@socketto
What is the best graveyard hate to have?
Surgical Extraction, just because it has so many broad applications. As for strict graveyard hate, nothing beats Rest in Peace when you're on the play.
If someone has the power of luck on their side and isn't able to make white mana, maybe Leyline of the Void as another possible option? It is, at least, another thing besides Surgical that can fight turn 1 phoenixes? Only really works when it's in the opening hand though for the key times against most Modern graveyard decks though. Seems like it would be risky to rely on trying to mulligan to it, especially against Phoenix which has other plans like Thing in the Ice.
Yeah, Leyline of the Void in the opening hand is better than Rest in Pepperonis. I kind of went on my own personal experiences, which made me forget Leyline of the Void. While I've seen it a million times in Legacy games where they literally can't cast it, I've rarely seen I against me in Modern. But it definitely is the 2nd best right now. I do think that Rest in Pepperonis is close though...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
And then people wondering how they could loose the game with rest in peace and leyline. They are baaaaad, because they are permanents. Take surgical or underplayed relics. If you don't understand why, you will never really beat graveyard strategies
And then people wondering how they could loose the game with rest in peace and leyline. They are baaaaad, because they are permanents. Take surgical or underplayed relics. If you don't understand why, you will never really beat graveyard strategies
Except one-shot effects are far too weak for dredge when they can just fill the graveyard again.
Yes, if you use 1 relic instead of 4 leylines. But if you use 4 relics like me in each deck, it is a happy day each time I face dredge. And not forget they board too a lot of useless cards which are mostly dead... If you don't use leylines. But you can still try it 4645 times till you understand it
Yes, if you use 1 relic instead of 4 leylines. But if you use 4 relics like me in each deck, it is a happy day each time I face dredge. And not forget they board too a lot of useless cards which are mostly dead... If you don't use leylines. But you can still try it 4645 times till you understand it
I mean, yeah duh, of course you run a bunch of hate. The question is how many copies you need to draw over the course of a game.
1 is enough in my experience. Let 1 mana open and he can't go of and kill you. He need to force to use and if you do it, you are on top allready and thus without loosing cards. I tryed leylines, I tryed relic and even people still not believe it.. Relics are way better. Put your leyline in and watch how he destroy it turn 1 if you don't believe it. They are prepared to turn 1 leylines and not only with 1 card. It is not worth to try it
It doesn't fit into any of the current top decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Humans, Spirits, Death's Shadow, Hardened Scales, Tron, UW control, Amulet, Rock, Jund, Burn, Whir Prison.
The only deck it fits into is Ad Nauseam, and even there its awkward and probably worse than Spirit Guide. So can someone explain this to me? Are there any decks I am forgetting?
Thank you for the great insight on permanent type grave hate. What would be good artifact grave hate as some decks do not have access to white or black?
I have been reading and listening to so many different peoples opinions and suggestions as to what is the best deck during any given season or event. No matter what everyone will have their own opinions,some can agree and some can or should agree to disagree. Modern I feel is very diverse and many major events where there is big money involved seems to be not as heavily diverse as say a local LGS type tournament.
Another question I have is what is everyone's opinion on FNM type tournaments, Are they more a casual just for fun or should they be a competitive prepare for the big tournament setting?
Thank you for the great insight on permanent type grave hate.
TBH, he way overstates his position in respect to RiP. RiP exile the GY when it comes into play, so it always does something. Its main problem is its 3 CMC. Meanwhile, the virtues of relic are overstated. Keeping 1 mana open basically means giving them 1 turn, and they can immediately rebuild once you sac it.
Just wtach people playing dredge: they will simply not spent all their resource and since you keep mana open, they have more time to kill you more slowly. Plus dredge is always on top-deck away from refilling, it seems.
And you're right, dredge can brute force through 1 or 2 relics without too much trouble with decent dredges. Creeping chills still do their thing. Creatures can still be cast. He talks like its so easy to just hold up relic. Dredge doesn't need to blow their load in one big turn. They can play the slow game just fine and it's not like they don't run nature's claim to force the relic.
