Hey guys, i was looking into some different agroo decks and found this one really cool.
With the reprint of Noble Hierarch i'm considering building it, but i have one question, why no one plays Brimaz on deck ? It seems like a really good card with collected company.
Hi everyone, I've been following this thread for about a week or two, ever since getting thrashed at the LGS with someone playing a janky (I thought at the time) Bant Blink deck.
I was so impressed with the deck - mostly at how fun it looked to pilot - that I took the guy's lead and basically copied a chunk of it. I've posted the deck in the Eternal Ruse thread, but that seems more dead than anything.
I'd like to post it here to get some feedback, and hopefully provide another avenue for pursuing a competitive Bant variant in Modern that veers in the tempo-aggro direction rather than straight beats. I apologize if this has already been posted, but I didn't want to go through 40 pages of material. I'll delete this post if it's pointed out as redundant.
One thing that I will claim is that this is truly a Bant deck, and not just Selesnya with a blue splash. I think that the deck is in keeping with the spirit of the 3 colours and plays to each of their strengths.
I've only tested it on Cockatrice, but it functions as an effective tempo deck, relying on ramping into an early, resilient beater (Brimaz, Geist, Finks), and disrupting the opponent's game plan through countermagic and blinking utility creatures.
Cloudshift: Can't be recurred on its own like Momentary Blink, but the lower mana cost is more relevant in a deck with 22 lands and which relies on very tight play Familiar's Ruse: A one-of because anything more usually leads to it being a dead card; can be an un-counterable bounce spell against removal/wraths to protect high-value creatures Voice of Resurgence: A difficult-to-answer creature against other tempo decks and any others who want to play instants Hour of Need: Provides some much-needed gas in the late game, usually turning dorks into beaters for an alpha strike
Engineered Explosives: Tokens are a problem in a deck without red or trample creatures Dauntless Escort: Wraths, especially Pyroclasm and Supreme Verdict, are usually a blowout against this deck Nevermore: More resilient than Meddling Mage and is virtually unanswerable for Twin and some other combo decks; can get it out turn 2 with a dork in play Rest in Peace: Anti-synergy with Snapcaster and Voice, but too many decks rely on their graveyard; Snapcasters are usually sided out for this Celestial Purge: The growing popularity of Tasigur/Rhino/Twin/Doran makes this an all-star Return to Dust: More expensive than Disenchant or Krosan Grip or Qasali Pridemage, but can hit multiple targets and ensures they can never be recurred/regenerated; kills Wurmcoil dead
You should probably be playing dromoka's command in some capacity - having the angel beat rhino or tas is pretty cool. It answers sweepers like anger of the gods and pyroclasm; against supreme verdict you just have to play a bit conservatively. 4 colourless lands main might be too greedy.
You're probably playing too many 2 mana counters. Hour of need is probably just worse than another 3 drop creature. I might want -3 mana leak, -1 hour, +1 ruse, +2 dromoka's, +1 bant charm. Extra greed might go -1 forest, +1 okina, temple to the grandfathers.
you really want to be playing spellskite in the sb. Infect, twin and boggles all get hosed really hard by it.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
You should probably be playing dromoka's command in some capacity - having the angel beat rhino or tas is pretty cool. It answers sweepers like anger of the gods and pyroclasm; against supreme verdict you just have to play a bit conservatively. 4 colourless lands main might be too greedy.
You're probably playing too many 2 mana counters. Hour of need is probably just worse than another 3 drop creature. I might want -3 mana leak, -1 hour, +1 ruse, +2 dromoka's, +1 bant charm. Extra greed might go -1 forest, +1 okina, temple to the grandfathers.
you really want to be playing spellskite in the sb. Infect, twin and boggles all get hosed really hard by it.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Mana Leak helps answer early threats. A good sequence for me is turn 2 Geist/Brimaz, turn 3 Leak. The advantage over Snake is I still have 2 mana left over to cast things like Voice/Oracle or even another counterspell.
Hour is probably too cute to actually be what I want it to be. At the same time, in a late-game scenario with dorks that've outlived their usefulness, it's 5 mana for 8 flying power on the field.
Skite is a good suggestion, because Infect/Boggles is definitely a harder matchup.
The 4 colourless lands haven't been an issue with 6 mana dorks. Ghost Quarter's a necessity against Tron and manlands, so I'm thinking of swapping one for a Township.
