Wow, somebody finally mentioned Blistercoil Weird. I've been wondering about this card for ages.
At worst, I see it as a Monastery Swiftrear sans haste. Is Weird just so terrible that nobody dares test it?
It's not just the haste, the 1 toughness is actually a huge difference. You need 3 spells to survive a bolt, Taylor needs 2.
Taylor can (sometimes) bounce a Goyf. Blistercoil can't - he either kills it (yeah, right) or dies to it.
Hi! New to modern, but play mono-Red heavy burn in Standard. Post rotation, I thought I could get in to Modern to keep using some of my older cards, but I'm going to be budget limited. I apologise for hijacking this thread, but thought it would be a good spot to ask for opinions on what to aim for trading for/buying, etc. and also what could be good temporary substitutes (e.g. what to use in place of Goblin Guide, as right now I can't drop $100 on a playset!). Also, I notice that a lot of the deck lists don't use Simian Spirit Guide, which I have heard talked about in other places. Why is this not a regular card? I would have thought that it allows a quicker burn...?
Looking through the lists on these pages, I think I'm in not too bad a shape to start with. I already own the following cards (which seem to be staples in a Modern Burn deck):
I also own several other burn spells (2 Magma Jet, 4 Shock, 4 Lightning Strike, 3 Satyr Firedancer, several Smash To Smithereens, Exquisite Firecraft (?)), but I'd like advice on a) what's good to include main board (and as I said, potential targets to work on getting) and b) what kind of thing to put in the sideboard, and what decks the sideboard is likely to be strong/weak against. I'm not familiar with the Modern deck archetypes, so please be clear with reasoning!
I'd work on the 4th Eidolon, 2 Grim Lavamancer (although not as good without fetches), some Volcanic Fallout (usually 2) for sure.
You'll be weakest against anyone running white, basically - because they run Leyline of Sanctity which you just can't handle without splashing another color, which you can't do (well) without fetches and shocks. Magma Jet, Shock, Lightning Strike, and Satyr Firedancer are just not good enough to be in burn. Pillar of Flame is better than Shock and also pretty cheap if you find you need some more filler. It also deals with Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks pretty well as a side benefit.
Thanks for the comments. I'm then thinking something like the following is a good place to start? Not sure what to include in the side, other than the Smash to Smithereen, and in what quantities...
I'm not huge on the Simian Spirit Guides. I know you're planning on using them to accelerate, but they're a horrible topdeck later in the game.
4 Shard Volley and 19 lands seems bad. I'd run at least 3 if not 4 Skullcrack mainboard - there's enough lifegain that they're required.
It really feels like budget burn is getting harder to do now since the classic staples like goblin guide are 20 usd and many of the newer tools are 10 usd a piece. I'm hoping we will get a bit of a break from all of this once Shadows over Innistrad gets released.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The budget Burn I constructed when i got into modern is mono Red but I really like the relatively cheap R/W mana base the OP proposes. Im going to have to try it out when I upgrade from mono Red to Boros eventually. I will say though that Blood Moon is money well spent, the card is insanely effective in so many matchups. I was lucky enough to already own 2 when i assembled my deck, but even with its high cost it might just be one of the best red cards ever made. I cant recommend the card enough, and run 2 in my mainboard just because multi-color decks are so prevalent.
Simian Spirit guide is terrible for burn. The deck is already crazy fast, it doesn't need help there. It is just one less spell you have in your hand that actually does damage. You just want to draw 7 cards that each do 3 damage and the guide does not fit that plan.
(ALERT: I'm not a super experienced burn player. I played vintage burn way back in the early 2000s but things have changed a lot since then...)
what kind of budget are you working with? That will make it easier to talk about possible upgrades.
I think that if you have the budget, it's always better to play R/x/y burn than it is to play mono-red. Boros colors do give you a lot of great stuff (Lightning Helix and Boros Charm among other things).
Adding green is also a consideration. The addition of green alone is pretty low-impact compared to white (you're really only getting Atarka's Command unless you expand to Naya colors.).
