Spoilers for the upcoming set Throne of Eldraine are coming out, so this is the official thread to discuss all new cards in. As always, make sure your posts follow the subforum rules.
The more I see of the adventure creature cards in Throne of Eldrain, the more I wonder if we’ll see some Collected Company brews in modern which are geared toward maximizing CoCo value since they are interactive spells that CoCo can still hit and therefore give you less whiffs. I could maybe see an adventure CoCo list that runs Man O’ War for tempo as well as repeated adventure spell if value if needed.
But what I'm really interested in is Wishclaw Talisman. There are several ways to make this a one-sided tutor: tutor for a card that wins the game this turn, sacrifice it in response to its ability with something like Goblin Engineer, destroy it with something like Ancient Grudge, bounce it with something like Teferi, Time Raveler, hose it with Karn, the Great Creator or maybe anti-search...Whirza looks like it's one of its best homes because it wants the ability to Whir of Invention for arbitrary cards, it can use it to Improvise for Whir, it's got an infinite combo, and it can make Goblin Engineer or Sai, Master Thopterist sac it in response.
On another note, I've tested Oko, Thief of Crowns in Whirza, and he's been fine, even if I'm not wholly convinced that he's equal to Teferi, Time Raveler. Oko has some dandy synergy with the artifact theme of the deck, he can protect himself the turn he ETB given Whirza's plentiful artifacts, and he's got a bucket of Beast Withins and an exchange mechanism to deal with threats such as Collector Ouphe.
I think Wishclaw Talisman is easily the best card spoiled so far and has a chance to really shake up Modern.
Edit: Looks like Lectrys mentioned a lot of what I was going to say so just count me as a +1.
I think this is going to be an excellent constructed card for all sorts of combo decks in Modern, Legacy and possibly even vintage (Paradoxical Outcome storm bounce the artifact while the trigger is on the stack to draw a card and return it to your hand - anyone? Paradoxical Outcome also runs a Tinker for Bolas's Citadel but in a pinch you could Tinker for this and activate it to get Tendrils of Agony.)
In fact, I feel there's a chance this could be the next Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis and end up banned in modern.
She can come down for one mana and cast a mox opal or mox amber and refund herself while also filling the yard. I think this card has a really high ceiling and is very powerful.
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She can come down for one mana and cast a mox opal or mox amber and refund herself while also filling the yard. I think this card has a really high ceiling and is very powerful.
Her only weakness is that she has to tap to cast an artifact from the graveyard. Giving your opponent an entire turn to respond isn't something that combo can always afford to do.
Drown in the Loch seems to be very powerful for modern. A staple in any UBx deck and should hopefully push Grixis Shadow back into the top tiers. Both modes are poor against Tron but they seem good against most other decks
Will Goblins decks try going for an infinite combo with Grumgully, the Generous, an infinite sac outlet goblin, and a Persist goblin, or will they stick to the good old good old? Now Goblin Matron can tutor for all 3 pieces of the combo!
How good does Stonecoil Serpent look in Hardened Scales decks? Scalable size, being an artifact creature, getting quite a few +1/+1 counters on it as it ETB is quite fun, and reach, trample, and protection from multicolored are quite fun.
Might Murderous Rider see play as a 3-mana unconditional creature/planeswalker removal spell that creature tutors can find?
Hoping the other members of the rare land cycle are as good as Castle Locthwain: that land ETB tapped unless you control a Swamp, produces 1 black mana only, but lets you draw a card and then lose life equal to the number of cards in your hand for only 1BB, t! Decks like BGx Midrange, Death's Shadow decks, and 8-Rack look like they can support it...
EDIT: OK, Castle Ardenvale at least looks like it's at Castle Locthwain level. ETB tapped unless you have a Plains, produces 1 white mana only, and makes a 1/1 white Human creature token for 2WW, t! It looks like a less demanding version of Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, and I think anything from UWx Control to Death and Taxes may want this card.
Any way to break Escape to the Wilds? It's almost Draw 5 for 5 (sorcery-speed) mana as long as you can cast all the spells and drop all the lands before the end of your next turn...and you get an additional land drop this turn. Oh, it costs 3RG.
Robin Hood (best card in the set)
Once Upon a Time (runner up)
Stonecoil Serpent (not sure if it replaces Wurmcoil, but it's definitely worth trying)
Drown in the Loch
Witches Vengeance (sideboard only)
and maybe Wishclaw Talisman, but it honestly seems kinda janky
there are a few roleplayers, but Robin Hood and Once Upon a Time are the only two that I am absolutely sure about. anybody else looking super seriously at anything i missed for Modern?
