Nice to know that the hottest card combo right now can fit in the board (Chalice + SSG). I haven't played the deck so I'm just theory crafting but I guess a lower enchantment count for fast decks such as Zoo on G@ & G3 wouldn't hurt so much. By then, Leyline could probably be sided out.
Definitely wasn't trying to be groundbreaking. The deck is so off the radar of most players that we needed to start basic before going any deeper. If there's enough interest from readers we could go further, but there's such a large segment of the Modern community that barely knows about the deck; they need a more high-level introduction.
That said, I think I'm increasingly sold on moving away from Ensnaring Bridge. This deck doesn't seem like the place for it: too many lands, too many high-curve cards, and a few bombs you need to wait until really late to cast (or can't discard). This lets too many little dudes in Infect and Affinity through the gaps.
Definitely wasn't trying to be groundbreaking. The deck is so off the radar of most players that we needed to start basic before going any deeper. If there's enough interest from readers we could go further, but there's such a large segment of the Modern community that barely knows about the deck; they need a more high-level introduction.
That said, I think I'm increasingly sold on moving away from Ensnaring Bridge. This deck doesn't seem like the place for it: too many lands, too many high-curve cards, and a few bombs you need to wait until really late to cast (or can't discard). This lets too many little dudes in Infect and Affinity through the gaps.
Its great that the article put the deck out there.
One of the issues about deck creation is that it contains some great decks with some competitive potential, like Ideal, Death Cloud, Pillow-Fort, Eggs, RW lockdown (another recent SCG winning deck), and one time decks that have gone on like Lantern, Amulet etc., but also a huge number of "my first vampire decks" that often obscure the wood from the trees.
I think Bridge is a bit of a sticking plaster, but if the deck is built right it can work.
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Sphere of resistance is Legacy legal, not Modern. I guess you mean Sphere of Safety?
Mistveil Plains stops you being decked. Infinite life is not the problem, they can be decked easily, its the mega life gain Martyr Proc deck that that also runs Ghostlies etc that is an an issue- because those decks also run Mistveil Plains and thus the game goes 0-0 as Proc forcasting is not a spell and can't be Dovescaped. m
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Has anyone else tried Sunscour or Shining Shoal? They turn expensive cards that you can't cast or are dead into early game answers.
I've played a few rounds with them and it definitely has helped against the faster decks. Being able to wrath on turn 2 or 3 while still being able to cast a spell has been pretty strong. It's not great against remand/control decks but those don't seem to be big right now.
Yes.
Shoal is great for infect, acting like a fog or critterkill (being wary of hexproof). Its the nuts vs Zoo, but you have to be careful. I use it in boards over main, where 4 Ghostly, 4 Runed and a couple of Supp fields and t0 Leyines were enough for me.
I plumped for fog effects in the end, but shoal worked well enough.
Sunscour I was unimpressed by, too much effort .... that was pre-Eldrazi though.
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Is Ensnaring Bridge really that bad in the Eldrazi era? I don't play MTG that much nowadays so I haven't been testing as extensively, but I grinded this deck since 2014 and always found Bridge to be one of the most important cards. In the abstract, I could see how the current metagame would make Bridge worse, but I really don't have an evidence to say anything conclusive.
I'd be interested to see some tourney reports for those playing without Bridge.
If bridge is good depends on a few things, part of which is how empty you can make your hand. I love it but there are times when its just not great. I also run it in an 8rack deck and it can win games on its own there. Considering how slow our curve is, lots of 3cc and up, bridge is less than ghostly prison.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
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Is Ensnaring Bridge really that bad in the Eldrazi era? I don't play MTG that much nowadays so I haven't been testing as extensively, but I grinded this deck since 2014 and always found Bridge to be one of the most important cards. In the abstract, I could see how the current metagame would make Bridge worse, but I really don't have an evidence to say anything conclusive.
I'd be interested to see some tourney reports for those playing without Bridge.
Bridge is quite strong in the Eldrazi era... just not in this particular deck. Decks like 8Rack, Lantern Control, RW Lockdown, and other Bridge naturals can empty their hand quickly off a low curve, a low land-count, and/or pitch effects (e.g. Liliana in 8Rack or SSG in RW Lockdown). Ideal runs 25 lands with both a high curve (including competing 3 CMC permanents and a bunch of more expensive stuff), along with cards we can't just pitch or get rid of like Form, Ideals themselves, Sphere, etc. This makes most Ideal decks a very poor fit for Bridge, at least in my own testing.
I've found bridge in enduring ideal to be decent but not great. Other decks can use the card much more effectively. On the other hand bridge is an incredibly powerful card so even if it's not hitting it's full potential it can still win games. It usually doesn't block 1 power creatures and sometimes doesn't block 2 power creatures but given the number of big creatures out there it can stall hard enough for me to hit a better prison piece. Currently I'm using it alongside sunscour and it often allows me to empty my hand quickly enough to stall for a while but drawing cards after often opens me to attacks. Without sunscour bridge would be too slow in most cases.
I agree with ktkenshinx enduring ideal has too many cards in hand to use it effectively in every matchup but it can still be an effective sideboard card or stall tactic.