Gonna test Dromoka's Command in place of some Cloudshift. Looks legit.
Plebeianglenn: I saw your deck and really liked the idea of it. I think i would do something like this instead. going with one more land and then abit higher curve.
The sideboard was really fast thrown togeather so it's kinda a mess.
What i think this deck wants/needs are some kind of card draw. I know that i've got 2x wall of omens and 2x oracles. But i was thinking of something like compulsive research or an instant speed draw like jace's ingenuity.
I really like the Dromoka's command and i might see if i can add that. when i got the money for it.
I only played one game with the deck. and played against a 8rack/tokens deck. The Monastery Siege was great. Letting my filter my draws really helped alot! getting rid of not needed lands and spells was awesome
What i think this deck wants/needs are some kind of card draw. I know that i've got 2x wall of omens and 2x oracles. But i was thinking of something like compulsive research or an instant speed draw like jace's ingenuity.
The deck doesn't create enormous real card advantage, no. I'd recommend Mulldrifter if only for the possibility of being able to blink it.
That said, the incremental and virtual card advantage generated by things like Oracle/Wall/Witness/Snapcaster/Snake very much help put this deck ahead, especially in the early turns. Turn 2 Geist is difficult to answer.
Yeah. An hour after I wrote my comment I thought about mulldrifter that with cloudshift and venser is awesome :).
What do you think about chord of calling?
Chord is expensive even with 4 mana dorks, and is usually used to tutor for a combo piece in decks like Podless Pod or Elves, grabbing things like Ezuri or Melira. Being a tempo, not a toolbox deck, there isn't one particular lock piece that can potentially end the game on the spot or next turn.
The best card advantage spell for a Bant weenies list is definitely Collected Company, and wpgstevo has a stellar list on the previous page that I've tested and is very efficient as a beatdown deck. Playing tempo with counterspells, on the other hand, doesn't provide many card slots for Collected Company.
The problem as I see it with a Bant tempo deck that has a higher curve is that it's outclassed in the later turns by many other decks. The creatures in this deck just fold to Rhinos/Tasigurs/Goyfs, and it struggles mightily against Lingering Souls/Timely Reinforcements because of the lack of trample creatures.
The beatdown aspect of the deck functions similarly to Delver decks, in that you want to land a beater early and ride it to victory. IMO Geist is superior to Delver in that respect. Unlike U/R Delver, however, this deck can't rely on burn spells to close out the game and has to push through every inch with pure creature damage.
I've thought about cutting Oracles entirely for a card that can handle Rhinos/Tasigurs. The ramp that Oracle provides can be nice in setting up counterspells, but there have been times I wished it was a 4/4 Smiter instead.
Lets keep things in perspective when we talk about how "awesome" mulldrifter and coiling oracle are. The board state required to be using venser, the sojourner on a mulldrifter is no trivial matter to set up. Maybe you put mulldrifter into play with evoke and cloudshifted to keep it at a 4 mana and 2 card investment, but is that really what we want to be ramping into? If the deck is behind on the board, it takes a long time to stabilze. Coiling oracle plays too often as "draw a card, gain 3 life" at sorcery speed since he'll just chump and die most of the time.
The long and short of this is that in modern you won't have time to do this most games. The payoff of drawing a few cards is not worth the effort to set it up when you will often be having to defend from dying by this phase of the game. This sort of strategy will be good when ahead but entirely lackluster when behind. Since this deck is not designed to consistently pressure early game against other modern decks, the deck will often find itself playing from behind with cards lacking an efficacy to do anything about it.
Too much durdle, not enough threats that require answers.
I'm really excited to try out Collected Company with Geist of Saint Traft. There are 27 legal targets for CC which is plenty. The manabase will definitely include fetchlands so there are no Leonin Arbiters. Colourless lands would be mediocre in a 3 colour deck like this anyways. Geist is protected with Restoration Angel and Path to Exile in this deck and that may not be enough. Exalted triggers can help. There are other powerful hatebears in the SB which are targets for CC. The manabase still needs work. Also being able to force spike your opponent with Judge's Familiar off of a CC seems too great to not try. Any feedback would be great.
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Modern: Bant Company GWU Dredgevine GBR Affinity 0 Grixis Control UBR
You should sideboard in preparation of the deck's potential worst matchups, including dedicated combo (Twin/Bloom/Tron), pure control (U/W/x), and non-interactive aggro (Infect/Affinity/Boggles).