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I personally have my doubts about Robin Hood. He needs to attack to be any good unless he's blocking fliers that day.
Ah yes, the big dump of cards I'm thinking of testing that haven't been mentioned here:
Fae of Wishes: A (4-mana) wish tutor is powerful; the ability to tutor again is more powerful still. Might it make it in Mono-U Tron or UGrx Scapeshift? I know I'm having success with it so far in Paradoxical Urza: I've searched for initial combo pieces with it quite a few times so far, so it's better than a dedicated win con.
Mystic Sanctuary: It's a fetchable Island that can topdeck recur an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard in the mid-late game. It was deceptively good in last night's testing in UW Miracle Control, but needing 3 other Islands in order to topdeck recur kinda sucks.
Castle Garenbrig: OK, I guess I do have to agree with the guys who say it's a land that taps for 2 mana. Primeval Titan loves this land.
Dwarven Mine: A Mountain that can make a 1/1 is powerful, but it runs into much the same issues as Mystic Sanctuary. Nice supplement to Field of the Dead, though...
Hushbringer: I'm sure it will see sideboard play. Stifling "dies" triggers on top of ETB triggers is quite powerful.
Charming Prince: Interesting option for life gain sideboard dude...or blinker. Might Bant Soulherder be interested along with Emeria decks?
Witching Well: Some Whirza guys are interested in this and its ability to increase deck consistency.
Hypnotic Sprite: Yet another way to sneak counterspells into a Collected Company deck. Too bad it can't counter anything when cheated in.
Merchant of the Vale: A 1-mana instant discard outlet is probably the reason you're playing this guy.
The Magic Mirror: Great card draw, but how often is this better than Jace TMS?
Merfolk Secretkeeper: Vengevine No Hogaak players are interested in this card as a 2-mana self-mill 4 dude.
Fervent Champion: His most broken interaction seems to be with Sunforger. Luckily, we have ways to tutor for both in a midrange shell!
Fires of Invention: Is there a way to break this card? At the very least, this might see play as the inevitability 1-of in Living End: it lets them cast Living End from their hand and play 2 creatures in a single turn instead of 1.
Irencrag Feat: Might there be a Big Red deck that wants this card?
Irencrag Pyromancer: A powerful payoff for cantrip-happy decks. Shame UR Phoenix pretty much died...
Redcap Melee: Instant-speed Flame Slash that can also hit planeswalkers is groovy, but how costly is sacrificing a land in order to do so?
Gilded Goose: I'm not that confident it will see play, but it's an intriguing combination of mana dork and life gain.
Kenrith's Transformation: How desperate are mono-green or UG decks for creature quality changing that cantrips? It might be a maindeckable way for Hardened Scales to deal with Collector Ouphe, but losing abilities when this is on their own dudes bites, even though it grants lots of them +3/+3.
Sorcerer's Broom: Hilarious way to gain a swarm of creatures in Spirits decks? Or does it even have to be a Spirits deck as long as you have enough fetchlands?
Robin Hood is bad because he has to attack? He doesn't even have to connect to get you the card, just attack. how many red creatures don't have to connect to get value in Modern? I think Eidolon may be the only one. I hope everyone agrees with you and the other people not respecting this card so I can get it cheap, but I don't see any way this isn't the star of the set by the time it rotates from Standard
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Robin Hood is bad because he has to attack? He doesn't even have to connect to get you the card, just attack. how many red creatures don't have to connect to get value in Modern? I think Eidolon may be the only one. I hope everyone agrees with you and the other people not respecting this card so I can get it cheap, but I don't see any way this isn't the star of the set by the time it rotates from Standard
Young Pyromancer just needs you to hold priority and cast an instant or sorcery in order to get value. Seasoned Pyromancer doesn't even need that. Bedlam Reveler is expensive or a late-game play but is instant value.
But I've killed so many Goblin Rabblemasters before they had a chance to make any Goblin tokens and so many Kiki-Jikis before they could truly go infinite that I cannot treat Robber of the Rich like he's on par with Young Pyromancer.
Robin Hood is bad because he has to attack? He doesn't even have to connect to get you the card, just attack. how many red creatures don't have to connect to get value in Modern? I think Eidolon may be the only one. I hope everyone agrees with you and the other people not respecting this card so I can get it cheap, but I don't see any way this isn't the star of the set by the time it rotates from Standard
Young Pyromancer just needs you to hold priority and cast an instant or sorcery in order to get value. Seasoned Pyromancer doesn't even need that. Bedlam Reveler is expensive or a late-game play but is instant value.
