Thermo is ok, but it dies to any removal where as Eidolon will get in 2 even if they kill it immediately.
Eidolon of the Great Revel is quite good I must admit, I'd definitely choose that in the long run, though for the ultra budget option for people, Thermo-Alchemist is a lot friendly than the other.
He is certainly cheaper but I would only use him on an spell heavy build. He isn't as good in a deck with a bunch of swiftspears, spark elementals, vexing devils, keldon marauders, ect. And those are all classic budget burn cards
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I can see thermo being a budget option in a build playing 4 swiftspear and 4 GLM. if you are running spark elemental instead of GLM, i dont see thermo being worth it.
In budget decks, the whole 'dies to X' debate is less relevant since anything except the non-budget versions is going to be part of that debate.
Thermo looks to have the most upside. If allowed to untap, it should deal 3 damage (cast 2 spells). Also, if removal is used on it, it gives you a greater chance to have a GLM untap.
Looking at potential upside may be the best thought process for budget cards.
Hi Bkotz! As always, i suggest you to start from a primer or a tested budget list (like this one https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-67-13-tix-modern-mono-red-burn). Then, if you want to play burn, you should think of it like a 7 cards combo. Every single one of your spells must be able to deal at least 3 damage to your opponent in order to achieve 21 damage in three-four turn. Obviously, this is a very simplicistic way of explaining burn and accounts for no interaction with your opponent and a perfect draw, but is nonetheless a good starting point.
Ran this list to a 5-0 in Competitive League this evening. Not sure it counts as budget with Guides and Eidolon...but thought some points might be helpful.
Volcanic Fallout has a ton of great uses, and Ramunap Ruins can slip in there to end a game. I've had several wins with that land.
Searing Blood is probably one of my favorite cards, although potentially could get replaced by the Landfall version when I upgrade to fetchlands.
Guerrilla Tactics are nuts against Jund if you get in the position to discard it (K Command usually) although is apparently bugged on MTGO against Liliana's +1 ability and will not trigger.
I actually haven't had any success with Grim Lavamancer, he dies as soon as he hits the field or ties up so much mana that I never really use his ability.
Leyline of Punishment seems like it could be good in the board if I ended up cutting Lavamancer and moving Hellspark and something else main.
Hi, i imagine you all saw the new Ghitu Lavarunner. IMO that card is probably the best candidate as a budget GG: it is nowhere near as good on t1, but it's easily on par from turn 2. Thus it felt like it had to be introduced in this discussion.
I built a budget burn deck for a friend of mine and he's been able to steal some 3-1 wins at our highly competitive LGS. This is what it looks like since he doesn't exactly have very much funds.
My philosophy has always been if you're building on a budget you still have to stay true to the deck at hand. This mono red version of burn remains true to burn. The core spells are almost absolutely identical and in there you have much the same power level as a burn deck. You lose lightning helix, unfortunately, and on top of that boros charm. Flames of the blood hand is a more expensive boros charm but it doubles as another skullcrack/charm. In a life gain meta you have 6 "Prevent lifegain" effects. 7 post side board. Bomat Courier is great because while he doesn't do as much as goblin guide he can potentially refuel your hand. This makes up for the lack of damage you're getting by replacing him.
Harsh Mentor makes a great budget replacement for Eidolon of the great revel as in modern he has a lot of targets that he hits. In the matchups where he's not good he makes an excellent choice to pull out and side board something different. Typically traditional burn has no room for him but he can be explosive in the right matches and okay for a few others. In this case since Eidolon is out he makes for a great second choice.
Mono Red burn on a budget may be missing some of it's better options but it has the advantage in a few instances. No shocks or fetches means no damage to yourself. Harsh Mentor is explosive in certain games. You have more anti-life gain hate and it's easy to build upgrades into it.
I'd start with replacing the Bomat's with Goblin Guide, Harsh Mentor with Eidolon of the Great Revel, Hellspark Elemental with good ol' grim lavamancer. As for Ghitu Lavarunner? You could replace Hellspark Elemental with him if you'd like. I wouldn't have more than two that way you increase your odds of drawing him further in the game when he'll come out as a budget goblin guide. Running four you run the risk of drawing multiples in your opening hand which isn't as good. You want to come out swinging. I personally like Hellspark Elemental because he's great in any matchup involving heavy removal or counter spells. They either counter/remove him twice and 2-1 themselves or they let him resolve. Not to mention he's great to run into tokens and weenies as the trample oftentimes let's him sneak some damage in. This deck is actually great for sneaking in damage in the long game for that you have:
Volcanic Fallout, Ramunap Ruins, Hellspark Elemental, and Harsh Mentor if he sticks around.
Is browbeat or punisher burn an option in these kinds of decks?
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You also need somthing in the SB for decks that will bring Leyline of Sanctity against you.
Since you don't have a splash color to remove it you'll probably want more creatures to deal the extra damage, something like Goblin Rabblemaster.
