Good point, It should be Path to Exile when I started building it I was on a budget Llanowar Elves should be Noble Hierarch I'll make Changes thanks for catching that.
I've tried the knight of the reliquary, but meh. I do love a second Sigarda though. I do need to bust this deck out again. I had to give it a break because everyone was too aware of it. I do need to find a way to keep cryptics and flickerwisps from bouncing worship. I forget the hexproff for enchantments. I would keep worship at 4. I like to have a couple on the field in case something happens.
I do use the mystics because I don't have access to the heirarchs, but otherwise it runs pretty well.
I've tried the knight of the reliquary, but meh. I do love a second Sigarda though. I do need to bust this deck out again. I had to give it a break because everyone was too aware of it. I do need to find a way to keep cryptics and flickerwisps from bouncing worship. I forget the hexproff for enchantments. I would keep worship at 4. I like to have a couple on the field in case something happens.
I do use the mystics because I don't have access to the heirarchs, but otherwise it runs pretty well.
I completely agree with D90Dennis14 on Geist. Its clock is devastating if you can drop him on turn 2, plus the whole Hexproof thing. I am also a fan of Beast Within in this deck.
If you're having trouble with Worship bounces, consider Simic Charm. Its other modes are often relevant, as well. If you do decide to run it, my suggestion would be to cut either Dismember or some O-Rings (or some combination) to fit 3 copies.
I may have to try them out, I mainly use a g/w shell and only have the blue for counterspells postboard, but I may try geist and teh charm out.
I also totally forgot about beast within to be honest.
WIth O-ring I just like to have removal and extra sacrifical enchantments due to possible dromoka's command. D-sphere prolly is a stronger choice, with a bit more mana restriction.
I often had issues with drawing the enchantment too much, and running NDE too low to ever see it, so I think Idyllic solves the problem by effectively making me have 6 Worships, 6 Propaganda type effects and 5 NDEs all at the same time. I also added blue for Traft and countermagic in the Sideboard, as well as Gigadrowse early on in the SB. Any comments or suggestions on how to tune this are welcome. I also cut the Sigarda because I felt like I needed more Thunes to be able to use the Spike Feeder combo effectively. Or maybe I could swap them out entirely for the new Nissa as she's a bit more flexible and less clunky?
Ran my tolls last night and performed very well. I went 3-1 taking down affinty the first round, boggles the second round, losing in a close 3 games to infect, and easily beat burn in the 4th round.
I didnt see melira and only had one in the SB, but will be doing 2.
I have yet another take on Troll Worship. No Blue. Going more toolboxy with Glittering Wish. Big Mana comes from Nykthos for those big spells in the board (Clan Defiance is a great toolbox card). Glare of Subdual is amazing with Nissa, Voice of Zendikar for solving some tough problems (Tooth and Nail: Emrakul (tap down Emrakul forever)) as well as getting damage through to win the game.
Deft Duelist is a rather odd choice but it seems to fit the deck and provides another non-mana dork turn 2 play.
If it doesn't work it will be replaced with Qasali Pridemage or Voice of Resurgence.
Another card I considered is Wall of Denial which can be a good option against Eldrazi and other aggro decks.
I would also like to include a copy of Knight of the Reliquary but am not sure if it fits in this deck.
Bant has been really good. I've treated the deck as a resilient tempo deck so i'm using efficient counters in the form of Mana Tithe and Spell Pierce. Dromoka's command has been really good. I initially had the Worship count at 2, but I really feel that 3 is where you wanna be.
I've been winning a lot so i'm thinking of buying it in paper, any feedback on the deck would be greatly appreciated as I'm fairly new to the archtype.
Thanks for the tips. While Path to Exile does seem sort of counter intuitive to the "pay more" counter spells, in actual playtesting I've found in largely irrelevant for such a tempo based deck. Keep in mind that the land comes into play tapped and you are usually patching a troublesome creature during their turn, and as such they can't utilize that extra mana right away. If mana tithe and spell pierce hit a target that turn then you are golden.
