Tee hee, Tribute Mage tutors for both halves of the Thopter-Sword combo and a load of hate rocks besides. It also tutors for Cranial Plating and Arcbound Ravager, so might Affinity want it?
Vesperlark is a 2/1 flier for 2W, resurrects a creature in your graveyard with power 1 or less when it ETB, and has Evoke 1W. Abusable?
Llanowar Tribe costs as much as 3 Llanowar Elves, taps for as much mana as 3 Llanowar Elves, and has the P/T of 3 Llanowar Elves combined. Might Nykthos Green want it?
"Mist-Clan Ninja" has the powerful combat-damage-to-player trigger of making a copy of itself but is a 3/1 and has both a mana cost and Ninjutsu cost of 2U. Guess it still isn't the Ninjutsu ninja that will see Modern play?
In the meantime, initial resting results with Throes of Chaos in Jund are that it does indeed increase card quality like mad and help against midrange and control, but it's hard to cast it twice against aggro and combo. It feeling like half a Bloodbraid Elf is kinda lame for the first shot, but you'd be surprised how often spinning the wheel with the first one is better than any of the cards in your hand given the board state. It also notably is mono-red and therefore completely laughs at Blood Moon, but it is pretty weak to graveyard hate. It nonbos with Tireless Tracker, but it's certainly funner than a lot of the flex slot cards I've tried in Jund. I suspect it's better than Hexdrinker in Jund and tries to fix several of the same match-ups.
Throes of chaos is a 1 of in the side if you want to grind, I think hilariously making this a spell everytime you draw a land in the slower matchups is hilarious. This demands a surgical or a spellbomb or RIP to get rid of in those fair matchups.
Throes of chaos is a 1 of in the side if you want to grind, I think hilariously making this a spell everytime you draw a land in the slower matchups is hilarious. This demands a surgical or a spellbomb or RIP to get rid of in those fair matchups.
I can verify it would be SO annoying as a control player to have a Jund player spinning the wheel every flipping turn.
Bridgevine wants Carrion Feeder too. It's got a relevant creature type for Gravecrawler.
T1 Looting, discard Maul Splicer/Trostani's Summoner into T2 evoke Vesperlark sounds good. It is a three card combo though, and you have to ask yourself why you're using Vesperlark and Splicer/Summoner instead of Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand. Or even why you're not making two 4/4 Rhinos instead.
Tribute Mage is the latest in the line of 'tr- mages'. Whir of Invention does a lot of what the tr- mages do but better (same cost overall, but instant, and your artifacts pay for it). One trick Tribute Mage has up its sleeve is Chief Engineer/Grand Architect into Tribute Mage into Myr Superion.
Carrion Feeder could push the old Finks combo decks. Now each piece of the combo has a 5-8 of redundancy: Melira/Vizer, Finks/Redcap, Feeder/Viscera Seer.
I also believe Eldamaris Call is being slept on. Possibly as inclusion in the above-mentioned combo deck but also in many other creature decks that might like a toolbox approach.
Throes of chaos is a 1 of in the side if you want to grind, I think hilariously making this a spell everytime you draw a land in the slower matchups is hilarious. This demands a surgical or a spellbomb or RIP to get rid of in those fair matchups.
I can verify it would be SO annoying as a control player to have a Jund player spinning the wheel every flipping turn.
I can imagine a serious control player keeping track of all the spells cascaded and placed in the bottom of the library.
Hmm, it is starting to look like Mono Blue could do cool stuff... maybe even Uw Monastery Mentor could finally be good. I actually did ok with it for a little bit recently.
As someone who loves sacrifice-based Zombie tribal decks, I'm ridiculously excited for Carrion Feeder. It and Undead Augur are huge buffs to my weird homebrews.
Hmm, it is starting to look like Mono Blue could do cool stuff... maybe even Uw Monastery Mentor could finally be good. I actually did ok with it for a little bit recently.
I've been saying that ever since Force of Negation was spoiled. I have every intention of making some UW based Mentor deck. Right now, it's just a matter if I want to make it midrangey as Esper, controlly as UW, or burn-heavy as Jeskai. I've got everything I need, just waiting on the Forces to be in my hand.
