I agree with his unbannings, but I disagree that Splinter Twin promoted uninteractive gameplay like he claims.
Passing your turn and bluffing removal is absolutely an example of interactive gameplay.
Compare that to playing against tron. They're going to jam that turn 3 Karn no matter what, and if it gets countered they don't really get punished for it as they still have 7+ mana next turn to play their next threat.
With Twin, on the other hand, if they try and go for the combo and you do have removal they just lost two cards to your one and were punished. That is why Twin produced good game play because the Twin player was actually set back quite a bit when their combo was disrupted.
Bingo. I can't tell you how many games I lost early on trying to jam the combo as soon as I could, only to get blown out, waste all my mana, and usually lose due to the massive negative tempo swing. Once I realized that I had to play around their open mana just as much as they had to play around my combo, I had a lot of great back and forth games where I felt both our decisions and actions mattered greatly in the outcome of the game. This nuance and respect for the opponent is basically completely absent in today's Modern, where "I vomit my hand, now deal with it or lose" is the best strategy.
There was a Modern Nexus article a few months ago testing Preordain and it only made the decks slightly better. There's a huge difference in Lgeacy where the quality of cards become better, which makes cantrips better in turn. Also Brainstorm is broken.
Which decks would benefit from ponder and Preordain? Storm obviously, but what else? To me, mostly fair decks would
Yes it would be fair decks like UW/x Control, Delver decks, Death Shadow decks and other decks that might not be played as much now but would benefit and rise up with added consistency. Something like RUG Scapeshift for example which was Tier 1 when Dig Through Time was still legal though to be fair that is not a fair comparison.
You have to see though that for Wizards the problem isn't as much the type of decks that would profit from it but more that they all would be blue decks.
We can think about it what we want but Wizards prides themselves on the diversity of Modern and in Standard they are currently being applauded for that too.
A quick look at the most played cards in Standard and Modern confirms that every single color seems to be contribute something.
That picture changes dramatically when we then look at Pauper, Legacy, Vintage or 1v1 Commander.
It's not hard to see that this is ultimately what Wizards is afraid of since everything that has threatened diversity has been banned in both Standard and in Modern. Opt is actually the number 2 card in Standard right now and is also played in Modern and that card is far away from the powerlevel of Ponder and Preordain so it's not hard to see what the problem is. They both would become some of the most played cards in Modern and that is probably not something that Wizards wants even if just out of ideological reasons.
I dont think we can go back on MTGGoldfish. It was when someone was complaining that Modern is nothing but 1 mana spells, and the top 5 were 1 of each colour.
These lists also don't necessarily reflect actual percentages by any means, but represent variety of different archetypes and decks using these cards. The way data is reported there's no way to know the real distribution, just what different decks are running. So a larger variety of decks are running most of the top cards, and there aren't enough different deck to put up enough data to make it look like stirrings is as prevalent as it actually is. Nobody has that data except Wizards.
I have the unpopular opinion that no unban would solve anything. On the current ban list I see mostly threats. It is fighting fire with fire. According to Jaya Ballard you should fight everything with fire, but I am not Jaya.
One could make an argument of DRS being an interactive card, but we all know what that does to the format. SFM may probably be safe, but I guess it would fall into the AV, BBE, Bitterblossom, JtMS, SotM category. Did those cards delinearize Modern? Not so much. Then there is is Twin. Well, that is again a card to fight fire with fire. People say it would reward playing interactive decks, but in reality it doesn't (see Jund MU). At least, having a 5% or so advantage I don't really call that an incentive to go interactive. Then, also the original ban reason (Diversity) still remains unaddressed. Then there are the blue cantrips, but of those it is also all but certain they slow down Modern. They can go both ways: fit in an interactive deck or in a linear combo deck.
There is no interactive card such as FoW on the ban list, so I think the current cards on the ban list are TOYS and not cards that solve anything. I prefer to read "I want card X unbanned, because I want to brew a new deck with it" rather than that card X is going to solve Modern's problems.
yeah im mostly with you on this, and i believe wizards is too. twin might help some assuming it would be a top tier deck since it could introduce new cycling patterns that give the reactive decks more time in the limelight. really though what is going on is more systemic like you say.
the card pool expands, more effects/interactions are input into the format until a stratification based on the powerful enablers happens. its why you see cards not aging as well as some might have thought. as time goes on there are less reasons to build around cards like goyf and cryptic command. its about synergy or the means to lock out entire avenues of play in one fell swoop, and the cards arent necessarily limited to archetype.
unfortunately getting to the setting with so many cards shines light onto some flaws in the color pie. blue's section is just better suited to finding your 'stuff' and stopping their 'stuff' because generic selection and countermagic doesnt care about text boxes. also counterspells, a unique and powerful facet of interaction, are pretty much exclusive to the color. legacy showcases this in action quite nicely. modern is at the other end of the spectrum where blue was neutered from the start.
but yeah, musings aside, better answers and ways to find them would be great. i think wizards is on the right track with some of the cards theyve printed this year, they just need to push it more. hell give white a decent enchantment tutor
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
ive pretty much been saying the same thing about the context of decks that might play SFM. the difference for me is i want the card unbanned because it wouldnt break anything, but i have hopes for it to be a force of change in the format. not huge mind you, just decks that i wouldnt mind seeing more of getting an upgrade. its asking decks to answer a simple question (can you kill it), and is a solid roleplayer across the spectrum of value, clock, and defense. expecting decks to fold to it outright would be nonsense.
all in all im still in agreement with the opinion that its the lowest risk unban option, will almost assuredly happen someday given modern doesnt die out, and will likely come at a time when wizards can capitalize on it because why not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
ive pretty much been saying the same thing about the context of decks that might play SFM. the difference for me is i want the card unbanned because it wouldnt break anything, but i have hopes for it to be a force of change in the format. not huge mind you, just decks that i wouldnt mind seeing more of getting an upgrade. its asking decks to answer a simple question (can you kill it), and is a solid roleplayer across the spectrum of value, clock, and defense. expecting decks to fold to it outright would be nonsense.
all in all im still in agreement with the opinion that its the lowest risk unban option, will almost assuredly happen someday given modern doesnt die out, and will likely come at a time when wizards can capitalize on it because why not.