Some number of Burrenton Forge-Tender or Dauntless Escort should make its way into the SB to protect against wraths.
Spellskite is an all-star against the 3 aggro decks I listed.
Gaddock Teeg is obviously awkward with Collected Company, but stops so many cards that it's worth considering.
You'll probably also want to prepare against creature tokens, because you have very few ways of going above or punching through them. Giving Junk or U/R Delver a couple of turns because your 5/5 Smiter can't get through their 1/1s can spell death. Engineered Explosives is good, but so is Echoing Truth.
You should sideboard in preparation of the deck's potential worst matchups, including dedicated combo (Twin/Bloom/Tron), pure control (U/W/x), and non-interactive aggro (Infect/Affinity/Boggles).
Some number of Burrenton Forge-Tender or Dauntless Escort should make its way into the SB to protect against wraths.
Spellskite is an all-star against the 3 aggro decks I listed.
Gaddock Teeg is obviously awkward with Collected Company, but stops so many cards that it's worth considering.
You'll probably also want to prepare against creature tokens, because you have very few ways of going above or punching through them. Giving Junk or U/R Delver a couple of turns because your 5/5 Smiter can't get through their 1/1s can spell death. Engineered Explosives is good, but so is Echoing Truth.
Thanks. Those are great suggestions. I definitely need some Spellskite in the 75. I have Meddling Mage in the SB for the combo matchups. Engineered explosives seems great against tokens so I'll try one of those. Not too sure about Echoing Truth with this manabase. Those legendary lands seem amazing tho.
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Modern: Bant Company GWU Dredgevine GBR Affinity 0 Grixis Control UBR
Lets keep things in perspective when we talk about how "awesome" mulldrifter and coiling oracle are. The board state required to be using venser, the sojourner on a mulldrifter is no trivial matter to set up. Maybe you put mulldrifter into play with evoke and cloudshifted to keep it at a 4 mana and 2 card investment, but is that really what we want to be ramping into? If the deck is behind on the board, it takes a long time to stabilze. Coiling oracle plays too often as "draw a card, gain 3 life" at sorcery speed since he'll just chump and die most of the time.
The long and short of this is that in modern you won't have time to do this most games. The payoff of drawing a few cards is not worth the effort to set it up when you will often be having to defend from dying by this phase of the game. This sort of strategy will be good when ahead but entirely lackluster when behind. Since this deck is not designed to consistently pressure early game against other modern decks, the deck will often find itself playing from behind with cards lacking an efficacy to do anything about it.
Too much durdle, not enough threats that require answers.
The addition of Dromoka's Command has considerably upped the power level of my blink deck. Thanks for the suggestion.
Command allows my creatures to take on those in decks like Jund and Abzan. It's also stellar against any red wraths, and does work against Twin and Boggles.
It's the kind of card Bant needs to become more competitive. It fulfills so many functions - removal, buffing, protection - that it should see more Modern play.
plebeianglenn : could you post your current list? With the commands
Sure. Just as a disclaimer, I haven't built this IRL yet, because I'm not convinced its power level can take on upper-tier decks (also, many of the cards are $$$). It's a hell of a lot of fun to play, which is why I plan to tinker with it for some time to come, and hope that new cards are released which can make it more viable.
As an aside, I see that Mystic Snake is being printed in MM15 as a RARE. I wonder what could account for this? Perhaps M16 or the next Zendikar block will include better support for Simic/Bant?
Over the weekend I tinkered with Bant some more and moved away from the blink mechanic, which I feel relies on too many underpowered creatures and moving pieces, and thus has a very low power level and is vulnerable to disruption.
I liked the aggressiveness of wpgstevo's deck, and wanted to use it as a template for an aggressive Bant deck that packs some permission and a more robust removal suite.
The main thing is this deck doesn't use Collected Company, and thus can run out of gas against decks that pack a lot of creature hate. On the other hand, I've packed in 8 counterspells, 4 straight removal spells, and 2 utility (Dromoka's Command). In testing, it plays aggressive enough - landing Geists, Smiters, Brimaz, or Finks turn 2, while leaving the mana up afterward to cast things like Mana Leak, Dromoka's Command, and Mystic Snake. The idea is I'm compensating for the lack of pure card advantage with early and overwhelming pressure, and mid-game disruption.
