i won a local 4 round tournament 4-0. i like it being played as a control deck with its win condition being enduring ideal. i think its worth splashing a second colour as its easily done, the scry lands are great and very effective in a control deck like this and helps supporting a second colour. red would give blood moon sb but restrict our utility lands, blue would give detention sphere, monastery siege and counterspells, and green and black im sure could give interesting additions.
i am still thinking of sticking with the mono white control shell. im sure elves will pick up in popularity after it won the grand prix, it seems like an extremely bad matchup for us with reclamation sage, fracturing gust and also they generate a ton of mana which suppression field cannot stop. so in reaction to this im playing an open the vaults sideboard to help against enchantment wraths, also works well with peace of mind, and also play some wrath of god's as the board can get quite cluttered when pillow forting, and porphyr nodes is not as good when you play your own copies of wall of omens .
I would like to direct some attention to a very recent Origins spoiler: Starfield of Nyx
This card could give the deck some serious strength. Where it was necessary before to use Mistveil Plains to recycle toolbox pieces, now it becomes advantageous to get enchantments into the graveyard. This card advantage engine also doubles as a win condition very quickly. I believe this is exactly what is needed for this deck to make it in Modern.
I hadn't thought about the Worship interaction. That is awesome. Is this card just a better engine than Ideal itself? Or should the deck start hybridizing between the two. I love how this card doubles as incremental advantage and a win condition, which is exactly what this deck wants. We want our lock pieces and enablers to win us the game, and this does just that.
But between Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety, we have a fair number of ways to prevent attackers. And yes, having our enchantments become creatures is risky, though Starfield itself doesn't become an creature means that it is possible to rebuild quickly. Either as the centerpiece of its own deck or a powerful secondary method of cheating enchantments into play in Ideal, this card should prove extremely powerful and relevant to modern prison decks.
I wrote on the pillow fort thread my analysis of the card. basically I think this card is ideal for fort or UW ideal, and I am not one of these people who gets excited about any new card.
The card is ideal with Monastery Siege- which suits our purpose. It is a wincon in itself, an emergency back up plan.
It allows recycling of an enchantment in the bin once we are Ideal-ing without the wait for Mistveil Plains. we win 90% of the time we resolve ideal. We lose/draw sometimes if they eat our win con first, especially if they destroy any mistveil plains. Dovescape as emergency win con won't work for us post ideal.
It is flexible in that it functions as wincon and control in grindy games, unless they are bin munching. It is not that risky with those Greater Auramancies we run with. I am very pleased about this card. It certainly seems better than those debtor's knells and other odd cards I have seen in some versions.
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Yes. But not after dovescape, unless you are talking S verdict, in which case don't play it.
To be honest it requires bad play be vulnerable to this.
There are a lot of decks that don't run mass removal.
Vs Jund/K you can just jam this.
Vs Twin/Delver ditto
Vs infect ditto
sure vs some decks if you jam it you become vulnerable to mass sweepers, but prob 10-15% of the field at most run sweepers, outside of tron that runs sweepers for all our stuff regardless.
If you play it before resolving ideal you need to win there and then, which is unlikely but possible. You need to judge the likely effect of laying it on the game state. As a card to search for post ideal its a monster as it wins on its own in one shot.
fetch up dovescape-
fetch this up- start to win from the bin
or
fetch up dovescape
fetch up other defensive cards PQRSTXYZ
fetch this up
Or vs jund
fetch this up, get stuff back that has been decayed eg aurmancy
win with or without combo-ing.
Is it better than form of the dragon- no, but it is usable in way more situations.
Our current win cons are
form
emergency bird tokens
emergency decking
concessions
This adds a lot more, and is flexible, what we need.
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I've been working on a multi-colored Enduring deck for a few months now. If you're going to start splashing colors in Green is good for ramping mana. Cards like Utopia Sprawl, Farseek, and Search for Tomorrow really help with pushing out mana fast, leading to casting Enduring Ideal by turns 3-5 opposed to 6+. With Utopia Sprawls you can potentially splash other color enchants, e.g. Paradox Haze to double the effects of Enduring Ideal or Form of the Dragon.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I'm thinking about picking this deck up again, and I'm curious to see whether Starfield is better than Heliod as a win condition. For reference, this was my previous 60:
If I do go the Starfield route, I can probably cut 1 or both of the Mistveil Plains as well as the 4 Flagstones, and I would also cut the Wheel. My initial concern is that Starfield exposes our enchantments to mass removal (the most concerning of which is probably Anger of the Gods), but then again, it seems like we have enough tools to make mass removal cards uncastable. My other, more pressing concern, is whether having a bunch of 2/2s, 3/3s, and maybe a few 4/4s is even enough to win consistently. The opponent can still block, and unlike Heliod's tokens, we really don't want to be chump attacking with real enchantments. Thoughts?
monastery seige would allow us to protect our enchantments if they have relevant removal for them, or use its auto-loots to sneak in free, uncounterable enchantments off of starfield of nyx.
