UU is ok, I sometimes play Cliques on the SB and don't have problems. RR I wouldn't risk.
By contrast, with my mana base (Shivan Reef instead of fetches), I'd be a lot less hesitant since in most games I never see one of my basic islands and the rest of my coloured sources produce both colours. If the card was good enough, I'd definitely test it.
Was there a particular card that prompted your question, Sidneyious?
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Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Wins (all matches):
1 vs Mono U Tron. My wincons are bigger, and sometimes come down faster.
1 vs UBW Control. Got pretty dominated G1, but postboard Blood Moon does work.
2 vs UB Mill Control. Turns out Eldrazi are a strong favourite against mill. Who'd have thunk? They will side Leyline of the Void and possibly Nihil Spellbomb against you, the former is scary but it is hard for them to play through with the spellbomb if they don't find the leyline.
Thats all I had time for before the servers went down for maintenance~
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Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Interesting to see you're using Blood Moon. I guess there are a couple matchups in which it hurts the opponent more than ourselves. I played versus a RB aggro deck yesterday, punted G1 (forgot to fetch Emrakul with Eye at his EOT with Breach in my hand - I had Tron plus Steam Vents and he was at 14 from fetches and shocks), then won both games 2 and 3 over Blood Moon.
Interesting to see you're using Blood Moon. I guess there are a couple matchups in which it hurts the opponent more than ourselves. I played versus a RB aggro deck yesterday, punted G1 (forgot to fetch Emrakul with Eye at his EOT with Breach in my hand - I had Tron plus Steam Vents and he was at 14 from fetches and shocks), then won both games 2 and 3 over Blood Moon.
Yeah, we can operate with blood moon online - it largely rules out hard casting Emrakul, unless your opponent is playing a very slow control heavy deck, but we can still breach with relative easy, and signets solve the color issue well enough if you don't have any of your islands.
If I have felt the need to side it in, I never balk at playing it. It definitely slows us down, but I only really bring it in if it stands to utterly hose my opponent.
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Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Thanks guys for noticing this. I am the guy that won this GPT and i had a lot of fun with this deck, I am a Vintage player and this was like my second tournament with this deck (in the previous tournament i finished 9th on a SCG qualifier in Milan couple of weeks before).
I really love this deck, to the point i am also playing it in MTGO (currently i have only done 3 tournaments online and currently sitting at 4-0, 3-1, 3-1).
Blood Moon is strong against the match-up listed above, it is not strong at all against Melira (which is my biggest dilemma and i disagree it is an easy match up). Effectively Blood Moon do not disrupt my line of play much i need 5 mana to win, and wiht loads of tempo cards like remand, repeal and 7 draw3 i can easily get to 5 mana unless i get very unlucky.
The match-up i really suffer is affinity, is way too fast to contain and requires to see solutions early (possybly hurkyl/grudge and later vandalblast). Also the UR Storm can be tricky to deal with.
Hey man, great to have you here, thanks for coming by!
Are you playing 61 cards indeed? Is Gifts pulling its weight?
Burn and Twin are the hardest matchups to me. Affinity is hard but with 4 Pyroclasm MD + a SB with 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 Pithing Needle and 1 Vandalblast it's manageable.
Hope to see WOTC publishing your list on the Daily Events page so we can have more people playing the deck (although the surprise factor is huge).
I don't like Blood Moon versus Melira either. They play a lot of mana dorks so it's easy to punish ourselves instead of them. I just played a quick 2 man queue online and bashed Melira thanks to a Pyroclasm game one (taking 2 Birds, 2 DRS, 1 Voice) and a turn 5 Emrakul on game 2. I do think the matchup is good (not auto-win, but good) thanks to Pyroclasm.
Hey man, great to have you here, thanks for coming by!
Are you playing 61 cards indeed? Is Gifts pulling its weight?
The 61st card is an Island (I play one land more than normal i believe)
Burn and Twin are the hardest matchups to me. Affinity is hard but with 4 Pyroclasm MD + a SB with 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 Pithing Needle and 1 Vandalblast it's manageable.
