I proxied up this deck and it is so fun. My issue with it, obviously, is the consistency. However, I think Mentor helps tremendously. What are the good matchups for this deck? Like noninteractive decks that aren't quite as fast? What are the matchups like against the top decks?
So what are the plans postboard against the hard matchups? Just leyline and protection spells? What about lightning greaves? You wont be able to equip anything to it but 2 mana permanent protection sounds great.
For a normal decklist I would use either Ktkenshinx's, serenechaos's, or Izzetmage's list as a starting point. With Serenechaos's list you have Tutors, Izzetmages has cantrips in their place, and KT has high threat density. All are quite similar. As for playing the deck, Serenechaos does very well to explain the deck in the OP primer post.
Welcome to the thread! Hope you find the deck fun!
Don't know if anyone else has hit on this yet, but I'm having pretty good success with Jeskai Ascendancy. With Paradise Mantle you net a mana for each 0 cost artifact, and the looting is pretty sweet.
swiftfoot boots is a much better for this deck than lightning greaves. i recomend at least 1 - 2 copies so you can equip paradise mantle and activate it.
With crush of tentacles spoiled, I was thinking- is a stall/control variant of this deck possible? In my initial trial builds, I have been using Leonin elder and golem's heart as our stall fuel. displacement wave works wonders here since it doesn't retract the heart at X<2 and, with sufficient lands, can be used as an effective roadblock against low CMC decks. The general idea is that we can refill the board way more effectively than the opponent can, and we synergise with a reset, so if we fire off the tentacles, we should be able to net a win. More generally, the lifegain stall also gives us better odds of drawing the paladin.
Even without Crush, I think there is some merit in investigating a lifegain version. Let me know if you are interested in a decklist, if so I'll post one once I get a build I'm happy with.
Hard to judge at this early stage, but I think the outfitter could work. I will definitely get a playset to try out when it hits the shelves.
My immediate thought is that it works great with Goblin Gaveleer. Normally I wouldn't put in Gaveleer since it dies too easily, meaning the mana used to equip things to him is wasted. For these reasons I previously thought we were generally better off running Glint Hawk, Myth Realized or cantrips, as our one-drop instead. The outfitter, however, covers the goblin's flaws by giving us card draw on death. The fact that the outfitter's +1/+1 is given to the equipped creature is massively more beneficial than other equipment lords, like Auriok Steelshaper, Armament Master or Kemba, Kha Regent, which pull equipment away from our attackers (Gaveleer, Kor Duelist, Kitesail apprentice, etc).
I personally think Flayer Husk doesn't bring enough value to go into the deck despite the synergy with the outfitter. If we are looking at 1-cost equipment, I think Shuko and Sai of the Shinobi are better options because they can be equipped by actual threats, rather than a 1/1 Germ.
In contrast, I think Mortarpod is great since the germ works wonderfully as a chump blocker and the ability to self-sacrifice gaurantees that we are able to draw a card as soon as the Outfitter hits the board. Maybe not as a 4-of since we don't have enough slots, but I think it feels good nonetheless. Retracting the Mortarpod means we can get several uses out of each germ, so I wouldn't call it anti-synergetic, but the pod doesn't help with the Cheeri0s combo.
With the above in mind, below is a draft quick list I proxied up and was trying earlier today. Refinement is a long way off, and the end result might simply be that the Outfitter belongs in an aggro equipment deck, instead of a Cheeri0s deck, but the below list seems viable enough to me.
I know it's a different take on this list, but "Femme Fatale" doesn't link to any of the MTGO finishes with this deck, the TWoo tests, or the SCG T8 performance, let alone this thread. As a website editor, omissions like that grind my gears.
So, the full spoiler's out. The only card other than those mentioned above that caught my eye was stoneforge acolyte. At first glance it seemed of no value here, but then I though of Jeskai Ascendancy, which would combo with the acolyte to allow us to storm out. Meeting the cohort requirement of having 2 allies might just be too cute to be of value though...
Hi Folks - I've been browsing this thread as I'm looking for a new Modern deck and was struck by the idea of play Dark Confidant in this deck - Pro: hits 0 a lot of the time, fuels combo, finds more Paladins, another must kill card, can be played on turn 1. Con: 3rd color. Anyone tried it out?
Full disclosure: I only read the first page and this page.
I understand there are deck space limits, but why no Myth Realized? It seems generating a giant monstrosity or two that's hard to remove would be a good thing, plus you can Fling it.