I'm new tow this topic, came into the Starfield Hype Train. I still don't own most cards from the deck, but I'm curious on how the deck can adapt with the new tools avaible in the current meta.
What colors do you think the deck needs to be at the current meta? Monowhite has all the tools we need, but I guess it is too slow to reach enough mana for Starfield or Enduring Ideal. As mentioned, Monastery Siege seems like a perfect card to have with Starfield of Nyx in the deck.
So I'm back to playing around with this deck, but in the mono-white shell rather than the splash red for Blood Moon version. Blood Moon was mainly there for the BGx, Amulet, and GR Tron decks and it performed... okay. All those decks could work around Blood Moon pretty well and since we usually don't put any pressure on until the very late game, they could usually find a solution to the single card. That being said, it could occasionally steal games when backed up with Enduring Ideal around turn 7. Anyway, I played the version above in a modern daily yesterday and went 3-1 and played against a diverse bunch of decks so I thought I would post my matchups for those interested.
Match 1 (Abzan): 1-0
M1G1: So he was playing a different build of Abzan with way more value in the maindeck. Maindeck Sigarda, Host of Herons and Thragtusk were the creatures I saw which were being backed up with way more creature removal and Abzan Charm than normal hand disruption. He Abrupt Decay a couple of my early enchantments, but didn't start applying pressure until turn 6 and I had the turn 7 Enduring Ideal. He wasted a lot of clock trying to fight against the hard lock and playing Siege Rhino to buy him time which will ultimately hurt him.
M1G2: So his deck changed a lot post board. Turn 1, Inquisition of Kozilek. Turn 2, Inquisiton, Thoughtseize. Turn 3, Abrupt Decay, Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I was stuck with Dovescape and 2 Enduring Ideal in hand and couldn't draw out of it.
M1G3: I had opening hand Leyline of Sanctity which is the most important card in the matchup IMO and backed it up with turn 2 Greater Auramancy. Despite all this, he managed to remove both enchantments which unlocked his hand disruption and started to go to work on my hand. By this point, I had a healthy board presence with 3 Suppression Field, a Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety. He couldn't activate his Tasigur to rebuy removal and was having a hard time cracking fetches to attack with Siege Rhinos and Tarmogoyf. I eventually top-decked Open the Vaults which magnified all his problems. I never drew an Enduring Ideal, but he wasted too much time game 1 and clocked out.
Match 2 (Bogles): 1-1
M2G1: This is one of this decks best matchups as you usually don't lose sideboarded games. Anyway... I keep a reasonable hand against the field, but the only relevant card I have in the matchup is Ghostly Prison. On the draw it just wasn't enough against turn 2 Rancor, Ethereal Armor. Turn 3 Daybreak Coronet.
M2G2: This game goes how I expect with multiple copies of Runed Halo and Porphyry Nodes followed up by an eventualy Ensnaring Bridge. He mulliganed to 5 this game and just eventually scooped once I started Nevermore naming Nature's Claim and his creatures.
M2G3: I kept a 6 card hand with Ghostly Prison and Ensnaring Bridge, hoping one of them would be good. Turn 3 at 4 life I played Ensnaring Bridge, shutting off his 8/8 hexproof guy. He cracked a fetch for Dryad Arbor and suited it with Rancor and totem armor for exactly 4 damage under my 4 card hand. Sigh..
Match 3 (Scapeshift): 2-1
M3G1: He opened with forest, Search for Tomorrow and I countered with Runed Halo, naming Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and followed it up with Nevermore naming Cryptic Command. (ALWAYS Nevermore Cryptic Command in this matchup). At this point the game is basically over unless he is running Repeal in the main. Much like M1G1, he wasted a lot of clock trying to fight against the hard lock, but eventually died to Form of the Dragon.
M3G2: On the play his Remand and Cryptic Commands were alot more effective. I managed to stick a turn 5 Leyline of Sanctity, but EOT he played Surrak Dragonclaw (which I wasn't expecting) and started beating me down with him and Snapcaster Mage. I did manage to find Ensnaring Bridge which slowed him down a bit, but he eventually drew Krosan Grip and won. Never saw Enduring Ideal, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have resolved. He was well in control.