Twin with 2 combust and 2 spellskite is manageable in my opinion. You just gotta read when they are setting up the combo and play as a control. Burn, it is a race really, the dice roll matters ...
Hope to see WOTC publishing your list on the Daily Events page so we can have more people playing the deck (although the surprise factor is huge).
Me too, seems that my daily is never the one published The list is the same only difference is 2 grudge in side instead than Hurkyl (i prefer final solutions than tempo solution that do not draw me a card).
I don't like Blood Moon versus Melira either. They play a lot of mana dorks so it's easy to punish ourselves instead of them. I just played a quick 2 man queue online and bashed Melira thanks to a Pyroclasm game one (taking 2 Birds, 2 DRS, 1 Voice) and a turn 5 Emrakul on game 2. I do think the matchup is good (not auto-win, but good) thanks to Pyroclasm.
What do you side vs. Melira ? I side in the 3rd pyroclasm (4th including the firespout), 2 pithing needle, 2 grudge and side out 2x Map, 1x thirst, 1x Signet, 1x gift
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Ancient Grudge (just one as I prefer Needle here, but also like to have something in case they resolve a Pod)
Remand is good on the play to delay that early Pod, but I generally dislike the card in that matchup because they play a lot of cheap creatures and can play their guys through Pod.
PErsonally think that Remand is the best tempo card available in this deck, you do not need to be on the play to get value out of it, very often it is like a turn 2 time walk in Vintage (one turn your oppo doesn't do anything and you draw an extra card).
You play wihtout gifts so 4 pyroclasm make sense. With gifts (which in my opinion are required) you want one firespout so that you can gift for repeal, firespout, pyroclasm + a random game changing bomb or a draw3.
I was thinking to add one torpor orb to the side just for Melira, or alternatively a Grafdiger;s Cage.
Yeah, I've went back and forth on playing Gifts a lot of times. It's good, but also sometimes just too slow/irrelevant.
Remand versus Pod is a dead card if they go land + mana dork -> land + Pod and you're on the draw, that's why I side it out.
I like having one slot dedicated to Pod as it's so prevalent. I chose Cage because it also does a lot of work against Griselbanned, Gifts/Unburial and Storm, but Orb is fine as it's a good answer to Twin too.
Bax, during these daily events how often did you use Blood Moon? Was it good for the online meta?
EDIT: just watched the replays of tonight's DE and, wow, you got really unlucky man. That game two versus Twin was crazy. The fact that they can use Exarch to tap a breached Emrakul makes me want to play Torpor Orb, but they're all playing Cryptic now, so they can just bounce it. Did you sided in Blood Moon versus Scapeshift?
Based on recent games, I've decided to cut Gifts entirely - it sort of worked as a two-of, but not well, but it just doesn't pull its weight of a one of (not having the second gifts to put in my gifts pile leaves me a bit flummoxed for a 4th pick). Not certain what I want to put in their place - I'm going back up to three Thirst for Knowledge for now.
Still on the fence on Electrolyze. I've been playing it as a two-of, and it has done some work, but it almost never feels like a good draw so I am less sure of it than I was. I think the card is most relevant early in the game....when I usually only have a single coloured source.
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Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I had the same impression about Electrolyze. It's awesome in a couple matchups, but also a bit heavy on color requirements and you really want to use it ASAP - but our mana during the first 3 or 4 turns tends to be bad. In the end I used the slots for Repeal and Pyroclasm and never looked back.
I talked with Bax yesterday, he went 3-1 on a DE. He was playing 61 cards before but decided to cut one Compulsive Research, so he's playing 4 TfK, 2 CR, 2 Gifts. I'm playing 4 TfK and 3 CR. I'll probably play at least on DE this weekend (can't play DEs during weekdays, it takes too much time as I am married and have a full time job haha :))
I had the same impression about Electrolyze. It's awesome in a couple matchups, but also a bit heavy on color requirements and you really want to use it ASAP - but our mana during the first 3 or 4 turns tends to be bad. In the end I used the slots for Repeal and Pyroclasm and never looked back.