You might consider venser, shaper savant instead of the second snake. Venser is a better tempo card as you can "remand" uncounterable spells and bounce blockers and other problem permanents (lands even!) when the board position is favourable. Or you could go with a restoration angel for a bit more flexibility. Bant charm and ojutai's command are worth considering in your build.
edit: When I get home I'll post my Bant tempo build (as opposed to hatebears). I think the hatebears approach is simply better - and I lack tarmogoyf to really make the best tempo build.
Hey! I've been experimenting with all kinds of builds for quite some time here and I'd just like to throw out some opinions. I hope that someone can give supporting or counter arguments to change my thoughts on the matter. I'd like to start a discussion in which we can all collectively start to form a particular strong list and put our efforts towards perfecting it. So here we go!
The Negatives:
First thing I hope everyone has realized, Bant aggro does not work.
Bant creature heavy midrange isn't bad, but Junk/Jund easily grind us out and have overall better matchups with their better midrange options.
Bant combo is non-existent, there just isn't a strong/cheap/consistent enough interaction.
Bant Troll/Worship and Hatebears is simply better as straight GW.
Collected Company is just okay. It is not a defining piece for Bant, its home is in G Elves. Building a deck around it is not a good idea. Bant doesn't have enough synergy to max on creatures. HOWEVER, I would agree that it might have a home as a 2-of in certain midrange lists.
Planewalkers are somewhat iffy for Bant, these need more testing:
Bant "flicker" or "blink" isn't strong enough to be tier competitive. The required 2+ card investment to crank ETB effects puts too heavy of a reliance on set-ups and leaves us empty handed. If you are going to blink, do it right and blink a morphed Akroma, Angel of Fury. However, a minor "flicker" or "blink" theme can add to and strengthen some midrange lists.
Knight of the Reliquary is hard to justify because there are so few utility lands worth searching for in our colours
Geist of Saint Traft is good, but not a godsend. It can't stabilize the board and requires set-up to keep it from dying. It is still awesome though, don't get me wrong! I would still play this card, I'm just pointing out that it takes careful planning to include.
The Positives:
Bant control has potential. Most lists are outdone by UW control, but I'm confident a Bant control list is plausible.
Bant swords works well in Legacy, but in Modern it struggles to make room for and rely on equipment.
I think that a combined Control-with-Swords list would make a stronger list than either archetype on their own.
Bant ramp/conscription has already shown it has potential but the set-up becomes delicate when the opponent knows where to target.
A playset of Vapor Snag should be considered for all lists. It can fizzle lots of spells to save our creatures or deal a point of damage to set the opponent back on tempo.
Tarmogoyf is good, and I'd say run it over Scavenging Ooze if you have to make the choice between the two.
Lists should consider 4x Qasali Pridemage in the mainboard, it really helps against so many matchups!
These are just my rambling thoughts, so please feel free to agree or disagree! I don't want to talk about prices with this, please consider money as a non-issue. I want to generate discussion for better defined Bant
The points you make are legit. I've come around to the idea that Bant lacks a certain something to make it competitive. This was echoed 1 or 2 pages back by the creator of this thread.
If you look at the G/W/U colour combination, it's not as strong as if you were to take any 2 of those colours and combine them with another. For example, U/W/R and G/B/W will always have a stronger removal suite, making them ideal shards/wedges for tempo and midrange decks.
The printing of Dromoka's Command makes things a little better, and it's a great utility spell, but it's a subpar removal spell, which is what I think most of us want from it. Still, I'm confident that it might be the card midrange/tempo lists need. The printing of a strong 1 or 2 cmc white-based removal spell would be just the thing Bant needs and give it the equivalent of Decay.
Vapor Snag has performed best in Delver and Merfolk, because they present a much faster clock than anything Bant can produce. Why should I play a Bant shell with Vapor Snag when I can just play red or black and get access to Bolt or Decay? Obviously because I enjoy playing the colours, but you get my drift.
Virtually every Bant deck plays Hierarch or Birds turn 1. The problem with this is it presupposes a strong turn 2 play, wholly reliant on these dorks. When (not if) they get bolted, or the opponent discards our turn 2 play via Thoughtseize, we're basically left dead in the water for the next turn or two. This is a huge vulnerability, and the best decks in the format can take advantage of it.