Detention sphere sounds alright as a one of. Another enchantment to take the fall for worship should our opponent brig in hate.
Any justification on why Caraytid? I don't really feel that the deck needs a two mana dork. Sure it's hexproof, but all you really need are the one mana accelerants.
I can see dropping the MB Pridemage count. But was thinking of adding 1-2 EWIT over Voice. Haven't been a fan of voice in abzan company. Just not enough blue decks doing well.
I like the idea of a one of Sigarda as well! Thanks for the input.
Voice of Resurgence is good as it replaces itself when it dies (good against board-wipes) as well as discouraging playing spells on your turn.
Overall it's just a very efficient 2-drop beater.
Witchstalker is another decent hexproof creature (but mostly good against blue-black decks).
Mana Tithe has been great for me, so I'll keep playing with it until it disappoints me. Being able to hit anything on curve turns 1-5 is really sweet.
Do you have a current list or a list you've been happy with before? I've found the deck to actually be pretty decent. Lots of interaction with infect and affinity which I thought would be harder matchups than they turned out to be.
One of the arguments against running non-hexproof creatures that do not have an etb effect is that you are concentrating the hate your opponent runs towards those creatures. If your opponent can't target any of your non-land permanents then the targeted removal that they have are all dead cards. Every non-hexproof permanent you run makes that removal a little more effective. That is one of the reasons I was (at one time) using wall of roots- because even if it gets destroyed I have a chance to use it at least once before it goes.
Interestingly there comes a tipping point where the number of targetable permanents becomes greater, which then makes your opponent's removal less and less effective if you can out-play them. More choices means your opponent has a greater chance to make the wrong one. If you can draw out removal with less important plays then it means less chance your opponent will have that removal for your important threats. The ideal ratio for your opponent is for them to draw as much efficient removal as you do targetable threats- any more targets forces your opponent to play smarter and gives you the chance to out-play them. Any less just assures that those permanents are removed, but as you approach zero those cards become less and less useful. That, however, is besides the point in this case. The best play for your opponent to make late game is to remove your targetable creature when it is the only creature propping up worship. For each creature that can potentially enable that play, you need to have a really good reason for it's inclusion over the alternatives.
Compounding that when there are some small non-zero number of non-hexproof creatures in this deck is that game two you are allowing your opponent to play more threat dense. After all, if their removal is less effective their is less a point in running those cards when they can run more threats and answers that don't target creatures (like proactive disruption and reactive instants). They may not be able to win if you keep a creature in play with worship also in play, but if they are more threat dense they have a better chance of getting you to zero if your worship is never drawn or comes too late.
Re: Mana Tithe- I have found that for the skilled player it is a very good card game one. After that is is absurdly easy to play around, but game one leaving open a single white mana source that cannot also tap for blue can make an opponent more reckless with their plays if what they are playing has a good etb effect (or also has hexproof for that matter). I'm not sure what the appropriate number to run MD is, though.
Anyway, I haven't played this archetype for well over a year, so I have no real clue if this specific meta makes it more effective, the points I stayed are just generally true. Specific metas may make them less so.
I agree with the philosophy where you are trying to mitigate the usefulness of opposing removal. I'm basically opting for the logic that the only non-hexproof creatures I want in the MB are 7 mana dorks and 3 Qasali Pridemage. I find for an aggressive/tempo based shell that another 3 exalted triggers can really go a long way; the sacrifice effect is also extremely relevant as well.
Yay, someone who doesn't just instantly dismiss Mana Tithe - thanks @DrWorm! Looking forward to surprising many more people with the card. I think 2 is fine for the MB.
I've opted to include 3 GQ in the main and 2 surgical in the SB to have more game against Tron. I've taken out 4 x Leyline of Sanctity from the SB and a Razorverge Thicket, Fetchland and Basic Forest from the main to accommodate these changes.
Anyone still playing this deck? It feels quite strong in the current environment and it still feels great stealing wins from what most people expect is a sideboard card.
