i believe it'll be quite sometime before ninjas have "real success" but that should never discourage you from building something you'd enjoy especially something as cool as ninjas. has anyone tried like a Uwb esper fae ninja build? like the only things im thinking of doing with white would be sideboard stuff path to exile moorland haunt has anyone tried that land? i feel like thats perfect getting more uses out of your creatures. with black for discard and more ninjas. honestly would it kill to finally get the pirates vs ninja plane
i believe it'll be quite sometime before ninjas have "real success" but that should never discourage you from building something you'd enjoy especially something as cool as ninjas. has anyone tried like a Uwb esper fae ninja build? like the only things im thinking of doing with white would be sideboard stuff path to exile moorland haunt has anyone tried that land? i feel like thats perfect getting more uses out of your creatures. with black for discard and more ninjas. honestly would it kill to finally get the pirates vs ninja plane
yeah I like that Moorland Haunt provide us a steady stream of Ninja enablers, gives me a chance to shout "Ninjutsu" for every ninja I draw .
I would certainty add a couple of this into my deck if I splash W.
I have an idea for a ninja build, but it's nothing more than an idea I'll kick out here and see if anybody can pick it up and run with it. I've played thousands of games in modern with ninjas. The Abyssal Persecutor trials were a flop. My current build looks like this:
Pretty standard ninja build. I find I can win game one against most tier one decks as much as any other solid build. Affinity is a bad matchup. RDW is not as bad as it used be for me. Maybe I've just gotten better at piloting the deck, but if Spellstutter Sprite is in my opening hand it's most likely a win, since most of their stuff is CMC 1. Tron can be beat readily. Delver is tough, but again, it can be done. So for arguments sake, the ninja deck performs as well as any other tier one deck in game one.
So, hypothetically, I win game one. I sideboard in a few cards that would be better suited to the deck I'm facing. (Let's for examples' sake, say we're playing UWx Control).
Game two starts. Opp plays a fetch land. I play swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek. Their hand looks like this almost always:
That's a ton of removal. No real solid way to disrupt that. I play Ornithopter. Now, in game one, Ornithopter just sat there unmolested. Game two: they sac the fetch, grab a mountain and bolt my thopter.
Ok, play enabler two I happen to have. Opp: Lightning Helix. They then proceed to burn, path, or counter everything I play, forcing me to have to hard cast ninjas. This means I need, most likely, 6 mana to even think about getting Deep Hours on the board because he's going to countered, or he'll resolve and get Snapcaster graveyard hated to death.
So what happened? My opponent realizes, as any smart player will. That an Ornithopter is not harmless. It needs to die, forcing me to sit idly and use up counters that should be used to protect ninjas later in the game, once they hit the board. Now all my enablers are dead. Nobody can pick up Sword of x, and I have to wait until late game to hard cast ninjas, which means they are not a bargain. They are expensive and inefficient at this point. They have to sit there with summoning sickness and catch removal spells.
TLDR: Ninjas can win game one, but the element of surprise is over, and they will easily get hated out.
So my thought: If ninjas could consistently win game one, and then play a total transformational sideboard, they might be really, really good. Maybe something like remove the ninjas and play into 8Rack or something like that? I don't know yet. Any ideas?
I think that's a fair assessment. I'm definitely going to rework the enablers. I've always had this love/hate relation with Ornithopter. I love when he's out early in the game. I love when I can recast him right after Ninja of the Deep Hours on turn two to set up something for turn three. I love playing it turn one and getting to play hand disruption on the same turn. I hate having more than one, if the opponent hasn't figured out to kill it. I hate drawing into it later in the game. I hate that it's essentially a discard blocker at every point in the game. I think, as you said, those drawbacks outweigh the pros.
I'll add a few more man-lands and see how it goes. For now, Vendilion Clique is way too expensive to justify with my wife. But it would be an excellent card to put in the deck, I have no doubts. But that PRICE-point!? I can get a whole playset of Baleful Strix and two more Thoughtseize for that, then keep praying Wizards releases Stix into Modern someday. I think he's the greatest Ninja enabler ever printed.
What are your thoughts on Signal Pest? I tried it early in testing, but found it pretty lackluster. Also, I think he reminds people of Affinity, so I swear he subconsciously gets extra removal hate just for that reason. I've seen him get bolted on turn one, with nothing else on the board, and the opp had no idea I was playing ninjas beforehand.
I guess for now I'll try some bigger Fae, like Oona's Prowler and Mistbind Clique, which I already have on-hand. I'll add in some more man-lands in Faerie Conclave, and see how it goes.
What are your thoughts on Ravenous Rats. It has a nice EtB effect, but I never had much luck with it. It's the one card that makes me think, maybe I'd like to try transforming a black Ninja deck into something like 8 Rack for game two. Maybe Ninja into UB Faerie control?