I've been playing B/W for lingering souls and bitter blossom and the interaction between phyrexian unlife and bitter blossom is pretty nice. I've won a lot of games without needing ideal. Phyrexian Arena is a nice source of card advantage. Has anyone else experimented with the black splash recently?
You will all notice the synergy between the cards mentioned above- sunscour and shoal, and Mr E. Bridge.
That really is the point- to use Bridge effectively we need a lot of designing with potentially suboptimal options. Thus whilst it is possible to use Bridge, it is rare to see it as a 4 of, unlike 8 rack or Lantern.
As Leyline runners we get to keep our best cards vs Thought-Knot, so v Eldrazi drawing cards like Halo may be enough to get us to 4, where wrath effects are possible.
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I avoid grid.
Grid I feel is a card I want in Legacy Stompy or Stax lists, maybe in lockdown RW landkill lists in Modern or other decks where I need to resolve early spells and can tax their mana throughout the game.
Without that it is not going to do the job.
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Vessel of Volatility
works with Sup field, hits the sweet much needed 2 spot on the curve, counts towards Sphere of Safety.
If it does not get use in Enduring Ideal it could end up in a straight Pillowfort build with Obliterate.
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Hi all. Have been playing the deck for a few weeks now and have been loving it. Have got the last 2 Enduring Ideal in the mail coming.
List currently now is:
Then I've changed my manabase from 23 lands to 26 as I was getting stuck at times, but that costed me my 2x nyx-fleece rams which saved my ass lots of times.
This is what I'm toying with right now.
3 Ghostly Prison
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Runed Halo
1 Detention Sphere
4 Suppression Field
1 Peace of Mind
1 Form of the Dragon
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Dovescape
1 Nevermore
12 Plains
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Monastary Siege
4 Serum Visions
3 Mistveil Plains
1 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Prairie Stream
2 Peer through Depths
I have recorded a few games on XMage for people to look at. I would love to see some other recordings from other people! Please give me some feedback would be great.
The serum visions did some good work with pushing enchantments down the bottom that i did not want except for ideal triggers so that was good. I am only running blue for Monastary Siege (which I had to lean to not play more than one on Khans due to nearly decking myself out) and the serum visions and the detention sphere. Still not sure on the blue splash or do i go with red for blood moon and able to hardcast Form maybe?
Recorded some monowhite version against Esper Control and Restore Balance. Let me know if you would like to see those as well.
Post em!
I always put siege onto draw up to two copies- post Ideal I can remove them and I do have Mistveil Plains too, as do you. I want to try serum visions.
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I am uploading the 4th one now. The other two should be ready in an hour or so. Please go to the channel and look!
If I continue 2 continue with Monastary Siege I will need to run more D Spheres I think. I have actually decked myself twice with the deck due to not being able to remove the sieges. After that I only played one on Khans and any others on Dragons.
Played a friendly paper game against Lantern Control. I thought I would be favoured but didn't win, as he extracted ideal. Even though I had a leyline out he had the one that makes each player mill but oh well. Didn't help I didn't hit any of my suppression fields that would of brought a smile to my face!
One thing I notice on the vids, (apart from the fact that we have slightly different playstyles/lists but rely on pretty much the same key cards in the same matches) is that Peace of Mind really does not work in your list.
Sup field makes it a no-no at the best of times, but when ever you had it down did it ever look like doing anything? Could it gain enough life to be significant? Once Ideal resolved you look golden, I don't think it is worth it. I almost think you would be better with a fog. I guess it is there for discard of key pieces to recycle, but I feel it does not work in your list. The only list I have ever gotten it to work in had zur's weirding, where you could gamble on dropping weirding with POM down, provided you had an Ideal and a couple of cards in hand against certain slow decks.
M Siege is just better at that job and can help protect stuff too.
I like what serum visions did in one of the videos.
Not sure about what looks like a path in your board.
Thanks for the vids......I think we have a reasonable 3col control match if we see t0 leyline, which eludes you consistently sadly.
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UB Tezzerator
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For reference:
http://modernnexus.com/im-a-believer-enduring-ideal-in-modern/
Definitely wasn't trying to be groundbreaking. The deck is so off the radar of most players that we needed to start basic before going any deeper. If there's enough interest from readers we could go further, but there's such a large segment of the Modern community that barely knows about the deck; they need a more high-level introduction.
That said, I think I'm increasingly sold on moving away from Ensnaring Bridge. This deck doesn't seem like the place for it: too many lands, too many high-curve cards, and a few bombs you need to wait until really late to cast (or can't discard). This lets too many little dudes in Infect and Affinity through the gaps.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Its great that the article put the deck out there.
One of the issues about deck creation is that it contains some great decks with some competitive potential, like Ideal, Death Cloud, Pillow-Fort, Eggs, RW lockdown (another recent SCG winning deck), and one time decks that have gone on like Lantern, Amulet etc., but also a huge number of "my first vampire decks" that often obscure the wood from the trees.
I think Bridge is a bit of a sticking plaster, but if the deck is built right it can work.