Disrupting Shoal is way better than Force of Negation if you intend to run Monastery Mentor. By the way: I already explored the idea, (UW Mentor), two years ago, and I simply decided that even a protected Mentor wasn't worth the effort. But, maybe, the fact that the metagame changed could make me change my mind. Who knows.
EDIT
That's what I was testing some weeks ago, maybe it can be useful:
The rumours were true. We indeed get white-wanting Academy Ruins for enchantments in Hall of Heliod's Generosity, and we get a Convoke Delve 8/8 for 5 generic and 2 hybrid black-green mana that we can cast from the graveyard but we can never pay actual mana for in Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis. I think Hogaak is castable too late in Dredge, but Hall of Heliod's Generosity looks abusable...
Tectonic Reformation is kinda like Trade Routes, except it's red, it demands red mana, and it has Cycling 2 instead of being able to bounce your lands. It still seems worse than Throes of Chaos in Jund to me because of the initial card disadvantage and tempo sink, the fact that it can be countered and then you get no more card quality out of it, the fact that it does nothing when discarded, and that Bloodbraid Elf can unfortunately Cascade into it, but maybe the Cycling and not caring about the graveyard can convince me otherwise.
Yeah, Echo of Eons looks breakable to me. Any good ways to discard this card in UR Storm? Does UR Phoenix play for the long game too much to want this card? Does Narset Pitch Blue want this card?
Oh yeah, I'm surprisingly not excited about the Onslaught cycling lands. They're great with Life from the Loam and likely Wrenn and Six, and I'm sure they'll do things for Cycling Matters cards like Astral Drift, but it seems that all the low-land decks want cantrip lands like Fiery Islet instead. Notably, Dredge does not have the deck space for them, and these don't colour fix well enough for control decks.
Disrupting Shoal is way better than Force of Negation if you intend to run Monastery Mentor. By the way: I already explored the idea, (UW Mentor), two years ago, and I simply decided that even a protected Mentor wasn't worth the effort. But, maybe, the fact that the metagame changed could make me change my mind. Who knows.
EDIT
That's what I was testing some weeks ago, maybe it can be useful:
could probably make a few cuts to that and just play UW delver. no idea if its a good deck, but i cant imagine it being much worse.
as for monastery mentor, its always seemed like one of those cards where 'its just a matter of time'. im not sure if that time is now, even with FoN. the card is just a different animal in legacy (and presumably vintage), especially with SDT to repeatedly dump mana into and make a massive boardstate. FoN is a really big question mark for me atm, so its one of those things where ill (and i expect the majority of the community) will have to play with for a while to make an informed opinion on it.
on another note, ive been eyeballing on thin ice for use as additional removal in UW while just swapping in snow basics. im kinda torn because if its good, yeah thatd be cool, but at the same time...i really like being able to customize what basic lands i play lol.
Yeah, Echo of Eons looks breakable to me. Any good ways to discard this card in UR Storm? Does UR Phoenix play for the long game too much to want this card? Does Narset Pitch Blue want this card?
Oh yeah, I'm surprisingly not excited about the Onslaught cycling lands. They're great with Life from the Loam and likely Wrenn and Six, and I'm sure they'll do things for Cycling Matters cards like Astral Drift, but it seems that all the low-land decks want cantrip lands like Fiery Islet instead. Notably, Dredge does not have the deck space for them, and these don't colour fix well enough for control decks.
id think that narset pitch deck would want the new timetwister for sure.
as for the ONS cycle lands, i dont think they will show up anywhere at the onset. it might take months, or maybe even years. however i like that wizards just got them into the format, even if its to facilitate something down the line.
Tons of cards in this set are going to Top 8 GP/PT's over the next year and we STILL have cards left to go...
It's not the fact that there aren't powerful cards; there are some that will significantly impact the format. For me, it's that this was a chance to get some really interesting old reprints, but instead we got many cards, themes, and cycles more squarely aimed at Commander instead.