M3G3: Opened with double Leyline of Sanctity so I knew this was going to be a long game. Fast forward to around turn 15 where I have Nevermore'd Cryptic Command and Repeal with Greater Auramancy out. However, I am at 6 life because he is beating me down with double Sakura-Tribe Elder (he used 2 Krosan Grip on Ensnaring Bridges so they could attack). I finally draw Enduring Ideal with Boseiju, Who Shelters All and he scoops with less than 2 mins on his clock. This wouldn't have been the first time I take 20 damage from Sakura-Tribe elder though.
Match 4 (GR Tron): 3-1
M4G1: Opponent leads with Urza's Power Plant into Chromatic Star. I throw up a little in my mouth while deciding the correct sequencing for all my enchantments to get Oblivion Stone'd. He cracks the star, plays Ancient Stirrings and passes the turn without playing a land. Overcome with joy, I crack an Expedition Map for a Ghost Quarter and draw my second Ghost Quarter. His draw was truly awful and I manage to turn 6 Enduring Ideal him.
M4G2: I board in all the Nevermores, Stony Silence, and Pithing Needles and don't see any of them in my opening hand. He plays a turn 4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and I lose.
M4G3: Again, I keep a hand with no sideboarded cards, but one Ghost Quarter. Again, he keeps a one lander with Chromatic Stars and Chromatic Spheres and literally doesn't play another land until turn 5. He kept in Pyroclasm too which I do not understand. I still haven't found an Enduring Ideal, but I'm doing a pretty good job Nevermore-ing, Pithing Needling, and Stony Silencing all of his relevant cards. He does have some Nature's Claim, but still doesn't have Tron online thanks to Ghost Quarters. I eventually find Enduring Ideal, but like matches 1 and 3, he spent way too much time trying to fight against the hard lock and eventually times out.
So overall I managed to beat the BGx and Tron decks despite not having Blood Moons. I saw other people playing Open the Vaults in the SB and I have been very impressed with it against the grindy midrange decks. I'm still fairly convinced that we will lose at least 90% of the time to Amulet and 75% of the time to Tron, but I'm not sure if it's worth devoting so much of the SB to those matchups. I think the Bogles match was an anomaly considering I have a ridiculously high win percentage against it in the past and the Scapeshift match went pretty much how I expected also. I'm still a firm believer that Enduring Ideal and Ensnaring Bridge are the best ways to build the Wx Prison-style enchantment decks, but in no way convinced that my builds are optimal. There are definitely a lot of flex spots and the SB is always changing to reflect the meta. I took the deck to an SCG Open a while back and mulliganed into oblivion which is a real concern with the deck (kinda why I put it down for a while). But I still think the deck is fun to play and has a ton of great matchups. Anyway, hope this was helpful for those interested!
EDIT: Also, I've been working on a Starfield of Nyx deck too, but it's still in testing. I'll post back with results once I've played with it some more.
Hi guys, I am new to this thread and the deck, but I am really excited about trying to build a mono white prison deck focused on Enduring Ideal and/or Starfield of Nyx. I was really wanting to try something that was White/Blue so that I could include something like Monastery Siege, Thassa, God of the Sea and Detention Sphere, but as I was brainstorming, I was thinking that Starfield is just a big enough wincon after I get a ton of prisons out on the field. So I was thinking that mono White would be strong enough. My potential build will be something like this:
This is my first time even thinking of a prison type deck, so I'm not sure how great it is, but I would love some feedback from experienced players. Is this reasonable? Am I missing a crucial enchantment that will help me out? I'm still thinking about the sideboard too, is there anything I'm missing that should go there? I still have room for a few cards and room to adjust the numbers.
I'm rather confused.. How is ensnaring bridge any good in this deck? You always have a bunch of spells in hand.
You're generally not playing Ensnaring Bridge turn 3 (when you DO have a bunch of cards in hand) unless your facing down Tasigurs, Gurmag Anglers, Bogles, Primeval Titans, Wurmcoils, or Emrakuls. Bridge is almost always the last card I cast out of my hand besides Enduring Ideal, so I usually have 0-2 cards in hand.