Goyf only works in lists that run a variety of card types. Compare RUG Delver with Goyf to Jund/Junk with Goyf. RUG Goyf will never be as big as its Junk/Jund counterpart, and that's a huge hit.
With the reprint of Noble Hierarch i'm considering building it, but i have one question, why no one plays Brimaz on deck ? It seems like a really good card with collected company.
But it was nice to get your inputs and I hope that I came with some ideas.
You could all so think about courser of kruphix
I was so impressed with the deck - mostly at how fun it looked to pilot - that I took the guy's lead and basically copied a chunk of it. I've posted the deck in the Eternal Ruse thread, but that seems more dead than anything.
I'd like to post it here to get some feedback, and hopefully provide another avenue for pursuing a competitive Bant variant in Modern that veers in the tempo-aggro direction rather than straight beats. I apologize if this has already been posted, but I didn't want to go through 40 pages of material. I'll delete this post if it's pointed out as redundant.
One thing that I will claim is that this is truly a Bant deck, and not just Selesnya with a blue splash. I think that the deck is in keeping with the spirit of the 3 colours and plays to each of their strengths.
I've only tested it on Cockatrice, but it functions as an effective tempo deck, relying on ramping into an early, resilient beater (Brimaz, Geist, Finks), and disrupting the opponent's game plan through countermagic and blinking utility creatures.
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Coiling Oracle
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Restoration Angel
2x Mystic Snake
Instants: 14
4x Path to Exile
3x Cloudshift
3x Mana Leak
2x Remand
1x Familiar's Ruse
1x Hour of Need
2x Forest
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Eiganjo Castle
3x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Windswept Heath
1x Breeding Pool
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Temple Garden
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Gavony Township
2x Dauntless Escort
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Nevermore
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Celestial Purge
1x Return to Dust
1x Ghost Quarter
Card Explanations:
Cloudshift: Can't be recurred on its own like Momentary Blink, but the lower mana cost is more relevant in a deck with 22 lands and which relies on very tight play
Familiar's Ruse: A one-of because anything more usually leads to it being a dead card; can be an un-counterable bounce spell against removal/wraths to protect high-value creatures
Voice of Resurgence: A difficult-to-answer creature against other tempo decks and any others who want to play instants
Hour of Need: Provides some much-needed gas in the late game, usually turning dorks into beaters for an alpha strike
Engineered Explosives: Tokens are a problem in a deck without red or trample creatures
Dauntless Escort: Wraths, especially Pyroclasm and Supreme Verdict, are usually a blowout against this deck
Nevermore: More resilient than Meddling Mage and is virtually unanswerable for Twin and some other combo decks; can get it out turn 2 with a dork in play
Rest in Peace: Anti-synergy with Snapcaster and Voice, but too many decks rely on their graveyard; Snapcasters are usually sided out for this
Celestial Purge: The growing popularity of Tasigur/Rhino/Twin/Doran makes this an all-star
Return to Dust: More expensive than Disenchant or Krosan Grip or Qasali Pridemage, but can hit multiple targets and ensures they can never be recurred/regenerated; kills Wurmcoil dead
You're probably playing too many 2 mana counters. Hour of need is probably just worse than another 3 drop creature. I might want -3 mana leak, -1 hour, +1 ruse, +2 dromoka's, +1 bant charm. Extra greed might go -1 forest, +1 okina, temple to the grandfathers.
you really want to be playing spellskite in the sb. Infect, twin and boggles all get hosed really hard by it.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Thanks for the suggestions.
Mana Leak helps answer early threats. A good sequence for me is turn 2 Geist/Brimaz, turn 3 Leak. The advantage over Snake is I still have 2 mana left over to cast things like Voice/Oracle or even another counterspell.
Hour is probably too cute to actually be what I want it to be. At the same time, in a late-game scenario with dorks that've outlived their usefulness, it's 5 mana for 8 flying power on the field.
Skite is a good suggestion, because Infect/Boggles is definitely a harder matchup.
The 4 colourless lands haven't been an issue with 6 mana dorks. Ghost Quarter's a necessity against Tron and manlands, so I'm thinking of swapping one for a Township.