I talked with Bax yesterday, he went 3-1 on a DE. He was playing 61 cards before but decided to cut one Compulsive Research, so he's playing 4 TfK, 2 CR, 2 Gifts. I'm playing 4 TfK and 3 CR. I'll probably play at least on DE this weekend (can't play DEs during weekdays, it takes too much time as I am married and have a full time job haha :))
Hi Lucas was good to talk to you yesterday, i went 3-1 again today on DE with the same deck as yesterday, but today had real easy match ups.
Having gifts in my view is awesome, i have gifted today for utilities or to bluff, have tower and power plant on the board and a mine in hand. I've gifted for mine, expedition map , remand and a random card (i wanted the remand in hand) and the guy fell for it discardin map and mine, next turn i went in torn with remand active and turned the game.
The gifts that sometimes seems wrong are the ones well done.
The difference between thirst, compulsive and even fact or fiction and gits is that the first three have statistic on their side (draw more), a well done Gifts at the right moment will win you a games.
Lucas you should do like me in summer time, ship wife to her family telling her she needs a vacation so you can play as much magic as you want But i do realize that in Brazil is not summer right now!
The difference between thirst, compulsive and even fact or fiction and gits is that the first three have statistic on their side (draw more), a well done Gifts at the right moment will win you a games.
I like Gifts too. Just went the CR route because of the raw card draw power. I wanted to be able to cast it one turn earlier and see more cards. Gifts being at 4 mana isn't that good versus fast decks like Affinity and Burn.
I think that as long as I'm playing no Gifts I should just play 3 Emrakul and 1 Ulamog, just like I'm playing 4 Pyroclasm. I'll keep trying both versions.
Lucas you should do like me in summer time, ship wife to her family telling her she needs a vacation so you can play as much magic as you want But i do realize that in Brazil is not summer right now!
I'm trying to slightly more controlling version of this deck - I don't have my exact list handy but I'm trying more Repeals and some Condescend (I think I cut Thirst and Electrolyze to find the space). Compared to MonoU, I was feeling fairly helpless in the first 2-3 turns and it felt like it was costing me games. I really enjoy the tempo-control of MonoU, and I want to try and combine it with the explosive Breaches red allows.
Haven't done much testing yet, only a couple of games, but I was looking for opinions on this. I'll post my list later tonight or tomorrow.
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Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
It's really hard to find all the slots you need to do that. You must play the Maps, Signets, TfK, a couple Repeals, additional draw (be it CR or Gifts), the Eldrazi, Remands and the full set of Through the Breach, the card that gives the deck the free wins it needs to compete.
Yeah, I'm not sure that it is working very well. I played a few games this evening but got blown out every time with the exception of UB Mill (its cute trying to watch them play through the Eldrazi - repealing the leyline when they archive trap is devastating).
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Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I put together Bax's list from the last page and have been testing this deck. It's awesome. While I don't have the turn 3 Karn Liberated that I'm used to in GR Tron, I love having Through the Breach as an alternative way of getting Eldrazi into play. Being able to cast Through the Breach and then Gifts Ungiven in response to get an Eldrazi for guaranteed annihilator is so silly, but awesome.
Here's the list. I ended up cutting one Repeal for the last Pyroclasm. It's more of a meta choice, but even with Repeal's cantrip, I don't care much for it whereas I love Pyroclasm.
I'm not sure of the sideboard, honestly. I don't really know my LGS's metagame, so I decided to make a sideboard with a little bit of answers for various decks:
Seems good. You may want to drop the Breeding Pool from your manabase given you're not playing Ancient Grudge on the SB (it's there to pay for the flashback).
Decks I play and stuff.
Legacy Burn
Modern Mono U Tron
By contrast, with my mana base (Shivan Reef instead of fetches), I'd be a lot less hesitant since in most games I never see one of my basic islands and the rest of my coloured sources produce both colours. If the card was good enough, I'd definitely test it.
Was there a particular card that prompted your question, Sidneyious?
Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Wins (all matches):
1 vs Mono U Tron. My wincons are bigger, and sometimes come down faster.
1 vs UBW Control. Got pretty dominated G1, but postboard Blood Moon does work.
