Blessed is excellent main deck, I always want 4 Leyline main too.
I quite like Nodes if I run the indestructible God, otherwise I don't like it too much.
Unlife is for me a one or max two of, certainly don't want it in the board....
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Honestly I have been playing around with the list a lot. I never really wanted an enchantment that became "if this permanent leaves the battlefield, you lose the game", and it was only really useful in doing Unlife -> Form of the Dragon. I wished I didn't have it in most games that I've drawn it, so I moved it to the board. If Ideal resolves, going straight for Form of the Dragon or getting a different relevant lock piece usually ties Game 1 together. The advantage of playing mostly hard to interact with permanents game 1 felt less when I would draw Unlife and needing it to be something else. I swapped it for a Nevermore in the board and it has done well for me at least, turning off Chords, Abrupt Decay, or the minimal predictable hate from main decks. It can also call Karn or O-Stone on the play against Tron, which can falter them a little bit.
I'll have to try Blessed Alliance, but game 1 Leyline is so good so I may swap it for something else.
Journey is at least something for Thalias which I've liked. I kind of want to take out the Chalices but they do make the burn and infect matchups pretty insane. I thought they might be good in the Grixis Delver matchup, but K-Command breaks it and Leyline already turns off a lot of their 1 mana spells.
Blue splash didn't feel worth it, Detention Sphere rarely double exiled and Verdict's uncounterability hasn't mattered much. Wrath does have the anti regen upside for Golgari Charm and Ezuri, and I already felt stretched as white with 7-8 colorless lands. I did lose a game tonight because of Ghost Quarter not giving WW for Runed Halo on a low mull. I didn't like the ETB tapped chance of Glacial Fortress, and the life loss wasn't worth it for the splash. Spreading Sea's was a draw for the blue splash, but Nature's Claim breaks it in the Tron matchup which is mostly what I wanted it for.
Dovescape is in the sideboard because it locks out any kind of sideboard interaction for the most part. Without playing multiple do nothing enchantments like 2x Greater Auramancy, it comes down and locks out any number of non creature answers. At that point, chaining Nevermore's on any creature such as Reclamation Sage or on Abrupt Decay locks most players out of being able to break any enchantments post board. I hated drawing it game 1 when a lot of decks lose to just fetching Leyline -> Form of the Dragon, so I've been bringing it in against decks like Tron (O-Stone, Ugin, Karn, Nature's Claim), Abzan (Maelstrom Pulse, Anguished Unmaking, Nature's Claim, Seal of Primordium, other random 1 of sideboard enchantment hate), or Esper Control (Esper Charm, Cryptic, Countersquall, chaining counters on the Epic copies.) It is necessary to lock against flexible sideboards, but less useful against say Affinity game 1 where it just completely eats a draw. I've had enough problems just drawing Form of the Dragon early in games.
Went 2-1 tonight, beating Kiki-Chord, loss to Grixis Delver (what I feel is a good matchup but g3 Ghost Quarter can't cast Runed Halo on a mull to "5" (Form in hand), beating Sultai Chord. Dodged the Tron player in this smallish event haha
I want to change my list some more but I'm not sure where to start. I wish I could cut Ghost Quarter
All good points. One thing, with Surgical Extraction, aren't most of our removal spells exiles? Or are we hoping to nab instant or spells there? Karn and things like this will never be in the graveyard before we die, so wondering exactly what you were hoping for with this, or was this more "just whatever is in the graveyard so I can see his deck and use nevermore" idea?
Hi,
So I went casuals last week with different decks to test my paper EI deck (withoit runed halo, no stock in our area for 3 weeks already):
Against RDW:
Leyline gives you that 30-40% advantage due to dead targeting effects
Against mono green tron tooth and nail:
Bad matchup(30-40%), usually does turn 4-5 tooth and nail xenagos and emrakul, but prior, opponent have enough mana to bypass taxing effects.
Against affinity:
I really don't have stony silence as i thought prison effects is enough. So it does. If i survive turn 4-5, i drop sphere of safety then he auto scoops. If not, you are just dead to flying threats. Leyline has no use here.
Against valakut titanshift:
Folds to leyline without his nature's claim. If you nevermore his scapeshift, it adds more headache on his part. I just do 2 copies of leyline and a greater auramancy and he just scoops. I have journey and obli ring for his primeval titans.
Against BW tokens:
Wrath effects are good. But they have midrange clock. Hand disruptions are dead due to leyline. Without wear//tear or erase, they barely make it late game. Watch out for LOTV.
Against bant eldrazi:
Porphyry is good here since they are midrange. Turn 0 leyline is very good against a T3 TKS. Journey answers his reality smashers. Suppression field taxes his displacers aand fetches (so good).
Against MBC:
Folds to leyline. Too much targetting effects for his build.
So far this deck is performing well for me. I will side grafdigger cage for coco chord elves next week with the local tournament.
Anybody have experience with running Simian Spirit Guide and Chalice of the Void in the maindeck? The deck plays very few 1 drops so they could easily be removed for Chalice. Simian Spirit Guide allows for turn 1 Chalice or turn 1 Suppression Field.
Before enduring ideal, i was running GW enchantress. Even then, Tron is a very hard matchup since we can't interact immediately with their wincons unless you have an immediate o-ring or so. I guess that is the advantage tron has in the late game. And things get worse via turn 3 karn.
I keep getting ***** on by tron and blue control decks, I don't know what I am gonna do, it is pathetic how easily I am dispatched by them.
If you have the blue splash then Bribery from the board is very good against them, mixed in with Ghost Quarter (main) /Spreading Seas (also from the board) to disrupt their mana it works pretty well. It is a lot of slots to dedicate to the deck, though- Bribery is garbage otherwise, but it does them if they run the big dudes.. Another thing is to use Starfield of Nyx, which gives "instawin" often- resolve and beat.
