I think the key to beating proc may be Supp Field x4 for the Forecast and confiscate/seas on their reanimation land - but they would need to be game 1. Confiscate is not a bad call anyway in that it can nick a top Planeswalker and can be attached to hexproof stuff if searched for.....Game 2 that Cage helps.....
Westvale is good, although so is Celestial Col.
Proc is a very rare deck, man lands are ok for us if the mana works.....
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Well done! Bribery is super cool, eh? I have formatted it for you with the "deck" tag...................
Your list is remarkably similar to mine- I use two Monastery Siege now, and run 3 Spheres main deck- something had to go and siege made way for Sphere. I don't use Peace of Mind or 2x Bridge, but I am experimenting with two of the new Escalate white uncommons for the Celestial Flare effect or life effect vs Infect and Burn. I use a Faith's Fetters main too as it can come in and attach to a hexproof dude and can gain life for the burn match. I also use a Confiscate for bringing in alongside two Bribery- again it can be fetched to deal with an existing Karn, or can be cast easily
Seas is my other Tron tech, although these can come in against almost any grindy deck. Starfield I do use main, although it means going easy on wipers on my side I like the ability to fetch and swing for the win.....
Yeah, Bribery is a beast against them, it's a pity I couldn't get to see his/her tech, but still pretty much satisfied.
Nahiri decks are tier 1 now, so it comes really handy against them too.
Fetching and putting via Ideal or its copies just puts it into play, attaching to whatever permanent in play that an Aura can enchant according to the textbox (e.g. Enchant swamp can only enchant a permanent that has the subtype "Swamp", Enchant creature must only enchant creatures). Hexproof won't stop this as there is no targetting in this process and fetter's can legally Enchant any permanent.
Oh, I didn't realize about that. So if you bring it back from your gy with starfield to nyx it should be the same isn't it?
BTW, I was wondering is mirrorpool is playable here, I mean, copying an Enduring Ideal anytime to have 2 solved Enduring Ideals each turn seems cool to me.
Not every deck can sacrifice mana speed and mana fixers to this though, but IMO it's worth a try as a singleton.
Well I use S Field, so not for me, probably. But I like the idea. Can you copy a copy?
With Starfield I guess so, unless "return to play" operates differently to "put into play"...............does not seem to
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
Note "applicable effects" refers to clauses like "can only enchant a creature with power x or greater" etc. Not hexproof or shroud.....
Hi guys Im trying to optimize my ideal deck for a event in the near future, havent played in a while and my list is a couple months old.
Monastery Siege seem the way to go..
how good is the red splash for assemble?
Do I absolutely need 4 copies of Ideal? maybe a foolish question but seems like lock down is as important as to "combo".
Is the 2nd Greater Auramancy important?
Heliod+nodes not that great anymore?
Nevermore not a necessity or just plain bad?
Wraths main?
Rule of Law effects?
Soo many questions soo little time.
If you are going red for ATL you might be better not doing the whole Ideal thing. A pillow fort red build is viable in itself. If You cast and resolve Ideal you want to win in 2-3 turns. ATL is a super card, but takes a little longer to win. Obviously it comes down earlier than Ideal, and can make blockers. But that sounds less like an Ideal deck.
I think to win you want
Form of the Dragon/Unlife- wins in short order.
Form does more than ATL- it is a worse card, but has the effect of winning the game and shutting out all ground based attacks.
Splashing into a UW build is hard - using RUW needs fetches and shocks, considerably weakening the deck v aggro and making Suppression Field unplayable.
4 Ideal is correct. If you use just 1/2 then you should be on the Pillow Fort thread-there is a Primer for that which I wrote and keep updated. Fundamentally a 2 copy Ideal build will be just a Pillow-Fort that can win in different ways every now and then.
Heliod and Nodes is fine- I like it in Pillow Fort, I don't run it in Ideal. The decision on that shapes other choices for you.
For Pillow Fort (Wr) I use Rest in Peace main (there are a limited number of viable t2 drops, hurting Goyf and Snappy plus Delve is about as broad an effect you can get for two mana after Halo and protective stuff). Running RIP means I don't run Starfield, meaning I need other win cons, so I use Heliod, so I need nodes. For Ideal I need to manipulate the bin and recycle enchantments using Monastery Siege and Misteveil Plains or rarely Starfield. These go into the deck for Ideal searches and thus I can't run RIP main. If you run Heliod and Nodes in Ideal then you probably should avoid Starfield as Nodes will keep burying itself.