2 vs UB Mill Control. Turns out Eldrazi are a strong favourite against mill. Who'd have thunk? They will side Leyline of the Void and possibly Nihil Spellbomb against you, the former is scary but it is hard for them to play through with the spellbomb if they don't find the leyline.
Thats all I had time for before the servers went down for maintenance~
Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Yeah, we can operate with blood moon online - it largely rules out hard casting Emrakul, unless your opponent is playing a very slow control heavy deck, but we can still breach with relative easy, and signets solve the color issue well enough if you don't have any of your islands.
If I have felt the need to side it in, I never balk at playing it. It definitely slows us down, but I only really bring it in if it stands to utterly hose my opponent.
Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Thanks guys for noticing this. I am the guy that won this GPT and i had a lot of fun with this deck, I am a Vintage player and this was like my second tournament with this deck (in the previous tournament i finished 9th on a SCG qualifier in Milan couple of weeks before).
I really love this deck, to the point i am also playing it in MTGO (currently i have only done 3 tournaments online and currently sitting at 4-0, 3-1, 3-1).
Blood Moon is strong against the match-up listed above, it is not strong at all against Melira (which is my biggest dilemma and i disagree it is an easy match up). Effectively Blood Moon do not disrupt my line of play much i need 5 mana to win, and wiht loads of tempo cards like remand, repeal and 7 draw3 i can easily get to 5 mana unless i get very unlucky.
The match-up i really suffer is affinity, is way too fast to contain and requires to see solutions early (possybly hurkyl/grudge and later vandalblast). Also the UR Storm can be tricky to deal with.
Are you playing 61 cards indeed? Is Gifts pulling its weight?
Burn and Twin are the hardest matchups to me. Affinity is hard but with 4 Pyroclasm MD + a SB with 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 Pithing Needle and 1 Vandalblast it's manageable.
Hope to see WOTC publishing your list on the Daily Events page so we can have more people playing the deck (although the surprise factor is huge).
I don't like Blood Moon versus Melira either. They play a lot of mana dorks so it's easy to punish ourselves instead of them. I just played a quick 2 man queue online and bashed Melira thanks to a Pyroclasm game one (taking 2 Birds, 2 DRS, 1 Voice) and a turn 5 Emrakul on game 2. I do think the matchup is good (not auto-win, but good) thanks to Pyroclasm.
EDIT: Also, what's your MTGO nickname?
The 61st card is an Island (I play one land more than normal i believe)
Twin with 2 combust and 2 spellskite is manageable in my opinion. You just gotta read when they are setting up the combo and play as a control. Burn, it is a race really, the dice roll matters ...
Me too, seems that my daily is never the one published The list is the same only difference is 2 grudge in side instead than Hurkyl (i prefer final solutions than tempo solution that do not draw me a card).
What do you side vs. Melira ? I side in the 3rd pyroclasm (4th including the firespout), 2 pithing needle, 2 grudge and side out 2x Map, 1x thirst, 1x Signet, 1x gift
Bax obv!
Against Melira I tend to side out all the Remands, especially if I'm on the draw. In this particular game I did this (I won G1 and was on the draw):
-4 Remand
-1 Wurmcoil Engine (not sure on this)
-1 Expedition Map
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Ancient Grudge (just one as I prefer Needle here, but also like to have something in case they resolve a Pod)
Remand is good on the play to delay that early Pod, but I generally dislike the card in that matchup because they play a lot of cheap creatures and can play their guys through Pod.
For reference here's my list:
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Shivan Reef
3 Island
1 Breeding Pool
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Expedition Map
4 Remand
2 Repeal
3 Compulsive Research
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Pyroclasm
4 Through the Breach
2 Spellskite
1 Vandalblast
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
3 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dispel
1 Grafdigger's Cage
You play wihtout gifts so 4 pyroclasm make sense. With gifts (which in my opinion are required) you want one firespout so that you can gift for repeal, firespout, pyroclasm + a random game changing bomb or a draw3.
I was thinking to add one torpor orb to the side just for Melira, or alternatively a Grafdiger;s Cage.