But I've killed so many Goblin Rabblemasters before they had a chance to make any Goblin tokens and so many Kiki-Jikis before they could truly go infinite that I cannot treat Robber of the Rich like he's on par with Young Pyromancer.
the tokens off of either Pyromancer still need to attack to do anything, and YP is really more of a Legacy card than anything that matters in Modern, because a 1/1 with no abilities is bad. I will give you Reveler. Same for Rabblemaster and Kiki-Jiki, they aren't really the real deal in Modern most of the time. and at 5 mana or 3 without Haste, they really aren't comparable to a 2-drop with haste. Reveler is a card in Modern, let's say SP is as well, even though it hasn't torn anything up, the card is strong for sure. but the best red creatures in the format are Swiftspear and Goblin Guide. they see the most play, they have had the most success. both have haste, but need to attack and actually connect to be worth beans. Guide has a potential drawback, and Swiftspear is really more of a 2-drop than a true 1-drop. Robin Hood gets you as much damage as Goblin Guide if it connects, and it takes a card from the opponent if it just swings, a card you can cast. and because this is Modern, I will usually take whatever is on the top of your deck over 2 Elementals.
I am not saying it is a fact that it is good enough, or that my judgement is always great, I had a binder full of Hero of Leina Tower at one point (although I killed it on Stoneforge) just that it compares well to the cards that do already make the cut
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Currently I play 50% UW control, 40% Affinity, and 10% random jank depending on my mood and the meta. From a few days of testing:
Drown in the Loch is pretty good and might convince me to move from UW to Esper short term. Being modal it is rarely a dead card compared to something like Veto or Push. It scales so it is solid in almost all stages of the game and only once do I remember having to do work to turn it on. Very pleased with it. Started with 2, testing with 3 now.
Mystic Sanctuary is really really good, but and I don't think I want more than 2. Testing 2 in UW and 1 in Esper. Some really interesting lines have come from running it. Path, fetch Mystic, top path, opt, path again. Against UW control I vetoed a PW with 4 mana up, responded to second PW with Cryptic bouncing Mystic, and slammed a Teferi and Mystic topping veto then ticked up and draw veto again. Oppo scooped. It will be a modern staple as at least a singleton in all control decks. It's also disgustingly good in Legacy Threshold decks.
Emry, Lurker of the Loch tested in Affinity. It was meh. Best work it did was take a bolt once that should have been directed at an Overseer. Experimental Frenzy is the engine to run and Emry does nothing to warrant one of the minimal slots left in the deck.
Ran into several Tron decks testing Once Upon a Time. T1 my response was "uggh". Anything later than that I was more like "yes please, sounds good." I would imagine if you flipped those thoughts I could have been in their mind.
Just join us on faeries. Discard plays really well with borrower
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I think in your scenario you would still want an exarch just to have an additional CMC to potentially combo off. It's a shame Pod is gone because this new card would have been sweet for that deck.
I think castle locthwain is gonna be great for BGx and particularly Death's Shadow.
While Mystic Sanctuary is a house in UW Control. The counter-lock combo with Deprive should not be over-looked. Much easier on the mana than the old Eternal Command lock. And the new Sanctuary works just fine Cryptic Command as well
I don't get how Mystic Sanctuary counterspell locks work. Don't you cast your counterspell on their turn, bounce your Sanctuary then, draw a card on your turn, then play Sanctuary topdeck recurring the counterspell, therefore resulting in a counterspell every second turn instead of every turn?
I don't get how Mystic Sanctuary counterspell locks work. Don't you cast your counterspell on their turn, bounce your Sanctuary then, draw a card on your turn, then play Sanctuary topdeck recurring the counterspell, therefore resulting in a counterspell every second turn instead of every turn?
As a two-card combo, it only works every other turn, but it works every turn with a planeswalker, optimally Jace or Big Teferi, thrown into the mix.
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You can see all official spoilers on the official WOTC page, or on the MTGS spoiler page.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Beanstalk Giant might see play in RGx Titanshift as a ramp spell attached to an additional threat.
Once Upon a Time looks dandy in creature-based combo decks.
But what I'm really interested in is Wishclaw Talisman. There are several ways to make this a one-sided tutor: tutor for a card that wins the game this turn, sacrifice it in response to its ability with something like Goblin Engineer, destroy it with something like Ancient Grudge, bounce it with something like Teferi, Time Raveler, hose it with Karn, the Great Creator or maybe anti-search...Whirza looks like it's one of its best homes because it wants the ability to Whir of Invention for arbitrary cards, it can use it to Improvise for Whir, it's got an infinite combo, and it can make Goblin Engineer or Sai, Master Thopterist sac it in response.