Nodes/Heliod is pretty rubbish against Tron, which is impossible to lock out in any version of Ideal and is often only beatable with cards like Bribery and Confiscate.
Incidentally Starfield is slightly better in this match as you can "fetch and win" more quickly. You can also "fetch and win" against a fair few decks, its one of the better reasons to play Ideal.
Two Auramancies are essential for my money.
Rule of Law- not main, but in the 75, yes.
Nevermore- its ok as a board card, maybe one copy main, but if it is a spell we worry about then we can put Dovescape in off ideal. If it is a critter, well something like Nevermore is ok against super scary Ulamog type stuff, but only Tron plays it and if it is about then you need to look at board cards like Bribery. For decks that get stopped by a Nevermore- eg Scapeshift- we have Leylines and Auramancies to protect. I think Nevermore is better in Pillow-Fort builds that do not run Dovescape.
Wraths main- well that means no Starfield. No reason why not. I do not.
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Play nodes and heliod- or neither. Heliod is a bit of a nonbo with SF, but still a beast, and synergises with Nodes. Nykthos mana is enough to make dudes with SF down. Indestructible is relevant too. If Nodes is winning you games play both.
2 Auramancies is a minimum.
Avoid nonbos at all costs. Forget sequencing optimally- if the nonbo happens often enough G1 it needs to go and something needs to g to the board. I won't play wrath in a SF build, unless one is in the board. Scry helps on the temples in terms of ordering.
My PF build runs 2 nodes, 2 heliod, 1 tutor (3cc is miserable).
I think PF has to run just enchantments main deck, and EI can get away with a couple of flexible spells main.
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Monastery siege: Really useful and flexible card. Both modes work wonders for us, one helping us find that extra land, enduring ideal or runed halo we needed, and the other providing us protection against removal, discard, burn, etc.
Mirrorpool: You can copy a copy, I play 4x sup fields as well, but we know once EI hits play we typically have plenty of mana available and nothing to do with it.
I guess it wouldn't copy the "Epic" ability as the EI copies don't have it, which essentially makes it less attractive as you wouldn't be having a "free" extra EI copy each turn, but one on a single turn.
Assemble the legion: I play a singleton as a secondary mainboard wincon, in case Form of the dragon gets removed from the game, or the opponent has leyline of sanctity, plays soul sisters/martyr proc, or else. You don't need to go full on red, and you don't need to take your enduring ideals away. I seldomly hardcast it as is a singleton, most times I fetch it with Ideal, so I don't see your point there. So again, I play BOTH wincons, you don't really need to take one away.
number of Enduring ideals: I saw some lists running 3, but I always sticked to 4, because your prison can't hold forever without all of its pieces. You gain plenty of time with lock pieces, but you still need to close the game somehow, and hardcasting Form of the dragon is really rare (unless you're facing blood moon). So, IMO 4x Enduring ideals is necessary.
Heliod, god of the sun+porphyry nodes: I don't run Heliod since I play 2x ensnaring bridges mainboard, therefore I needed a wincon other than form of the dragon for more resilience, assemble the legion filled that spot quite succesfully for me and that means no porphyry nodes. Nodes by itself isn't that bad against some decks, mostly low-creature count decks (don't play it against tokens ). It sorta sets a clock on their critters and/or prevents them from playing dudes for 1 turn. A 1 for 1 against a tarmogoyf isn't that bad IMO for instance. A 2 for 1 gets even better, not to talk a 3 for 1. But the issue is it's still kinda slow.
I wouldn't cut it with ease, I mean, I did it mostly because of Assemble the legion, but if you're not into that you'd probably want to do some extensive playtest changing the number of copies between 0 to 4, and trying different replacements for it before selling your copies.
Greater auramancy: I play 2 and I like it, that gives us some redundancy and eventually the ability to protect each other, making all our stuff unkillable (unless patrician's scorn or sth).