Remand versus Pod is a dead card if they go land + mana dork -> land + Pod and you're on the draw, that's why I side it out.
I like having one slot dedicated to Pod as it's so prevalent. I chose Cage because it also does a lot of work against Griselbanned, Gifts/Unburial and Storm, but Orb is fine as it's a good answer to Twin too.
EDIT: just watched the replays of tonight's DE and, wow, you got really unlucky man. That game two versus Twin was crazy. The fact that they can use Exarch to tap a breached Emrakul makes me want to play Torpor Orb, but they're all playing Cryptic now, so they can just bounce it. Did you sided in Blood Moon versus Scapeshift?
I am thinking to remove the Blood Moon, although in my opinion are very good vs UW and BUG and Twin.
Still on the fence on Electrolyze. I've been playing it as a two-of, and it has done some work, but it almost never feels like a good draw so I am less sure of it than I was. I think the card is most relevant early in the game....when I usually only have a single coloured source.
Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I talked with Bax yesterday, he went 3-1 on a DE. He was playing 61 cards before but decided to cut one Compulsive Research, so he's playing 4 TfK, 2 CR, 2 Gifts. I'm playing 4 TfK and 3 CR. I'll probably play at least on DE this weekend (can't play DEs during weekdays, it takes too much time as I am married and have a full time job haha :))
Hi Lucas was good to talk to you yesterday, i went 3-1 again today on DE with the same deck as yesterday, but today had real easy match ups.
Having gifts in my view is awesome, i have gifted today for utilities or to bluff, have tower and power plant on the board and a mine in hand. I've gifted for mine, expedition map , remand and a random card (i wanted the remand in hand) and the guy fell for it discardin map and mine, next turn i went in torn with remand active and turned the game.
The gifts that sometimes seems wrong are the ones well done.
The difference between thirst, compulsive and even fact or fiction and gits is that the first three have statistic on their side (draw more), a well done Gifts at the right moment will win you a games.
Lucas you should do like me in summer time, ship wife to her family telling her she needs a vacation so you can play as much magic as you want But i do realize that in Brazil is not summer right now!
Watched your replays today also, congrats again!
I like Gifts too. Just went the CR route because of the raw card draw power. I wanted to be able to cast it one turn earlier and see more cards. Gifts being at 4 mana isn't that good versus fast decks like Affinity and Burn.
I think that as long as I'm playing no Gifts I should just play 3 Emrakul and 1 Ulamog, just like I'm playing 4 Pyroclasm. I'll keep trying both versions.
Hahaha, that's an idea.
Haven't done much testing yet, only a couple of games, but I was looking for opinions on this. I'll post my list later tonight or tomorrow.
Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
It's really hard to find all the slots you need to do that. You must play the Maps, Signets, TfK, a couple Repeals, additional draw (be it CR or Gifts), the Eldrazi, Remands and the full set of Through the Breach, the card that gives the deck the free wins it needs to compete.
Standard: Turbofog Maze's End
Modern: Goblins, IzzeTron, Tempo Twin
Legacy: Burn
Commander: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Here's the list. I ended up cutting one Repeal for the last Pyroclasm. It's more of a meta choice, but even with Repeal's cantrip, I don't care much for it whereas I love Pyroclasm.
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Through the Breach
4 Remand
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Compulsive Research
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Repeal
3 Pyroclasm
4 Expedition Map
4 Izzet Signet
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Shivan Reef
1 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
I'm not sure of the sideboard, honestly. I don't really know my LGS's metagame, so I decided to make a sideboard with a little bit of answers for various decks:
1 Firespout
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Torpor Orb
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
3 Blood Moon
2 Vandalblast
Any input would be most appreciated, thanks!
Modern: :symu::symb::symr: Reanimator + :symr::symg: Tron + :symu::symr: Twin
JDahl (4-0)
Modern Daily #5765262 on 08/06/2013
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Shivan Reef
2 Steam Vents
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Expedition Map
1 Firespout
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Izzet Signet
2 Pyroclasm
4 Remand
2 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Through the Breach
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Combust
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroclasm
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
1 Vandalblast