@Ruferd - Looks solid. I am going with a Bant shell for a Starfield of Nyx deck with Utopia Sprawl, Eidolon of Blossoms, Monastery Siege, Detention Sphere and some others. Monastery Siege is the real deal with Starfield and has allowed me to maindeck an Open the Vaults which has been awesome. I'm still trying to figure out the mana base and sideboard which has been frustrating, but I think the deck has some potential. Anyway, I haven't tried the mono-white shell, but I think you definitely want the blue splash at least for Monastery Siege and Detention Sphere. Might be correct to cut green altogether, but I'm still testing
Thanks for the quick reply l3ovine, I see the merits of the Monastery Siege (being able to loot away enchantments and bring them back with Starfield is pretty sick), but I'm not sure what to cut for them. I can easily change the Oblivion Rings to Detention spheres and slide in a one-of Thassa somewhere, but I'm not what to cut to make room for the Sieges themselves...
Or maybe the only blue card necessary is the siege itself. The Spheres are just O-rings most of the time and turning on Blue devotion seems not worth it, since I could just go get Heliod as a big indestructible beater and token maker...The Siege does make drawing an Ideal or Starfield much more likely, so I really want to include them. and drawing a second one is just as awesome. Are there other sweet blue enchantments to consider beside the Siege?
EDIT: is adding green for ramp worth it? Can't a Nykthos power out an ideal or star field Quickly as well without diluting the prison aspect of the deck?
Hi guys, I am new to this thread and the deck, but I am really excited about trying to build a mono white prison deck focused on Enduring Ideal and/or Starfield of Nyx. I was really wanting to try something that was White/Blue so that I could include something like Monastery Siege, Thassa, God of the Sea and Detention Sphere, but as I was brainstorming, I was thinking that Starfield is just a big enough wincon after I get a ton of prisons out on the field. So I was thinking that mono White would be strong enough. My potential build will be something like this:
This is my first time even thinking of a prison type deck, so I'm not sure how great it is, but I would love some feedback from experienced players. Is this reasonable? Am I missing a crucial enchantment that will help me out? I'm still thinking about the sideboard too, is there anything I'm missing that should go there? I still have room for a few cards and room to adjust the numbers.
Tell me what you think.
If you are on the ideal bandwagon then you have to remember it is a combo/prison deck- you want to resolve ideal to win the game quickly soon after and not to lock it. You seem to have most of the usual suspects on the prison side, you might be a bit short on the winning front- not in numerical terms, but in ability.
Locking it is what you do first. Ok, in reality the first thing after resolving ideal is often to fetch dovescape. But you want to fetch a win con that wins by itself. SFN is a great card for ideal- but when you cast it you want to win on the spot or near enough, and it sometimes really does not because of their board. That of course leaves you vulnerable to wrath, with only SFN to get you out, which may not be quick enough. Also worth remembering that SFN is not great in multiples.
There are not many good win cons for the deck.
The win cons are normally limited to
Heliod - good card, great with Nodes (although you need numbers of nodes for that to work). Can win the game with Nykthos and dudes.
Form of the dragon - terrible in that you can't cast it (I did once thanks to blood moon), and it requires phyrexian unlife to combo, but it is the most powerful win con and it is a prison piece itself for those turns where fetching it up saves you. If it gets stuck in hand you need to be able to get it, and that means running monastery siege in blue or using peace of mind in white. The unlife/form combo is almost unbeatable too by a number of decks, and unlife is very strong on its own- remembering that if you go to minus a million it is only next turn that the poisons kick in, by which time you should be back at five life,
Ascension - this is the weakest for my money- does nothing till you start winning, and does not form a lock piece at any point.
Sigil- great card, but no good post epic triggers.
SFN- great card, can be a control piece as well as a win con.
Decking- the 1-0 win.
I think in mono w you have the issue of form getting stuck in hand, but in UW Form/Unlife is the way to go, with SFN and/or Heliod.
Some other minor points
Ascension (and POM) are not stellar with suppression field pre Nykthos, Heliod is a bit less important as eventually you hit Nykthos.
Karma is great board card to consider
Mistveil plains can stop you decking out and put an enchantment in the deck to search for.
Scry temples are fantastic in this deck, believe it or not. Check out the pillow-fort list that hit t8 in a 1k recently- mono w, 8 scry temples!
I would not go that far but they work in enchantment prisons.
Rule of law is better than curse of exhaustion- when will you ever cast two a turn? Ditto eidolon, though it dies to critter kill without GA.
GA is normally a two of, they can give each other shroud.
I played EI in pptq with 40 odd players and lost my win-and-in, prior to SFN coming out.
I used siege and detention sphere too, and had the odd counter in the board, along with spreading seas, helping with tron, which is an evil match requiring ghost quarter and seas to stand a chance. The deck is great, it has a super chance in the right meta, and well played it can win modest events.