Nevermore: It's a pain in the arse for combo decks, it was my weapon of choice against hive mind+pact of negation decks, which ceased to exist after summer bloom saw the hammer. Dovescape fills that role now for me, I've even won some games with 1/1 bird tokens, casting it BEFORE enduring ideal, lotsa fun.
It still a really good choice as a singleton mainboard, and in some number on sb, as it can hit ANYTHING, removal, combo pieces, beaters, etc. We just went separate ways these days, but we'll eventually become friends again in the future (?).
Wrath of god: Supreme verdict is my card of choice actually since it's uncountereable. Huge inclusion against control and... well anything with creatures. And my 1/1 tokens don't really care about it as they know some more soldiers will come next turn.
Edit: Actually assemble the legion is really bad against soul sisters. Each token provides 1 life (or more if there's more than one soul warden on the battlefield), and it's really challenging going for the beatdown that way.
I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that, but still, my point was Assemble the legion is good as an alternative wincon.
Edit 2: Dictate of kruphix is another enchantment-draw engine if you're looking for sth like that.
Forecast is activated......so it won't be too happy with Suppression field.
Mr Woods did a Martyr/Ideal build on one of the sites using Proc. It was an interesting piece, I will give it that- looked at five uses of Martyrs and one of them was Enduring Ideal decks. Sadly too many of the articles on Channel Fireball, TCG and SCG are designed to overhype and sell cards (shock!) or to tank them and get the author their 40 $ or whatever with the minimum possible effort and loss of tech (shock horror pros don't give us their inside tech before an event). The article was a classic case of needing some original content and a bunch of unfinished ideas coming together to produce a readable piece that makes a change from telling us about the next hot card but which in no way gives us a tested decklist.......
My win cons are
Form
Starfield
Decking
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4 is pretty standard for Pillow Fort, but we can use 3 or 4, but this assumes 4 Leyline and at least 3 runed halo main (probably 4) with another 4-6 x 2 drops in white. It also assumes you don't have a double coloured requiring second colour. If you are not running maindeck Leyline then I would avoid Nykthos.
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Agreed. Nykthos, shrine to nyx it's the only ramp we play (unless you're playing a ramp version of this), so 3/4 copies are necessary. Dropping an Enduring ideal a turn earlier worths it, as well as dropping an extra enchantment after the first has been countered for instance.
The issue is we don't want extra copies sitting on our hand as it's legendary, same happened to me with urborg, tomb of yawgmoth when I played 8-rack, you certainly want a copy, but extra copies suck. So that's why I always went with 3 copies on all my versions (even mono white), I also never moved away from 4x leyline of sanctity + 4x runed halo which are the main ramp enablers due to :symw::symw: on their cost.
You can sometimes, if the first copy produces >3 mana, use the second to act as a ritual, although with our key card costing 7 it is a moot point. Sometimes though it enables a line of play that gets a couple of permanents down that makes the game winnable.
But yeah, 3 is as valid as four for my money in EI.
Totally with you on the Leylines, even post board I rarely board them out even if they are marginal. I do sometimes take a couple out vs tron as I often try and Bribery win game 2, and the ramp is thus not as good.
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Yup, at times I did it, but I was mainly thinking of getting nykthos on your opening hand. It's ok to sac a nykthos to a nykthos on mid to late game so you can cast an sphere of safety. But turn 1 nykthos into turn 2 nykthos ain't that good.
Yeah, it's always a hard decision when it comes to take leylines away. I even though about running other leylines solely for the ramp. But I guess leyline of the meek doesn't have much else to offer to EI. Leyline of anticipation could be interesting against control, but it'd be nearly impossible to ramp with blue.
Ok, what goodies are we going to get next set?
What we need
An enchantment Pithing needle or similar static ability that drops at 1 mana, something maindeckable, flexible but not back breaking. Chances of this happening- close to zero
Something uncounterable and enchantment based. Chances - zero
A cantriping or cycling enchantment- chances: zero
Some limited tutoring at 1/2 cc- chances: -zero
A snazy 2/3 mana enchantment that does a couple of things towards a specific gameplan, along the lines of Fevered Visions being an Owling Mine or Stasis prison card. Except for our gameplan -chances: slim
some kind of land that aids us without conflicting with suppression field- chances: zero
some kind of land that has an activated ability that helps us but won't play with aforementioned field but would help us- chances: medium
some kind of critter that aids us but defeats the point of being critterless- chances: high
some kind of enchantment that acts as a wincon by generating tokens and such like- chances: medium/high.