Game 1 is normally unwinnable.
If you are red splash then Crumble to Dust and Blood Moon/Nevermore boards might do the trick, but it is a lot of slots. Obliterate is decent too, and again SFN is strong as the ability to fetch/lay the card and hoarde unexpectedly is strong.
Pithing Needle is ok too, but you need to look at 7-9 boardable cards.
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I think I have to try to do some nevermore action and I am starting to not like Unlife as well. You are right, it either is something you don't want in your hand ever, or something that makes you instantly die when removed. Other locks, like an additional safety or some nevermores would likely be better. Gonna start testing alternatives without dove and without unlife
Hi, this past weekend, i went to a local small tourney:
R1 vs. Naya burn (0-2)
He was just too fast without me having draw any leylines.
Post board, too many skullcracks and leyline of punishment and no leylines again.
R2 vs. MBC infect (0-2)
Lost game 1 due to his main surgical extraction. And he beatdown my heliod with his phyrexian crusader. If i had runed halo, i could have prevented death.
Lost most of my wincon due to extirpate and sadistic sacrament effects.
R3 vs. Mono green tron
G1: Well, turn 6 ugin really kills us.
G2 went really fast with turn 3 karn.
R4 vs. mono green tooth and nail tron (1-2)
G1: was able to resolve EI and conceded on turn 5.
G2: went slow but he was able to resolve tooth and nail with blightsteel colossus and xenagos. I don't have any spot removals for blightsteel.
G2: i resolved EI and played dovescape but he went around it and assembled natural tron and played ulamog, TIG and destroyrd my dovescape. Next turn's attack triggered annihilator my permanents and all og my hopes.
I am so devasted as i have no runed halo.
I'm running 24 lands but seemed to choke on mana sometimes.
And that luck factor for leyline could be better when it comes to black and red color matchups.
I really hate tron as it bypasses all our taxing effects.
The deck is unplayable without 4 Leyline X Suppression Field (3/4) and 4 Runed Halo main- it is not like a burn deck that cannot afford Eidolons where they can use an alternate that does the job, there is no alternate to any of these cards. It is not unusual to see Extraction, but Extirpate and Sacrament effects are very bad in the format in general. The only solution to Extraction is to put the card back into the library with your Mistveil land, but only if you have the mana as it is an activated ability and conflicts with S field.
Burn should be on of the easier matchups- S-Field/Halo/Leyline do a lot of work, Unlife is really good at buying time.
Regarding tron, I stand by my comments- mucking about with the odd Blood Moon/Nevermore/Needle and expecting it to make a difference is too optimistic- 7/8/9 cards minimum from the board, and you need to include "nail em" cards in that count like Bribery (which is a much better wincon than Ideal) and Crumble To Dust. Extractions of your own work well if you run Ghost Quarter. If you run neither of these then you would need a board of 13/14/15 to stand a chance if you are hoping to secure the game with Nevermore/Needle et al.
A good alternate wincon for Jund/K etc. in case of emergencies is a single board card of Karma. That would also help vs mono-b decks.
#It sounds like lots of off the radar decks are about in your meta.
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It was badluck not being to draw any leyline of sanctity for burn in 2 games after 1 mulligan each.
Also, the MBC has turn 1 thoughtseize and auto surgical extraction to remove enduring ideal. I wish this deck have some consistent nut draws for turn 1.
I'm running 24 lands, with 3 scry lands, 2 mistveils. I was running 22 lands before but i seem to always get stuck on 2 lands that's why i shifted to 24 lands.
One elf per one white mana. That isn't so bad if you already have taxing up. Usually, maybe only 5 attackers can get in, and if you have enough mana, that is typically enough.
Thanks for that. I'm only using story circle as experiment. Can't use it sometimes with bant eldrazi. Uhm, do we really need flagstones to help deck thinning? Or should I stick with 6 scry lands?
I run them to grab Mistveil Plains, I can't tell you how many times I have drawn into Dragon without a way to play it. Without the discard, cycle ability, you can get pretty hosed. For me, it isn't about thinning it is about options. Sometimes I will even Ghost quarters my own flagstone just for thinning and getting my Mistveil out.
It was badluck not being to draw any leyline of sanctity for burn in 2 games after 1 mulligan each.
Also, the MBC has turn 1 thoughtseize and auto surgical extraction to remove enduring ideal. I wish this deck have some consistent nut draws for turn 1.
I'm running 24 lands, with 3 scry lands, 2 mistveils. I was running 22 lands before but i seem to always get stuck on 2 lands that's why i shifted to 24 lands.
I think 4-maybe 5 scry lands is the way to go, honestly, with 2 Mistveil......, and 24-5 lands is about right. Boseiju is a board card too, and should not be part of the 24 main- any extra lands can work well as Ghost Quarters adding to the 9-11 cards you bring in V Tron.......
Flagstones are only really useful for fetching Mistveil.
As for Story Circle- it is a no-no with Suppression field, which I feel should be run.
On discard into the bin for Mistveil to put back in or Starfield to reanimate - your options are- Monastery Siege in U, or Faithless Looting type effects in Red.
Elves is a tough match as g2 they can wipe the board and you need a Dovescape lock in place to stop it (Fracturing Gust).
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HI guys, I've been in and out of this thread for a while now. I've build a pretty "stock" version of the deck that I've done ok with, but I'm looking to take it to the next level and do much better. Perhaps take it to a GP and see how I do there. Here is the list and some problems I've been running into:
Two FNMs ago I went 2-2, but I lost my notes from that night. I don't remember anything from it.