Are you gonna crack the relic when it's a bloodghast coming back to trigger an amalgam? If you do, pretty easy to start refilling again next turn, if not here's 5 power on the board, deal with it.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Thank you for the great insight on permanent type grave hate.
TBH, he way overstates his position in respect to RiP. RiP exile the GY when it comes into play, so it always does something. Its main problem is its 3 CMC. Meanwhile, the virtues of relic are overstated. Keeping 1 mana open basically means giving them 1 turn, and they can immediately rebuild once you sac it.
Just wtach people playing dredge: they will simply not spent all their resource and since you keep mana open, they have more time to kill you more slowly. Plus dredge is always on top-deck away from refilling, it seems.
no, he can't do anything if relic is on play. Great he spend not all his cards because of it like you say? Perfekt! Time is on your side and time is what most of you don't have versus them. Believe me, I play several years now each of my decks with 4 relics in main or at least side. I never have any problems versus them. I know this for sure. If he force you to crack, he loose something and you not, he loose allready 4 cards for nothing because he sided in 4 nature's claim.... You can overrun him after it easy or play another relic... You need only 1-2 turns to slow him down without card disadvantage. He does nothing? Great... Time is your friend
And you're right, dredge can brute force through 1 or 2 relics without too much trouble with decent dredges. Creeping chills still do their thing. Creatures can still be cast. He talks like its so easy to just hold up relic. Dredge doesn't need to blow their load in one big turn. They can play the slow game just fine and it's not like they don't run nature's claim to force the relic.
Are you gonna crack the relic when it's a bloodghast coming back to trigger an amalgam? If you do, pretty easy to start refilling again next turn, if not here's 5 power on the board, deal with it.
how is this easy if you kill bloodghast and prize amalgam and lost nothing? Did you do nothing after this with your full hand? OK, then you need to die. At least you did something... That's more as bringing in leyline and be killed turn 1 or rest in peace if he got his cards allready. The reason why a lot of you will allways loose so often versus them, sorry for you if you are not able to understand why you need to change tactic. The reason why I am so bored if people want to ban something because of dredge. Hate them out, it is easy man. By the way, rest in peace is still better as leyline
If they're blowing up Leyline on T1, why are they not blowing up your Relic when you play it? Nature's Claim hits both artifacts and enchantments, as does Assassin's Trophy, and Ancient Grudge is much more common than Ray of Revelation.
I find it hard to believe you're seeing Leylines hit the bin when Relics are somehow immune to the exact same anti-hate and more. Dredge players know that their Whir Prison match is abysmal so they pack more artifact hate. Relic makes less sense than Leyline or RIP for those reasons.
If they're blowing up Leyline on T1, why are they not blowing up your Relic when you play it? Nature's Claim hits both artifacts and enchantments, as does Assassin's Trophy, and Ancient Grudge is much more common than Ray of Revelation.
I find it hard to believe you're seeing Leylines hit the bin when Relics are somehow immune to the exact same anti-hate and more. Dredge players know that their Whir Prison match is abysmal so they pack more artifact hate. Relic makes less sense than Leyline or RIP for those reasons.
I explained it allready. The key is allways let 1 mana open to let them have dead cards in hand. I saw so many people using it turn 1 and wondering why can't kill dredge after nature's claim. Play what you want turn 1, but never let him see your relic. Turn 2 you got them and they will sure surprised
So, we have at least 2 distinct UR archetypes in the top 8. One UR Moon/Control, one Izzet Phoenix. What does this tell us?
That multiple, separate archetypes of UR decks can coexist, so long as more than one of them isn't complete trash? Sounds like a perfect time for an unban.
It doesn't fit into any of the current top decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Humans, Spirits, Death's Shadow, Hardened Scales, Tron, UW control, Amulet, Rock, Jund, Burn, Whir Prison.