So let us be frank- the setting and likely themes of the new set don't give much hope for a ramp based enchantment based deck with a cool 7cc win con.
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Yup, it sucks WOTC is focusing in winning through combat damage and planeswalkers, leaving stuff like enchantments aside.
I don't have much "eye" predicting card releases, but I'm pretty much hopeless about it.
As for tutors, we don't have stuff like enlightened tutor, but we can still play usual stuff like serum visions and such.
Green would totally give us some cool draw spells, like commune with the gods for instance.
Green is certainly promising in that it could, in an enchantment heavy block, give us some search 'n' filter.
It also has some flexibility- Primal command that our decks often lack- and some root maze type prison cards. Ramp is there too- I never write green off, although I think R and U are ahead of it currently.
We get one tutor- Idyllic - @3, and that will be our lot for non critters I think.
Debtor's knell is a card I have used myself in Ideal. Nowadays I prefer to maindeck Rest in peace effects, and frankly Starfield of Nyx is still a better "insta-win" card than the knell despite me maindecking RIP , whilst Form of the Dragon is a better wincon for that sort of cost. But Knell is pretty strong.
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Agree with all of that bar the G. Auramancy. This deck is not under the radar, the specific builds may be but Enduring ideal is well known- I rarely see a surprised face unless players are new to Modern and even if they don't know it they will know Pillow Fort style decks from EDH. Many decks do have removal for Enchantments- Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay (and board Golgari Charms) in BG-X decks - Jund, Junk etc. pridemages in Hatebear lists, Rec Sage in Elves, Nahiri in USA, Karn in Tron etc. Getting Aurmancy down is often the difference between having a Ghostly or Halo that keeps us alive or does not- they are not so fast when they have to destroy the Auramancy first. It also is a super fetch target after Ideal- Dovescape stops most enchantmentkill, but not Abrupt Decay, Rec Sage or Pridemage.
The lack of 1 drops really hurts this deck, but it can do enough against decks like Death's Shadow, Infect if it plays with SF and Halo and the odd utility spell. The issue for is beating the BG-X decks with multiple Pulses and Decays as well as coming up with a Tron board plan. You can have the board plan, you can beat infect enough and combo decks with Leylines/Halo. But you can't always out grind the the BG_X and Counterspell decks unless you make changes that significantly hurt in the other matches. Those one drops we so desperately need are further away than ever.
Scry lands are awesome.
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As I said on the Pillow Fort primer- the tapped ability currently means nothing against most decks (Bar TTB), lifegain is pretty minimal impact. Blind Obedience gets no play now, unless we get something to inhibit untaps, it won't do enough.
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Caverns is ok, to be honest the Caverns gives speed, and we don't often lose to the fast decks, thanks to Halo, S fields and Ghostly playsets. Its the combo and control decks that are bigger issues, and it won't help there.
I am not sure about the ramp, it costs a card.
I like the odd Karoo land (eg Boros Garrison, Azorius etc. as they bounce the scry lands) and Nykthos, although to be honest we are only talking ramping into a t5 ideal. Will lens be better? just maybe- but is it worth a card?
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actually they kind of work together. authority locks the creature down for a turn, and Nodes kills it a turn later. makes creatures with haste such as reality smasher vulnerable to nodes.
You guys still there?
It seems someone TOP8'ed an IQ, and the guy from MTGgoldfish shared the deck tech.
76 cards seem a tad odd though. As well as 2x temple of triumph and luminarch ascension as a wincon.
I would think you're heavily favored against Lantern and even the UR burn/Thing decks. Wouldn't think there to be a terrible match up out there?
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Westvale is good, although so is Celestial Col.
Proc is a very rare deck, man lands are ok for us if the mana works.....
Game 1, I scooped as soon as I saw a tron piece for not revealing tech.
I thought it was RG tron, so I didn't board any of my 3 defense grids.
