MTG Salvation

Quote from gsmashkilla

The problem that Ooze represents isn't just that he eats the cards you would otherwise scavenge. It's that he also hits most of your other threats, while gaining the opponent life and being a potent MD option for a variety of decks.

The main problems with Scavenging Ooze are that it gets fat while graveyard hating and its hate works immediately. Playing your own Deathrite Shamans forces it to be a little more honest, and sticking 2 out of 3 Melira Pod combo pieces forces it to be even more honest, but carefully played, this guys gets bigger than Goyf, and you can't block it forever.

hmm... what about sideboard Ground Seal as a counter to opposing Shamans/Oozes? Then they can't target things in our yard, but scavenge (if I'm reading it right... very possible I'm not...) doesn't say anything about target - "Exile a creature card from your graveyard and pay its mana cost: Put a number of +1/+1 counters equal to that card's power on target creature. Scavenge only as a sorcery."

Feel free to mock me relentlessly if I'm wrong

It appears it is a cost after all. Off the top of my head I thought the cost was just G and Tap but the discard is listed as part of it.

Quote from theroguewriter

hmm... what about sideboard Ground Seal as a counter to opposing Shamans/Oozes? Then they can't target things in our yard, but scavenge (if I'm reading it right... very possible I'm not...) doesn't say anything about target - "Exile a creature card from your graveyard and pay its mana cost: Put a number of +1/+1 counters equal to that card's power on target creature. Scavenge only as a sorcery."

Feel free to mock me relentlessly if I'm wrong

If it doesn't say "target" then it's not a targeted ability.

So yeah, a couple Ground Seals seem good as a sideboard since it hoses attempts to hose our strategy while also hosing a number of other relevant modern decks.

Can this deck incorporate Wine? It looks like a decent option in the fauna shaman builds.
Edit: corrected the link.

What is Wine?

Quote from megatog201

Can this deck incorporate Wine? It looks like a decent option in the fauna shaman builds.
Edit: corrected the link.

I tried with him and the deck just seemed to be trying to do too many things. Bloodghast is fine since it's requirements to get back out of the GY are so easily met but Vengevine is a little more difficult to make happen. You would pretty much have to include Gravecrawler also which means you just had to cut 8 other cards. I think it just takes more away from the deck than adds.

This is my current build:



Just a couple notes. I cut all of the Vexing Devil from my build. He was nice for the cheap scavenge but I found myself needing an actual threat more often than not. Nyxathid has been a decent replacement, he's worth 7 counters as a scavenge and is usually at least a 3/3 on the field. I was hesitant to add Dark Confidant but with the small curve there's really no reason not to. He makes the deck much more consistent in finding things and helping the game plan move along.

The sideboard is a lot of experiments right now. I'm just seeing what I think of Skylasher. I am siding in the Loam + Tec Edge package for Tron and Scapeshift and seeing what I think of that over the more traditional land destruction.

I like Nyxathid! Hadn't thought to try him - another guy that's cheap to scavenge and can sometimes just be a beater/blocker.

Off to dig through my binder!

Well, it seems you either go with a Zombies/Vengevine shell or a Tarmogoyf/Nyxathid shell. I think the latter shell has more potential, but I can see it going either way.



Liliana gives the Tarmogoyf another +1/+1, and if you have a Nyxathid, she can really start dropping the hand count.

And, the Zombie/Vengevine shell:



Hm... maybe Putrid Leech as well? Life total does not matter as much due to the Death's Shadows.

Taishaku, I'll disagree with your list on a couple points based on the games I have played with the combo. First major thing is the only evasion creature you are running is the Treetop Village, which leads me to the second point where IMO Inkmoth Nexus is far superior as a man land. Nexus can end the game in a turn and costs less to activate. I run both but only as a 1 of on the Village.

The last thing is Varolz catches a lot of heat the minute that he comes down. Being able to use his regen is important and probably the main reason that I am running Bloodghast in my list. Being able to sac a creature, regen, and then get it back to regen later is really really nice. It doesn't help to destroy your side of the board trying to keep a Varolz out and win.

This is more of an aggro deck with strong synergies than a combo deck. (I mean... if we're building a flat-out combo deck, there seem to be much faster and reliable options than creatures and Scavenge...)

My problem with Inkmoth Nexus is that it's not particularly useful without sufficient counters on it, and the only card in your deck that can do that is Varolz. Thus, for a good chunk of your games, Inkmoth Nexus is a 1/1 Infect flier that does not produce colored mana.

Bloodghast is so slow, cannot block in a pinch, fails to activate Vengevine or Gravecrawler... in short, I think Gravecrawler is much better.

And let's be honest, regeneration is not exactly the most reliable form of protection. Expect Varolz to die and play around this very likely possibility. (Oh, and I would imagine that the Zombie shell is a lot better at sacking for regeneration shield.)

Taishaku, I like your first list a lot. We've got some similarities post board especially since I've got disfigure in my board right now for the tough hyper aggro MU. With my current iteration I expect to lose G1 to hyper aggro, board in aggro hate and win G2/G3, are you fairing better than me G1?

I haven't really finalized my SB, but my MD is doing really well for me right now. For that reason I think that I'll post my SB when I've finalized both.

EDIT: Regarding Vengevine, I'm going to agree with Hasp here. I could be wrong, but playing 3 creatures a turn seems very difficult.

We'll agree to disagree then. I honestly don't think Vengevine has any place in the deck, but to each his own.

Came up with something like this, Corpsejack to give more counters and Fauna Shaman to dig for creatures/discard.

Quote from Taishaku

Well, it seems you either go with a Zombies/Vengevine shell or a Tarmogoyf/Nyxathid shell. I think the latter shell has more potential, but I can see it going either way.