Looking at your list, three things come to mind:
1. 4 Searing Blood seems like a lot. There will be instances where it's just a dead card, or where getting value from it requires you to 2-for-1 yourself. Don't get me wrong, the card is great. But 4 seems like overkill.
2. Needle Drop is a curious choice. I love drawing cards as much as the next person, but 1 mana for 1 damage just doesn't seem like the best deal in a deck where you want to deal as much damage as possible with the least amount of mana. If you're looking for a way to recharge/get some incremental value, then maybe Young Pyromancer is worth considering?
3. No Goblin Guide. I know this is a budget list, but depending on what kind of budget you're setting for yourself and how long you intend to evolve your deck, Goblin Guide should probably be one of the first on your buy list.
Hope this helps!
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
I'm not sure Deflecting Palm is a card you want to be playing. It relies too much on what your opponent is doing, and burn decks value consistency over tempo cards like Deflecting Palm. There's just going to be too many times when Deflecting Palm would do less damage than Lightning Strike to make it a good, consistent inclusion.
Boros Charm and Lightening Helix are the main reasons for going into white at all. That and a few sideboard cards that are good against the burn mirror.
I'm not sure Deflecting Palm is not a card you want to be playing. It relies too much on what your opponent is doing, and burn decks value consistency over tempo cards like Deflecting Palm. There's just going to be too many times when Deflecting Palm would do less damage than Lightning Strike to make it a good, consistent inclusion.
Aye, there will be cases where Deflecting Palm is better. I am not arguing that it is never better. To be clear, I am arguing three things: 1) Deflecting Palm is a reactive card that requires specific action from your opponent (this is undeniably true), 2) burn decks don't want reactive cards (this is certainly debatable) and 3) Deflecting Palm can't do enough damage consistently to warrant an inclusion in the main deck (also debatable).
That being said, I concede that there are cases where Deflecting Palm has value, making it a worthwhile inclusion in the sideboard. I'm obviously not a seasoned burn player, so take all this with a grain of salt.
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Cut the Flames of the Blood Hand, cut Keldon Marauders. Add 2 Grim Lavamancer, 2 Lightning Helix. The 4 slots you free up by cutting Keldon Marauders can be replaced with several options which will be preference-based most likely. There just are not replacements for GG or Eidolon.
Shard volley is another "bolt" if you want more spells.
Weird/Cackler are probably the only 2 creatures to consider using. Cackler will be 2 power, and Weird is an inferior swiftspear (still gets pumps, but no haste).
Searing Blood is probably only the better choice if you see A LOT of creature decks.
I would also highly suggest replacing the 3 plains and 1 evolving wilds with 4 Battlefield Forge. Work on obtaining Sacred Foundry to replace the Evolving Wilds. Once the fetches rotate from Standard you may be able to obtain the red ones cheaper. Every land in a burn deck really has to produce red mana. Every spell has red in its mana cost, and you want to cast multiple spells a turn.
For your sideboard, I would take out the Volcanic Fallout; it isnt well positioned for burn's sideboard right now. I would also cut the Burning Earth; 4 mana is a VERY high investment for a card in Modern, especially burn. I would add 1 deflecting palm, 1 molten rain, 1 Dragon's Claw, 1 wear/tear and 2 Path to Exile. If PTE isnt in your budget, additional copies of your other SB cards can work. the wear/tear and PTE are for Twin mainly, so rending volley can work here also.
It may sound strange, but I've been trying out Lightning Berserker and Figure of Destiny as a couple of one drops and it can be nice! Neither is a Guide replacement, but both can catch your opponent off guard, especially Berserker if they tapped out. At worst, they get spot removed, which can happen to Guide too.
It may sound strange, but I've been trying out Lightning Berserker and Figure of Destiny as a couple of one drops and it can be nice! Neither is a Guide replacement, but both can catch your opponent off guard, especially Berserker if they tapped out. At worst, they get spot removed, which can happen to Guide too.
I know this is burn, but I love your idea of the figure of destiny for long running games as a mana sink.
In a similar regard, Stonewright is also a fantastic mana sink, or even a good way to drop mana without having to cast a burn spell if your board is clear.