Took away all 4 leylines, 2 runed halos, a monastery siege and 2ensnaring bridges for 2x bribery, 2x aura of silence, 3x stony silence and 2x pithing needle.
Game 2 I had a hard time against counters, and he eventually pulled a thought-knot seer which got me in a struggle, leaving me at 8 life. I had a stony silence, a phyrexian unlife and an aura of silence after some time fighting against countermagic, finally on turn 7 I could drop my Enduring Ideal which he couldn't counter due to boseiju, who shelters all and searched for dovescape and then form of the dragon which made him scoop.
Game 3 I took 3 suppression fields for my 3 defense grid.
He was playing more conservative with his counterspells, waiting for my hate-tech to show up, lost an aura of silence and a stony silence this way, but I eventually found another aura of silence. He eventually found all tron pieces, and tapped out for treasure mage and a wurmcoil engine. I didn't get to see his/her tech with my bribery because he scooped as nearly as he saw it on the stack .
I also won a match against mono white turbo fog (easy as he used luminarch ascension as his/her wincon), beating him with FOTD game 1 and with assemble the legion game 2 (he had leyline of sanctity out).
Also won against some random non-tier/home brews, including an exalted one, WB tokens, among others.
Here's the list I'm toying with. No time to format, I'll do it later.
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Sphere of Safety
4 Runed Halo
4 Suppression Field
3 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Peace of Mind
1 Form of the Dragon
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Dovescape
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Enduring Ideal
7 Plains
2 Mistveil Plains
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Greater Auramancy
2 Temple of Triumph
3 Monastery Siege
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Bribery
SB: 2 Aura of Silence
I just took a pithing needle and an aura of silence out to try curse of exhaustion and starfield to nyx.
And I'm dying to try paradox haze in some build, but I lack flex spots for a "win more" card.
Cheers.
SST.
Well done! Bribery is super cool, eh? I have formatted it for you with the "deck" tag...................
Your list is remarkably similar to mine- I use two Monastery Siege now, and run 3 Spheres main deck- something had to go and siege made way for Sphere. I don't use Peace of Mind or 2x Bridge, but I am experimenting with two of the new Escalate white uncommons for the Celestial Flare effect or life effect vs Infect and Burn. I use a Faith's Fetters main too as it can come in and attach to a hexproof dude and can gain life for the burn match. I also use a Confiscate for bringing in alongside two Bribery- again it can be fetched to deal with an existing Karn, or can be cast easily
Seas is my other Tron tech, although these can come in against almost any grindy deck. Starfield I do use main, although it means going easy on wipers on my side I like the ability to fetch and swing for the win.....
Nahiri decks are tier 1 now, so it comes really handy against them too.
I didn't realise I could cut my singleton peace of mind since I mostly played that for discarding my wincons so I could reshuffle them with mistveil plains. Monastery Siege fills that role now, so it's pretty much pointless, lifegain is not that relevant and the sinergy with ensnaring bridge is something I can live without.
Probably taking it away tonight for a detention sphere, supreme verdict or even a wheel of sun and moon.
Confiscate is something I'm willing to try as well someday.
I don't understand how is it that faith's fetters targets hexproof dudes..
Oh, and thanks for the formatting.
Cheers.
SST.
Fetching and putting via Ideal or its copies just puts it into play, attaching to whatever permanent in play that an Aura can enchant according to the textbox (e.g. Enchant swamp can only enchant a permanent that has the subtype "Swamp", Enchant creature must only enchant creatures). Hexproof won't stop this as there is no targetting in this process and fetter's can legally Enchant any permanent.
BTW, I was wondering is mirrorpool is playable here, I mean, copying an Enduring Ideal anytime to have 2 solved Enduring Ideals each turn seems cool to me.
Not every deck can sacrifice mana speed and mana fixers to this though, but IMO it's worth a try as a singleton.
Thoughts?
With Starfield I guess so, unless "return to play" operates differently to "put into play"...............does not seem to
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
Note "applicable effects" refers to clauses like "can only enchant a creature with power x or greater" etc. Not hexproof or shroud.....