# I'd also consider Pillar for the SB to deal with annoying recursive creatures like Finks and Phoenix.
# Molten Rain can also be useful dealing with decks like Tron.
Here is my list for a budget friendly red burn deck with a price tag of just over $50. Prices are based on SCG and most likely can get it cheaper if sourced elsewhere.
1. SS Mage and Swiftspear work well with Volcanic Fallout as they do not die and it triggers prowess. Especially the Mage as he buffs and at the same time gives -1/-1 counters to your opponents creatures.
2. Seal of Fire is a better budget alternative to Shock as you have the option to leave it in play for combat tricks and also avoid it being discarded by discard spells or effects by just putting it in play waiting to be used.
3. Incendiary Flow took the place of Incinerate as the "exile" effect is more efficient than the "cannot regenerate" effect even if at sorcery speed.
5. The sideboard cards are meta game calls for the most part. Feel free to change them depending on your meta.
Remember this is a budget deck so don't expect too much! At a price tag of $50++ I believe this packs a punch if the tricks in the deck are used properly. Enjoy gaming!
I think that this deck could use some more efficient burn spells than the ones selected here.
Volcanic Fallout should not be in the maindeck as it is a very narrow SB card and not efficient and burning the opponent out as this is what the deck should be trying to do in G1 rather than playing control.
Same goes for Incendiary Flow which is sorcery speed and not mana-efficient (3-damage for 2-mana) and I don't think that pre-boarding against recursive creatures is worth it (and even than there is the cheaper Pillar). Seal of Fire is not terrible but it can also be replaced by better burn spells that deal more damage.
The non-basic lands aren't worth it imho as taplands will just slow you down and sac'ing Ruins is highly unlikely in a (fast) 20-lands list so it is more likely to just require paying life for no benefit.
Eidolon of the Great Revel is quite good I must admit, I'd definitely choose that in the long run, though for the ultra budget option for people, Thermo-Alchemist is a lot friendly than the other.
In budget decks, the whole 'dies to X' debate is less relevant since anything except the non-budget versions is going to be part of that debate.
Thermo looks to have the most upside. If allowed to untap, it should deal 3 damage (cast 2 spells). Also, if removal is used on it, it gives you a greater chance to have a GLM untap.
Looking at potential upside may be the best thought process for budget cards.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
4 Dragon Fodder
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Guttersnipe
4 Hordeling Outburst
3 Impact Tremors
4 Incinerate
3 Keldon Marauders
4 Lightning Bolt
20 Mountain
4 Seal of Fire
3 Vexing Devil
2 Curse of Bloodletting
2 Curse of the Pierced Heart
2 Leyline of Lightning
2 Leyline of Punishment
4 Staff of the Flame Magus
3 Tunneling Geopede
What do you think? What should i swap? Enough creatures? Tried to keep the CMC as low as possible save for a few cards in my side board.
Merged with the Budget Burn thread. - Torpf
Volcanic Fallout has a ton of great uses, and Ramunap Ruins can slip in there to end a game. I've had several wins with that land.
Searing Blood is probably one of my favorite cards, although potentially could get replaced by the Landfall version when I upgrade to fetchlands.
Guerrilla Tactics are nuts against Jund if you get in the position to discard it (K Command usually) although is apparently bugged on MTGO against Liliana's +1 ability and will not trigger.
I actually haven't had any success with Grim Lavamancer, he dies as soon as he hits the field or ties up so much mana that I never really use his ability.
Leyline of Punishment seems like it could be good in the board if I ended up cutting Lavamancer and moving Hellspark and something else main.
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Bolt
17 Mountain
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Searing Blood
4 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Hellspark Elemental
3 Shard Volley
3 Ramunap Ruins
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Smash to Smithereens
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Hellspark Elemental
4 Guerrilla Tactics
2 Exquisite Firecraft
-MTG Salvation.
18 Mountain
2 Ramunap Ruins
Creatures
4 Bomat Courier
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Harsh Mentor
2 Hellspark Elemental
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
4 Searing Blood
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Rending Volley
1 Flames of the Blood Hand
2 Molten Rain
2 Volcanic Fallout
My philosophy has always been if you're building on a budget you still have to stay true to the deck at hand. This mono red version of burn remains true to burn. The core spells are almost absolutely identical and in there you have much the same power level as a burn deck. You lose lightning helix, unfortunately, and on top of that boros charm. Flames of the blood hand is a more expensive boros charm but it doubles as another skullcrack/charm. In a life gain meta you have 6 "Prevent lifegain" effects. 7 post side board. Bomat Courier is great because while he doesn't do as much as goblin guide he can potentially refuel your hand. This makes up for the lack of damage you're getting by replacing him.
Harsh Mentor makes a great budget replacement for Eidolon of the great revel as in modern he has a lot of targets that he hits. In the matchups where he's not good he makes an excellent choice to pull out and side board something different. Typically traditional burn has no room for him but he can be explosive in the right matches and okay for a few others. In this case since Eidolon is out he makes for a great second choice.