@drmarkb: Excellent!! Thanks for such a detailed response, as I said I am new to this idea/deck style, so a lot of these cards/ideas I haven't seen or thought of. So the most consistent win con is to just IE and get Unlife followed by Form of Dragon?
In terms of the scry lands...I was concerned about being a bit too slow and having too many tapped lands might hurt my speed. No that I want to put blue in the list, I was looking at dual lands like Hallowed Fountain and Glacial Fortress, not the scry temples...but I will try them out when I start investing in this deck.
I also didn't think Mistveil Plains was necessary since I could just use Starfield to get enchantments form the graveyard.
I am curious how this deck does against counterspells. I worry that if you tap out for a big EI, they can just counter it. Then what?
Here's what I'm thinking now with your suggestions:
I feel like this is much better and focused than my previous list, but I'm still uncertain about the mana base and the quantities of each spell. Again, let me know what you guys think.
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now that artifacts are really awkward right now cause of kolaghan's command i may have to switch from defense grid back to silence
1x Dovescape
1x Form of the Dragon
4x Ghostly Prison
1x Greater Auramancy
2x Journey to Nowhere
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Phyrexian Unlife
1x Privileged Position
4x Runed Halo
2x Sphere of Safety
4x Suppression Field
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Mistveil Plains
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
11x Plains
4x Temple of Triumph
Sorcery (4)
4x Enduring Ideal
Artifact (2)
2x Ensnaring Bridge
Creature (3)
3x Wall of Omens
1x Aura of Silence
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Greater Auramancy
2x Nevermore
1x Open the Vaults
1x Peace of Mind
1x Rule of Law
3x Sanctimony
2x Silence
2x Wrath of God
The card is ideal with Monastery Siege- which suits our purpose. It is a wincon in itself, an emergency back up plan.
It allows recycling of an enchantment in the bin once we are Ideal-ing without the wait for Mistveil Plains. we win 90% of the time we resolve ideal. We lose/draw sometimes if they eat our win con first, especially if they destroy any mistveil plains. Dovescape as emergency win con won't work for us post ideal.
It is flexible in that it functions as wincon and control in grindy games, unless they are bin munching. It is not that risky with those Greater Auramancies we run with. I am very pleased about this card. It certainly seems better than those debtor's knells and other odd cards I have seen in some versions.
I was too excited at work :(, forgot it affected lands
To be honest it requires bad play be vulnerable to this.
There are a lot of decks that don't run mass removal.
Vs Jund/K you can just jam this.
Vs Twin/Delver ditto
Vs infect ditto
sure vs some decks if you jam it you become vulnerable to mass sweepers, but prob 10-15% of the field at most run sweepers, outside of tron that runs sweepers for all our stuff regardless.
If you play it before resolving ideal you need to win there and then, which is unlikely but possible. You need to judge the likely effect of laying it on the game state. As a card to search for post ideal its a monster as it wins on its own in one shot.
fetch up dovescape-
fetch this up- start to win from the bin
or
fetch up dovescape
fetch up other defensive cards PQRSTXYZ
fetch this up
Or vs jund
fetch this up, get stuff back that has been decayed eg aurmancy
win with or without combo-ing.
Is it better than form of the dragon- no, but it is usable in way more situations.
Our current win cons are
form
emergency bird tokens
emergency decking
concessions
This adds a lot more, and is flexible, what we need.
My Deck (as of 6/21/15)
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Form of the Dragon
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Nevermore
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Paradox Haze
1 Peace of Mind
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Possibility Storm
2 Runed Halo
2 Sphere of Safety
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Wall of Roots
// Lands
2 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mistveil Plains
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Plains
2 Saltcrusted Steppe
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
// Spells
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Farseek
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid
1 Rest in Peace
2 Sanctimony
2 Stony Silence
2 Suppression Field
2 Aura of Silence
1 Story Circle
1 Privileged Position
1 Open the Vaults
Other cards you might be interested in swapping in/out:
Thoughts?
Seems slow/too cute. Assemble The Legion would probably end up being a better piece with that anyways.
14 Plains
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Mistveil Plains
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Enduring Ideal
Enchantments
4 Runed Halo
4 Suppression Field
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Peace of Mind
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Nevermore
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Heliod, God of the Sun
2 Sphere of Safety
1 Privileged Position
1 Dovescape
If I do go the Starfield route, I can probably cut 1 or both of the Mistveil Plains as well as the 4 Flagstones, and I would also cut the Wheel. My initial concern is that Starfield exposes our enchantments to mass removal (the most concerning of which is probably Anger of the Gods), but then again, it seems like we have enough tools to make mass removal cards uncastable. My other, more pressing concern, is whether having a bunch of 2/2s, 3/3s, and maybe a few 4/4s is even enough to win consistently. The opponent can still block, and unlike Heliod's tokens, we really don't want to be chump attacking with real enchantments. Thoughts?