If you are going red for ATL you might be better not doing the whole Ideal thing. A pillow fort red build is viable in itself. If You cast and resolve Ideal you want to win in 2-3 turns. ATL is a super card, but takes a little longer to win. Obviously it comes down earlier than Ideal, and can make blockers. But that sounds less like an Ideal deck.
I think to win you want
Form of the Dragon/Unlife- wins in short order.
Form does more than ATL- it is a worse card, but has the effect of winning the game and shutting out all ground based attacks.
Splashing into a UW build is hard - using RUW needs fetches and shocks, considerably weakening the deck v aggro and making Suppression Field unplayable.
4 Ideal is correct. If you use just 1/2 then you should be on the Pillow Fort thread-there is a Primer for that which I wrote and keep updated. Fundamentally a 2 copy Ideal build will be just a Pillow-Fort that can win in different ways every now and then.
Heliod and Nodes is fine- I like it in Pillow Fort, I don't run it in Ideal. The decision on that shapes other choices for you.
For Pillow Fort (Wr) I use Rest in Peace main (there are a limited number of viable t2 drops, hurting Goyf and Snappy plus Delve is about as broad an effect you can get for two mana after Halo and protective stuff). Running RIP means I don't run Starfield, meaning I need other win cons, so I use Heliod, so I need nodes. For Ideal I need to manipulate the bin and recycle enchantments using Monastery Siege and Misteveil Plains or rarely Starfield. These go into the deck for Ideal searches and thus I can't run RIP main. If you run Heliod and Nodes in Ideal then you probably should avoid Starfield as Nodes will keep burying itself.
Nodes/Heliod is pretty rubbish against Tron, which is impossible to lock out in any version of Ideal and is often only beatable with cards like Bribery and Confiscate.
Incidentally Starfield is slightly better in this match as you can "fetch and win" more quickly. You can also "fetch and win" against a fair few decks, its one of the better reasons to play Ideal.
Two Auramancies are essential for my money.
Rule of Law- not main, but in the 75, yes.
Nevermore- its ok as a board card, maybe one copy main, but if it is a spell we worry about then we can put Dovescape in off ideal. If it is a critter, well something like Nevermore is ok against super scary Ulamog type stuff, but only Tron plays it and if it is about then you need to look at board cards like Bribery. For decks that get stopped by a Nevermore- eg Scapeshift- we have Leylines and Auramancies to protect. I think Nevermore is better in Pillow-Fort builds that do not run Dovescape.
Wraths main- well that means no Starfield. No reason why not. I do not.
2 Auramancies is a minimum.
Avoid nonbos at all costs. Forget sequencing optimally- if the nonbo happens often enough G1 it needs to go and something needs to g to the board. I won't play wrath in a SF build, unless one is in the board. Scry helps on the temples in terms of ordering.
My PF build runs 2 nodes, 2 heliod, 1 tutor (3cc is miserable).
I think PF has to run just enchantments main deck, and EI can get away with a couple of flexible spells main.
Monastery siege: Really useful and flexible card. Both modes work wonders for us, one helping us find that extra land, enduring ideal or runed halo we needed, and the other providing us protection against removal, discard, burn, etc.
Mirrorpool: You can copy a copy, I play 4x sup fields as well, but we know once EI hits play we typically have plenty of mana available and nothing to do with it.
I guess it wouldn't copy the "Epic" ability as the EI copies don't have it, which essentially makes it less attractive as you wouldn't be having a "free" extra EI copy each turn, but one on a single turn.
WUR build: I run a WUR list mainly for hardcasting assemble the legion and eventually (but not frequently) form of the dragon and it ain't that bad. It's true that sometimes it's a pity to see those monastery sieges sitting on your hand with only RW mana, but it doesn't happen that often. I don't run fetchlands at all, I play 3x temple of enlightenment, 2x temple of triumph, 4x hallowed fountain and 1x sacred foundry, I'm probably swapping some plains for 4x flagstones of trokair these days, as they can fetch any shocklands, or eventually a mistveil plains, also having some synergy with ghost quarter (essentially 2 fetchlands in one interaction).