I tried out the other faeries last night. It was bad; clunky and slow. Rats are pretty decent. Black offers a lot of removal, so keeping the board clear is not entirely unfeasible. Augury Owl is nice for filtering. He works pretty well with Remand.
Wingcrafter is my favorite enabler for ninjas, mechanic wise.
I will qote myself from not too distant past:
Wingcrafter doesn't fly on its own, plus it is a blowout waiting to happen. Consider the optimum use case for the card: You attack with a Ninja who flies by being paired with the crafter, they have no air blocker, but they have a ground blocker (otherwise the crafter wouldn't be necessary). They zap crafter and their goyf eats ninja. Bam, 2-for-1.
yup, pretty much , that's why I still prefer to use flyers or unblockable creatures as my choice of enablers, the situationality of Windcrafter and Soulbond mechanic put us at risk of a 2 for 1 and also bring up consistency issues.
What are your thoughts on Ravenous Rats. It has a nice EtB effect, but I never had much luck with it. It's the one card that makes me think, maybe I'd like to try transforming a black Ninja deck into something like 8 Rack for game two. Maybe Ninja into UB Faerie control?
I read through the thread and saw this question, so might as well just chip in with my experience in playing Ravenous Rats, IMO, other than using Familiar's Ruse or a BR Ninja Rats deck which carries cheap burn and removals, there are few opportunities to re-use Ravenous Rats ability. It is usually underwhelming and feels like a "opponent discard a irrelevant card, put a 1/1 creature in play". When I played it in my Mono Black Rats Ninjas, I had Typhoid Rats, Swarmyard together with it, so I could swing recklessly and re-use the ability if the rat goes unblocked, but in a UB deck I don't think the manabase permits us to play much of Swarmyard.
If you want the rats, you better make sure you can keep the board empty. You need to reuse them - just casting them and then chumpblocking is a bad plan. How realistic is that? I can't judge (again, I have little experience with UB).
Yup, using the ability once is not considered worthwhile and UB is usually unable to keep the board empty. My UR Ninjas does a better job, or BR with the burn spells.
Hey gang! General question here. Since after game one Ninjas get plenty of relevant hate from the SB, is there a way to create a transformational sideboard in response? Perhaps switching to Infect to take advantage of enablers? Or Maybe a straight up UB Faerie deck out of the side.
In a UB list, switching the Ninjas out for Faeries such as Scion of Oona, Mistbind Clique etc might be an interesting way to surprise the opponent, that being said I don't think it really does changes our poor matchups. Say if we are up against an aggro deck with large creatures, or a combo deck or even burn, changing our creatures to Faeries or infect does not improve our matchup. Unless we don't have anything for the sideboard otherwise it seems better just to put in the hate or counter stuffs.
Has anything try using Keranos, God of Storm as the deck finisher for UR Ninjas? He could help in ending stalemate or simply enter play and win it for us.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
Has anything try using Keranos, God of Storm as the deck finisher for UR Ninjas? He could help in ending stalemate or simply enter play and win it for us.
Many U(W)R and Twin players are getting the same idea lately, and I agree with them. I didn't play much of my UR ninjas lately, but I think he could easily replace Ral Zarek for me. Too bad, I love Ral, and the might be better in some scenarios, but Keranos will be so much better in so many more matchups.
My concern, creatures can be removed and is easier to deal with, unlike planeswalkers which can only really be stopped effectively by counterspells. I would go for Keranos as a result.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
One of my buddies told me about this deck. Was thinking about going the Ninja Rat route, to give my Swarmyards a bit of play. Does it preform well?
I have a decklist for Ninja Rats on the main page, it works pretty well, not Tier one but it is able to put in some competitive games. I played 4x Swarmyard and it's pretty funny sending my Typhoid Rats in and Ninjutsuing them when I have Swarmyard in play. This combination of deathtouch and regenerating rats almost always eventually result in a successful Ninjutsu. Also I like hiding Liliana of the Veil behind Swarmyard and Rats. Basically the deck is very easy and affordable to form (excluding LotV).
I love these ninja decks and am thinking about making my own soon.
Has anyone thought about using triton shorestalker or vault skirge?
Shorestalker was discussed on last few pages (spoiler: there was no consensus on whether it is good or bad).
Skirge is IMO just bad. The lifelink isn't terribly relevant (beating down is only a secondary purpose of an enabler) and you won't be able to power him up consistently (which is why Affinity loves him). And you have to pay life to be able to cast him for 1.
I love these ninja decks and am thinking about making my own soon.
Has anyone thought about using triton shorestalker or vault skirge?
Shorestalker was discussed on last few pages (spoiler: there was no consensus on whether it is good or bad).