What colors do you think the deck needs to be at the current meta? Monowhite has all the tools we need, but I guess it is too slow to reach enough mana for Starfield or Enduring Ideal. As mentioned, Monastery Siege seems like a perfect card to have with Starfield of Nyx in the deck.
Btw, how does de deck deals with Back to Nature or Patrician's Scorn? Dovescape?
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Runed Halo
3 Suppression Field
Toolbox
1 Peace of Mind
1 Greater Auarmancy
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Dovescape
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Form of the Dragon
4 Enduring Ideal
2 Expedition Map
Land
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Plains
3 Porphyry Nodes
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Stony Silence
3 Nevermore
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Open the Vaults
2 Pithing Needle
So I'm back to playing around with this deck, but in the mono-white shell rather than the splash red for Blood Moon version. Blood Moon was mainly there for the BGx, Amulet, and GR Tron decks and it performed... okay. All those decks could work around Blood Moon pretty well and since we usually don't put any pressure on until the very late game, they could usually find a solution to the single card. That being said, it could occasionally steal games when backed up with Enduring Ideal around turn 7. Anyway, I played the version above in a modern daily yesterday and went 3-1 and played against a diverse bunch of decks so I thought I would post my matchups for those interested.
Match 1 (Abzan): 1-0
M1G1: So he was playing a different build of Abzan with way more value in the maindeck. Maindeck Sigarda, Host of Herons and Thragtusk were the creatures I saw which were being backed up with way more creature removal and Abzan Charm than normal hand disruption. He Abrupt Decay a couple of my early enchantments, but didn't start applying pressure until turn 6 and I had the turn 7 Enduring Ideal. He wasted a lot of clock trying to fight against the hard lock and playing Siege Rhino to buy him time which will ultimately hurt him.
M1G2: So his deck changed a lot post board. Turn 1, Inquisition of Kozilek. Turn 2, Inquisiton, Thoughtseize. Turn 3, Abrupt Decay, Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I was stuck with Dovescape and 2 Enduring Ideal in hand and couldn't draw out of it.
M1G3: I had opening hand Leyline of Sanctity which is the most important card in the matchup IMO and backed it up with turn 2 Greater Auramancy. Despite all this, he managed to remove both enchantments which unlocked his hand disruption and started to go to work on my hand. By this point, I had a healthy board presence with 3 Suppression Field, a Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety. He couldn't activate his Tasigur to rebuy removal and was having a hard time cracking fetches to attack with Siege Rhinos and Tarmogoyf. I eventually top-decked Open the Vaults which magnified all his problems. I never drew an Enduring Ideal, but he wasted too much time game 1 and clocked out.
Match 2 (Bogles): 1-1
M2G1: This is one of this decks best matchups as you usually don't lose sideboarded games. Anyway... I keep a reasonable hand against the field, but the only relevant card I have in the matchup is Ghostly Prison. On the draw it just wasn't enough against turn 2 Rancor, Ethereal Armor. Turn 3 Daybreak Coronet.
M2G2: This game goes how I expect with multiple copies of Runed Halo and Porphyry Nodes followed up by an eventualy Ensnaring Bridge. He mulliganed to 5 this game and just eventually scooped once I started Nevermore naming Nature's Claim and his creatures.
M2G3: I kept a 6 card hand with Ghostly Prison and Ensnaring Bridge, hoping one of them would be good. Turn 3 at 4 life I played Ensnaring Bridge, shutting off his 8/8 hexproof guy. He cracked a fetch for Dryad Arbor and suited it with Rancor and totem armor for exactly 4 damage under my 4 card hand. Sigh..
Match 3 (Scapeshift): 2-1
M3G1: He opened with forest, Search for Tomorrow and I countered with Runed Halo, naming Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and followed it up with Nevermore naming Cryptic Command. (ALWAYS Nevermore Cryptic Command in this matchup). At this point the game is basically over unless he is running Repeal in the main. Much like M1G1, he wasted a lot of clock trying to fight against the hard lock, but eventually died to Form of the Dragon.
