Phoenix is putting up competitive numbers Twin could only dream of.
Toxic twin players derailing the thread with their agenda.
Modern is the best it's ever been.
edit: /s if that wasn't obvious.
I was referring to something exremely specific. In addition to the ridiculous Day 2 numbers that Twin never saw, the "competitive diversity" claim is pretty strong. If Twin is the bar, Phoenix is breaking it. If Phoenix isn't breaking it, then Twin needs to come back. Plain and simple.
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (2, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 2* (Don't know Bilbao results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
Kci instead of mox opal, BBE instead of DRS, summer bloom instead of primeval titan.
This is the idea of tailoring bans to a specific deck with out affecting the rest of the format as much as possible.
The only ban IMO that flies in the face of this idea is probe because there were a few decks using it to verify they could go for the kill that turn. If we look at the original modern ban list we find some other cards that are staying banned because so many decks would use them, GSZ and a few others. The cantrips like ponder were banned specifically to make combos less consistent, but i think they kinda fit into this too. There is a president for hitting something like faithless looting but I expect that to be WOTC's next move.
How about just banning the phoenix instead of looting?
Just like how they did with banning KCI instead of the opal.
We're still left with Dredge showing 3 top 8s in this GP vaulting over a deck with more than 4 times it's representation in a field that knows it needs to fight graveyard strategies. Is that acceptable?
I'm at the point where I can't even justify keeping looting in the format, it fuels so many absurd decks that keeping a few other decks around that don't do much isn't worth the decks it enables
Phoenix is putting up competitive numbers Twin could only dream of.
Toxic twin players derailing the thread with their agenda.
Modern is the best it's ever been.
edit: /s if that wasn't obvious.
I was referring to something exremely specific. In addition to the ridiculous Day 2 numbers that Twin never saw, the "competitive diversity" claim is pretty strong. If Twin is the bar, Phoenix is breaking it. If Phoenix isn't breaking it, then Twin needs to come back. Plain and simple.
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (2, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 2* (Don't know Bilbao results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
Yup, agreed completely. Yet there are people telling the twin guys they're obsessed and have an agenda. Every reason cited for a twin ban can be applied wholesale for UR phoenix.
Does UR Phoenix put up the numbers? Resounding yes for both top 8 performance and play rate.
Diversity among blue decks? Well GDS, UW, U-moon and UWR combined took 10% less than UR Phoenix this time round.
UR Phoenix being allowed to continue to exist in its current form when twin remains banned is an joke.
1 more GP like this and faithless looting 100% needs to go.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Kci instead of mox opal, BBE instead of DRS, summer bloom instead of primeval titan.
This is the idea of tailoring bans to a specific deck with out affecting the rest of the format as much as possible.
The only ban IMO that flies in the face of this idea is probe because there were a few decks using it to verify they could go for the kill that turn. If we look at the original modern ban list we find some other cards that are staying banned because so many decks would use them, GSZ and a few others. The cantrips like ponder were banned specifically to make combos less consistent, but i think they kinda fit into this too. There is a president for hitting something like faithless looting but I expect that to be WOTC's next move.
Just thinking out loud - arent GPs more frequent nowadays than in 2015? IF that is the case, then it’s not a complete 1:1 comparison, but still interesting to see.
I could be wrong on what I’m remembering though.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Same story at the other GP as well (source). Phoenix IS the deck to beat. Next events people need to figure out to hate it out, otherwise after the MC it will be banned. Sell/buy accordingly.
Also: #MTGBilbao Quarterfinal results:
-Thomas Rasmussen (UR Phoenix) defeats Gabriel Comaposada (Valakut)
-Guillaume Matignon (UR Phoenix) def. Lauge De Place (Dredge)
-Joseba Garcia (Dredge) def. Julien Potier (Shadow Zoo)
-Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) def. Jan Stadler (Dredge)
Phoenix is putting up competitive numbers Twin could only dream of.
Toxic twin players derailing the thread with their agenda.
Modern is the best it's ever been.
edit: /s if that wasn't obvious.
I was referring to something exremely specific. In addition to the ridiculous Day 2 numbers that Twin never saw, the "competitive diversity" claim is pretty strong. If Twin is the bar, Phoenix is breaking it. If Phoenix isn't breaking it, then Twin needs to come back. Plain and simple.
