You can always run silence as a sort of counter for hypergenesis. Cast it in response to their cascade trigger and they won't be able to cast the free spell.
This is sort of martyr-blade type deck my friend has been looking at--not his exact list though, more of what I remember of it.
Like I said, the Planeswalker+Ghostly Prison is not great. They can ignore the Prison and just take down the Walker. Of the White walkers I would want in the deck, Ajani V and Elspeth (either) would be the only ones as they either make blockers or tap/kill creatures. That's why I only play the 1 in the sb. I would hate to rely on him.
Everyone bring their ideas on beating 12 post so we can consolidate and attack
Mono White:
Hokori, Dust Drinker - not sure, but keeping lands tapped seems it would slow them down.
Quicksilver Fountain - Probably only good w/ UW version.
Mirran Crusader - Maybe take out the defense and go straight beatface?
Aven Mindcensor - Stops the searching/beater
Blue/White
Spreading Seas - obv
Meddling Mage - naming their beaters (this actually might be good md)
Black/White
Castigate/Thoughseize - obv
Hide//Seek - taking out their troublesome beaters (emrakul/titan)
Red/White
Ajani Vengeant - tapping lands/big sticks until you blow them all up
Boom//Bust - l.d.
Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon - obv
Green/White
Gaddok Teeg - stop the Gifts/X Spells
Plow Under - Psuedo Time Walk
Acidic Slime - could be ok
Metamorph and Image (might me md material) seem like nice tech. Copy their Titan and grab two lands or copy a eldrazi. Might have to try that out. Nice tech mantxi.
Problem with Ensaring Bridge is they play the Eldrazi w/ Vindicate. I could stop it until they get to that point maybe.
Adding to the hate list for the primer.
What do you guys think of adding in either Meddling Mage, Tidehollow Sculler, of Image/Metamorph to the md?
I really don't like the Blood Moon idea as it turns 10 of my lands into Mountains and I could get mana screwed on white.
You're only running Blood Moon to deal with 12post, so it really doesn't matter if you're low on mana - They're completely lacking it. I also would suggest running fewer nonbasics. Emeria and Sacred Foundry are enough, aren't they?
@ NavyJoe Proclamation of Rebirth + Martyr of Sands is a good engine to force the overextend into a Wrath. Would beat ghostly prison in here, I think. Also, Reveillark is great for all of your creatures, to similar effect.
Proclamation is a horrible card in this deck. I only have 1 creature that it works on. Why pay 6 on T7 to bring him back when most likely I'm getting him back for free cause of Emeria. And Ghostly Prison is a HOUSE! It does two things. Prevents them from playing beaters if they want to attack (bonus). Or prevents them from attacking if they want a denser threat field (bonus). If you get 2 or even 3 in play, that's a wrap vs most decks. Top that with Magus and your opponent will not be doing alot. Now Lark, while cute, does nothing for me at this point in the game. Sun Titan @6 brings back a land to get me to 7 or a Wall or a Martyr if needed. Or a destroyed Journey/O Ring, Ghostly Prison, Staff of Domination. So no it's not great in this deck. You have to build a deck around Lark (i.e. Venser).
So I keep going back to U/W for Venser and tried Meddling Mage md last night. He hosed Dragonstorm hard. Then I played some mono-u deck that played Eye of Nowhere and Boomerangs on a stick and then Temporal Adept and all kinds of bounce. Couldn't get to 4 mana both game :\
Match 1: Zoo
Game 1: I get stuck at 3 mana and he eventually gets past my Prison and Martyr life gain
In: Journey to Nowhere x3
Game 2/3: Go as plan. Lock the early mana up with Prison/Tabernacle effects. DoJ, Sacred Mesa for the win.
Match 2: 5 Color Aggro
Nothing really here, weird deck, he play all the any mana lands and reflecting pool. I win 2/3 on Sacred Mesa and DoJ's.
Match 3: Goblins:
Game 1: He steadily burns me and I dn't see much creatures so I put him on burn
In: 3 Leyline Out: Magus
Game 2: He drops a bunch of Goblins. Prison and DoJ save me this match
In: 3 Magus Out: 2 WSZ and 1 Sun Titan
Match 4: Merfolk
Game 1: Emeria + Solemn + Sacred Mesa = bad times for the.
Game 2: He got 5 lords on on T4? So sick.
Game 3: DoJ and Mesa get me there again.
