So, UR Phoenix wins the latest Modern RPTQ, playing 4 Ravenous Trapin the sideboard. 2nd and 3rd place belong to Dredge, either way
Every single 8-1 deck is a linear aggro/combo deck. Most of the 7-2 decks are linear aggro/combo or disruptive aggro. And a single UW sneaks in t 6-3.
As I said in the Reddit thread on this same topic, this isn't worth commenting on unless one is also commenting on the Challenge from last week which had a predominantly interactive and non-linear T8. Or the GP Portland results which were similarly non-linear and interactive. I noticed that last week, you did make a comment on the awful SCG Invitational matchups, but were largely silent about the other more favorable results. This is the kind of negative posting I have called out in the past and will continue to call out, whether you are engaging in it or others are.
Even the winner of the Grand Prix Portland lost to our local guy on Affinity on Day 1 (local guy was 8-0). (I was hoping I had an opportunity to post that, lol.)
Terrible pics, but here it is...Storm player running Affinity playing against GDS on Day 1.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Is it possible to do well with an interactive, blue deck? Sure.
Is it going to give you the best opportunity for success in Modern? No. Not unless the stars align for you.
Proactive, fast decks, or proactive, disruptive decks are where you want to be if you care about winning.
Unless you are aware of some evidence I am not aware of, there just isn't enough data to make that claim. I can look at the data and tell you that KCI probably has the highest MWP. I've also been saying for a while that it's probably the best deck in Modern, so if you're claiming that we should all just play KCI instead of other decks, that's not a terrible position. But if you're claiming that proactive decks as a whole are better than individual reactive decks, I'm not sure you have much to stand on there. In the large N 2018 dataset, Humans, UW Control, and Gx Tron had about the same MWP (~51%). There are also plenty of recent T8s at all event sizes that attest to interactive decks being viable. I agree that the format might shift away from a certain deck being well-positioned for a period of time, e.g. UW Control not being top-tier now, or Gx Tron not being top-tier in summer/fall of this year. But that's just what happens in non-rotating formats without clearly dominant, best decks. I do agree that Modern might have some issues, especially the GY issue presented by Dredge, but otherwise many of the complaints I see here and on Reddit overblow those issues.
Not really a surprise I think we all know for the most part Answers have lagged behind Threats. Fatal Push and Trophy are nice but to keep aggro decks down you cannot afford to trade 1 for 1. You need cheap board wipes that exile, return to deck or at least hands but right now all you got is Terminus. Trap is a nice tech though.
Phoenix is the real deal. I think I need to start going to the thread so I at least know how to play against it. (well, I guess there's always playing around it or through it, lol)
I'm making a mess of the first page, let me know if there's anything obvious you want to know.
Is it possible to do well with an interactive, blue deck? Sure.
Is it going to give you the best opportunity for success in Modern? No. Not unless the stars align for you.
Proactive, fast decks, or proactive, disruptive decks are where you want to be if you care about winning.
Unless you are aware of some evidence I am not aware of, there just isn't enough data to make that claim. I can look at the data and tell you that KCI probably has the highest MWP. I've also been saying for a while that it's probably the best deck in Modern, so if you're claiming that we should all just play KCI instead of other decks, that's not a terrible position. But if you're claiming that proactive decks as a whole are better than individual reactive decks, I'm not sure you have much to stand on there. In the large N 2018 dataset, Humans, UW Control, and Gx Tron had about the same MWP (~51%). There are also plenty of recent T8s at all event sizes that attest to interactive decks being viable. I agree that the format might shift away from a certain deck being well-positioned for a period of time, e.g. UW Control not being top-tier now, or Gx Tron not being top-tier in summer/fall of this year. But that's just what happens in non-rotating formats without clearly dominant, best decks. I do agree that Modern might have some issues, especially the GY issue presented by Dredge, but otherwise many of the complaints I see here and on Reddit overblow those issues.
Where do you see me making a complaint? I'm just calling it as I see it from actually playing the decks in question. Once I stopped caring about it needing to play a reactive blue deck (because they are bad), things have been great!
I think GDS far better than people think, but it is harder to play than Spirits and Humans and Tron, so..it is what it is.
Hows the GDS vs Tron btw?
I think it's quite favorable - I'm at about 66% over 57 matches, but I also saw a GDS grinder post basically the opposite result so take that for what you will.
Not much land disruption out of GDS, so I assume they race, and hope to Stubborn the right card. I dont think on paper it should be in GDS favour, but I'm not an expert at all on either deck.
Yea, they need the fast draws to have a shot. They can't really beat Wurmcoil and Ulamog is lights out. Thragtusk is also a huge bomb post-board that they can't usually counter.
i dunno i agree with how ben friedman described GDS in one of his articles. in that GDS 'on paper' is behind in a lot of matchups, even among the top decks. however the raw power of what it is doing gives it more game across the board than people give it credit.
i mean it wouldnt take much to make the tron matchup seem alright if not outright good. a few ceremonious rejection, maybe an alpine moon and or disdainful stroke. (in addition to other common SB options like abrade)
Not much land disruption out of GDS, so I assume they race, and hope to Stubborn the right card. I dont think on paper it should be in GDS favour, but I'm not an expert at all on either deck.