Gonna test Dromoka's Command in place of some Cloudshift. Looks legit.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Breeding Pool
2 Temple Garden
2 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Plains
instant/sorcery: 12
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
4 Path to Exile
2 Familiar's Ruse
2 Cloudshift
2 Venser, the Sojourner
Creatures: 23
2 Wall of Omens
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thragtusk
2 Restoration Angel
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Arbor Elf
1 Mystic Snake
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Monastery Siege
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Spellskite
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
Plebeianglenn: I saw your deck and really liked the idea of it. I think i would do something like this instead. going with one more land and then abit higher curve.
The sideboard was really fast thrown togeather so it's kinda a mess.
What i think this deck wants/needs are some kind of card draw. I know that i've got 2x wall of omens and 2x oracles. But i was thinking of something like compulsive research or an instant speed draw like jace's ingenuity.
I really like the Dromoka's command and i might see if i can add that. when i got the money for it.
I only played one game with the deck. and played against a 8rack/tokens deck. The Monastery Siege was great. Letting my filter my draws really helped alot! getting rid of not needed lands and spells was awesome
The deck doesn't create enormous real card advantage, no. I'd recommend Mulldrifter if only for the possibility of being able to blink it.
That said, the incremental and virtual card advantage generated by things like Oracle/Wall/Witness/Snapcaster/Snake very much help put this deck ahead, especially in the early turns. Turn 2 Geist is difficult to answer.
What do you think about chord of calling?
Chord is expensive even with 4 mana dorks, and is usually used to tutor for a combo piece in decks like Podless Pod or Elves, grabbing things like Ezuri or Melira. Being a tempo, not a toolbox deck, there isn't one particular lock piece that can potentially end the game on the spot or next turn.
The best card advantage spell for a Bant weenies list is definitely Collected Company, and wpgstevo has a stellar list on the previous page that I've tested and is very efficient as a beatdown deck. Playing tempo with counterspells, on the other hand, doesn't provide many card slots for Collected Company.
The problem as I see it with a Bant tempo deck that has a higher curve is that it's outclassed in the later turns by many other decks. The creatures in this deck just fold to Rhinos/Tasigurs/Goyfs, and it struggles mightily against Lingering Souls/Timely Reinforcements because of the lack of trample creatures.
The beatdown aspect of the deck functions similarly to Delver decks, in that you want to land a beater early and ride it to victory. IMO Geist is superior to Delver in that respect. Unlike U/R Delver, however, this deck can't rely on burn spells to close out the game and has to push through every inch with pure creature damage.
I've thought about cutting Oracles entirely for a card that can handle Rhinos/Tasigurs. The ramp that Oracle provides can be nice in setting up counterspells, but there have been times I wished it was a 4/4 Smiter instead.
The long and short of this is that in modern you won't have time to do this most games. The payoff of drawing a few cards is not worth the effort to set it up when you will often be having to defend from dying by this phase of the game. This sort of strategy will be good when ahead but entirely lackluster when behind. Since this deck is not designed to consistently pressure early game against other modern decks, the deck will often find itself playing from behind with cards lacking an efficacy to do anything about it.
Too much durdle, not enough threats that require answers.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Restoration Angel
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
Land (23)
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Judge's Familiar
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Hushwing Gryff
1 Kataki, War's Sage
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Meddling Mage
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Rest In Peace
1 Stony Silence
I'm really excited to try out Collected Company with Geist of Saint Traft. There are 27 legal targets for CC which is plenty. The manabase will definitely include fetchlands so there are no Leonin Arbiters. Colourless lands would be mediocre in a 3 colour deck like this anyways. Geist is protected with Restoration Angel and Path to Exile in this deck and that may not be enough. Exalted triggers can help. There are other powerful hatebears in the SB which are targets for CC. The manabase still needs work. Also being able to force spike your opponent with Judge's Familiar off of a CC seems too great to not try. Any feedback would be great.
You should sideboard in preparation of the deck's potential worst matchups, including dedicated combo (Twin/Bloom/Tron), pure control (U/W/x), and non-interactive aggro (Infect/Affinity/Boggles).
Some number of Burrenton Forge-Tender or Dauntless Escort should make its way into the SB to protect against wraths.
Spellskite is an all-star against the 3 aggro decks I listed.
Gaddock Teeg is obviously awkward with Collected Company, but stops so many cards that it's worth considering.
You'll probably also want to prepare against creature tokens, because you have very few ways of going above or punching through them. Giving Junk or U/R Delver a couple of turns because your 5/5 Smiter can't get through their 1/1s can spell death. Engineered Explosives is good, but so is Echoing Truth.