Assemble the legion: I play a singleton as a secondary mainboard wincon, in case Form of the dragon gets removed from the game, or the opponent has leyline of sanctity, plays soul sisters/martyr proc, or else. You don't need to go full on red, and you don't need to take your enduring ideals away. I seldomly hardcast it as is a singleton, most times I fetch it with Ideal, so I don't see your point there. So again, I play BOTH wincons, you don't really need to take one away.
number of Enduring ideals: I saw some lists running 3, but I always sticked to 4, because your prison can't hold forever without all of its pieces. You gain plenty of time with lock pieces, but you still need to close the game somehow, and hardcasting Form of the dragon is really rare (unless you're facing blood moon). So, IMO 4x Enduring ideals is necessary.
Heliod, god of the sun+porphyry nodes: I don't run Heliod since I play 2x ensnaring bridges mainboard, therefore I needed a wincon other than form of the dragon for more resilience, assemble the legion filled that spot quite succesfully for me and that means no porphyry nodes. Nodes by itself isn't that bad against some decks, mostly low-creature count decks (don't play it against tokens ). It sorta sets a clock on their critters and/or prevents them from playing dudes for 1 turn. A 1 for 1 against a tarmogoyf isn't that bad IMO for instance. A 2 for 1 gets even better, not to talk a 3 for 1. But the issue is it's still kinda slow.
I wouldn't cut it with ease, I mean, I did it mostly because of Assemble the legion, but if you're not into that you'd probably want to do some extensive playtest changing the number of copies between 0 to 4, and trying different replacements for it before selling your copies.
Greater auramancy: I play 2 and I like it, that gives us some redundancy and eventually the ability to protect each other, making all our stuff unkillable (unless patrician's scorn or sth).
Rule of law/Eidolon of rhetoric/curse of exhaustion: I've never saw the use for these TBH, can't really say something helpful here, other than I always found more useful stuff for my sb. I'd certainly play them if I was into a knowledge pool or erayo, soratami ascendant lockdown kind of thing. Maybe also with some number of lunar force, but that's another sort of thing.
Nevermore: It's a pain in the arse for combo decks, it was my weapon of choice against hive mind+pact of negation decks, which ceased to exist after summer bloom saw the hammer.
Dovescape fills that role now for me, I've even won some games with 1/1 bird tokens, casting it BEFORE enduring ideal, lotsa fun.
It still a really good choice as a singleton mainboard, and in some number on sb, as it can hit ANYTHING, removal, combo pieces, beaters, etc. We just went separate ways these days, but we'll eventually become friends again in the future (?).
Wrath of god: Supreme verdict is my card of choice actually since it's uncountereable. Huge inclusion against control and... well anything with creatures. And my 1/1 tokens don't really care about it as they know some more soldiers will come next turn.
Honden of seeing winds: Expensive for what it does. Mikokoro, center of the sea was my card of choice for card draw, but I cut it for mana consistency. Monastery siege's card filtering proved to be enough too.
BTW, does stuff with forecast like proclamation of rebirth, pride of the clouds and sky hussar get hit by suppression field? It's an activated ability isn't it?
Cheers.
SST.
Edit: Actually assemble the legion is really bad against soul sisters. Each token provides 1 life (or more if there's more than one soul warden on the battlefield), and it's really challenging going for the beatdown that way.
I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that, but still, my point was Assemble the legion is good as an alternative wincon.
Edit 2: Dictate of kruphix is another enchantment-draw engine if you're looking for sth like that.
Mr Woods did a Martyr/Ideal build on one of the sites using Proc. It was an interesting piece, I will give it that- looked at five uses of Martyrs and one of them was Enduring Ideal decks. Sadly too many of the articles on Channel Fireball, TCG and SCG are designed to overhype and sell cards (shock!) or to tank them and get the author their 40 $ or whatever with the minimum possible effort and loss of tech (shock horror pros don't give us their inside tech before an event). The article was a classic case of needing some original content and a bunch of unfinished ideas coming together to produce a readable piece that makes a change from telling us about the next hot card but which in no way gives us a tested decklist.......
My win cons are
Form
Starfield
Decking
The issue is we don't want extra copies sitting on our hand as it's legendary, same happened to me with urborg, tomb of yawgmoth when I played 8-rack, you certainly want a copy, but extra copies suck. So that's why I always went with 3 copies on all my versions (even mono white), I also never moved away from 4x leyline of sanctity + 4x runed halo which are the main ramp enablers due to :symw::symw: on their cost.