Mainboarding Spellskite and Simic Charm as built-in protection. Spirit Mantle is my Aura of choice as it gets fast wins even without a Worship. Worst case you stick it to a manadork and have it block forever, haha
Sigarda stands up to both Liliana and Emrakul which is great
What do you guys think? I think the mainboard looks decent, but I want to hear your suggestions and input! Sideboard requires some work after testing, so I only have 5 cards in there at the moment.
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Lumbering Falls
1x Plains
4x Stirring Wildwood
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
1x Elvish Mystic
2x Eternal Witness
2x Sigarda, Host of Herons
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Troll Ascetic
3x Witchstalker
4x Oblivion Ring
4x Worship
2x Dismember
4x Path to Exile
2x Harmonize
I've tried the knight of the reliquary, but meh. I do love a second Sigarda though. I do need to bust this deck out again. I had to give it a break because everyone was too aware of it. I do need to find a way to keep cryptics and flickerwisps from bouncing worship. I forget the hexproff for enchantments. I would keep worship at 4. I like to have a couple on the field in case something happens.
I do use the mystics because I don't have access to the heirarchs, but otherwise it runs pretty well.
I would also add Geist of Saint Traft.
I completely agree with D90Dennis14 on Geist. Its clock is devastating if you can drop him on turn 2, plus the whole Hexproof thing. I am also a fan of Beast Within in this deck.
If you're having trouble with Worship bounces, consider Simic Charm. Its other modes are often relevant, as well. If you do decide to run it, my suggestion would be to cut either Dismember or some O-Rings (or some combination) to fit 3 copies.
CG
I also totally forgot about beast within to be honest.
I also totally forgot about beast within to be honest.
WIth O-ring I just like to have removal and extra sacrifical enchantments due to possible dromoka's command. D-sphere prolly is a stronger choice, with a bit more mana restriction.
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Spike Feeder
2 Eternal Witness
3 Archangel of Thune
1 Near-Death Experience
1 Propaganda
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Worship
4 Path to Exile
4 Idyllic Tutor
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple Garden
2 Gavony Township
1 Island
2 Forest
2 Plains
I often had issues with drawing the enchantment too much, and running NDE too low to ever see it, so I think Idyllic solves the problem by effectively making me have 6 Worships, 6 Propaganda type effects and 5 NDEs all at the same time. I also added blue for Traft and countermagic in the Sideboard, as well as Gigadrowse early on in the SB. Any comments or suggestions on how to tune this are welcome. I also cut the Sigarda because I felt like I needed more Thunes to be able to use the Spike Feeder combo effectively. Or maybe I could swap them out entirely for the new Nissa as she's a bit more flexible and less clunky?
If you haven't already, check this out.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-84-65-tix-modern-troll-worship
CG
I didnt see melira and only had one in the SB, but will be doing 2.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/troll-worship-wish/
Instead of deft duelist, you should be playing invisible stalker
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Here is my take on the deck: http://puu.sh/pxa0G/88d53909ec.png
Bant has been really good. I've treated the deck as a resilient tempo deck so i'm using efficient counters in the form of Mana Tithe and Spell Pierce. Dromoka's command has been really good. I initially had the Worship count at 2, but I really feel that 3 is where you wanna be.
I've been winning a lot so i'm thinking of buying it in paper, any feedback on the deck would be greatly appreciated as I'm fairly new to the archtype.
I would suggest using: Spell Snare/Remand, Beast Within and Detention Sphere instead.
Sylvan Caryatid probably fits the deck better than Birds of Paradise.
I would probably move 3x Qasali Pridemage to the SB (instead of Qasali Ambusher) and replace them with Voice of Resurgence.
Sigarda, Host of Herons is really good in this deck and 1x copy will be a good addition to the deck.
Some recursion in the form of Eternal Witness and Sun Titan can also be good imho.
Detention sphere sounds alright as a one of. Another enchantment to take the fall for worship should our opponent brig in hate.
Any justification on why Caraytid? I don't really feel that the deck needs a two mana dork. Sure it's hexproof, but all you really need are the one mana accelerants.