Match 5: Burn
Too easy. Turn 2 Martyr and bust for 15 life. Then I use Staff to gain a few life a turn. Game 2 sawme open with a Leyline
Match 6: Zoo
Game 1/2 goes as they should with a T3 Prison followed by a DoJ and Mesa gets me there.
Match 7: Hivemind
Game 1: He starts with a cloudpost, so I know i have to go aggro. He plays a T4 Hivemind and gets me.
In: 3 Spreading Seas 3 Aven Mindcensor
Game 2: He gets mana screwed thanks to me
Game 3: He goes of T4 again.
I lose so hard to Combo. I need a way around that
Well, Angel's Grace can produce a pretty humorous Hivemind loss.
Absolutely love this deck. Doesn't seem to flop to much anything. So far I've wrecked RDW, Treehouse and Elves with it. In fact, I even posted a video...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
I really like this deck, but found that the 12 post decks on cockatrice just stomped all over it. So, I thought about a few reasonable and subtle solutions, like Brittle Effigy for Eldrazi and Magus of the Moat for everything except Emrakul. Then I decided to screw it and just add cloudposts to the deck.
What has surprised me is that the land base actually seems to work. Yeah, I've been overjoyed with topdecked plains, but by and large the curve has been non-awkward. Well, Expedition Map complicates things (That tart...), but it sticks around, and I've found that dropping posts once you've stabilized the board and have a few plains out is a perfectly viable strategy, especially for more aggressive decks. This probably hasn't solved the issue of losing to 12post, but it does at least give the possibility of racing them, as well as answers to all of their beaters that aren't Emrakul (Which is why I might go back to the Brittle Effigy idea). Still, this makes the "sit and put lands down" strategy of MWC we all love so much far more threatening, and it does so largely without additional mana costs.
Upon writing this out, I realize that I should probably replace Rule of Law with Meddling Mage and get a fetchland package going so that Primeval Titan can be stopped before everything is goddamn ruined. Lapse of Certainty makes me smile, and against Hivemind and Dragonstorm it probably means a victory, but there are a lot of good sideboard cards and I'm not sure I can keep insisting it makes the cut.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Was able to get more time testing in with the deck, and so far it's failed to disappoint. The two rounds I played that gave me the most trouble were Jund and 4cc. I actually won both, but only just barely. I brought in Leyline of Sanctity for both, and they both worked well. I almost thought about bringing in Rule of Law against Jund to shut off Cascade, but couldn't find the room. Sideboarding is still hard for me here.
On another completely relevant note, can we call this deck Parfait?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Well Parfait used Land Tax and Scroll Rack to gain a ton of card advantage. We don't have that...lol. I call it Grindhouse. Cause each game is most likely a grind. lol
Glad you having success Wolfwood, can we see your list?
EDIT:
Just watched your video. 1. Cut the Scrying Sheets engine. Hurts Emeria's engine. 2. Add in fetchlands if you don't have any. Turn 6 Titan grabbing a Fetchland back will often get you to 7 for Emeria.
I'm using the Scrying Sheets engine because I don't have my Staff of Dominations yet. I might have spent just a little more money than my wife knows I did building this and RUG/Bant Pod for Standard. Anyway, hopefully next week I'll have my W/x fetches, and maybe a Sacred Foundry or two, as I really like the Blood Moon plays.
I'm at work (working, of course) so my numbers may be a tad fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure this is the exact list...
Hello everyone, loving the discussion so far, and as someone who played Parfait in Vintage and Quinn in Legacy I feel that I have to start my Modern journey with Grindhouse.
One card that I have been testing lately that has been an absolute house with the deck is Survival Cache. A turn two Martyr pop and a turn three Cache is not only pretty much unanswerable by the current crop of Zoo decks, but also adds in some insurmountable card advantage. And lets not forget that the card is pretty much guaranteed to be "on" in the control mirrors and combined with Wall of Omens makes us draw as many cards as the blue decks. I highly recommend that you guys try it out, cause with the small red or blue splash for 12-post hate, our only real downfall is getting out controlled by the dedicated control decks.
One other question: Has anyone tried Serra Ascendant yet? With the turn two martyr she is swinging in for the beats that very turn.
Forgot about Survival Cache, that was used in Emeria Control in Standard last year. Granted... that was hardly a real deck... that I play I may slap a couple in the board to bring in against red decks, could be fun.
As for Ascendant, I don't like it. Changes the feel of the deck and unless conditions are met, she's just a 1/1.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
or you could just bring a copy of the ban list
Everyone bring their ideas on beating 12 post so we can consolidate and attack
Mono White:
Hokori, Dust Drinker - not sure, but keeping lands tapped seems it would slow them down.