Now don't get me wrong; I love seeing Carrion Feeder, Goblin Matron, and the cycling lands again. Kudos to Wizards for these! For a set that commands a premium price, though, it just feels like we missed out on some more cards like Vindicate and Containment Priest for...bear lords? Or more of the callbacks done in ways to prop up more fair decks instead, like a Rishadan Port variant that couldn't target basics, or a better Torpor Orb that could stuff land or artifact triggers as well. Heck, just call it Time Spiral 2, or Magic Anthology, and lose the premium pricing. It feels like the Modern considerations are secondary here based on the overall contents, but that the push to drop supplemental cards directly into the format is the entire reason we're paying a premium. I love a lot of these cards, both new and old, but it doesn't feel very Modern-centric to me, if that makes sense.
i dunno, stepping back and looking at the spoilers which are a good portion of the way done, i think its just perception making the commander cards stick out. edh encompasses a huge swath of players with a wide spectrum of competitiveness. unless its cedh, which is a small minority, its not as if there is a 'meta' or anything. cards are accepted as better or worse, but its not as strict as modern card evaluation. so splashy mythics of major characters, meme bear queens, enemy talismans, 5color super-tribal commander, etc; all that stuff is accepted with open arms.
for modern we are much more critical of the cards. the two things that stand out to me isnt that there werent enough things aimed at the modern format. rather its that we are getting a bunch of new designs which are largely unknowns as shown by countless examples of the community's inability to evaluate cards. this is in place of what many, myself included, expected would be the multitude of old reprints discussed and analyzed over the last few months that i believe seemed easy inclusions and within the strike zone of not disturbing the format too much, but still impactful. then to top things off the product has a 'premium' price tag, so any disappointments or unrealized expectations are magnified.
for anyone thinking horizons would just flip the format on its head with a bunch of high powered legacy cards...well that is on them; because people have been explaining why that is irrational since the day horizons was announced.
Private Mod Note
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
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Vesperlark is a 2/1 flier for 2W, resurrects a creature in your graveyard with power 1 or less when it ETB, and has Evoke 1W. Abusable?
Llanowar Tribe costs as much as 3 Llanowar Elves, taps for as much mana as 3 Llanowar Elves, and has the P/T of 3 Llanowar Elves combined. Might Nykthos Green want it?
"Mist-Clan Ninja" has the powerful combat-damage-to-player trigger of making a copy of itself but is a 3/1 and has both a mana cost and Ninjutsu cost of 2U. Guess it still isn't the Ninjutsu ninja that will see Modern play?
In the meantime, initial resting results with Throes of Chaos in Jund are that it does indeed increase card quality like mad and help against midrange and control, but it's hard to cast it twice against aggro and combo. It feeling like half a Bloodbraid Elf is kinda lame for the first shot, but you'd be surprised how often spinning the wheel with the first one is better than any of the cards in your hand given the board state. It also notably is mono-red and therefore completely laughs at Blood Moon, but it is pretty weak to graveyard hate. It nonbos with Tireless Tracker, but it's certainly funner than a lot of the flex slot cards I've tried in Jund. I suspect it's better than Hexdrinker in Jund and tries to fix several of the same match-ups.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
There has to be a good combo with Faithless Looting into Vesperlark.
wotc.. why you know how to make me to spend cash on singles..
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Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
T1 Looting, discard Maul Splicer/Trostani's Summoner into T2 evoke Vesperlark sounds good. It is a three card combo though, and you have to ask yourself why you're using Vesperlark and Splicer/Summoner instead of Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand. Or even why you're not making two 4/4 Rhinos instead.
Tribute Mage is the latest in the line of 'tr- mages'. Whir of Invention does a lot of what the tr- mages do but better (same cost overall, but instant, and your artifacts pay for it). One trick Tribute Mage has up its sleeve is Chief Engineer/Grand Architect into Tribute Mage into Myr Superion.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I also believe Eldamaris Call is being slept on. Possibly as inclusion in the above-mentioned combo deck but also in many other creature decks that might like a toolbox approach.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
I can imagine a serious control player keeping track of all the spells cascaded and placed in the bottom of the library.