M3G2: On the play his Remand and Cryptic Commands were alot more effective. I managed to stick a turn 5 Leyline of Sanctity, but EOT he played Surrak Dragonclaw (which I wasn't expecting) and started beating me down with him and Snapcaster Mage. I did manage to find Ensnaring Bridge which slowed him down a bit, but he eventually drew Krosan Grip and won. Never saw Enduring Ideal, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have resolved. He was well in control.
M3G3: Opened with double Leyline of Sanctity so I knew this was going to be a long game. Fast forward to around turn 15 where I have Nevermore'd Cryptic Command and Repeal with Greater Auramancy out. However, I am at 6 life because he is beating me down with double Sakura-Tribe Elder (he used 2 Krosan Grip on Ensnaring Bridges so they could attack). I finally draw Enduring Ideal with Boseiju, Who Shelters All and he scoops with less than 2 mins on his clock. This wouldn't have been the first time I take 20 damage from Sakura-Tribe elder though.
Match 4 (GR Tron): 3-1
M4G1: Opponent leads with Urza's Power Plant into Chromatic Star. I throw up a little in my mouth while deciding the correct sequencing for all my enchantments to get Oblivion Stone'd. He cracks the star, plays Ancient Stirrings and passes the turn without playing a land. Overcome with joy, I crack an Expedition Map for a Ghost Quarter and draw my second Ghost Quarter. His draw was truly awful and I manage to turn 6 Enduring Ideal him.
M4G2: I board in all the Nevermores, Stony Silence, and Pithing Needles and don't see any of them in my opening hand. He plays a turn 4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and I lose.
M4G3: Again, I keep a hand with no sideboarded cards, but one Ghost Quarter. Again, he keeps a one lander with Chromatic Stars and Chromatic Spheres and literally doesn't play another land until turn 5. He kept in Pyroclasm too which I do not understand. I still haven't found an Enduring Ideal, but I'm doing a pretty good job Nevermore-ing, Pithing Needling, and Stony Silencing all of his relevant cards. He does have some Nature's Claim, but still doesn't have Tron online thanks to Ghost Quarters. I eventually find Enduring Ideal, but like matches 1 and 3, he spent way too much time trying to fight against the hard lock and eventually times out.
So overall I managed to beat the BGx and Tron decks despite not having Blood Moons. I saw other people playing Open the Vaults in the SB and I have been very impressed with it against the grindy midrange decks. I'm still fairly convinced that we will lose at least 90% of the time to Amulet and 75% of the time to Tron, but I'm not sure if it's worth devoting so much of the SB to those matchups. I think the Bogles match was an anomaly considering I have a ridiculously high win percentage against it in the past and the Scapeshift match went pretty much how I expected also. I'm still a firm believer that Enduring Ideal and Ensnaring Bridge are the best ways to build the Wx Prison-style enchantment decks, but in no way convinced that my builds are optimal. There are definitely a lot of flex spots and the SB is always changing to reflect the meta. I took the deck to an SCG Open a while back and mulliganed into oblivion which is a real concern with the deck (kinda why I put it down for a while). But I still think the deck is fun to play and has a ton of great matchups. Anyway, hope this was helpful for those interested!
EDIT: Also, I've been working on a Starfield of Nyx deck too, but it's still in testing. I'll post back with results once I've played with it some more.
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Boseiju, who Shelters All
18 Plains
Prisons (25)
4 Suppression Field
4 Runed Halo
3 Journey to Nowhere
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Sphere of Safety
3 Starfield of Nyx
3 Enduring Ideal
Toolbox (6)
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Peace of Mind
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Dovescape
3 Stony Silence
2 Peace of Mind
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sanctimony
2 Nevermore
2 Porphyry Nodes
2 Aura of Silence
This is my first time even thinking of a prison type deck, so I'm not sure how great it is, but I would love some feedback from experienced players. Is this reasonable? Am I missing a crucial enchantment that will help me out? I'm still thinking about the sideboard too, is there anything I'm missing that should go there? I still have room for a few cards and room to adjust the numbers.
Tell me what you think.
You're generally not playing Ensnaring Bridge turn 3 (when you DO have a bunch of cards in hand) unless your facing down Tasigurs, Gurmag Anglers, Bogles, Primeval Titans, Wurmcoils, or Emrakuls. Bridge is almost always the last card I cast out of my hand besides Enduring Ideal, so I usually have 0-2 cards in hand.