Results from last FNM:
Round 1 Jeskai Delver (W 2-1)
Game 1 - Had two opening Leylines, so all of his Bolts were dead and paths were dead. I didn't draw an ideal, but I drew a Starfield. I was hesitant, but played it. He ended up pathing and bolting some things. I was able to recover some due to Starfield itself, but I didn't like how all of his removal was unlocked. I was able to win past a Torrential Gearhulk, even though I think Starfield was pretty bad.
Game 2 - Mulliganed to 4 cards and drew a decent hand. Able to Runed Halo on Insectile Abberation, which slowed him down, but he was able to drop a pyromancer that I couldn't handle.
Game 3 - Another Leyline that turned off all of his Bolts. He left in his Path to Exiles due to Starfield, but by this point I had sided it out. I won due to Heliod pumping out creatures.
Round 2 Eldrozi Tron (W 2-0)
Game 1 - I was worried when I saw a tron land plus expedition map, but luckily he was a creature based deck and couldn't handle Porphyry Nodes. I played my Unlife and he asked "How much does Lightning Storm cost?" casting a Chalice for X=3. That would normally hurt me, but I was able to get around with Runed Halo and Nodes. I hit an Ideal and got Greater Auramancy so that his Ulamog's could exile anything.
Game 2 - Two early Suppression Fields slowed him down. He couldn't crack his map and never found a 3rd Tron piece.
Round 3 Kiki Chord (D 1-1)
Game 1 - Loooong game since I was new to this deck and he was new to Kiki Chord. So when we were tutoring for pieces, we thought for quite a bit. I landed an Ideal early on, but he had a Pridemage and Eternal Witness to keep bringing it back and destroying the enchantments I was tutoring for. He also dropped a Nahiri to exile some of them so I couldn't Mistviel Plains them and re-search for them. He also had a reclamation Sage. Somehow (I don't remember how...I think Suppression Field made it difficult for him to use his Nahiri and Pridemage) I was able to win Game 1.
Game 2 - He was able to disrupt me before I could really get on the board. Same story as Game 1 but He had two Nahiri's to exile a lot of my enchantments.
Game 3 - We had 2 minutes left before time and I just defended myself from the Combo. Runed Halo on Restoration Angel and a Ghostly Prison locked up the Draw.
Round 4 Grixis Delver (L 1-2)
Game 1 - Opening Leyline sealed the deal early on.
Game 2 - I mulliganed to 6 and kept a one lander. Never hit the 2nd one. He beat me with Insectile Abberation.
Game 3 - Mulliganed to 6 again. Had 3 lands, Ideal, Heliod and Nodes. The Nodes bought some time but he didn't play any more creatures into it. So once it dies, I had no defense. I flooded out and he beat me with Pyromancer tokens.
Overall a decent night. Round 3 seemed like a good matchup but we were both just pretty slow. Round 4 seems like an easy matchup but I just got screwed/flooded. But that's Magic I suppose. Anyways, here are some issues with the deck I have:
-the deck always feels so tight on mana. Every turn, you can only play one thing, so you have to make sure it is the right thing. If it's not, then you're screwed.
-mana issues: I know 15 basic plains seems awesome, but still, Mistveil Plains comes in tapped, and Nykthos and Calciform only perform generic mana for a while. So a turn 2 runed halo is not guaranteed even though it is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, Nykthos is Legendary, so I am only running 3... should it be 4? Some people suggest running Scry Lands but I think that just adds more ETB tapped lands to an already slow deck.
-Tron: Eldrazi Tron seems like an ok match since it is creature based, but what about regular Tron? Is there any hope?
-Counterspells: I had a Boseiju Main deck, but that added Mana issues by coming into play tapped and needing 2 life for generic mana. Ouch. Other help against Counters?
-My SB: Admittedly it's a wreck. 4 Stony Silence seems like too much against Affinity. I mean, Suppression Field hits them pretty good anyway. Maybe I just need two in to SB? Also, the 3 Aura of Silence seems like a lot. I don't know what they really defend against...Maybe just 2 are needed. The 4 Nevermore are great though. What could replace a couple Stony Silences and 1 Aura of Silence? Would Path to Exile help out that much? It seems obvious, but I really want the "Gimmick Factor" of literally everything in here being a white enchantment. Perhaps the SB changes should be -2 Stony Silences - 1 Aura of Silence + 3 Journey to Nowhere. Can I fit a Boseiju in for Counters?
-Starfield: I like having a Main Deck alternate win con, especially if I win Game 1 with Heliod or Starfield. But I almost lost to Jeskai Delver by turning on all of his creature removal. Should I just have 2 Heliods? Are there other alternate win cons?
Thanks for the input. Hoping to hear back from more experienced players with the deck to help with these finer points. Have there been good recent results with the deck? Did it do well at SCG Regionals?