The only deck it fits into is Ad Nauseam, and even there its awkward and probably worse than Spirit Guide. So can someone explain this to me? Are there any decks I am forgetting?
Chrome Mox makes Modern Belcher a thing, and nobody wants that. Even if it wasn't for Belcher, think about what that card does. Fast mana only speeds decks up, and the decks that would most want something like this are fast combo decks. Does Modern really need to be faster and even more unfair than it currently is? No, it does not. So Chrome Mox would not be a good card to put into Modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Which of the new walkers are you planning to try to use?
As I am a combo player, I am looking forward to brewing with the new self mill jace with the lab maniac ability.
The Ral storm walker looks cool too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If someone has the power of luck on their side and isn't able to make white mana, maybe Leyline of the Void as another possible option? It is, at least, another thing besides Surgical that can fight turn 1 phoenixes? Only really works when it's in the opening hand though for the key times against most Modern graveyard decks though. Seems like it would be risky to rely on trying to mulligan to it, especially against Phoenix which has other plans like Thing in the Ice.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Except one-shot effects are far too weak for dredge when they can just fill the graveyard again.
I mean, yeah duh, of course you run a bunch of hate. The question is how many copies you need to draw over the course of a game.
It doesn't fit into any of the current top decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Humans, Spirits, Death's Shadow, Hardened Scales, Tron, UW control, Amulet, Rock, Jund, Burn, Whir Prison.
The only deck it fits into is Ad Nauseam, and even there its awkward and probably worse than Spirit Guide. So can someone explain this to me? Are there any decks I am forgetting?
I have been reading and listening to so many different peoples opinions and suggestions as to what is the best deck during any given season or event. No matter what everyone will have their own opinions,some can agree and some can or should agree to disagree. Modern I feel is very diverse and many major events where there is big money involved seems to be not as heavily diverse as say a local LGS type tournament.
Another question I have is what is everyone's opinion on FNM type tournaments, Are they more a casual just for fun or should they be a competitive prepare for the big tournament setting?
TBH, he way overstates his position in respect to RiP. RiP exile the GY when it comes into play, so it always does something. Its main problem is its 3 CMC. Meanwhile, the virtues of relic are overstated. Keeping 1 mana open basically means giving them 1 turn, and they can immediately rebuild once you sac it.
Just wtach people playing dredge: they will simply not spent all their resource and since you keep mana open, they have more time to kill you more slowly. Plus dredge is always on top-deck away from refilling, it seems.
And you're right, dredge can brute force through 1 or 2 relics without too much trouble with decent dredges. Creeping chills still do their thing. Creatures can still be cast. He talks like its so easy to just hold up relic. Dredge doesn't need to blow their load in one big turn. They can play the slow game just fine and it's not like they don't run nature's claim to force the relic.
Are you gonna crack the relic when it's a bloodghast coming back to trigger an amalgam? If you do, pretty easy to start refilling again next turn, if not here's 5 power on the board, deal with it.
I find it hard to believe you're seeing Leylines hit the bin when Relics are somehow immune to the exact same anti-hate and more. Dredge players know that their Whir Prison match is abysmal so they pack more artifact hate. Relic makes less sense than Leyline or RIP for those reasons.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Phoenix is "only" 17.65% of Day 2 in Calgary.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I don't know about the last one.
Modern:
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
„T3 Karn all the time!“
Looking forward to the São Paulo and Yokohama results.
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
That multiple, separate archetypes of UR decks can coexist, so long as more than one of them isn't complete trash? Sounds like a perfect time for an unban.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Than again, having a more consistent Griselbanned deck, I doubt many players want that
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Nice top 8. This should take the pressure off from faithless looting.. even if just a little.
Hopefully, more top 8's similar to this one would come.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
As I am a combo player, I am looking forward to brewing with the new self mill jace with the lab maniac ability.
The Ral storm walker looks cool too.