Cheers.
SST.
But yeah, 3 is as valid as four for my money in EI.
Totally with you on the Leylines, even post board I rarely board them out even if they are marginal. I do sometimes take a couple out vs tron as I often try and Bribery win game 2, and the ramp is thus not as good.
Yeah, it's always a hard decision when it comes to take leylines away. I even though about running other leylines solely for the ramp. But I guess leyline of the meek doesn't have much else to offer to EI. Leyline of anticipation could be interesting against control, but it'd be nearly impossible to ramp with blue.
Cheers.
SST.
What we need
An enchantment Pithing needle or similar static ability that drops at 1 mana, something maindeckable, flexible but not back breaking. Chances of this happening- close to zero
Something uncounterable and enchantment based. Chances - zero
A cantriping or cycling enchantment- chances: zero
Some limited tutoring at 1/2 cc- chances: -zero
A snazy 2/3 mana enchantment that does a couple of things towards a specific gameplan, along the lines of Fevered Visions being an Owling Mine or Stasis prison card. Except for our gameplan -chances: slim
some kind of land that aids us without conflicting with suppression field- chances: zero
some kind of land that has an activated ability that helps us but won't play with aforementioned field but would help us- chances: medium
some kind of critter that aids us but defeats the point of being critterless- chances: high
some kind of enchantment that acts as a wincon by generating tokens and such like- chances: medium/high.
So let us be frank- the setting and likely themes of the new set don't give much hope for a ramp based enchantment based deck with a cool 7cc win con.
I don't have much "eye" predicting card releases, but I'm pretty much hopeless about it.
I'm working in some other ideas at the time, like lost auramancers combo with vampire hexmage/hex parasite/timecrafting or anything to remove those counters (It'd probably require some protection as well), using debtors' knell as a finisher, give a second try to a red-ish ramp version with vessel of volatility, simian spirit guide and such, try green ramp, try stuff like lunar force and the seals for removal, go more sorcery focused with spellweaver helix dredging for it and stuff, but it'd probably miss the point of Enduring IDeal.
As for tutors, we don't have stuff like enlightened tutor, but we can still play usual stuff like serum visions and such.
Green would totally give us some cool draw spells, like commune with the gods for instance.
Cheers.
SST.
It also has some flexibility- Primal command that our decks often lack- and some root maze type prison cards. Ramp is there too- I never write green off, although I think R and U are ahead of it currently.
We get one tutor- Idyllic - @3, and that will be our lot for non critters I think.
Debtor's knell is a card I have used myself in Ideal. Nowadays I prefer to maindeck Rest in peace effects, and frankly Starfield of Nyx is still a better "insta-win" card than the knell despite me maindecking RIP , whilst Form of the Dragon is a better wincon for that sort of cost. But Knell is pretty strong.
The lack of 1 drops really hurts this deck, but it can do enough against decks like Death's Shadow, Infect if it plays with SF and Halo and the odd utility spell. The issue for is beating the BG-X decks with multiple Pulses and Decays as well as coming up with a Tron board plan. You can have the board plan, you can beat infect enough and combo decks with Leylines/Halo. But you can't always out grind the the BG_X and Counterspell decks unless you make changes that significantly hurt in the other matches. Those one drops we so desperately need are further away than ever.
Scry lands are awesome.
Also it might be worth playing 1-3 gemstone caverns in some of the traditional builds. Possibly 4, this deck could really use it on the draw.
I am not sure about the ramp, it costs a card.
I like the odd Karoo land (eg Boros Garrison, Azorius etc. as they bounce the scry lands) and Nykthos, although to be honest we are only talking ramping into a t5 ideal. Will lens be better? just maybe- but is it worth a card?
actually they kind of work together. authority locks the creature down for a turn, and Nodes kills it a turn later. makes creatures with haste such as reality smasher vulnerable to nodes.
authority of the consuls
porphyry nodes
You guys still there?
It seems someone TOP8'ed an IQ, and the guy from MTGgoldfish shared the deck tech.
76 cards seem a tad odd though. As well as 2x temple of triumph and luminarch ascension as a wincon.
Thoughts?
Edit: Typo.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77