Edit:
Popped back to mid-2015 in thread to find that, yes, it was played at one point. Has it fallen out of favor? Why? I'm sure there's a good reason if so, I'm just curious.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
I used Myth Realized alot. I like it, but the main problem with it is that in order to get value out of it, you need to unload your hand, which means if it gets removed, you are left with no fuel to do anything else for the rest of the game- much the same problem with Erayo- it is often all or nothing. For this reason, it is also dead in multiples. It also has no evasion.
While you can Fling it, this takes up more slots in the deck, which makes deckbuilding somewhat more difficult, and hinders consistency since you need to draw both the myth and the fling (and lands) in the right order. It is also worth noting that, say, a fling for 10 doesn't really help you- you really need to hit them for lethal since you won't have much fuel left after you've invested in the Myth. Personally, I found it more reliable to just run additional Grapeshots instead, particularly if you are running Glint Hawk and Repeal, but your mileage may vary.
I just got some cards in and, while more testing is obviously required, I am really liking stoneforge acolyte and Jeskai Ascendancy. Throw in a few Retraction Helixs, and the deck goes from one wincon (paladin) to several, namely:
Importantly, even if you don't draw one of those combos exactly, the ability to mix and match helps out. Not sure of an optimal deckbuild yet- getting exactly the right mana on the right turns has proven to be tricky, and I feel like I want lots of card filtration to ensure that I draw what I want when I want it, but finding the slots to dedicate to serum visions is hard.
This is my first time posting on the forum. I've been running Be_lakor's list from post #1070 and having a lot of fun, but having consistency problems. I've won by giving Mentor + tokens haste about 1/3 as much as by Grapeshot(storm), and never won by creature damage without Mentor. Seeing this list with Serum Powder blew my mind! Has that novelty been tried before?
I just got some cards in and, while more testing is obviously required, I am really liking stoneforge acolyte and Jeskai Ascendancy. Throw in a few Retraction Helixs, and the deck goes from one wincon (paladin) to several, namely:
Importantly, even if you don't draw one of those combos exactly, the ability to mix and match helps out. Not sure of an optimal deckbuild yet- getting exactly the right mana on the right turns has proven to be tricky, and I feel like I want lots of card filtration to ensure that I draw what I want when I want it, but finding the slots to dedicate to serum visions is hard.
From OWG prerelease and trading I picked up a playset of the Acolyte and 2 Stone Haven Outfitter that I planned to do some brewing with. I also play(ed) Jeskai Twin (& Lantern Control) and with Twin banned I'm switching the Jeskai deck to Prowess Unblockable so I was all about trading for Stormchaser Mage, Reflector Mage & the white equipment lords. Having read this I wish I had gone after more Jeskai Ascendancy as I only own one copy.
As a Lantern player, I've gravitated toward your list and value your opinion most. What do you think of Serum Powder? Can it put this deck over the top? The biggest issue I've had is the deck is so sensitive to removal, and this could potentially help with getting a more redundant opening hand and going off quicker?!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/177650-how-many-blue-cards-to-run-fow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/177985-number-of-blue-spells-to-run-with-fow
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-debunking-force-of-will/
These are a few threads on the subject. Seems like the number for 4 FOW is hotly debated, with 16 being the minimum. This speaks well for the lists wanting to run cantrips, Muddle and Erayo. Combined with the four Retracts and maybe a singleton Hurkyl's Recall, you should be able to hit 16.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Welcome to the thread! Hope you find the deck fun!
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Even without Crush, I think there is some merit in investigating a lifegain version. Let me know if you are interested in a decklist, if so I'll post one once I get a build I'm happy with.
My immediate thought is that it works great with Goblin Gaveleer. Normally I wouldn't put in Gaveleer since it dies too easily, meaning the mana used to equip things to him is wasted. For these reasons I previously thought we were generally better off running Glint Hawk, Myth Realized or cantrips, as our one-drop instead. The outfitter, however, covers the goblin's flaws by giving us card draw on death. The fact that the outfitter's +1/+1 is given to the equipped creature is massively more beneficial than other equipment lords, like Auriok Steelshaper, Armament Master or Kemba, Kha Regent, which pull equipment away from our attackers (Gaveleer, Kor Duelist, Kitesail apprentice, etc).
The Gaveleer itself doesn't require us to change to our deck to include- in the 0-cost slot we already have Bone Saw, Sigil of Distinction and Paradise Mantle which can each equip for 1, and Spidersilk Net which equips for 2.