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (2, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 2* (Don't know Bilbao results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
Yup, agreed completely. Yet there are people telling the twin guys they're obsessed and have an agenda. Every reason cited for a twin ban can be applied wholesale for UR phoenix.
Does UR Phoenix put up the numbers? Resounding yes for both top 8 performance and play rate.
Diversity among blue decks? Well GDS, UW, U-moon and UWR combined took 10% less than UR Phoenix this time round.
UR Phoenix being allowed to continue to exist in its current form when twin remains banned is an joke.
1 more GP like this and faithless looting 100% needs to go.
EDIT: FROM CFB, DAY 2 Meta at GP Tampa
Holy Hell I didn't even know there was another event going on.... Apparently there are THREE concurrent large Modern events, and only ONE (SCG) is being broadcast? Awesome job WOTC.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Stuff like Creeping Chill and Siege rhino and Felidar guardian are mostly fine cards without some busted enabler that short circuits the variance of a deck of 60 cards.
I think wizards will always want to print fun ways to turn cards into mana or break the fundamental rules - it's a really fun design space of magic where you can "make this sacrifice to break this rule" essentially.
So I would 100% expect them to ban the engine not the fuel, as it were. They demonstrated that stance already with Krark-Clan Ironworks. Looting almost surely goes.
It's really hard to get the balance of card selection right in magic from a competitive standpoint. What is a fair price to pay for gaining consistent access to more powerful cards? The tempo and timing restrictions of tutors or cantrips are often enough to make it right to play more functional copies instead of cantrips, but often not.
You can see this play out a little in UW Control eclipsing Jund as the "control" of choice in Modern, and the dynamic of Burn vs. Phoenix as an aggro-ish deck. Phoenix and Hollow One; they figured out ways to turn their cantrips into tempo advantage with Thing + Phoenix (or Hollow one + Bloodghast).
So now they're more efficient aggro decks than Burn because they have better threats and they are more efficient. It's just such a crazy fine balancing act.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
2010 World Champion Guillaume Matignon defeats Thomas Rasmussen in an Izzet Phoenix mirror
Now six-time GP Top 8 competitor Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) triumphs over Joseba Garcia (Dredge).
EDIT: Matignon on UR Phoenix takes down Bilbao
So this gets updated:
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (?, 2*, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 3* (Don't know Tampa results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
Either Phoenix gets banned, Twin gets unbanned, or WOTC are just massive hypocrites who sold us on a bulls**t banning three years ago.
Maybe there is some really good PW for 2-3 mana in WAR that is good against looting decks. Something like a Kaya on steroids.
Otherwise I don't understand the decision for looting to remain in the format. The format is miserable right now and Modern Horizons is some months away.
Stuff like Creeping Chill and Siege rhino and Felidar guardian are mostly fine cards without some busted enabler that short circuits the variance of a deck of 60 cards.
I think wizards will always want to print fun ways to turn cards into mana or break the fundamental rules - it's a really fun design space of magic where you can "make this sacrifice to break this rule" essentially.
So I would 100% expect them to ban the engine not the fuel, as it were. They demonstrated that stance already with Krark-Clan Ironworks. Looting almost surely goes.
It's really hard to get the balance of card selection right in magic from a competitive standpoint. What is a fair price to pay for gaining consistent access to more powerful cards? The tempo and timing restrictions of tutors or cantrips are often enough to make it right to play more functional copies instead of cantrips, but often not.
You can see this play out a little in UW Control eclipsing Jund as the "control" of choice in Modern, and the dynamic of Burn vs. Phoenix as an aggro-ish deck. Phoenix and Hollow One; they figured out ways to turn their cantrips into tempo advantage with Thing + Phoenix (or Hollow one + Bloodghast).
So now they're more efficient aggro decks than Burn because they have better threats and they are more efficient. It's just such a crazy fine balancing act.
I don't think they're banning anything until Horizons settles and past that point it might not even be a topic anymore.
2010 World Champion Guillaume Matignon defeats Thomas Rasmussen in an Izzet Phoenix mirror
Now six-time GP Top 8 competitor Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) triumphs over Joseba Garcia (Dredge).
EDIT: Matignon on UR Phoenix takes down Bilbao
So this gets updated:
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (?, 2*, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 3* (Don't know Tampa results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
Either Phoenix gets banned, Twin gets unbanned, or WOTC are just massive hypocrites who sold us on a bulls**t banning three years ago.