I got away from nodes entirely myself. It was a nice one drop, but also very slow and gives my opponent to much flexibility. I focused more on taxing blasting them with Blessed Alliance for anything that gets through. I found I really hated Greater Auramancy, it was a "win while winning" kind of card. Something like nevermore ended up being a better way to dodge removal. Granted, some green decks have so many different enchant removals that never more loses some effect, so a matter of taste I guess, but nevermore seems more flexible...can name ANYTHING! And of course, it doesn't protect from the wrath removals that green has either, so ya, nevermore all the way for me. I still only have 1 in my main deck, but reconsidering it...but it costs so much and it is hard to read the board that I don't want more than 2 on the maindeck. Aura of silence is great. I can't tell you how many times I have had to blow up my own enchantment just to keep it from getting exiled. I mean, once form of dragon is gone for me, I have no alternative win cons, so you might not have the same worry, but great against affinity and other "poor mans infect" decks that stack on the cheap enchants for a turn 4-5 win...though taxing usually gets you there too. I have only 1 stoney silence in there. It is more conditional kind of card. Sometimes, green can make so much mana there is no amount of taxing you can do to save you. In this, late game with shrine, even with some fields out, works with it. You only need one, but it might be yet another case of win while winning, but I have used it to good effect. Being that I have to wait for dragon, I need more ways to dodge sometimes, yall can go for the kill more than I can. I took dove and unlife out. It is much stronger on the draw now, and I feel much safer on the play. Drawing or getting dealt a dove early on is basically a wasted draw, and as a "play exactly the right card" kind of deck, that was basically intolerable. I have them on sides for decks that have lots of enchant removal, or some funny way to do damage that is hard to prevent. I have my Leyline's on the sideboard as well, I don't encounter as much burn as yall seem to, I get a lot of the counterspell decks, and lines give me nothing there....so one of those local meta adjustments. You might also try out wall of omen as a direct replacement for nodes. It's still just a 2 drop, gives you a defender hopeful and a replacement card. Sure, if gives the burn something to target, but hell, better than your face! I am only running 4 scry lands, and I swear to god I am about to stop slashing blue cause I can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to cast a critical spell cause of mana screw. Hell, I had to put one basic blue land in there so I could ghost quarter myself to get one out. Also, that is a good tactic if you don't really need your Ghost and want colored land, just murder your flagstone...you get the basic land cause of the quarters ability AND the Mistveil cause of the flag ability...woot.
Shrine is such a *****. I only have 3 and several times I have gotten 3 on the draw...ugh. It is so good and so terrible at the same time. Luckily, once you hit the 4 devotion sweet spot, the new legendary rules work to your favor. 1 on in play and one in your hand is 4 mana, not shabby. I ditched my Calciform Pools awhile ago, I can't tell how how much I hate colorless mana. 3 Mistveil also seems...like...a lot. I hate drawing those things, 2 at most, to slow, bad on the draw...particularly since you aren't going flagstones...they are good...you want them...
Also, I love oblivion rings as much as the next guy, but I ended up throwing in some journey to nowhere's as well. I didn't want the untaxing that path brings, but sometimes orings just to damn slow. Nice to have a bit of options.
Anyway take that for what its worth, we have tuned ours a bit differently, you likely have more flexibility in certain ways that I do because you can be more aggressive, mine is more focus on REALLY locking it down, which makes me pretty weak against other legit control decks...basically get screwed by them.
I must admit I found GA to be the MVP- simply beating removal heavy BG-X decks without it was way too much of an ask. Pools I never run- conflict with SF for one thing, colorless being another.
I would split O ring into Oring and Blinding light (the version that only does enemy permanents for avoiding Echoing Truth/Maelstrom Pulse)
Ghost quarter is better than the pools for my money, but the Temples are the key to consistency- otherwise the bad draws are too frequent.
On Starfield- simply put, only lay it if it is to your advantage. I like to view it as an Opalescence rather than reanimation tool.
Stony Silence is not there for affinity, it is there for Tron, where it slows it down hopefully enabling you to interfere with its mana permanently or casta big haymaker of some sort.......
Nevermore is OK for nailing certain combo decks, but I feel it is not that strong against most decks-0 maybe the odd copy but as a 4 of it won't seal the game against Tron which is what most people use it for- because Tron has >4 things that can remove Enchantments, a couple of which wipe the board.
Nodes I feel is just personal preference. It is one of a lot of cards in the deck that are very binary, another reason to run 4-5 scrylands...........
I got away from nodes entirely myself. It was a nice one drop, but also very slow and gives my opponent to much flexibility. I focused more on taxing blasting them with Blessed Alliance for anything that gets through.
True, it does provide flexibility to the opponent...Against my Kiki Chord opponent, He just kept playing Wall of Omens into it and was able to keep his important creatures alive. But I think most cases it will cause some tempo loss to the opponent. If they open with a turn one mana dork and we play Nodes, then we are guaranteed to get the mana dork at least. And then they might pause and not play another creature into it on their second turn, trying not make Nodes a 2-for-1. So the way I see it, Nodes is at least a 1-for-1, just like Journey to Nowhere or Path, but it has the potential slow them down or be a 2-for-1 or better if they continually play into it. But on the other hand, they can control which creature will die to some degree, and that is a knock against Nodes. I still like them myself as my Meta has some Zoo/Eldrazi players and Nodes is effective against them. Plus, it doesn't target, so you can kill a Reality Smasher and not discard for it. Minor upside.
I found I really hated Greater Auramancy, it was a "win while winning" kind of card. Something like nevermore ended up being a better way to dodge removal.
I found Auramancy to be great. A lot of decks might have some Maindeck outs and tutoring for this once you hit an ideal seals it up. Plus it isn't a bad card just to throw it down if you happen to draw it, it's not entirely dead like Form of Dragon. I like it as a 1-of. The problem with Nevermore, and this is even after Sideboard, is that I am bad at reading the situation and knowing what to name. It's better after Sideboard, but main board for me seems like it is tough to play and name the right card.
Aura of silence is great. I can't tell you how many times I have had to blow up my own enchantment just to keep it from getting exiled.
True, I never considered this line of play. Good to know.
I took dove and unlife out. It is much stronger on the draw now, and I feel much safer on the play. Drawing or getting dealt a dove early on is basically a wasted draw, and as a "play exactly the right card" kind of deck, that was basically intolerable.
You took out Phyrexian Unlife? Isn't that part of the lock? And also just a great way to buy time, especially with Peace of Mind. And I was considering moving the Dovescape to the Sideboard as well, it is a dead draw in 99% of games. Plus it seems like I sided it out quite a bit. I guess it is only in there for Control Matchups.
I have my Leyline's on the sideboard as well, I don't encounter as much burn as yall seem to, I get a lot of the counterspell decks, and lines give me nothing there....so one of those local meta adjustments.
