Unified will our of the board can also be a good option for a blue splash. Image can copy alot of things for added value like e witness, mimic, even visionary. Im personally on a version with vial and company. I also run rattleclaw s to help with the blue splash and a T3 company.
I was dissatisfied with one drops in the deck and searched for new 1 cmc shamans
The best I could find was Kumena's Speaker
I discarded it because there were no merfolks nor islands in the deck
With Phantasmal Image replacing Burning-Tree Shaman it worth a test
The one drops that I have used are Oath of Nissa primarily as we are in someways a combo deck, so it could hit a missing piece.
I don't think Bloodbraid Elf helps us much. CoCo is better due to its instant speed and getting 2 creatures we really want. Unless we are playing nissa, voice of zendikar, we can't reliably get counters onto the hasty elf.
Not sure about Speaker. I think even some non-shaman cards like Experiment One look more interesting. If followed by turn 2 BTE + Bosk Banneret it becomes a good clock with a defensive tool.
But I think the Shaman builds and overall phylosophy gonna change a bit with Bloodbraid unban because you really want to play BBE on turn 3 with 1- or 2-mana dorks. I even consider a build with four 2-mana dorks, three CoCos and two BBEs.
BBE is not better at 4 mana than CoCo for this deck for sure. I'm not planning on including BBE
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I think Shamans is like a combo deck. You need enough shamans on the field and then Rageforger to help with the finish. We need more looks to find Rageforger. Running 8 spells in addition at a Fauna Shaman/Flamekin Harbinger means we can reliably find Rage forgers or whatever else we need.
Here is my thoughts on a build. I would be glad to take some hints.
So what are your thoughts fellow shaman players? specifically @D90Dennis14 or @pizzap
I am not sold on Leafcrown Elder or Ulvenwald Tracker. They could be more metallic mimics or just something else like the Wolf-Skull Shamans, more Burning-Tree Shamans, Witness, or any of the other possibilities that exist.
I think Shamans is like a combo deck. You need enough shamans on the field and then Rageforger to help with the finish. We need more looks to find Rageforger. Running 8 spells in addition at a Fauna Shaman/Flamekin Harbinger means we can reliably find Rage forgers or whatever else we need.
Here is my thoughts on a build. I would be glad to take some hints.
So what are your thoughts fellow shaman players? specifically @D90Dennis14 or @pizzap
I am not sold on Leafcrown Elder or Ulvenwald Tracker. They could be more metallic mimics or just something else like the Wolf-Skull Shamans, more Burning-Tree Shamans, Witness, or any of the other possibilities that exist.
My experience with the deck says its not viable as combo. Its slow, easy to disrupt and weak: its only "your creatures get +2/+2". So I dont think going all in for combo is a good idea. Shamans is a fine deck which can be explosive, can be grindy, can snatch a win off a Cavern, but it lacks speed and interaction. It is waiting for some good additions to replace its weak parts like Burning-Tree Shaman which was subpar and got nerfed even more.
Deck should play twelve 1-drops to curve out more consistently into turn 3 Rage Forger with a 1-drop and a 2-drop on board. He suggested 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Experiment One and 4 Flamekin Harbinger. Overall Rage Forger is our main pay off and the reason to play shamans, and our goal is to maximize his efficiency.
That's interesting one also. Adaptive Automaton is better than Metallic Mimic (at least in theory). Just because Mimic is worse topdeck, worse as the targetfor CoCo and we don't need extra counters THAT much cause Rage Forger is already strong enough card. 2 Automatons is his choice.
Obvious one. We need to maximize our CoCo targets. At least 30 creatures. The only non-CoCo-targetable cards are Lightning Bolt (2-3 in mainboard) and maybe one Shaman of the Great Hunt if you like this card.
Gonna try this list (which based on his list he made in the end of the video) in modo this weekend.
I probably would keep the Banneret as it helps chaining together Shamans (epsecially Visionary) to build up for a big Rage Forge'd swing. Rattleclaw is obviously a 4-of in a CoCo list regardless.
Automaton vs Mimic is pretty whether you rely more on CoCo or on going quicker (and having CoCo as backup later in the game to rebuild).
Deck should play twelve 1-drops to curve out more consistently into turn 3 Rage Forger with a 1-drop and a 2-drop on board. He suggested 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Experiment One and 4 Flamekin Harbinger. Overall Rage Forger is our main pay off and the reason to play shamans, and our goal is to maximize his efficiency.
That's interesting one also. Adaptive Automaton is better than Metallic Mimic (at least in theory). Just because Mimic is worse topdeck, worse as the targetfor CoCo and we don't need extra counters THAT much cause Rage Forger is already strong enough card. 2 Automatons is his choice.
Obvious one. We need to maximize our CoCo targets. At least 30 creatures. The only non-CoCo-targetable cards are Lightning Bolt (2-3 in mainboard) and maybe one Shaman of the Great Hunt if you like this card.