Skirge is IMO just bad. The lifelink isn't terribly relevant (beating down is only a secondary purpose of an enabler) and you won't be able to power him up consistently (which is why Affinity loves him). And you have to pay life to be able to cast him for 1.
I have seen decks splash B sorely because of Tormented Soul, and it can only be good that we have a blue version in Triton Shorestalker. IMO if you are not going through the Faeries route in a blue decklist, Triton Shorestalker should be one of the key choices as a ninja enabler.
Here's my deck. I swapped Ravenous Rats out for Rotting Rats. I kinda like the option of playing a Rav Rats from my graveyard. Now that I'm thinking about it, can you ninjitsu out something that was Unearthed without it leaving play or does it just go bye-bye? I'm also using Marrow-Gnawer, mostly because I have 2 and I like him. He does give all rats a form of evasion and can swarm the field with tokens that can be used to put my ninjas into play.
Has there been any sort of significant talks about running snapcaster mage in any lists? seems like a powerful card to be able to re-use.
Yes, Snappy is IMO the best ninjutsu enabler there is. The only reason not to run him is if you run too few spells (less than 12 or so) and the fact that a playset will set you back $120.
He works even better in a ninja deck than in your regular UWR control/delver/twin list because we can reuse him so well. 4 snapcasters, 4 spellstutters and 2 or 3 cliques are auto-includes in any blue ninja variant I build.
Personally I don't really consider Snapcaster Mage as an Ninja enabler, I have him in my deck because he is just too strong to ignore when you are playing a sufficient number of instant/sorcery spells. I usually play 2-3 Snappy in my deck because after taking into account other Ninja enablers and the Ninjas themselves, there are barely any space left in the deck for non-creature spells, also Snappy's effectiveness is diminished with lesser sorceries and instants, thus finding the balance is critical here.
yeah I like that Moorland Haunt provide us a steady stream of Ninja enablers, gives me a chance to shout "Ninjutsu" for every ninja I draw .
I would certainty add a couple of this into my deck if I splash W.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
6 Swamp
10 Island
3 Ornithopter
2 Zephyr Sprite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Pestermite
2 Mistbind Clique
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Throat Slitter
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
2 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
2 Artful Dodge
2 Into the Roil
3 Familiar's Ruse
2 Go for the Throat
3 Far // Away
1 Bident of Thassa
4 Ornithopter
4 Zephyr Sprite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
Ninja:
2 Higure, the Still Wind
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Spells:
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Go for the Throat
4 Remand
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Underground River
7 Island
4 Swamp
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Watery Grave
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
4 Doom Blade
4 Countersquall
Pretty standard ninja build. I find I can win game one against most tier one decks as much as any other solid build. Affinity is a bad matchup. RDW is not as bad as it used be for me. Maybe I've just gotten better at piloting the deck, but if Spellstutter Sprite is in my opening hand it's most likely a win, since most of their stuff is CMC 1. Tron can be beat readily. Delver is tough, but again, it can be done. So for arguments sake, the ninja deck performs as well as any other tier one deck in game one.
So, hypothetically, I win game one. I sideboard in a few cards that would be better suited to the deck I'm facing. (Let's for examples' sake, say we're playing UWx Control).
Game two starts. Opp plays a fetch land. I play swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek. Their hand looks like this almost always:
Snapcaster Mage
Wall of Omens
Removal
Removal
Removal
Land
That's a ton of removal. No real solid way to disrupt that. I play Ornithopter. Now, in game one, Ornithopter just sat there unmolested. Game two: they sac the fetch, grab a mountain and bolt my thopter.
Ok, play enabler two I happen to have. Opp: Lightning Helix. They then proceed to burn, path, or counter everything I play, forcing me to have to hard cast ninjas. This means I need, most likely, 6 mana to even think about getting Deep Hours on the board because he's going to countered, or he'll resolve and get Snapcaster graveyard hated to death.
So what happened? My opponent realizes, as any smart player will. That an Ornithopter is not harmless. It needs to die, forcing me to sit idly and use up counters that should be used to protect ninjas later in the game, once they hit the board. Now all my enablers are dead. Nobody can pick up Sword of x, and I have to wait until late game to hard cast ninjas, which means they are not a bargain. They are expensive and inefficient at this point. They have to sit there with summoning sickness and catch removal spells.
TLDR: Ninjas can win game one, but the element of surprise is over, and they will easily get hated out.
So my thought: If ninjas could consistently win game one, and then play a total transformational sideboard, they might be really, really good. Maybe something like remove the ninjas and play into 8Rack or something like that? I don't know yet. Any ideas?