Well, Leylines stop more than burn. Thoughtseize, inquisition, Thought Knot Seer, Mill(lol), Koligan's Command, Electrolyze, Grapeshot, Collective Brutality will entirely be shut off, Lantern Control (to some extent). Plus it adds to devotion. It is a drag to draw this as your first draw step though... :/
You might also try out wall of omen as a direct replacement for nodes. It's still just a 2 drop, gives you a defender hopeful and a replacement card. Sure, if gives the burn something to target, but hell, better than your face!
Wall of Omens does sound good. And I don't think it should replace Nodes personally, but it can be fit into the deck. But like I said, I want the "Gimmick factor" of all White Enchantments. I know this is probably not the optimum way to build it, but it is a fun deck-building challenge.
I am only running 4 scry lands, and I swear to god I am about to stop slashing blue cause I can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to cast a critical spell cause of mana screw. Hell, I had to put one basic blue land in there so I could ghost quarter myself to get one out. Also, that is a good tactic if you don't really need your Ghost and want colored land, just murder your flagstone...you get the basic land cause of the quarters ability AND the Mistveil cause of the flag ability...woot.
I tried to build a version splashing blue for Detention Sphere and Monastery Siege. Siege seems great, but the DSphere was replaceable by ORing. Not sure if adding blue is worth it for this one card if it puts such a strain on the mana. And as for Flagstones...why are some people playing it? Is it just to ghost quarter and go get two lands at once, one being Mistveil? Why not just run a couple of Flooded Strands, so you can go get the one of Island if needed or a Mistveil PLains. Plus, deck thinning might be a thing, but not really in this deck...
Shrine is such a *****. I only have 3 and several times I have gotten 3 on the draw...ugh. It is so good and so terrible at the same time. Luckily, once you hit the 4 devotion sweet spot, the new legendary rules work to your favor. 1 on in play and one in your hand is 4 mana, not shabby. I ditched my Calciform Pools awhile ago, I can't tell how how much I hate colorless mana. 3 Mistveil also seems...like...a lot. I hate drawing those things, 2 at most, to slow, bad on the draw...particularly since you aren't going flagstones...they are good...you want them...
For me, I didn't have any way of finding Mistveil Plains, so I thought I needed 3 to ensure I could draw it. I haven't been punished too much by the Mistveils, since they are the only 3 ETB tapped lands I run. Usually I get crewed because I get a Calciform Pools and Nykthos and Mistveil all in the same hand. Yuck. I'm not a fan of the Calciform Pools, but I see them as a "necessary evil." Without a Nykthos, How else can we power out an Ideal? THey are incredibly slow though...
I like the sound of Scry Lands though...perhaps like someone mentioned above, 4-6 is ok. I can cut a Mistveil and a couple (Maybe all) Calciforms to make room.
I must admit I found GA to be the MVP- simply beating removal heavy BG-X decks without it was way too much of an ask. Pools I never run- conflict with SF for one thing, colorless being another.
Agree with Auramancy. Beginning to agree with Pools.
I would split O ring into Oring and Blinding light (the version that only does enemy permanents for avoiding Echoing Truth/Maelstrom Pulse)
Great idea! Never even thought of that. Nice.
Ghost quarter is better than the pools for my money, but the Temples are the key to consistency- otherwise the bad draws are too frequent.
How many Ghost Quarters do you run? and how many Nykthos/Scry lands? Have you been hurt by having too many colorless sources or ETB Tapped lands?
On Starfield- simply put, only lay it if it is to your advantage. I like to view it as an Opalescence rather than reanimation tool.
That's been my view on it too, sandbag it until you can swing for lethal out of nowhere. But for some reason, I decided to play it out thinking "if something dies, I can just get it back" without realizing just how many things could actually end up dying.
Stony Silence is not there for affinity, it is there for Tron, where it slows it down hopefully enabling you to interfere with its mana permanently or casta big haymaker of some sort.......
Ah, I see. So it is still a 4 of in the SB to try and slow tron down? But if they just happen to naturally draw Tron, is there any hope besides Luckily naming all the right stuff with Nevermore?
Nevermore is OK for nailing certain combo decks, but I feel it is not that strong against most decks-0 maybe the odd copy but as a 4 of it won't seal the game against Tron which is what most people use it for- because Tron has >4 things that can remove Enchantments, a couple of which wipe the board.
The first time I researched this deck, people were proposing 4 of Nevermore to name Cryptic Command and then Remand. But those have gone way down in popularity so maybe 4 is a bit much now...
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I quite like Nodes if I run the indestructible God, otherwise I don't like it too much.
Unlife is for me a one or max two of, certainly don't want it in the board....
I'll have to try Blessed Alliance, but game 1 Leyline is so good so I may swap it for something else.
Journey is at least something for Thalias which I've liked. I kind of want to take out the Chalices but they do make the burn and infect matchups pretty insane. I thought they might be good in the Grixis Delver matchup, but K-Command breaks it and Leyline already turns off a lot of their 1 mana spells.
Blue splash didn't feel worth it, Detention Sphere rarely double exiled and Verdict's uncounterability hasn't mattered much. Wrath does have the anti regen upside for Golgari Charm and Ezuri, and I already felt stretched as white with 7-8 colorless lands. I did lose a game tonight because of Ghost Quarter not giving WW for Runed Halo on a low mull. I didn't like the ETB tapped chance of Glacial Fortress, and the life loss wasn't worth it for the splash. Spreading Sea's was a draw for the blue splash, but Nature's Claim breaks it in the Tron matchup which is mostly what I wanted it for.