Quicksilver Fountain - Probably only good w/ UW version.
Mirran Crusader - Maybe take out the defense and go straight beatface?
Aven Mindcensor - Stops the searching/beater
Blue/White
Spreading Seas - obv
Meddling Mage - naming their beaters (this actually might be good md)
Black/White
Castigate/Thoughseize - obv
Hide//Seek - taking out their troublesome beaters (emrakul/titan)
Red/White
Ajani Vengeant - tapping lands/big sticks until you blow them all up
Boom//Bust - l.d.
Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon - obv
Green/White
Gaddok Teeg - stop the Gifts/X Spells
Plow Under - Psuedo Time Walk
Acidic Slime - could be ok
Artifact/Lands
Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge - obv
Any other suggestions?
PS Working on a primer today.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Problem with Ensaring Bridge is they play the Eldrazi w/ Vindicate. I could stop it until they get to that point maybe.
Adding to the hate list for the primer.
What do you guys think of adding in either Meddling Mage, Tidehollow Sculler, of Image/Metamorph to the md?
I really don't like the Blood Moon idea as it turns 10 of my lands into Mountains and I could get mana screwed on white.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Proclamation of Rebirth + Martyr of Sands is a good engine to force the overextend into a Wrath. Would beat ghostly prison in here, I think. Also, Reveillark is great for all of your creatures, to similar effect.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
What about Momentary Blink. Or do you think Venser is strictly better.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Well, Angel's Grace can produce a pretty humorous Hivemind loss.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Wall of Omens
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Non-creatures
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
2 Day of Judgment
2 Wrath of God
1 Karn Liberated
4 Expedition Map
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
2 Eye of Ugin
12 Plains
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Rule of Law
1 Gideon Jura
2 Lapse of Certainty
What has surprised me is that the land base actually seems to work. Yeah, I've been overjoyed with topdecked plains, but by and large the curve has been non-awkward. Well, Expedition Map complicates things (That tart...), but it sticks around, and I've found that dropping posts once you've stabilized the board and have a few plains out is a perfectly viable strategy, especially for more aggressive decks. This probably hasn't solved the issue of losing to 12post, but it does at least give the possibility of racing them, as well as answers to all of their beaters that aren't Emrakul (Which is why I might go back to the Brittle Effigy idea). Still, this makes the "sit and put lands down" strategy of MWC we all love so much far more threatening, and it does so largely without additional mana costs.
Upon writing this out, I realize that I should probably replace Rule of Law with Meddling Mage and get a fetchland package going so that Primeval Titan can be stopped before everything is goddamn ruined. Lapse of Certainty makes me smile, and against Hivemind and Dragonstorm it probably means a victory, but there are a lot of good sideboard cards and I'm not sure I can keep insisting it makes the cut.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Or is T5 too late to stop Hivemind/Dragonstorm? I haven't played a game of modern/extended/etc, so please forgive my ignorance.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
On another completely relevant note, can we call this deck Parfait?
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Glad you having success Wolfwood, can we see your list?
EDIT:
Just watched your video. 1. Cut the Scrying Sheets engine. Hurts Emeria's engine. 2. Add in fetchlands if you don't have any. Turn 6 Titan grabbing a Fetchland back will often get you to 7 for Emeria.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I'm at work (working, of course) so my numbers may be a tad fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure this is the exact list...
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
3 Scrying Sheets
2 Tectonic Edge
17 Snow-Covered Plains
Creatures: 18
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Omens
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Sacred Mesa
2 Wrath of God
2 Day of Judgment
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rule of Law
3 Disenchant
2 Pthing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Journey to Nowhere
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
One card that I have been testing lately that has been an absolute house with the deck is Survival Cache. A turn two Martyr pop and a turn three Cache is not only pretty much unanswerable by the current crop of Zoo decks, but also adds in some insurmountable card advantage. And lets not forget that the card is pretty much guaranteed to be "on" in the control mirrors and combined with Wall of Omens makes us draw as many cards as the blue decks. I highly recommend that you guys try it out, cause with the small red or blue splash for 12-post hate, our only real downfall is getting out controlled by the dedicated control decks.
One other question: Has anyone tried Serra Ascendant yet? With the turn two martyr she is swinging in for the beats that very turn.
As for Ascendant, I don't like it. Changes the feel of the deck and unless conditions are met, she's just a 1/1.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290