I personally think Flayer Husk doesn't bring enough value to go into the deck despite the synergy with the outfitter. If we are looking at 1-cost equipment, I think Shuko and Sai of the Shinobi are better options because they can be equipped by actual threats, rather than a 1/1 Germ.
In contrast, I think Mortarpod is great since the germ works wonderfully as a chump blocker and the ability to self-sacrifice gaurantees that we are able to draw a card as soon as the Outfitter hits the board. Maybe not as a 4-of since we don't have enough slots, but I think it feels good nonetheless. Retracting the Mortarpod means we can get several uses out of each germ, so I wouldn't call it anti-synergetic, but the pod doesn't help with the Cheeri0s combo.
With the above in mind, below is a draft quick list I proxied up and was trying earlier today. Refinement is a long way off, and the end result might simply be that the Outfitter belongs in an aggro equipment deck, instead of a Cheeri0s deck, but the below list seems viable enough to me.
Feedback wanted and appreciated.
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Stone Haven Outfitter
4 Goblin Gaveleer
3 Mortarpod
Artifacts
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Bone Saw
4 Paradise Mantle
2 Spidersilk Net
4 Sigil of Distinction
4 Mox Opal
4 Retract
2 Repeal
2 Echoing Truth
3 Grapeshot
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
Expedite
R
Instant
Target Creature gains Haste
Draw a card
Does this deck want something like this? Haste to power up Paradise and it cantrips?
Seems good.
Really doubt it. Seems more like an Ascendancy card.
Also, love Jeff Hoogland, but wish his writers would cite some sources.
http://themeadery.org/b/femme_fatale/read/stone-haven-outfitter-outfits-modern/
I know it's a different take on this list, but "Femme Fatale" doesn't link to any of the MTGO finishes with this deck, the TWoo tests, or the SCG T8 performance, let alone this thread. As a website editor, omissions like that grind my gears.
Will look into those decks in the link though, I still hope for a day where a deck including Puresteel becomes competitive in modern.
I understand there are deck space limits, but why no Myth Realized? It seems generating a giant monstrosity or two that's hard to remove would be a good thing, plus you can Fling it.
Edit:
Popped back to mid-2015 in thread to find that, yes, it was played at one point. Has it fallen out of favor? Why? I'm sure there's a good reason if so, I'm just curious.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
While you can Fling it, this takes up more slots in the deck, which makes deckbuilding somewhat more difficult, and hinders consistency since you need to draw both the myth and the fling (and lands) in the right order. It is also worth noting that, say, a fling for 10 doesn't really help you- you really need to hit them for lethal since you won't have much fuel left after you've invested in the Myth. Personally, I found it more reliable to just run additional Grapeshots instead, particularly if you are running Glint Hawk and Repeal, but your mileage may vary.
No Sword unbanned but a Twin banning seems to be good for this deck.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98076
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Bone Saw
4 Kite Shield
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Serum Powder
3 Sigil of Distinction
4 Spidersilk Net
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Noxious Revival
4 Retract
4 Mox Opal
2 Grapeshot
3 Monastery Mentor
2 Echoing Truth
4 Silence
1 Grapeshot
4 Cavern of Souls
Paladin + Retract
Stoneforge acolyte + ally + Ascendancy
Ascendancy + creature + retraction helix
Importantly, even if you don't draw one of those combos exactly, the ability to mix and match helps out. Not sure of an optimal deckbuild yet- getting exactly the right mana on the right turns has proven to be tricky, and I feel like I want lots of card filtration to ensure that I draw what I want when I want it, but finding the slots to dedicate to serum visions is hard.
This is my first time posting on the forum. I've been running Be_lakor's list from post #1070 and having a lot of fun, but having consistency problems. I've won by giving Mentor + tokens haste about 1/3 as much as by Grapeshot(storm), and never won by creature damage without Mentor. Seeing this list with Serum Powder blew my mind! Has that novelty been tried before?
From OWG prerelease and trading I picked up a playset of the Acolyte and 2 Stone Haven Outfitter that I planned to do some brewing with. I also play(ed) Jeskai Twin (& Lantern Control) and with Twin banned I'm switching the Jeskai deck to Prowess Unblockable so I was all about trading for Stormchaser Mage, Reflector Mage & the white equipment lords. Having read this I wish I had gone after more Jeskai Ascendancy as I only own one copy.
As a Lantern player, I've gravitated toward your list and value your opinion most. What do you think of Serum Powder? Can it put this deck over the top? The biggest issue I've had is the deck is so sensitive to removal, and this could potentially help with getting a more redundant opening hand and going off quicker?!