Dovescape is in the sideboard because it locks out any kind of sideboard interaction for the most part. Without playing multiple do nothing enchantments like 2x Greater Auramancy, it comes down and locks out any number of non creature answers. At that point, chaining Nevermore's on any creature such as Reclamation Sage or on Abrupt Decay locks most players out of being able to break any enchantments post board. I hated drawing it game 1 when a lot of decks lose to just fetching Leyline -> Form of the Dragon, so I've been bringing it in against decks like Tron (O-Stone, Ugin, Karn, Nature's Claim), Abzan (Maelstrom Pulse, Anguished Unmaking, Nature's Claim, Seal of Primordium, other random 1 of sideboard enchantment hate), or Esper Control (Esper Charm, Cryptic, Countersquall, chaining counters on the Epic copies.) It is necessary to lock against flexible sideboards, but less useful against say Affinity game 1 where it just completely eats a draw. I've had enough problems just drawing Form of the Dragon early in games.
Went 2-1 tonight, beating Kiki-Chord, loss to Grixis Delver (what I feel is a good matchup but g3 Ghost Quarter can't cast Runed Halo on a mull to "5" (Form in hand), beating Sultai Chord. Dodged the Tron player in this smallish event haha
I want to change my list some more but I'm not sure where to start. I wish I could cut Ghost Quarter
So I went casuals last week with different decks to test my paper EI deck (withoit runed halo, no stock in our area for 3 weeks already):
Against RDW:
Leyline gives you that 30-40% advantage due to dead targeting effects
Against mono green tron tooth and nail:
Bad matchup(30-40%), usually does turn 4-5 tooth and nail xenagos and emrakul, but prior, opponent have enough mana to bypass taxing effects.
Against affinity:
I really don't have stony silence as i thought prison effects is enough. So it does. If i survive turn 4-5, i drop sphere of safety then he auto scoops. If not, you are just dead to flying threats. Leyline has no use here.
Against valakut titanshift:
Folds to leyline without his nature's claim. If you nevermore his scapeshift, it adds more headache on his part. I just do 2 copies of leyline and a greater auramancy and he just scoops. I have journey and obli ring for his primeval titans.
Against BW tokens:
Wrath effects are good. But they have midrange clock. Hand disruptions are dead due to leyline. Without wear//tear or erase, they barely make it late game. Watch out for LOTV.
Against bant eldrazi:
Porphyry is good here since they are midrange. Turn 0 leyline is very good against a T3 TKS. Journey answers his reality smashers. Suppression field taxes his displacers aand fetches (so good).
Against MBC:
Folds to leyline. Too much targetting effects for his build.
So far this deck is performing well for me. I will side grafdigger cage for coco chord elves next week with the local tournament.
If you have the blue splash then Bribery from the board is very good against them, mixed in with Ghost Quarter (main) /Spreading Seas (also from the board) to disrupt their mana it works pretty well. It is a lot of slots to dedicate to the deck, though- Bribery is garbage otherwise, but it does them if they run the big dudes.. Another thing is to use Starfield of Nyx, which gives "instawin" often- resolve and beat.
Game 1 is normally unwinnable.
If you are red splash then Crumble to Dust and Blood Moon/Nevermore boards might do the trick, but it is a lot of slots. Obliterate is decent too, and again SFN is strong as the ability to fetch/lay the card and hoarde unexpectedly is strong.
Pithing Needle is ok too, but you need to look at 7-9 boardable cards.
R1 vs. Naya burn (0-2)
He was just too fast without me having draw any leylines.
Post board, too many skullcracks and leyline of punishment and no leylines again.
R2 vs. MBC infect (0-2)
Lost game 1 due to his main surgical extraction. And he beatdown my heliod with his phyrexian crusader. If i had runed halo, i could have prevented death.
Lost most of my wincon due to extirpate and sadistic sacrament effects.
R3 vs. Mono green tron
G1: Well, turn 6 ugin really kills us.
G2 went really fast with turn 3 karn.
R4 vs. mono green tooth and nail tron (1-2)
G1: was able to resolve EI and conceded on turn 5.
G2: went slow but he was able to resolve tooth and nail with blightsteel colossus and xenagos. I don't have any spot removals for blightsteel.
G2: i resolved EI and played dovescape but he went around it and assembled natural tron and played ulamog, TIG and destroyrd my dovescape. Next turn's attack triggered annihilator my permanents and all og my hopes.
I am so devasted as i have no runed halo.
I'm running 24 lands but seemed to choke on mana sometimes.
And that luck factor for leyline could be better when it comes to black and red color matchups.
I really hate tron as it bypasses all our taxing effects.
Burn should be on of the easier matchups- S-Field/Halo/Leyline do a lot of work, Unlife is really good at buying time.
Regarding tron, I stand by my comments- mucking about with the odd Blood Moon/Nevermore/Needle and expecting it to make a difference is too optimistic- 7/8/9 cards minimum from the board, and you need to include "nail em" cards in that count like Bribery (which is a much better wincon than Ideal) and Crumble To Dust. Extractions of your own work well if you run Ghost Quarter. If you run neither of these then you would need a board of 13/14/15 to stand a chance if you are hoping to secure the game with Nevermore/Needle et al.
A good alternate wincon for Jund/K etc. in case of emergencies is a single board card of Karma. That would also help vs mono-b decks.
#It sounds like lots of off the radar decks are about in your meta.
Also, the MBC has turn 1 thoughtseize and auto surgical extraction to remove enduring ideal. I wish this deck have some consistent nut draws for turn 1.
I'm running 24 lands, with 3 scry lands, 2 mistveils. I was running 22 lands before but i seem to always get stuck on 2 lands that's why i shifted to 24 lands.
Does story circle save us from elfstorm the moment they declare an all out attack? Or only 1 elf per 1 white mana?
I think 4-maybe 5 scry lands is the way to go, honestly, with 2 Mistveil......, and 24-5 lands is about right. Boseiju is a board card too, and should not be part of the 24 main- any extra lands can work well as Ghost Quarters adding to the 9-11 cards you bring in V Tron.......
Flagstones are only really useful for fetching Mistveil.