Or Dragons Mantle. Replaces itself too. Gotta love cantrips.
Thanks! And good ideas! I run Burn, but when it's budget you sometimes run longer than intended, so although long game isn't the plan, a fallback has been nice when facing ramp decks.
Here's my budget monored burn deck - I built this to allow any friends to get involved in modern events or for a break from my Elves. May consider adding white for extra functionality but I kinda like the easy mana base (especially for new players). Would love to get recommendations for budget upgrades and other options.
Here is the budget deck I put together trading in standard staples for 1 Grim Lavamancer, 2 Eidolon of the Great Revel, 4 Monastery Swiftspear, 1 Rift Bolt, 4 Lightning Bolts, and 2 Aggressive Mining. I won't put Aggressive Mining into my sideboard just something to keep around. For $86, I was able to purchase the rest of the deck. I realize that Leyline of Sanctity will wreck this version of mono-red burn but I'm just trying to put together a modern burn deck that can be competitive.
If I find that local meta at the store I play at uses Leyline of Sanctity, I can change my sideboard to include Molten Rain, more Searing Bloods, Cryoclasms, and/or Peak Eruptions to do indirect damage. If that doesn't work, then I'll look to get a set of Stomping Grounds, 3 other Windswept Heaths, and a set of Destructive Revelry. I have a feeling this won't be the issue but with the strong showing of Dredge at the SCG Open, I might add another Grafdigger's Cage.
It's not just the haste, the 1 toughness is actually a huge difference. You need 3 spells to survive a bolt, Taylor needs 2.
Taylor can (sometimes) bounce a Goyf. Blistercoil can't - he either kills it (yeah, right) or dies to it.
Looking through the lists on these pages, I think I'm in not too bad a shape to start with. I already own the following cards (which seem to be staples in a Modern Burn deck):
I also own several other burn spells (2 Magma Jet, 4 Shock, 4 Lightning Strike, 3 Satyr Firedancer, several Smash To Smithereens, Exquisite Firecraft (?)), but I'd like advice on a) what's good to include main board (and as I said, potential targets to work on getting) and b) what kind of thing to put in the sideboard, and what decks the sideboard is likely to be strong/weak against. I'm not familiar with the Modern deck archetypes, so please be clear with reasoning!
Thanks for any and all advice.
Hellspark Elemental and Keldon Marauders are okay replacements until you can trade into Guides.
Smash to Smithereens is a great sideboard card. You can run Exquisite Firecraft mainboard, but not more than 2 - the 3 CMC is tough to hit on 20 lands sometimes.
I'd work on the 4th Eidolon, 2 Grim Lavamancer (although not as good without fetches), some Volcanic Fallout (usually 2) for sure.
You'll be weakest against anyone running white, basically - because they run Leyline of Sanctity which you just can't handle without splashing another color, which you can't do (well) without fetches and shocks.
Magma Jet, Shock, Lightning Strike, and Satyr Firedancer are just not good enough to be in burn.
Pillar of Flame is better than Shock and also pretty cheap if you find you need some more filler. It also deals with Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks pretty well as a side benefit.
19 Mountain
Creatures (16)
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Shard Volley
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blood
2 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Volcanic Fallout
4 Shard Volley and 19 lands seems bad. I'd run at least 3 if not 4 Skullcrack mainboard - there's enough lifegain that they're required.
Keldon Marauders is actually a really good creature and probably pretty cheap. I'd recommend those or Flames of the Blood Hand for sure.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
(ALERT: I'm not a super experienced burn player. I played vintage burn way back in the early 2000s but things have changed a lot since then...)
what kind of budget are you working with? That will make it easier to talk about possible upgrades.
I think that if you have the budget, it's always better to play R/x/y burn than it is to play mono-red. Boros colors do give you a lot of great stuff (Lightning Helix and Boros Charm among other things).
Adding green is also a consideration. The addition of green alone is pretty low-impact compared to white (you're really only getting Atarka's Command unless you expand to Naya colors.).