Eiganjo Castle or Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers make sense because you're running 7 legendaries.
Thanks. Those are great suggestions. I definitely need some Spellskite in the 75. I have Meddling Mage in the SB for the combo matchups. Engineered explosives seems great against tokens so I'll try one of those. Not too sure about Echoing Truth with this manabase. Those legendary lands seem amazing tho.
The addition of Dromoka's Command has considerably upped the power level of my blink deck. Thanks for the suggestion.
Command allows my creatures to take on those in decks like Jund and Abzan. It's also stellar against any red wraths, and does work against Twin and Boggles.
It's the kind of card Bant needs to become more competitive. It fulfills so many functions - removal, buffing, protection - that it should see more Modern play.
Still having trouble with U/W/x control, but Dauntless Escort, Spellskite, and Gaddock Teeg in from the SB at least give me a fighting chance.
Sure. Just as a disclaimer, I haven't built this IRL yet, because I'm not convinced its power level can take on upper-tier decks (also, many of the cards are $$$). It's a hell of a lot of fun to play, which is why I plan to tinker with it for some time to come, and hope that new cards are released which can make it more viable.
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Coiling Oracle
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Restoration Angel
2 Mystic Snake
Instants: 14
4 Path to Exile
3 Cloudshift
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Plains
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
2 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
2 Dauntless Escort
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Spellskite
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
2 Echoing Truth
1 Fracturing Gust
As an aside, I see that Mystic Snake is being printed in MM15 as a RARE. I wonder what could account for this? Perhaps M16 or the next Zendikar block will include better support for Simic/Bant?
I liked the aggressiveness of wpgstevo's deck, and wanted to use it as a template for an aggressive Bant deck that packs some permission and a more robust removal suite.
The main thing is this deck doesn't use Collected Company, and thus can run out of gas against decks that pack a lot of creature hate. On the other hand, I've packed in 8 counterspells, 4 straight removal spells, and 2 utility (Dromoka's Command). In testing, it plays aggressive enough - landing Geists, Smiters, Brimaz, or Finks turn 2, while leaving the mana up afterward to cast things like Mana Leak, Dromoka's Command, and Mystic Snake. The idea is I'm compensating for the lack of pure card advantage with early and overwhelming pressure, and mid-game disruption.
Feedback and scathing criticism much appreciated.
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Mystic Snake
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Instants: 12
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Familiar's Ruse
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Gavony Township
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Dauntless Escort
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
2 Echoing Truth
1 Fracturing Gust
edit: When I get home I'll post my Bant tempo build (as opposed to hatebears). I think the hatebears approach is simply better - and I lack tarmogoyf to really make the best tempo build.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
The Negatives:
The Positives:
These are just my rambling thoughts, so please feel free to agree or disagree! I don't want to talk about prices with this, please consider money as a non-issue. I want to generate discussion for better defined Bant
If you look at the G/W/U colour combination, it's not as strong as if you were to take any 2 of those colours and combine them with another. For example, U/W/R and G/B/W will always have a stronger removal suite, making them ideal shards/wedges for tempo and midrange decks.
The printing of Dromoka's Command makes things a little better, and it's a great utility spell, but it's a subpar removal spell, which is what I think most of us want from it. Still, I'm confident that it might be the card midrange/tempo lists need. The printing of a strong 1 or 2 cmc white-based removal spell would be just the thing Bant needs and give it the equivalent of Decay.
Vapor Snag has performed best in Delver and Merfolk, because they present a much faster clock than anything Bant can produce. Why should I play a Bant shell with Vapor Snag when I can just play red or black and get access to Bolt or Decay? Obviously because I enjoy playing the colours, but you get my drift.
Virtually every Bant deck plays Hierarch or Birds turn 1. The problem with this is it presupposes a strong turn 2 play, wholly reliant on these dorks. When (not if) they get bolted, or the opponent discards our turn 2 play via Thoughtseize, we're basically left dead in the water for the next turn or two. This is a huge vulnerability, and the best decks in the format can take advantage of it.
Goyf only works in lists that run a variety of card types. Compare RUG Delver with Goyf to Jund/Junk with Goyf. RUG Goyf will never be as big as its Junk/Jund counterpart, and that's a huge hit.