Gonna try this list (which based on his list he made in the end of the video) in modo this weekend.
I agree with his thoughts on Coco build. Though there are very few ways to make Experiment One bigger than 2/2 in this list.
I think it is often overlooked that to have a chance on success with Coco, you have to run mana dorks that enable it. If your plan is to play Lead the Stampede t3 into creatures t4 or Coco t4, you are not winning t4, meaning you are losing the game against metagame (unless you use discard or counterspells which you dont).
Btw Coco is not as great here as in Elves and GWx Company, builds without it can be just fine
The Alpine Moon is an interesting Blood Moon alternative. We don't need Blood moon itself as it throws the curve off a little, but this enchantment might a be good replacement for Valakut and Tron to buy us the time we need.
Hey Shamanism! Who's pumped for new possible Gruul tools in the next set? I'm just popping in to see how people feel about Plaguecrafter? I know it's yet another 3cmc toolbox card, but the effect seems fairly strong and 3/2 isn't a bad body in this deck.
Plaguecrafter and Pelt Collector are the 2 cards that could see play in Shamans.
Since RG Shamans is primarily an aggro deck, it might be tough for Plaguecrafter to see play in the aggro strategy we currently have. Jund Shamans lends itself to a more midrange build. It could be an excellent curve topper though in the right set. Sacrificing a birds or a Flamekin Harbinger and then the following turn playing Rageforger could lead to a blow out against midrange/shadow and other type decks, but you are being relatively neutral rather than maximising the gain of Rageforger.
Pelt Collector is a bit more interesting due to the interactions with Wolf-Skull Shaman (getting an additional wolf). It gets counters from a lot of our creatures so Rageforger is turned on. It can get bigger if people target rageforger, and is removal bait in and of itself. It can get trample which is darn good to finish people off.
I hesitate though to play Shamans in the age of Humans. 2 reasons - People are packing anti-human interaction which hurts us. The other is meddling mage from humans means we need Aether Vial or the plan goes to crap. Lightning Bolt or Rageforger may mean we could be locked and they get bigger than us.
I think the kin being a 1/1 that doesn't provide card advantage is a bit weak on the whole. The Pelt Collector may generally get bigger than experiment one due to the Death-trigger. The death-trigger allows Pelt Collector to get bigger than experiment one. Pelt Collector, Burning-Tree Emissary, into whatever, and followed on turn 3 by rage forger. They remove rageforger and pelt collector is now a 3/3. To me, that is the point of Pelt Collector in addition to Wolf-Skull Shaman. It isn't a perfect one drop, just a more serviceable one that Experiment One.
I think the kin being a 1/1 that doesn't provide card advantage is a bit weak on the whole. The Pelt Collector may generally get bigger than experiment one due to the Death-trigger. The death-trigger allows Pelt Collector to get bigger than experiment one. Pelt Collector, Burning-Tree Emissary, into whatever, and followed on turn 3 by rage forger. They remove rageforger and pelt collector is now a 3/3. To me, that is the point of Pelt Collector in addition to Wolf-Skull Shaman. It isn't a perfect one drop, just a more serviceable one that Experiment One.
I don't understand. How a 2/2 Pelt Collector will get a counter if your 2/2 Rage Forger dies? Collector's ability triggers only if entering or dying creature has greater power.
I don't know what's your build, but in my build there are no shamans with 3+ power at all which can help Experiment One or Collector to grow larger than 2/2 which is meh. And I think most builds have maximum 2-3 creatures that trigger him.
I even think Experiment is better in most cases. He can at least be triggeed by 1/3 Bosk Banneret, and regeneration is an ok option if your build allows him to grow. Meanwhile Collector with two counters is just a 3/3 even without trample.
Yeah yeah it triggers Wolf-Skull if you play them, being an elf is useful. But I disappointed in them a long ago and don't wanna play them again.
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The best I could find was Kumena's Speaker
I discarded it because there were no merfolks nor islands in the deck
With Phantasmal Image replacing Burning-Tree Shaman it worth a test
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Does it?
I’m digging through my cards hoping I didn’t trade mine away.
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I don't think Bloodbraid Elf helps us much. CoCo is better due to its instant speed and getting 2 creatures we really want. Unless we are playing nissa, voice of zendikar, we can't reliably get counters onto the hasty elf.
Not sure about Speaker. I think even some non-shaman cards like Experiment One look more interesting. If followed by turn 2 BTE + Bosk Banneret it becomes a good clock with a defensive tool.
But I think the Shaman builds and overall phylosophy gonna change a bit with Bloodbraid unban because you really want to play BBE on turn 3 with 1- or 2-mana dorks. I even consider a build with four 2-mana dorks, three CoCos and two BBEs.
BRG Shamans
WUBRGElementals
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
CoCo is probably better and can be a 4x-of instead.