As for Story Circle- it is a no-no with Suppression field, which I feel should be run.
On discard into the bin for Mistveil to put back in or Starfield to reanimate - your options are- Monastery Siege in U, or Faithless Looting type effects in Red.
Elves is a tough match as g2 they can wipe the board and you need a Dovescape lock in place to stop it (Fracturing Gust).
15 Plains
4 Calciform Pools
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Mistveil Plains
Enchantments (35)
3 Porphyry Nodes
4 Suppression Field
4 Runed Halo
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Peace of Mind
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Dovescape
1 Form of the Dragon
4 Enduring Ideal
1 Porphyry Nodes
2 Sanctimony
4 Stony Silence
4 Nevermore
3 Aura of Silence
1 Rule of Law
Two FNMs ago I went 2-2, but I lost my notes from that night. I don't remember anything from it.
Results from last FNM:
Round 1 Jeskai Delver (W 2-1)
Game 1 - Had two opening Leylines, so all of his Bolts were dead and paths were dead. I didn't draw an ideal, but I drew a Starfield. I was hesitant, but played it. He ended up pathing and bolting some things. I was able to recover some due to Starfield itself, but I didn't like how all of his removal was unlocked. I was able to win past a Torrential Gearhulk, even though I think Starfield was pretty bad.
Game 2 - Mulliganed to 4 cards and drew a decent hand. Able to Runed Halo on Insectile Abberation, which slowed him down, but he was able to drop a pyromancer that I couldn't handle.
Game 3 - Another Leyline that turned off all of his Bolts. He left in his Path to Exiles due to Starfield, but by this point I had sided it out. I won due to Heliod pumping out creatures.
Round 2 Eldrozi Tron (W 2-0)
Game 1 - I was worried when I saw a tron land plus expedition map, but luckily he was a creature based deck and couldn't handle Porphyry Nodes. I played my Unlife and he asked "How much does Lightning Storm cost?" casting a Chalice for X=3. That would normally hurt me, but I was able to get around with Runed Halo and Nodes. I hit an Ideal and got Greater Auramancy so that his Ulamog's could exile anything.
Game 2 - Two early Suppression Fields slowed him down. He couldn't crack his map and never found a 3rd Tron piece.
Round 3 Kiki Chord (D 1-1)
Game 1 - Loooong game since I was new to this deck and he was new to Kiki Chord. So when we were tutoring for pieces, we thought for quite a bit. I landed an Ideal early on, but he had a Pridemage and Eternal Witness to keep bringing it back and destroying the enchantments I was tutoring for. He also dropped a Nahiri to exile some of them so I couldn't Mistviel Plains them and re-search for them. He also had a reclamation Sage. Somehow (I don't remember how...I think Suppression Field made it difficult for him to use his Nahiri and Pridemage) I was able to win Game 1.
Game 2 - He was able to disrupt me before I could really get on the board. Same story as Game 1 but He had two Nahiri's to exile a lot of my enchantments.
Game 3 - We had 2 minutes left before time and I just defended myself from the Combo. Runed Halo on Restoration Angel and a Ghostly Prison locked up the Draw.
Round 4 Grixis Delver (L 1-2)
Game 1 - Opening Leyline sealed the deal early on.
Game 2 - I mulliganed to 6 and kept a one lander. Never hit the 2nd one. He beat me with Insectile Abberation.
Game 3 - Mulliganed to 6 again. Had 3 lands, Ideal, Heliod and Nodes. The Nodes bought some time but he didn't play any more creatures into it. So once it dies, I had no defense. I flooded out and he beat me with Pyromancer tokens.
Overall a decent night. Round 3 seemed like a good matchup but we were both just pretty slow. Round 4 seems like an easy matchup but I just got screwed/flooded. But that's Magic I suppose. Anyways, here are some issues with the deck I have:
-the deck always feels so tight on mana. Every turn, you can only play one thing, so you have to make sure it is the right thing. If it's not, then you're screwed.
-mana issues: I know 15 basic plains seems awesome, but still, Mistveil Plains comes in tapped, and Nykthos and Calciform only perform generic mana for a while. So a turn 2 runed halo is not guaranteed even though it is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, Nykthos is Legendary, so I am only running 3... should it be 4? Some people suggest running Scry Lands but I think that just adds more ETB tapped lands to an already slow deck.
-Tron: Eldrazi Tron seems like an ok match since it is creature based, but what about regular Tron? Is there any hope?
-Counterspells: I had a Boseiju Main deck, but that added Mana issues by coming into play tapped and needing 2 life for generic mana. Ouch. Other help against Counters?
-My SB: Admittedly it's a wreck. 4 Stony Silence seems like too much against Affinity. I mean, Suppression Field hits them pretty good anyway. Maybe I just need two in to SB? Also, the 3 Aura of Silence seems like a lot. I don't know what they really defend against...Maybe just 2 are needed. The 4 Nevermore are great though. What could replace a couple Stony Silences and 1 Aura of Silence? Would Path to Exile help out that much? It seems obvious, but I really want the "Gimmick Factor" of literally everything in here being a white enchantment. Perhaps the SB changes should be -2 Stony Silences - 1 Aura of Silence + 3 Journey to Nowhere. Can I fit a Boseiju in for Counters?
-Starfield: I like having a Main Deck alternate win con, especially if I win Game 1 with Heliod or Starfield. But I almost lost to Jeskai Delver by turning on all of his creature removal. Should I just have 2 Heliods? Are there other alternate win cons?
Thanks for the input. Hoping to hear back from more experienced players with the deck to help with these finer points. Have there been good recent results with the deck? Did it do well at SCG Regionals?