What would these loam decks look like with the cycle lands and Wrenn? It makes me wonder as a Jund player.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
EDIT
That's what I was testing some weeks ago, maybe it can be useful:
3x Celestial Colonnade
2x Blast Zone
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
6x Island
1x Plains
2x Hallowed Fountain
Creatures (8)
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Monastery Mentor
4x Opt
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
4x Path to Exile
4x Spell Snare
4x Remand
4x Disrupting Shoal
4x Cryptic Command
3x Vendilion Clique
3x Spell Pierce
3x Rest in Peace
2x Oust
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Detention Sphere
Tectonic Reformation is kinda like Trade Routes, except it's red, it demands red mana, and it has Cycling 2 instead of being able to bounce your lands. It still seems worse than Throes of Chaos in Jund to me because of the initial card disadvantage and tempo sink, the fact that it can be countered and then you get no more card quality out of it, the fact that it does nothing when discarded, and that Bloodbraid Elf can unfortunately Cascade into it, but maybe the Cycling and not caring about the graveyard can convince me otherwise.
Yeah, Echo of Eons looks breakable to me. Any good ways to discard this card in UR Storm? Does UR Phoenix play for the long game too much to want this card? Does Narset Pitch Blue want this card?
Oh yeah, I'm surprisingly not excited about the Onslaught cycling lands. They're great with Life from the Loam and likely Wrenn and Six, and I'm sure they'll do things for Cycling Matters cards like Astral Drift, but it seems that all the low-land decks want cantrip lands like Fiery Islet instead. Notably, Dredge does not have the deck space for them, and these don't colour fix well enough for control decks.
could probably make a few cuts to that and just play UW delver. no idea if its a good deck, but i cant imagine it being much worse.
as for monastery mentor, its always seemed like one of those cards where 'its just a matter of time'. im not sure if that time is now, even with FoN. the card is just a different animal in legacy (and presumably vintage), especially with SDT to repeatedly dump mana into and make a massive boardstate. FoN is a really big question mark for me atm, so its one of those things where ill (and i expect the majority of the community) will have to play with for a while to make an informed opinion on it.
on another note, ive been eyeballing on thin ice for use as additional removal in UW while just swapping in snow basics. im kinda torn because if its good, yeah thatd be cool, but at the same time...i really like being able to customize what basic lands i play lol.
id think that narset pitch deck would want the new timetwister for sure.
as for the ONS cycle lands, i dont think they will show up anywhere at the onset. it might take months, or maybe even years. however i like that wizards just got them into the format, even if its to facilitate something down the line.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Now don't get me wrong; I love seeing Carrion Feeder, Goblin Matron, and the cycling lands again. Kudos to Wizards for these! For a set that commands a premium price, though, it just feels like we missed out on some more cards like Vindicate and Containment Priest for...bear lords? Or more of the callbacks done in ways to prop up more fair decks instead, like a Rishadan Port variant that couldn't target basics, or a better Torpor Orb that could stuff land or artifact triggers as well. Heck, just call it Time Spiral 2, or Magic Anthology, and lose the premium pricing. It feels like the Modern considerations are secondary here based on the overall contents, but that the push to drop supplemental cards directly into the format is the entire reason we're paying a premium. I love a lot of these cards, both new and old, but it doesn't feel very Modern-centric to me, if that makes sense.
Spirits
for modern we are much more critical of the cards. the two things that stand out to me isnt that there werent enough things aimed at the modern format. rather its that we are getting a bunch of new designs which are largely unknowns as shown by countless examples of the community's inability to evaluate cards. this is in place of what many, myself included, expected would be the multitude of old reprints discussed and analyzed over the last few months that i believe seemed easy inclusions and within the strike zone of not disturbing the format too much, but still impactful. then to top things off the product has a 'premium' price tag, so any disappointments or unrealized expectations are magnified.
for anyone thinking horizons would just flip the format on its head with a bunch of high powered legacy cards...well that is on them; because people have been explaining why that is irrational since the day horizons was announced.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)