I see the numbers you've posted and certainly can't dispute them (I'm assuming they're correct without doing the fact-checking myself). The one thing I'd say is that Twin is a combo whereas Phoenix relies on a limited number of attackers. WotC's ban of Twin came with a nod toward allowing more "fair" (read: not combo) U/R decks in the format to thrive. They may think it's easier to interact with Phoenix than it was with Twin and therefore be fine with the numbers.
I'm not saying I agree with that argument, but I'm just presenting it as a possible train of thought which would distinguish the decks and potentially provide a gap in the tolerance for those numbers.
Yeesh. Think I'll avoid the Modern Reddits and this Thread for a while. The negativity and tantrums are absurd right now. Not a single good discussion on anything productive in the past week now.
Yeesh. Think I'll avoid the Modern Reddits and this Thread for a while. The negativity and tantrums are absurd right now. Not a single good discussion on anything productive in the past week now.
Could it be because Modern is awful, and anyone claiming the format is healthy is blindly looking at how a bunch of Tier 2 and 3 decks smash into each other and actively avoiding the massive elephant in the room of Dredge and Phoenix UTTERLY DOMINATING EVERYTHING, despite graveyard hate being at such an all time high that, in addition to several sideboard slots, multiple decks are maindecking GY hate?
Well, Izzet phoenix is overperforming. Just too good. UR spells was nothing without phoenix 8 months ago. Dredge was a shady mediocre T2.5 deck without Creeping Chill. Looting was not a problem card. The problem are the busted cards they print sometimes, that make unfair decks too damn powerfull. But oh well, let's go with the Looting ban and hit like 5 other archetipes of decks. If we follow the logic of the KCI ban, what has to go is the Chill and the Phoenix. The banning paranoia and the insuficient answears in the format are tiresome in Modern, I hope for better cards in Modern Horizons instead of again banning cards. I slightly prefer Legacy because of stability over modern.
I do not agree with everything I'm reading on here right now. I'm not sold on a looting ban yet. Something WILL be done about these numbers soon but with several new variables, ike MH possible new powerful hate cards and 36 new planeswalkers coming soon, I'm not ready to say that banning is immenant because there are other otions. And there are other cards they could ban to hurt Phoenix which is really the problem, dredge is just a side show, it's real good but is clearly not what Phoenix is.
Again, these numbers are not comparable with WOTC standard for the format and something can, should and will be done about it, but let's be careful to to not over simplify this to just one problem or solution.
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I was referring to something exremely specific. In addition to the ridiculous Day 2 numbers that Twin never saw, the "competitive diversity" claim is pretty strong. If Twin is the bar, Phoenix is breaking it. If Phoenix isn't breaking it, then Twin needs to come back. Plain and simple.
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (2, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 2* (Don't know Bilbao results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This is the idea of tailoring bans to a specific deck with out affecting the rest of the format as much as possible.
The only ban IMO that flies in the face of this idea is probe because there were a few decks using it to verify they could go for the kill that turn. If we look at the original modern ban list we find some other cards that are staying banned because so many decks would use them, GSZ and a few others. The cantrips like ponder were banned specifically to make combos less consistent, but i think they kinda fit into this too. There is a president for hitting something like faithless looting but I expect that to be WOTC's next move.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Yup, agreed completely. Yet there are people telling the twin guys they're obsessed and have an agenda. Every reason cited for a twin ban can be applied wholesale for UR phoenix.
Does UR Phoenix put up the numbers? Resounding yes for both top 8 performance and play rate.
Diversity among blue decks? Well GDS, UW, U-moon and UWR combined took 10% less than UR Phoenix this time round.
UR Phoenix being allowed to continue to exist in its current form when twin remains banned is an joke.
1 more GP like this and faithless looting 100% needs to go.
EDIT: FROM CFB, DAY 2 Meta at GP Tampa
Every sideboard is full of GY hate.
Dredge and phoenix are the decks to beat and they still have 5 copys in the top8.
It incredible how resilient and concistent these deck are.
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
They printed a shape-shifting 2-drop Eldrazi, and suddenly Eye of Ugin was the problem.
They printed Prized Amalgam, Insolent Neonate, and Cathartic Reunion, and suddenly Golgari Grave-Troll was the problem.
They printed Become Immense, and suddenly Gitaxian Probe was the problem.
They printed Creeping Chill and Arclight Phoenix, and suddenly Faithless Looting is the problem.