Mawootad's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (23) 1x Forest 4x Marsh Flats 4x Overgrown Tomb 2x Swamp 4x Treetop Village 3x Twilight Mire 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 4x Verdant Catacombs Instant (6) 2x Abrupt Decay 4x Dismember	Creature (22) 4x Dark Confidant 4x Deathrite Shaman 4x Death's Shadow 3x Nyxathid 4x Tarmogoyf 3x Varolz, the Scar-Striped Sorcery (6) 4x Inquisition of Kozilek 2x Thoughtseize Planeswalker (3) 3x Liliana of the Veil	Sideboard (15) 3x Disfigure 2x Ground Seal 2x Maelstrom Pulse 2x Pithing Needle 3x Rain of Tears 3x Shadow of Doubt

Liliana gives the Tarmogoyf another +1/+1, and if you have a Nyxathid, she can really start dropping the hand count.

And, the Zombie/Vengevine shell:

Mawootad's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (23) 1x Forest 4x Marsh Flats 4x Overgrown Tomb 2x Swamp 4x Treetop Village 3x Twilight Mire 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 4x Verdant Catacombs Instant (6) 2x Abrupt Decay 4x Dismember	Creature (25) 4x Dark Confidant 4x Death's Shadow 3x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Gravecrawler 4x Lotleth Troll 3x Varolz, the Scar-Striped 3x Vengevine Sorcery (4) 4x Inquisition of Kozilek Planeswalker (2) 2x Liliana of the Veil	Sideboard (15) 3x Disfigure 2x Ground Seal 2x Maelstrom Pulse 2x Pithing Needle 3x Rain of Tears 3x Shadow of Doubt

Hm... maybe Putrid Leech as well? Life total does not matter as much due to the Death's Shadows.

Wouldn't fulminator mage be a stronger choice than rain of tears in sb? Same cost, can attack or block in a pinch, and when you're done you can even scavenge with valroz. It's a bit worse with deathrite shaman, gets hosed by anything that stops abilities, and can't hit basics, but I'd think those are mostly non-issues since the main targets for LD (scapeshift and tron) still both run enough non-basics to reliably have targets for fulminator.

With as much hand disruption as we (potentially) have, is land destruction even a necessity in this deck? Granted I do have a misers Ghost Quarter to knock off troublesome lands, and Life from the Loam to recur it... I dunno. LftL also gets back any man-lands that I might have had killed/sacced/etc, so it's kinda handy I think.

Any thoughts as to whether the new Legend rules might effect us and how? Play Varolz and sac him to put a regen shield on the active one? Seems meh...

Quote from theroguewriter

Any thoughts as to whether the new Legend rules might effect us and how? Play Varolz and sac him to put a regen shield on the active one? Seems meh...

Don't think that works, pretty sure legend rule is still state based.

Probably right...so Legend rule change probably doesn't effect us at all except that we can still function in an unlikely mirror match

"Urborg, ToY & Liliana get better" is the only change the legend rule has for us.
LD has a lot of synergy with discard.
Fulminator Mage > Rain of Tears.

Now for my opinions/questions:
Why is IoK preferred over thoughtseize?
Is it a good idea to run Tec Edge &/or Crucible/Loam in lists that already have a lot of LD?
What's the best way to combat Ooze or an opposing DRS? I know there's discard/removal/LD but they also neuter our game plan pretty hard. Phyrexian Revoker?
IMHO it's not worth watering down lists with man lands or small creatures as Varolz is going to be in play anyway if we're scavenging and he's got protection in the form of regenerate and being a black creature. Plus, Shizo's pretty sweet when you've got a 15/15 legendary creature in play.

I think when the point comes that I have to deal with ooze I may just up the Pithing Needles in my SB to 3. The card is great against so many match ups so it's not like I'm hurting the sideboard by adding to the board to combat just a single card.

Tec Edge + Loam won me a match the other day against R/G Tron because I got a Needle out and named Karn and then was able to keep him from massing enough lands to cast Emrakul. I'm probably sticking with it for now just because Loam interacts so nicely with the scavenge when creatures get thrown in the GY.

As for the IoK vs Thoughtseize question, I think it's just because modern has become a format where the most important cards sit in the 2 and 3 drop spots for most decks so if you can hit those with the Inquisition there's no reason to pay the life for Thoughtseize. That's really the only reason I run it over Thoughtseize is because I found myself rarely choosing something with Thoughtseize that I couldn't have grabbed with IoK.

The only problem with that is that I've been having a pretty good time against RG tron anyway (thoughtseize, GQ, shadow of doubt, and ToY+Algae are all backbreaking against them).

Is there a reason you're playing Needle over Revoker?

Thoughtseize hits Pod, Kiki, Angel, Cryptic Command, Scapeshift, Twin, etc.
I guess the main thing I was getting at was:
If you're playing LD+discard, does that make thoughtseize a (minor) win-more when you're not playing IoK because Aggro's your primary concern anyway?

I assume you mean Phyrexian Revoker? For one it costs 1 more and I'm not a fan of using creatures in the sideboard as hate. They get too caught up in other things the opponent might have like removal for the rest of your deck.

So I just played in a Modern Daily and went 2-2. My two losses were to Bogle and some BRU brew where he was basically playing control with direct damage spells and using Deathrite Shaman almost as a Grim Lavamancer and Creeping Tar Pit as a damage dealer. I'm just going to forget I played that second deck because I'll probably never see it again. Both matches were competitive, I went 1-2 in both, but I just had no good answers for what they were doing. I missed having Liliana in the Bogle match because Domri was useless since I couldn't use his -2 on a Hexproof creature. I don't know if it's worth switching up a sideboard just for Bogle though since I don't see it much.


Edit: I guess I should add that the two decks I did beat were UWR control and Melira Pod which is pretty relevant.