I'll add a few more man-lands and see how it goes. For now, Vendilion Clique is way too expensive to justify with my wife. But it would be an excellent card to put in the deck, I have no doubts. But that PRICE-point!? I can get a whole playset of Baleful Strix and two more Thoughtseize for that, then keep praying Wizards releases Stix into Modern someday. I think he's the greatest Ninja enabler ever printed.
What are your thoughts on Signal Pest? I tried it early in testing, but found it pretty lackluster. Also, I think he reminds people of Affinity, so I swear he subconsciously gets extra removal hate just for that reason. I've seen him get bolted on turn one, with nothing else on the board, and the opp had no idea I was playing ninjas beforehand.
I guess for now I'll try some bigger Fae, like Oona's Prowler and Mistbind Clique, which I already have on-hand. I'll add in some more man-lands in Faerie Conclave, and see how it goes.
What are your thoughts on Ravenous Rats. It has a nice EtB effect, but I never had much luck with it. It's the one card that makes me think, maybe I'd like to try transforming a black Ninja deck into something like 8 Rack for game two. Maybe Ninja into UB Faerie control?
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
yup, pretty much , that's why I still prefer to use flyers or unblockable creatures as my choice of enablers, the situationality of Windcrafter and Soulbond mechanic put us at risk of a 2 for 1 and also bring up consistency issues.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I read through the thread and saw this question, so might as well just chip in with my experience in playing Ravenous Rats, IMO, other than using Familiar's Ruse or a BR Ninja Rats deck which carries cheap burn and removals, there are few opportunities to re-use Ravenous Rats ability. It is usually underwhelming and feels like a "opponent discard a irrelevant card, put a 1/1 creature in play". When I played it in my Mono Black Rats Ninjas, I had Typhoid Rats, Swarmyard together with it, so I could swing recklessly and re-use the ability if the rat goes unblocked, but in a UB deck I don't think the manabase permits us to play much of Swarmyard.
Yup, using the ability once is not considered worthwhile and UB is usually unable to keep the board empty. My UR Ninjas does a better job, or BR with the burn spells.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Just food for thought!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
My concern, creatures can be removed and is easier to deal with, unlike planeswalkers which can only really be stopped effectively by counterspells. I would go for Keranos as a result.
WBTokensWB
Has anyone thought about using triton shorestalker or vault skirge?
My Decks:
All my Decks are budget
EDH:GRWHazezon TamarGRW, RKazuul, Tyrant of the CliffsR, BMikaeus, the UnhallowedB, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GRXenagos, God of RevelsGR, BGPharika, God of AfflictionBG
Standard:BMono Black Control(devotion)B- retired
Casual:UWHeroicUW, UGWall tribalUG, BPhylactery LichB
Modern:UBAbyssal PersecutorUB, WKnight TribalW
I have a decklist for Ninja Rats on the main page, it works pretty well, not Tier one but it is able to put in some competitive games. I played 4x Swarmyard and it's pretty funny sending my Typhoid Rats in and Ninjutsuing them when I have Swarmyard in play. This combination of deathtouch and regenerating rats almost always eventually result in a successful Ninjutsu. Also I like hiding Liliana of the Veil behind Swarmyard and Rats. Basically the deck is very easy and affordable to form (excluding LotV).
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
If Tormented Soul is worth playing in black versions then I don't see why Triton Shorestalker would be any different.
I have seen decks splash B sorely because of Tormented Soul, and it can only be good that we have a blue version in Triton Shorestalker. IMO if you are not going through the Faeries route in a blue decklist, Triton Shorestalker should be one of the key choices as a ninja enabler.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
4x Typhoid Rat
4x Rotting Rats
3x Skullsnatcher
4x Chittering Rats
2x Marrow-Gnawer
2x Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3x Throat Slitter
1x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4x AEther Vial
3x Infliltration Lens
4x Thoughtseize
4x Go for the Throat
Lands
17x Swamp
4x Swarmyard
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Here's my deck. I swapped Ravenous Rats out for Rotting Rats. I kinda like the option of playing a Rav Rats from my graveyard. Now that I'm thinking about it, can you ninjitsu out something that was Unearthed without it leaving play or does it just go bye-bye? I'm also using Marrow-Gnawer, mostly because I have 2 and I like him. He does give all rats a form of evasion and can swarm the field with tokens that can be used to put my ninjas into play.
What do you guys think?
WBTokensWB
Personally I don't really consider Snapcaster Mage as an Ninja enabler, I have him in my deck because he is just too strong to ignore when you are playing a sufficient number of instant/sorcery spells. I usually play 2-3 Snappy in my deck because after taking into account other Ninja enablers and the Ninjas themselves, there are barely any space left in the deck for non-creature spells, also Snappy's effectiveness is diminished with lesser sorceries and instants, thus finding the balance is critical here.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W