong with playing UG really.
4 Ornithoper
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Higure, the Still Wind
Spells [16]
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
3 Familiar's Ruse
2 Boomerang
4 Repeal
1 Cryptic Command
1 Voidslime
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
Land [22]
6 Forest
8 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
May I suggest Threads of Disloyalty? They will be good for matchups against Zoo.
But I don't quite understand why you are running Mox Opal at all, you don't have anything which enable metalcraft in your deck other than 2 SoFI.
Also, Gitaxion Probe is unnecessary, it is merely a look at your opponent hand cantrip here. Even after seeing your opponent's hand you don't have any spells or effects to do anything with this knowledge.
I also noticed the you are splashing an additional colour W only for 4x Path to Exile. It is a lot of effort completely fixing the manabase for PtE, seeing you have to use Hallowed Fountain & Nimbus Maze. Increase in the number of fetchlands and you can easily reduce the number of Shocklands and Nimbus Maze played.
Oh, and I think your nick is cool..It's so Ninja...;)
NINJA FTW!!!!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W