Mono Red burn on a budget may be missing some of it's better options but it has the advantage in a few instances. No shocks or fetches means no damage to yourself. Harsh Mentor is explosive in certain games. You have more anti-life gain hate and it's easy to build upgrades into it.
I'd start with replacing the Bomat's with Goblin Guide, Harsh Mentor with Eidolon of the Great Revel, Hellspark Elemental with good ol' grim lavamancer. As for Ghitu Lavarunner? You could replace Hellspark Elemental with him if you'd like. I wouldn't have more than two that way you increase your odds of drawing him further in the game when he'll come out as a budget goblin guide. Running four you run the risk of drawing multiples in your opening hand which isn't as good. You want to come out swinging. I personally like Hellspark Elemental because he's great in any matchup involving heavy removal or counter spells. They either counter/remove him twice and 2-1 themselves or they let him resolve. Not to mention he's great to run into tokens and weenies as the trample oftentimes let's him sneak some damage in. This deck is actually great for sneaking in damage in the long game for that you have:
Volcanic Fallout, Ramunap Ruins, Hellspark Elemental, and Harsh Mentor if he sticks around.
-Stay Frosty
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Vexing Devil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Searing Blood
2 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
3 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Light Up The Stage
3 Skewer the Critics
2 Searing Blood
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Dragon's Claw
What do you think of it? I don't feel comfortable with Shrine of Burning Rage.
Shard Volley is a reasonable 1x-of.
If I were to add creatures I'd consider Rampaging Ferocidon.
Grim Lavamancer is also a reasonable option as a 2x-of.
Alternatively you could add Wizard's Lightning and some wizards to support it like: Ghitu Lavarunner and Viashino Pyromancer (and also Grim Lavamancer).
These can take the slots of: Shrine, Devil and some of the weaker burn spells like the "Searing" ones.
You also need somthing in the SB for decks that will bring Leyline of Sanctity against you.
Since you don't have a splash color to remove it you'll probably want more creatures to deal the extra damage, something like Goblin Rabblemaster.
# I'd also consider Pillar for the SB to deal with annoying recursive creatures like Finks and Phoenix.
# Molten Rain can also be useful dealing with decks like Tron.
2 Teetering Peaks
2 Ramunap Ruins
16 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Seal of Fire
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Searing Blood
4 Volcanic Fallout
3 Molten Rain
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Leyline of Punishment
Some card choice explanations below:
1. SS Mage and Swiftspear work well with Volcanic Fallout as they do not die and it triggers prowess. Especially the Mage as he buffs and at the same time gives -1/-1 counters to your opponents creatures.
2. Seal of Fire is a better budget alternative to Shock as you have the option to leave it in play for combat tricks and also avoid it being discarded by discard spells or effects by just putting it in play waiting to be used.
3. Incendiary Flow took the place of Incinerate as the "exile" effect is more efficient than the "cannot regenerate" effect even if at sorcery speed.
4. Searing Blood dodges Leyline of Sanctity. Enough said.
5. The sideboard cards are meta game calls for the most part. Feel free to change them depending on your meta.
Remember this is a budget deck so don't expect too much! At a price tag of $50++ I believe this packs a punch if the tricks in the deck are used properly. Enjoy gaming!
Volcanic Fallout should not be in the maindeck as it is a very narrow SB card and not efficient and burning the opponent out as this is what the deck should be trying to do in G1 rather than playing control.
Same goes for Incendiary Flow which is sorcery speed and not mana-efficient (3-damage for 2-mana) and I don't think that pre-boarding against recursive creatures is worth it (and even than there is the cheaper Pillar).
Seal of Fire is not terrible but it can also be replaced by better burn spells that deal more damage.
Personally I'd get rid of these three in favor of: Lava Spike, Skewer the Critics and Wizard's Lightning.
To suppport Wizard's Lightning, Ghitu Lavarunner and Viashino Pyromancer can replace Keldon Marauders and Hellspark Elemental.
I'd also want Skullcrack in the deck be it over Leyline or split 2/2 with Searing Blood.
The non-basic lands aren't worth it imho as taplands will just slow you down and sac'ing Ruins is highly unlikely in a (fast) 20-lands list so it is more likely to just require paying life for no benefit.
Hereis how I'd tweak this list:
4x Soul-Scar Mage
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Ghitu Lavarunner
4x Viashino Pyromancer
Spells (24):
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Skewer the Critics
2x Searing Blood
2x Skullcrack
4x Wizard's Lightning
20x Mountain
3x Molten Rain
3x Dragon's Claw
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Smash to Smithereens
2x Searing Blood
1x Volcanic Fallout
It might even be worth it to go down to 18x lands and add 2x Light Up the Stage.
Here are some more good budget burn lists:
# https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1642722
# https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1287625