I think Shamans is like a combo deck. You need enough shamans on the field and then Rageforger to help with the finish. We need more looks to find Rageforger. Running 8 spells in addition at a Fauna Shaman/Flamekin Harbinger means we can reliably find Rage forgers or whatever else we need.
Here is my thoughts on a build. I would be glad to take some hints.
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
2x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bosk Banneret
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Burning-Tree Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
3x Flamekin Harbinger
1x Goblin Ruinblaster
1x Leaf-Crowned Elder
2x Metallic Mimic
4x Rage Forger
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Ulvenwald Tracker
4x Adventurous Impulse
4x Oath of Nissa
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2x Abrade
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Dismember
3x Essence Warden
1x Eternal Witness
1x Goblin Ruinblaster
1x Loaming Shaman
2x Reclamation Sage
1x Stigma Lasher
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
So what are your thoughts fellow shaman players? specifically @D90Dennis14 or @pizzap
I am not sold on Leafcrown Elder or Ulvenwald Tracker. They could be more metallic mimics or just something else like the Wolf-Skull Shamans, more Burning-Tree Shamans, Witness, or any of the other possibilities that exist.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
So, his ideas:
4 Experiment One
3 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Flamekin Harbinger
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Rage Forger
2 Adaptive Automaton
2 Eternal Witness
4 Collected Company
1 Shaman of the Great Hunt
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Damping Sphere
3 Reclamation Sage
1 Burning-Tree Shaman
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Cunning Sparkmage
BRG Shamans
WUBRGElementals
I don't really like Firedrinker Satyr as it is just a terrible creature, I'd prefer Kolaghan Stormsinger as a Shaman 1-drop or even Rakdos Cackler
(or Rigging Runner/Skarrgan Pit-Skulk) as a 1-drop with a +1/+1 counter for Rage Forger even if it can't block (as Firedrinker is a terrible blocker anyway).
I probably would keep the Banneret as it helps chaining together Shamans (epsecially Visionary) to build up for a big Rage Forge'd swing.
Rattleclaw is obviously a 4-of in a CoCo list regardless.
Automaton vs Mimic is pretty whether you rely more on CoCo or on going quicker (and having CoCo as backup later in the game to rebuild).
I think it is often overlooked that to have a chance on success with Coco, you have to run mana dorks that enable it. If your plan is to play Lead the Stampede t3 into creatures t4 or Coco t4, you are not winning t4, meaning you are losing the game against metagame (unless you use discard or counterspells which you dont).
Btw Coco is not as great here as in Elves and GWx Company, builds without it can be just fine
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Since RG Shamans is primarily an aggro deck, it might be tough for Plaguecrafter to see play in the aggro strategy we currently have. Jund Shamans lends itself to a more midrange build. It could be an excellent curve topper though in the right set. Sacrificing a birds or a Flamekin Harbinger and then the following turn playing Rageforger could lead to a blow out against midrange/shadow and other type decks, but you are being relatively neutral rather than maximising the gain of Rageforger.
Pelt Collector is a bit more interesting due to the interactions with Wolf-Skull Shaman (getting an additional wolf). It gets counters from a lot of our creatures so Rageforger is turned on. It can get bigger if people target rageforger, and is removal bait in and of itself. It can get trample which is darn good to finish people off.
I hesitate though to play Shamans in the age of Humans. 2 reasons - People are packing anti-human interaction which hurts us. The other is meddling mage from humans means we need Aether Vial or the plan goes to crap. Lightning Bolt or Rageforger may mean we could be locked and they get bigger than us.
Pelt Collector has the same problem as Experiment One - in most builds this guy too rarely grows larget than 2/2, so I'd still better played Kolaghan Stormsinger.
BRG Shamans
WUBRGElementals
I think the kin being a 1/1 that doesn't provide card advantage is a bit weak on the whole. The Pelt Collector may generally get bigger than experiment one due to the Death-trigger. The death-trigger allows Pelt Collector to get bigger than experiment one. Pelt Collector, Burning-Tree Emissary, into whatever, and followed on turn 3 by rage forger. They remove rageforger and pelt collector is now a 3/3. To me, that is the point of Pelt Collector in addition to Wolf-Skull Shaman. It isn't a perfect one drop, just a more serviceable one that Experiment One.
I don't understand. How a 2/2 Pelt Collector will get a counter if your 2/2 Rage Forger dies? Collector's ability triggers only if entering or dying creature has greater power.
I don't know what's your build, but in my build there are no shamans with 3+ power at all which can help Experiment One or Collector to grow larger than 2/2 which is meh. And I think most builds have maximum 2-3 creatures that trigger him.
I even think Experiment is better in most cases. He can at least be triggeed by 1/3 Bosk Banneret, and regeneration is an ok option if your build allows him to grow. Meanwhile Collector with two counters is just a 3/3 even without trample.
Yeah yeah it triggers Wolf-Skull if you play them, being an elf is useful. But I disappointed in them a long ago and don't wanna play them again.
BRG Shamans
WUBRGElementals