You just kill them before it matters. Your life total is mostly irrelevant, so you can go all in with little risk. Obviously you need a good/fast draw, but that's something the deck is totally capable of. As I said, the only reason I'm taking a break from GDS is to jump on the Phoenix hype train. But I plan on going back and forth between these two decks until Twin is unbanned.
I think GDS far better than people think, but it is harder to play than Spirits and Humans and Tron, so..it is what it is.
Hows the GDS vs Tron btw?
Yeah, agreed with everyone else that it's a positive matchup. You do need to keep a hand that lets you put out an early threat, because you'll be racing, but you have the tools to play an effective tempo game against them. You can strip their payoffs from their hand with Thoughtseize, and Denial their O Stones or planeswalkers. Ceremonious Rejection is amazing in that matchup.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I think GDS far better than people think, but it is harder to play than Spirits and Humans and Tron, so..it is what it is.
Hows the GDS vs Tron btw?
Yeah, agreed with everyone else that it's a positive matchup. You do need to keep a hand that lets you put out an early threat, because you'll be racing, but you have the tools to play an effective tempo game against them. You can strip their payoffs from their hand with Thoughtseize, and Denial their O Stones or planeswalkers. Ceremonious Rejection is amazing in that matchup.
I think they were saying that it's favorable for Tron. I personally have played the GDS side and I think it's favorable. It's better than 4 Color Shadow vs. Tron. But I've heard Tron players that wreck Death's Shadow. So in the end, I've estimated the matchup to be close to 50/50. If anything, I'd lean toward GDS since I am more biased toward that (yes, at least when referring to Tron).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Yea, they need the fast draws to have a shot. They can't really beat Wurmcoil and Ulamog is lights out. Thragtusk is also a huge bomb post-board that they can't usually counter.
Ulamog is obvious but I would be cautious about relying on wurmcoil too much. If Death's Shadow is at least a 6/6 which isn't that big of a problem Temur Battle Rage can easily blow you out if you have the lifegain in mind.
A few days ago I played against a Tron player with GDS and I attacked with a 11/11 Death's Shadow and a Gurmag Angler into his Wurmcoil Engine while he was at 19. He blocked the shadow so I played Temur Battle Rage on it and so he gained no life, took 15 from that and 5 from the angler. That was game.
If he would have blocked the angler instead he would have survived no matter what my play was. If I would have still battle raged the shadow he would have taken 22 but thanks to lifelink he would have had 25 life so he would be at 3. If I would have battle raged the angler the creatures would have just traded and he would still be at 10 because I would have only dealt 15 damage.
Something to keep in mind. Im honestly not that good at combat math which is why Im more of a Control player but even if you are playing against Death Shadow you really should do the math.
Yep, I initially made a mistake against GDS when I was running Knightfall. I ended up losing to Tron later on, so I missed the top 8 and this early mistake stuck in my mind. I think it was Knight of the Reliquary with Indestructible vs. 2 Death's Shadow, one with Temur Battle Rage. I quickly learned after this to think out each attack that seems Temur Battle Rage motivated.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm also impressed that living end made an appearance near the top of the list. I like that deck a lot but have been unwilling to buy into it due to the prevalence of graveyard hate. Also a lot of grixis shadow lists popping up there. It is interesting that shadow decks in a year and a half or so went from possible ban to a good police deck.
Grixis Shadow was always a good police deck, Modern players just lose their minds whenever any new deck starts doing well, because for a number of years that did usually signify a future ban. Straight Jund Shadow is also a powerful option, though considerably less played at the moment.
RE the Grixis Shadow vs Tron matchup, because Shadow doesn't typically interact with its opponent's lands, your plan is to kill your opponent before they draw more threats than you have answers. Grixis typically loses when Tron stops them from establishing a clock in turns 1-3, which is typically done through a combination of Relic of Progenitus, O-Stone, and good old fashioned pressure. I've typically beaten opponents that are just trying to ignore me and do the Tron thing, but have struggled with more savvy Tron opponents that just try to drag the game out as long as possible. As it stands I think the matchup is relatively even, but Grixis can always adopt a couple Alpine Moon to swing the matchup more in its favor.