The standard lock methods, leyline, sphere of resistance, auramancy, and dovescape will stall long enough to mill them turn by turn.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Mistveil Plains stops you being decked. Infinite life is not the problem, they can be decked easily, its the mega life gain Martyr Proc deck that that also runs Ghostlies etc that is an an issue- because those decks also run Mistveil Plains and thus the game goes 0-0 as Proc forcasting is not a spell and can't be Dovescaped. m
I've played a few rounds with them and it definitely has helped against the faster decks. Being able to wrath on turn 2 or 3 while still being able to cast a spell has been pretty strong. It's not great against remand/control decks but those don't seem to be big right now.
Shoal is great for infect, acting like a fog or critterkill (being wary of hexproof). Its the nuts vs Zoo, but you have to be careful. I use it in boards over main, where 4 Ghostly, 4 Runed and a couple of Supp fields and t0 Leyines were enough for me.
I plumped for fog effects in the end, but shoal worked well enough.
Sunscour I was unimpressed by, too much effort .... that was pre-Eldrazi though.
I'd be interested to see some tourney reports for those playing without Bridge.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Bridge is quite strong in the Eldrazi era... just not in this particular deck. Decks like 8Rack, Lantern Control, RW Lockdown, and other Bridge naturals can empty their hand quickly off a low curve, a low land-count, and/or pitch effects (e.g. Liliana in 8Rack or SSG in RW Lockdown). Ideal runs 25 lands with both a high curve (including competing 3 CMC permanents and a bunch of more expensive stuff), along with cards we can't just pitch or get rid of like Form, Ideals themselves, Sphere, etc. This makes most Ideal decks a very poor fit for Bridge, at least in my own testing.
I agree with ktkenshinx enduring ideal has too many cards in hand to use it effectively in every matchup but it can still be an effective sideboard card or stall tactic.
I've been playing B/W for lingering souls and bitter blossom and the interaction between phyrexian unlife and bitter blossom is pretty nice. I've won a lot of games without needing ideal. Phyrexian Arena is a nice source of card advantage. Has anyone else experimented with the black splash recently?
That really is the point- to use Bridge effectively we need a lot of designing with potentially suboptimal options. Thus whilst it is possible to use Bridge, it is rare to see it as a 4 of, unlike 8 rack or Lantern.
As Leyline runners we get to keep our best cards vs Thought-Knot, so v Eldrazi drawing cards like Halo may be enough to get us to 4, where wrath effects are possible.
Grid I feel is a card I want in Legacy Stompy or Stax lists, maybe in lockdown RW landkill lists in Modern or other decks where I need to resolve early spells and can tax their mana throughout the game.
Without that it is not going to do the job.
works with Sup field, hits the sweet much needed 2 spot on the curve, counts towards Sphere of Safety.
If it does not get use in Enduring Ideal it could end up in a straight Pillowfort build with Obliterate.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
List currently now is:
Then I've changed my manabase from 23 lands to 26 as I was getting stuck at times, but that costed me my 2x nyx-fleece rams which saved my ass lots of times.
This is what I'm toying with right now.
3 Ghostly Prison
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Runed Halo
1 Detention Sphere
4 Suppression Field
1 Peace of Mind
1 Form of the Dragon
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Dovescape
1 Nevermore
12 Plains
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Monastary Siege
4 Serum Visions
3 Mistveil Plains
1 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Prairie Stream
2 Peer through Depths
I have recorded a few games on XMage for people to look at. I would love to see some other recordings from other people! Please give me some feedback would be great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kwg0CZWrQk - Grixis Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52KdG97PYBw - Affinity
Cheers.
Why only 3 Ghostlies- surely these are key...?
Had not thought of that...
I suspect pillow-fort will make it work better, but you never know..
Recorded some monowhite version against Esper Control and Restore Balance. Let me know if you would like to see those as well.
I always put siege onto draw up to two copies- post Ideal I can remove them and I do have Mistveil Plains too, as do you. I want to try serum visions.
If I continue 2 continue with Monastary Siege I will need to run more D Spheres I think. I have actually decked myself twice with the deck due to not being able to remove the sieges. After that I only played one on Khans and any others on Dragons.
Played a friendly paper game against Lantern Control. I thought I would be favoured but didn't win, as he extracted ideal. Even though I had a leyline out he had the one that makes each player mill but oh well. Didn't help I didn't hit any of my suppression fields that would of brought a smile to my face!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1CwkAb9PYF_e2UKCA9wISA
Sup field makes it a no-no at the best of times, but when ever you had it down did it ever look like doing anything? Could it gain enough life to be significant? Once Ideal resolved you look golden, I don't think it is worth it. I almost think you would be better with a fog. I guess it is there for discard of key pieces to recycle, but I feel it does not work in your list. The only list I have ever gotten it to work in had zur's weirding, where you could gamble on dropping weirding with POM down, provided you had an Ideal and a couple of cards in hand against certain slow decks.
M Siege is just better at that job and can help protect stuff too.
I like what serum visions did in one of the videos.
Not sure about what looks like a path in your board.
Thanks for the vids......I think we have a reasonable 3col control match if we see t0 leyline, which eludes you consistently sadly.