I can see dropping the MB Pridemage count. But was thinking of adding 1-2 EWIT over Voice. Haven't been a fan of voice in abzan company. Just not enough blue decks doing well.
I like the idea of a one of Sigarda as well! Thanks for the input.
I mainly suggested Sylvan Caryatid because of hexproof which works well with Worship, it also dodges Pyroclasm and can block small creatures like Goblin Guide.
Voice of Resurgence is good as it replaces itself when it dies (good against board-wipes) as well as discouraging playing spells on your turn.
Overall it's just a very efficient 2-drop beater.
Witchstalker is another decent hexproof creature (but mostly good against blue-black decks).
Do you have a current list or a list you've been happy with before? I've found the deck to actually be pretty decent. Lots of interaction with infect and affinity which I thought would be harder matchups than they turned out to be.
Also, is SOFI the sword of choice for the deck?
Interestingly there comes a tipping point where the number of targetable permanents becomes greater, which then makes your opponent's removal less and less effective if you can out-play them. More choices means your opponent has a greater chance to make the wrong one. If you can draw out removal with less important plays then it means less chance your opponent will have that removal for your important threats. The ideal ratio for your opponent is for them to draw as much efficient removal as you do targetable threats- any more targets forces your opponent to play smarter and gives you the chance to out-play them. Any less just assures that those permanents are removed, but as you approach zero those cards become less and less useful. That, however, is besides the point in this case. The best play for your opponent to make late game is to remove your targetable creature when it is the only creature propping up worship. For each creature that can potentially enable that play, you need to have a really good reason for it's inclusion over the alternatives.
Compounding that when there are some small non-zero number of non-hexproof creatures in this deck is that game two you are allowing your opponent to play more threat dense. After all, if their removal is less effective their is less a point in running those cards when they can run more threats and answers that don't target creatures (like proactive disruption and reactive instants). They may not be able to win if you keep a creature in play with worship also in play, but if they are more threat dense they have a better chance of getting you to zero if your worship is never drawn or comes too late.
Re: Mana Tithe- I have found that for the skilled player it is a very good card game one. After that is is absurdly easy to play around, but game one leaving open a single white mana source that cannot also tap for blue can make an opponent more reckless with their plays if what they are playing has a good etb effect (or also has hexproof for that matter). I'm not sure what the appropriate number to run MD is, though.
Anyway, I haven't played this archetype for well over a year, so I have no real clue if this specific meta makes it more effective, the points I stayed are just generally true. Specific metas may make them less so.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Yay, someone who doesn't just instantly dismiss Mana Tithe - thanks @DrWorm! Looking forward to surprising many more people with the card. I think 2 is fine for the MB.
What do you guys think of my updated list? http://puu.sh/pEkEi/e681efb623.png
I've opted to include 3 GQ in the main and 2 surgical in the SB to have more game against Tron. I've taken out 4 x Leyline of Sanctity from the SB and a Razorverge Thicket, Fetchland and Basic Forest from the main to accommodate these changes.
Help me out, fellow trolls!
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Spellskite
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Eternal Witness
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Dryad Arbor
Spells
4 Path to Exile
2 Simic Charm
2 Harmonize
4 Spirit Mantle
4 Worship
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Lumbering Falls
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nevermore
1 Mark of Asylum
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Beast Within
Mainboarding Spellskite and Simic Charm as built-in protection. Spirit Mantle is my Aura of choice as it gets fast wins even without a Worship. Worst case you stick it to a manadork and have it block forever, haha
Sigarda stands up to both Liliana and Emrakul which is great
2x Botanical Sanctum
1x Breeding Pool
3x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
2x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Enchantment (7)
4x Spectral Flight
3x Worship
1x Eternal Witness
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
3x Troll Ascetic
2x Voice of Resurgence
Instant (8)
2x Dromoka's Command
4x Path to Exile
2x Stubborn Denial
Planeswalker (2)
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Dispel
2x Negate
2x Qasali Pridemage
What do you guys think? I think the mainboard looks decent, but I want to hear your suggestions and input! Sideboard requires some work after testing, so I only have 5 cards in there at the moment.
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)