Yep, I initially made a mistake against GDS when I was running Knightfall. I ended up losing to Tron later on, so I missed the top 8 and this early mistake stuck in my mind. I think it was Knight of the Reliquary with Indestructible vs. 2 Death's Shadow, one with Temur Battle Rage. I quickly learned after this to think out each attack that seems Temur Battle Rage motivated.
as someone who's played a lot of GDS/4C traverse shadow, TBR can make you wanna make some WEIRD attacks. I was talking to my buddy the other day on how sometimes you can just get "free" wins through TBR, usually those attacks where you can get the win are pretty predictable. I had a buddy who was playing humans against GDS in a top 4 of a PPTQ who lost because he just neglected to play around TBR and lost because of it
As I said in the Reddit thread on this same topic, this isn't worth commenting on unless one is also commenting on the Challenge from last week which had a predominantly interactive and non-linear T8. Or the GP Portland results which were similarly non-linear and interactive. I noticed that last week, you did make a comment on the awful SCG Invitational matchups, but were largely silent about the other more favorable results. This is the kind of negative posting I have called out in the past and will continue to call out, whether you are engaging in it or others are.
Is it going to give you the best opportunity for success in Modern? No. Not unless the stars align for you.
Proactive, fast decks, or proactive, disruptive decks are where you want to be if you care about winning.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Terrible pics, but here it is...Storm player running Affinity playing against GDS on Day 1.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Unless you are aware of some evidence I am not aware of, there just isn't enough data to make that claim. I can look at the data and tell you that KCI probably has the highest MWP. I've also been saying for a while that it's probably the best deck in Modern, so if you're claiming that we should all just play KCI instead of other decks, that's not a terrible position. But if you're claiming that proactive decks as a whole are better than individual reactive decks, I'm not sure you have much to stand on there. In the large N 2018 dataset, Humans, UW Control, and Gx Tron had about the same MWP (~51%). There are also plenty of recent T8s at all event sizes that attest to interactive decks being viable. I agree that the format might shift away from a certain deck being well-positioned for a period of time, e.g. UW Control not being top-tier now, or Gx Tron not being top-tier in summer/fall of this year. But that's just what happens in non-rotating formats without clearly dominant, best decks. I do agree that Modern might have some issues, especially the GY issue presented by Dredge, but otherwise many of the complaints I see here and on Reddit overblow those issues.
I'm making a mess of the first page, let me know if there's anything obvious you want to know.
Spirits
Where do you see me making a complaint? I'm just calling it as I see it from actually playing the decks in question. Once I stopped caring about it needing to play a reactive blue deck (because they are bad), things have been great!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
That being said, Phoenix deck has legs. I'm jamming it on mtgo but probably wouldn't take it to an FNM just yet.
Hows the GDS vs Tron btw?
Spirits
Spirits
i mean it wouldnt take much to make the tron matchup seem alright if not outright good. a few ceremonious rejection, maybe an alpine moon and or disdainful stroke. (in addition to other common SB options like abrade)
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I think they were saying that it's favorable for Tron. I personally have played the GDS side and I think it's favorable. It's better than 4 Color Shadow vs. Tron. But I've heard Tron players that wreck Death's Shadow. So in the end, I've estimated the matchup to be close to 50/50. If anything, I'd lean toward GDS since I am more biased toward that (yes, at least when referring to Tron).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Ulamog is obvious but I would be cautious about relying on wurmcoil too much. If Death's Shadow is at least a 6/6 which isn't that big of a problem Temur Battle Rage can easily blow you out if you have the lifegain in mind.
A few days ago I played against a Tron player with GDS and I attacked with a 11/11 Death's Shadow and a Gurmag Angler into his Wurmcoil Engine while he was at 19. He blocked the shadow so I played Temur Battle Rage on it and so he gained no life, took 15 from that and 5 from the angler. That was game.
If he would have blocked the angler instead he would have survived no matter what my play was. If I would have still battle raged the shadow he would have taken 22 but thanks to lifelink he would have had 25 life so he would be at 3. If I would have battle raged the angler the creatures would have just traded and he would still be at 10 because I would have only dealt 15 damage.
Something to keep in mind. Im honestly not that good at combat math which is why Im more of a Control player but even if you are playing against Death Shadow you really should do the math.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The power of faithless looting decks.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
RE the Grixis Shadow vs Tron matchup, because Shadow doesn't typically interact with its opponent's lands, your plan is to kill your opponent before they draw more threats than you have answers. Grixis typically loses when Tron stops them from establishing a clock in turns 1-3, which is typically done through a combination of Relic of Progenitus, O-Stone, and good old fashioned pressure. I've typically beaten opponents that are just trying to ignore me and do the Tron thing, but have struggled with more savvy Tron opponents that just try to drag the game out as long as possible. As it stands I think the matchup is relatively even, but Grixis can always adopt a couple Alpine Moon to swing the matchup more in its favor.
as someone who's played a lot of GDS/4C traverse shadow, TBR can make you wanna make some WEIRD attacks. I was talking to my buddy the other day on how sometimes you can just get "free" wins through TBR, usually those attacks where you can get the win are pretty predictable. I had a buddy who was playing humans against GDS in a top 4 of a PPTQ who lost because he just neglected to play around TBR and lost because of it
Spirits
I'm not sure how plausible it is, but this card has my UW Taxes-Sense tingling.....
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past