On another note, I've tested Oko, Thief of Crowns in Whirza, and he's been fine, even if I'm not wholly convinced that he's equal to Teferi, Time Raveler. Oko has some dandy synergy with the artifact theme of the deck, he can protect himself the turn he ETB given Whirza's plentiful artifacts, and he's got a bucket of Beast Withins and an exchange mechanism to deal with threats such as Collector Ouphe.
Edit: Looks like Lectrys mentioned a lot of what I was going to say so just count me as a +1.
Quoting what I said in the cube forum:
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
Her only weakness is that she has to tap to cast an artifact from the graveyard. Giving your opponent an entire turn to respond isn't something that combo can always afford to do.
Draft My Cube!
How good does Stonecoil Serpent look in Hardened Scales decks? Scalable size, being an artifact creature, getting quite a few +1/+1 counters on it as it ETB is quite fun, and reach, trample, and protection from multicolored are quite fun.
Might Murderous Rider see play as a 3-mana unconditional creature/planeswalker removal spell that creature tutors can find?
EDIT: OK, Castle Ardenvale at least looks like it's at Castle Locthwain level. ETB tapped unless you have a Plains, produces 1 white mana only, and makes a 1/1 white Human creature token for 2WW, t! It looks like a less demanding version of Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, and I think anything from UWx Control to Death and Taxes may want this card.
Any way to break Escape to the Wilds? It's almost Draw 5 for 5 (sorcery-speed) mana as long as you can cast all the spells and drop all the lands before the end of your next turn...and you get an additional land drop this turn. Oh, it costs 3RG.
I like
Robin Hood (best card in the set)
Once Upon a Time (runner up)
Stonecoil Serpent (not sure if it replaces Wurmcoil, but it's definitely worth trying)
Drown in the Loch
Witches Vengeance (sideboard only)
and maybe Wishclaw Talisman, but it honestly seems kinda janky
there are a few roleplayers, but Robin Hood and Once Upon a Time are the only two that I am absolutely sure about. anybody else looking super seriously at anything i missed for Modern?
Ah yes, the big dump of cards I'm thinking of testing that haven't been mentioned here:
Fae of Wishes: A (4-mana) wish tutor is powerful; the ability to tutor again is more powerful still. Might it make it in Mono-U Tron or UGrx Scapeshift? I know I'm having success with it so far in Paradoxical Urza: I've searched for initial combo pieces with it quite a few times so far, so it's better than a dedicated win con.
Mystic Sanctuary: It's a fetchable Island that can topdeck recur an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard in the mid-late game. It was deceptively good in last night's testing in UW Miracle Control, but needing 3 other Islands in order to topdeck recur kinda sucks.
Castle Garenbrig: OK, I guess I do have to agree with the guys who say it's a land that taps for 2 mana. Primeval Titan loves this land.
Dwarven Mine: A Mountain that can make a 1/1 is powerful, but it runs into much the same issues as Mystic Sanctuary. Nice supplement to Field of the Dead, though...
Hushbringer: I'm sure it will see sideboard play. Stifling "dies" triggers on top of ETB triggers is quite powerful.
Deafening Silence: It's this close to being a 1-drop Rule of Law. That's gotta see sideboard play.
Glass Casket: An intriguing way to Whir of Invention for removal that ignores Collector Ouphe and friends.
Charming Prince: Interesting option for life gain sideboard dude...or blinker. Might Bant Soulherder be interested along with Emeria decks?
Witching Well: Some Whirza guys are interested in this and its ability to increase deck consistency.
Hypnotic Sprite: Yet another way to sneak counterspells into a Collected Company deck. Too bad it can't counter anything when cheated in.
Merchant of the Vale: A 1-mana instant discard outlet is probably the reason you're playing this guy.
The Magic Mirror: Great card draw, but how often is this better than Jace TMS?
Merfolk Secretkeeper: Vengevine No Hogaak players are interested in this card as a 2-mana self-mill 4 dude.
Fervent Champion: His most broken interaction seems to be with Sunforger. Luckily, we have ways to tutor for both in a midrange shell!
Fires of Invention: Is there a way to break this card? At the very least, this might see play as the inevitability 1-of in Living End: it lets them cast Living End from their hand and play 2 creatures in a single turn instead of 1.
Irencrag Feat: Might there be a Big Red deck that wants this card?
Irencrag Pyromancer: A powerful payoff for cantrip-happy decks. Shame UR Phoenix pretty much died...