Looking at your list, three things come to mind:
1. 4 Searing Blood seems like a lot. There will be instances where it's just a dead card, or where getting value from it requires you to 2-for-1 yourself. Don't get me wrong, the card is great. But 4 seems like overkill.
2. Needle Drop is a curious choice. I love drawing cards as much as the next person, but 1 mana for 1 damage just doesn't seem like the best deal in a deck where you want to deal as much damage as possible with the least amount of mana. If you're looking for a way to recharge/get some incremental value, then maybe Young Pyromancer is worth considering?
3. No Goblin Guide. I know this is a budget list, but depending on what kind of budget you're setting for yourself and how long you intend to evolve your deck, Goblin Guide should probably be one of the first on your buy list.
Hope this helps!
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I'm not sure Deflecting Palm is a card you want to be playing. It relies too much on what your opponent is doing, and burn decks value consistency over tempo cards like Deflecting Palm. There's just going to be too many times when Deflecting Palm would do less damage than Lightning Strike to make it a good, consistent inclusion.
Boros Charm and Lightening Helix are the main reasons for going into white at all. That and a few sideboard cards that are good against the burn mirror.
If you have the budget for it, you could also consider Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
That's just not true. Deflecting Palm on a Wurmcoil Engine, any Infect creature, Emrakul, Primeval Titan or many other things will do more damage than Lightning Strike.
And it not only does more damage, it saves you from the damage as well, which can be vital.
That being said, I concede that there are cases where Deflecting Palm has value, making it a worthwhile inclusion in the sideboard. I'm obviously not a seasoned burn player, so take all this with a grain of salt.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Cut the Flames of the Blood Hand, cut Keldon Marauders. Add 2 Grim Lavamancer, 2 Lightning Helix. The 4 slots you free up by cutting Keldon Marauders can be replaced with several options which will be preference-based most likely. There just are not replacements for GG or Eidolon.
Shard volley is another "bolt" if you want more spells.
Weird/Cackler are probably the only 2 creatures to consider using. Cackler will be 2 power, and Weird is an inferior swiftspear (still gets pumps, but no haste).
Searing Blood is probably only the better choice if you see A LOT of creature decks.
I would also highly suggest replacing the 3 plains and 1 evolving wilds with 4 Battlefield Forge. Work on obtaining Sacred Foundry to replace the Evolving Wilds. Once the fetches rotate from Standard you may be able to obtain the red ones cheaper. Every land in a burn deck really has to produce red mana. Every spell has red in its mana cost, and you want to cast multiple spells a turn.
For your sideboard, I would take out the Volcanic Fallout; it isnt well positioned for burn's sideboard right now. I would also cut the Burning Earth; 4 mana is a VERY high investment for a card in Modern, especially burn. I would add 1 deflecting palm, 1 molten rain, 1 Dragon's Claw, 1 wear/tear and 2 Path to Exile. If PTE isnt in your budget, additional copies of your other SB cards can work. the wear/tear and PTE are for Twin mainly, so rending volley can work here also.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
I know this is burn, but I love your idea of the figure of destiny for long running games as a mana sink.
In a similar regard, Stonewright is also a fantastic mana sink, or even a good way to drop mana without having to cast a burn spell if your board is clear.
Or Dragons Mantle. Replaces itself too. Gotta love cantrips.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
Burn
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
18 Mountain
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Roast
2 Searing Blood
3 Smash to Smithereens
4 Spark Elemental
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Monastery Swiftspear
Spells
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
18 Mountain
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Leyline of Punishment
2 Searing Blood
2 Smash to Smithereens
If I find that local meta at the store I play at uses Leyline of Sanctity, I can change my sideboard to include Molten Rain, more Searing Bloods, Cryoclasms, and/or Peak Eruptions to do indirect damage. If that doesn't work, then I'll look to get a set of Stomping Grounds, 3 other Windswept Heaths, and a set of Destructive Revelry. I have a feeling this won't be the issue but with the strong showing of Dredge at the SCG Open, I might add another Grafdigger's Cage.
My upgrade path with be 4 Goblin Guides > Fetch and Shock Lands > Atarka's Command and Boros Charm > Deflecting Palm and Destructive Revelry for sideboard options.