Maybe they should stop printing things that get busted free or extremely cheap effects?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I could be wrong on what I’m remembering though.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
Same story at the other GP as well (source). Phoenix IS the deck to beat. Next events people need to figure out to hate it out, otherwise after the MC it will be banned. Sell/buy accordingly.
Also:
#MTGBilbao Quarterfinal results:
-Thomas Rasmussen (UR Phoenix) defeats Gabriel Comaposada (Valakut)
-Guillaume Matignon (UR Phoenix) def. Lauge De Place (Dredge)
-Joseba Garcia (Dredge) def. Julien Potier (Shadow Zoo)
-Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) def. Jan Stadler (Dredge)
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Holy Hell I didn't even know there was another event going on.... Apparently there are THREE concurrent large Modern events, and only ONE (SCG) is being broadcast? Awesome job WOTC.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Day 2 Meta for SCG as follows:
Izzet Phoenix – 19
Dredge – 9
Humans – 8
Mono-Green Tron – 6
Azorius Control – 4
Grixis Death’s Shadow – 4
Burn – 4
Amulet Titan – 3
Affinity – 3
Golgari Midrange – 3
Whir Prison – 2
Jund Death’s Shadow – 2
Hollow+One – 2
Colorless Eldrazi – 2
Titan Shift – 2
Infect – 1
Storm – 1
Bant Spirits – 1
Mono-Red Phoenix – 1
Counters Company – 1
Ad+Nauseam – 1
Faeries – 1
Blue Moon – 1
Four-Color Death’s Shadow – 1
Four-Color Vannifar – 1
Sultai Reclamation – 1
Selesnya Taxes – 1
Stuff like Creeping Chill and Siege rhino and Felidar guardian are mostly fine cards without some busted enabler that short circuits the variance of a deck of 60 cards.
I think wizards will always want to print fun ways to turn cards into mana or break the fundamental rules - it's a really fun design space of magic where you can "make this sacrifice to break this rule" essentially.
So I would 100% expect them to ban the engine not the fuel, as it were. They demonstrated that stance already with Krark-Clan Ironworks. Looting almost surely goes.
It's really hard to get the balance of card selection right in magic from a competitive standpoint. What is a fair price to pay for gaining consistent access to more powerful cards? The tempo and timing restrictions of tutors or cantrips are often enough to make it right to play more functional copies instead of cantrips, but often not.
You can see this play out a little in UW Control eclipsing Jund as the "control" of choice in Modern, and the dynamic of Burn vs. Phoenix as an aggro-ish deck. Phoenix and Hollow One; they figured out ways to turn their cantrips into tempo advantage with Thing + Phoenix (or Hollow one + Bloodghast).
So now they're more efficient aggro decks than Burn because they have better threats and they are more efficient. It's just such a crazy fine balancing act.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
#MTGBilbao Semifinal results:
2010 World Champion Guillaume Matignon defeats Thomas Rasmussen in an Izzet Phoenix mirror
Now six-time GP Top 8 competitor Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) triumphs over Joseba Garcia (Dredge).
EDIT: Matignon on UR Phoenix takes down Bilbao
So this gets updated:
Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
Total GPs: 6
Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (?, 2*, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
Winners: 3* (Don't know Tampa results yet)
Twin in all of 2015
Total GPs: 8
Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
Either Phoenix gets banned, Twin gets unbanned, or WOTC are just massive hypocrites who sold us on a bulls**t banning three years ago.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Otherwise I don't understand the decision for looting to remain in the format. The format is miserable right now and Modern Horizons is some months away.
I don't think they're banning anything until Horizons settles and past that point it might not even be a topic anymore.
Modern Horizon seems so far away !! I can't wait hehe !
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
I'm not saying I agree with that argument, but I'm just presenting it as a possible train of thought which would distinguish the decks and potentially provide a gap in the tolerance for those numbers.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
That's huge!
Modern:
Could it be because Modern is awful, and anyone claiming the format is healthy is blindly looking at how a bunch of Tier 2 and 3 decks smash into each other and actively avoiding the massive elephant in the room of Dredge and Phoenix UTTERLY DOMINATING EVERYTHING, despite graveyard hate being at such an all time high that, in addition to several sideboard slots, multiple decks are maindecking GY hate?
Yep. Modern is super great and healthy!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Again, these numbers are not comparable with WOTC standard for the format and something can, should and will be done about it, but let's be careful to to not over simplify this to just one problem or solution.