Redcap Melee: Instant-speed Flame Slash that can also hit planeswalkers is groovy, but how costly is sacrificing a land in order to do so?
Thrill of Possibility: It's instant-speed Tormenting Voice.
Gilded Goose: I'm not that confident it will see play, but it's an intriguing combination of mana dork and life gain.
Kenrith's Transformation: How desperate are mono-green or UG decks for creature quality changing that cantrips? It might be a maindeckable way for Hardened Scales to deal with Collector Ouphe, but losing abilities when this is on their own dudes bites, even though it grants lots of them +3/+3.
Rosethorn Halberd: Will the lack of Trample prevent this from playing a Rancor-like role?
Chulane, Teller of Tales: There's gotta be a way to break this guy, right?
Dance of the Manse: Somebody is going to want to play artifact/enchantment reanimation.
Doom Foretold: Reminds others of The Abyss, but how powerful will it be?
Sorcerer's Broom: Hilarious way to gain a swarm of creatures in Spirits decks? Or does it even have to be a Spirits deck as long as you have enough fetchlands?
Young Pyromancer just needs you to hold priority and cast an instant or sorcery in order to get value. Seasoned Pyromancer doesn't even need that. Bedlam Reveler is expensive or a late-game play but is instant value.
But I've killed so many Goblin Rabblemasters before they had a chance to make any Goblin tokens and so many Kiki-Jikis before they could truly go infinite that I cannot treat Robber of the Rich like he's on par with Young Pyromancer.
the tokens off of either Pyromancer still need to attack to do anything, and YP is really more of a Legacy card than anything that matters in Modern, because a 1/1 with no abilities is bad. I will give you Reveler. Same for Rabblemaster and Kiki-Jiki, they aren't really the real deal in Modern most of the time. and at 5 mana or 3 without Haste, they really aren't comparable to a 2-drop with haste. Reveler is a card in Modern, let's say SP is as well, even though it hasn't torn anything up, the card is strong for sure. but the best red creatures in the format are Swiftspear and Goblin Guide. they see the most play, they have had the most success. both have haste, but need to attack and actually connect to be worth beans. Guide has a potential drawback, and Swiftspear is really more of a 2-drop than a true 1-drop. Robin Hood gets you as much damage as Goblin Guide if it connects, and it takes a card from the opponent if it just swings, a card you can cast. and because this is Modern, I will usually take whatever is on the top of your deck over 2 Elementals.
I am not saying it is a fact that it is good enough, or that my judgement is always great, I had a binder full of Hero of Leina Tower at one point (although I killed it on Stoneforge) just that it compares well to the cards that do already make the cut
Drown in the Loch is pretty good and might convince me to move from UW to Esper short term. Being modal it is rarely a dead card compared to something like Veto or Push. It scales so it is solid in almost all stages of the game and only once do I remember having to do work to turn it on. Very pleased with it. Started with 2, testing with 3 now.
Mystic Sanctuary is really really good, but and I don't think I want more than 2. Testing 2 in UW and 1 in Esper. Some really interesting lines have come from running it. Path, fetch Mystic, top path, opt, path again. Against UW control I vetoed a PW with 4 mana up, responded to second PW with Cryptic bouncing Mystic, and slammed a Teferi and Mystic topping veto then ticked up and draw veto again. Oppo scooped. It will be a modern staple as at least a singleton in all control decks. It's also disgustingly good in Legacy Threshold decks.
Emry, Lurker of the Loch tested in Affinity. It was meh. Best work it did was take a bolt once that should have been directed at an Overseer. Experimental Frenzy is the engine to run and Emry does nothing to warrant one of the minimal slots left in the deck.
Ran into several Tron decks testing Once Upon a Time. T1 my response was "uggh". Anything later than that I was more like "yes please, sounds good." I would imagine if you flipped those thoughts I could have been in their mind.
Tonight I'm going to test Brazen Borrower, Fae of Wishes, and maybe Hypnotic Sprite in a UB Tempo deck for giggles. If it works I'll call it "Brazers".
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I think in your scenario you would still want an exarch just to have an additional CMC to potentially combo off. It's a shame Pod is gone because this new card would have been sweet for that deck.
I think castle locthwain is gonna be great for BGx and particularly Death's Shadow.
While Mystic Sanctuary is a house in UW Control. The counter-lock combo with Deprive should not be over-looked. Much easier on the mana than the old Eternal Command lock. And the new Sanctuary works just fine Cryptic Command as well
Draft My Cube!
As a two-card combo, it only works every other turn, but it works every turn with a planeswalker, optimally Jace or Big Teferi, thrown into the mix.