Shrine is such a *****. I only have 3 and several times I have gotten 3 on the draw...ugh. It is so good and so terrible at the same time. Luckily, once you hit the 4 devotion sweet spot, the new legendary rules work to your favor. 1 on in play and one in your hand is 4 mana, not shabby. I ditched my Calciform Pools awhile ago, I can't tell how how much I hate colorless mana. 3 Mistveil also seems...like...a lot. I hate drawing those things, 2 at most, to slow, bad on the draw...particularly since you aren't going flagstones...they are good...you want them...
Also, I love oblivion rings as much as the next guy, but I ended up throwing in some journey to nowhere's as well. I didn't want the untaxing that path brings, but sometimes orings just to damn slow. Nice to have a bit of options.
Anyway take that for what its worth, we have tuned ours a bit differently, you likely have more flexibility in certain ways that I do because you can be more aggressive, mine is more focus on REALLY locking it down, which makes me pretty weak against other legit control decks...basically get screwed by them.
I would split O ring into Oring and Blinding light (the version that only does enemy permanents for avoiding Echoing Truth/Maelstrom Pulse)
Ghost quarter is better than the pools for my money, but the Temples are the key to consistency- otherwise the bad draws are too frequent.
On Starfield- simply put, only lay it if it is to your advantage. I like to view it as an Opalescence rather than reanimation tool.
Stony Silence is not there for affinity, it is there for Tron, where it slows it down hopefully enabling you to interfere with its mana permanently or casta big haymaker of some sort.......
Nevermore is OK for nailing certain combo decks, but I feel it is not that strong against most decks-0 maybe the odd copy but as a 4 of it won't seal the game against Tron which is what most people use it for- because Tron has >4 things that can remove Enchantments, a couple of which wipe the board.
Nodes I feel is just personal preference. It is one of a lot of cards in the deck that are very binary, another reason to run 4-5 scrylands...........
True, it does provide flexibility to the opponent...Against my Kiki Chord opponent, He just kept playing Wall of Omens into it and was able to keep his important creatures alive. But I think most cases it will cause some tempo loss to the opponent. If they open with a turn one mana dork and we play Nodes, then we are guaranteed to get the mana dork at least. And then they might pause and not play another creature into it on their second turn, trying not make Nodes a 2-for-1. So the way I see it, Nodes is at least a 1-for-1, just like Journey to Nowhere or Path, but it has the potential slow them down or be a 2-for-1 or better if they continually play into it. But on the other hand, they can control which creature will die to some degree, and that is a knock against Nodes. I still like them myself as my Meta has some Zoo/Eldrazi players and Nodes is effective against them. Plus, it doesn't target, so you can kill a Reality Smasher and not discard for it. Minor upside.
I found Auramancy to be great. A lot of decks might have some Maindeck outs and tutoring for this once you hit an ideal seals it up. Plus it isn't a bad card just to throw it down if you happen to draw it, it's not entirely dead like Form of Dragon. I like it as a 1-of. The problem with Nevermore, and this is even after Sideboard, is that I am bad at reading the situation and knowing what to name. It's better after Sideboard, but main board for me seems like it is tough to play and name the right card.
True, I never considered this line of play. Good to know.
You took out Phyrexian Unlife? Isn't that part of the lock? And also just a great way to buy time, especially with Peace of Mind. And I was considering moving the Dovescape to the Sideboard as well, it is a dead draw in 99% of games. Plus it seems like I sided it out quite a bit. I guess it is only in there for Control Matchups.
Well, Leylines stop more than burn. Thoughtseize, inquisition, Thought Knot Seer, Mill(lol), Koligan's Command, Electrolyze, Grapeshot, Collective Brutality will entirely be shut off, Lantern Control (to some extent). Plus it adds to devotion. It is a drag to draw this as your first draw step though... :/
Wall of Omens does sound good. And I don't think it should replace Nodes personally, but it can be fit into the deck. But like I said, I want the "Gimmick factor" of all White Enchantments. I know this is probably not the optimum way to build it, but it is a fun deck-building challenge.
I tried to build a version splashing blue for Detention Sphere and Monastery Siege. Siege seems great, but the DSphere was replaceable by ORing. Not sure if adding blue is worth it for this one card if it puts such a strain on the mana. And as for Flagstones...why are some people playing it? Is it just to ghost quarter and go get two lands at once, one being Mistveil? Why not just run a couple of Flooded Strands, so you can go get the one of Island if needed or a Mistveil PLains. Plus, deck thinning might be a thing, but not really in this deck...
For me, I didn't have any way of finding Mistveil Plains, so I thought I needed 3 to ensure I could draw it. I haven't been punished too much by the Mistveils, since they are the only 3 ETB tapped lands I run. Usually I get crewed because I get a Calciform Pools and Nykthos and Mistveil all in the same hand. Yuck. I'm not a fan of the Calciform Pools, but I see them as a "necessary evil." Without a Nykthos, How else can we power out an Ideal? THey are incredibly slow though...
I like the sound of Scry Lands though...perhaps like someone mentioned above, 4-6 is ok. I can cut a Mistveil and a couple (Maybe all) Calciforms to make room.
Agree with Auramancy. Beginning to agree with Pools.
Great idea! Never even thought of that. Nice.
How many Ghost Quarters do you run? and how many Nykthos/Scry lands? Have you been hurt by having too many colorless sources or ETB Tapped lands?
That's been my view on it too, sandbag it until you can swing for lethal out of nowhere. But for some reason, I decided to play it out thinking "if something dies, I can just get it back" without realizing just how many things could actually end up dying.
Ah, I see. So it is still a 4 of in the SB to try and slow tron down? But if they just happen to naturally draw Tron, is there any hope besides Luckily naming all the right stuff with Nevermore?
The first time I researched this deck, people were proposing 4 of Nevermore to name Cryptic Command and then Remand. But those have gone way down in popularity so maybe 4 is a bit much now...