@Ruferd - Looks solid. I am going with a Bant shell for a Starfield of Nyx deck with Utopia Sprawl, Eidolon of Blossoms, Monastery Siege, Detention Sphere and some others. Monastery Siege is the real deal with Starfield and has allowed me to maindeck an Open the Vaults which has been awesome. I'm still trying to figure out the mana base and sideboard which has been frustrating, but I think the deck has some potential. Anyway, I haven't tried the mono-white shell, but I think you definitely want the blue splash at least for Monastery Siege and Detention Sphere. Might be correct to cut green altogether, but I'm still testing
Or maybe the only blue card necessary is the siege itself. The Spheres are just O-rings most of the time and turning on Blue devotion seems not worth it, since I could just go get Heliod as a big indestructible beater and token maker...The Siege does make drawing an Ideal or Starfield much more likely, so I really want to include them. and drawing a second one is just as awesome. Are there other sweet blue enchantments to consider beside the Siege?
EDIT: is adding green for ramp worth it? Can't a Nykthos power out an ideal or star field Quickly as well without diluting the prison aspect of the deck?
If you are on the ideal bandwagon then you have to remember it is a combo/prison deck- you want to resolve ideal to win the game quickly soon after and not to lock it. You seem to have most of the usual suspects on the prison side, you might be a bit short on the winning front- not in numerical terms, but in ability.
Locking it is what you do first. Ok, in reality the first thing after resolving ideal is often to fetch dovescape. But you want to fetch a win con that wins by itself. SFN is a great card for ideal- but when you cast it you want to win on the spot or near enough, and it sometimes really does not because of their board. That of course leaves you vulnerable to wrath, with only SFN to get you out, which may not be quick enough. Also worth remembering that SFN is not great in multiples.
There are not many good win cons for the deck.
The win cons are normally limited to
Heliod - good card, great with Nodes (although you need numbers of nodes for that to work). Can win the game with Nykthos and dudes.
Form of the dragon - terrible in that you can't cast it (I did once thanks to blood moon), and it requires phyrexian unlife to combo, but it is the most powerful win con and it is a prison piece itself for those turns where fetching it up saves you. If it gets stuck in hand you need to be able to get it, and that means running monastery siege in blue or using peace of mind in white. The unlife/form combo is almost unbeatable too by a number of decks, and unlife is very strong on its own- remembering that if you go to minus a million it is only next turn that the poisons kick in, by which time you should be back at five life,
Ascension - this is the weakest for my money- does nothing till you start winning, and does not form a lock piece at any point.
Sigil- great card, but no good post epic triggers.
SFN- great card, can be a control piece as well as a win con.
Decking- the 1-0 win.
I think in mono w you have the issue of form getting stuck in hand, but in UW Form/Unlife is the way to go, with SFN and/or Heliod.
Some other minor points
Ascension (and POM) are not stellar with suppression field pre Nykthos, Heliod is a bit less important as eventually you hit Nykthos.
Karma is great board card to consider
Mistveil plains can stop you decking out and put an enchantment in the deck to search for.
Scry temples are fantastic in this deck, believe it or not. Check out the pillow-fort list that hit t8 in a 1k recently- mono w, 8 scry temples!
I would not go that far but they work in enchantment prisons.
Rule of law is better than curse of exhaustion- when will you ever cast two a turn? Ditto eidolon, though it dies to critter kill without GA.
GA is normally a two of, they can give each other shroud.
I played EI in pptq with 40 odd players and lost my win-and-in, prior to SFN coming out.
I used siege and detention sphere too, and had the odd counter in the board, along with spreading seas, helping with tron, which is an evil match requiring ghost quarter and seas to stand a chance. The deck is great, it has a super chance in the right meta, and well played it can win modest events.
In terms of the scry lands...I was concerned about being a bit too slow and having too many tapped lands might hurt my speed. No that I want to put blue in the list, I was looking at dual lands like Hallowed Fountain and Glacial Fortress, not the scry temples...but I will try them out when I start investing in this deck.
I also didn't think Mistveil Plains was necessary since I could just use Starfield to get enchantments form the graveyard.
I am curious how this deck does against counterspells. I worry that if you tap out for a big EI, they can just counter it. Then what?
Here's what I'm thinking now with your suggestions:
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
2 Island
Enchantments (34)
2 Suppression Field
4 Runed Halo
2 Journey to Nowhere
2 Greater Auramancy
1 Peace of Mind
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Detention Sphere
4 Monastery Siege
1 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
2 Sphere of Safety
2 Starfield of Nyx
1 Form of the Dragon
3 Enduring Ideal
3 Stony Silence
2 Peace of Mind
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sanctimony
2 Nevermore
2 Porphyry Nodes
2 Aura of Silence
I feel like this is much better and focused than my previous list, but I'm still uncertain about the mana base and the quantities of each spell. Again, let me know what you guys think.