Fair enough. I still feel Preordain is the lowest risk unban, followed by Probe then Twin then SFM. But the gap after Probe is fairly large.
Yep. I saw that happen, super funny. My last game of Modern, I was able to bring back 4 on turn 3 (against the Hollow One player). I mean if thats what we are doing now OK I guess.
I'd play Legacy for sure, but I'm never going to pay for Dual Lands, so its just not happening. Standard will be good till rotation I predict, so I've got miles of play 'for free'.
Mono red Burn is a T1 deck in Legacy, so you're not totally out of options. Honestly, biting the bullet for duals was probably the best decision I've ever made when it comes to investing in cards I know I'll be able to get solid mileage out of. I'll stop there to avoid going too far off-topic.
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
I still cannot fathom your argument here though. You dont like the inevitability? You dont like the shell? I just dont understand the issue. Its power level is NOT outside the realm of Modern to answer, and you dont need to be main decking something stupid like RIP, or have 4 Leyline of the Void in the side to do it.
You just need to be able to answer a creature, that can even be pushed, or an artifact.
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
ive pretty much been saying the same thing about the context of decks that might play SFM. the difference for me is i want the card unbanned because it wouldnt break anything, but i have hopes for it to be a force of change in the format. not huge mind you, just decks that i wouldnt mind seeing more of getting an upgrade. its asking decks to answer a simple question (can you kill it), and is a solid roleplayer across the spectrum of value, clock, and defense. expecting decks to fold to it outright would be nonsense.
all in all im still in agreement with the opinion that its the lowest risk unban option, will almost assuredly happen someday given modern doesnt die out, and will likely come at a time when wizards can capitalize on it because why not.
Fair enough. I still feel Preordain is the lowest risk unban, followed by Probe then Twin then SFM. But the gap after Probe is fairly large.
Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly: you believe Git Probe is a safer unban than SFM?
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
I still cannot fathom your argument here though. You dont like the inevitability? You dont like the shell? I just dont understand the issue. Its power level is NOT outside the realm of Modern to answer, and you dont need to be main decking something stupid like RIP, or have 4 Leyline of the Void in the side to do it.
You just need to be able to answer a creature, that can even be pushed, or an artifact.
Is that bar REALLY too high?
What inevitability is there even? Cards like K-command, Knight of Autumn easily 2-for-1 a turn 3 batterskull. Now you have a bunch of *****ty 1/2s in your deck that do absolutely nothing. Stoneforge-based strategies are already bang average in Legacy and that's even with Jitte.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Posting memes, one-liners, and other such low-effort posts doesn't even try to convince people. It's just regurgitating tired tropes and repeating the exact same kind of minimum-content complaining we've heard for years on mediums like Twitch.
I posted the meme, but it was more satire than anything else. I'm still in the "leave SFM banned" camp. Everybody's arguments leading up to my post basically boiled down to the same tired drivel of "T3 BSkull is nuffink compurred to teh combos" and I decided to meme it. Not the best of decisions, but oh well. Nobody seems to understand context, nuance and consequences when discussing unbans. Or they understand it and simply choose not to engage with it. The problem with SFM has never been about the T3 Batterskull and whether that beats any decks. It's about the shell that the SFM package fits into and the inevitability the package provides. SFM and Twin both occupy that same space, so it's really no wonder that there's such a large crossover in the people discussing both.
I still cannot fathom your argument here though. You dont like the inevitability? You dont like the shell? I just dont understand the issue. Its power level is NOT outside the realm of Modern to answer, and you dont need to be main decking something stupid like RIP, or have 4 Leyline of the Void in the side to do it.
You just need to be able to answer a creature, that can even be pushed, or an artifact.
Is that bar REALLY too high?
What inevitability is there even? Cards like K-command, Knight of Autumn easily 2-for-1 a turn 3 batterskull. Now you have a bunch of *****ty 1/2s in your deck that do absolutely nothing. Stoneforge-based strategies are already bang average in Legacy and that's even with Jitte.
You are thinking about this when you are playing it at the earliest opportunity which is not what inevitability is about. It means the longer the game goes the stronger it gets and that's the case with it. You cannot kill a Batterskull with 3 mana up. The SFM/Batterskull package becomes something akin to a makeshift Aetherling or Pearl Lake Ancient just at a way cheaper cost. Or simply a more efficient Brightling.
For some reason people always think about that dreaded turn 3 Batterskull when it comes to SFM and how it would not be good enough, how it can be beat, yada yada. Yeah that's maybe true if that's the only play your are doing in the entire game but the fact is that currently decks that are built for it are able to handle the early onslaught of the aggressive decks. There is enough removal available for that. The problem is actually stabilizing, turning the corner and putting the game out of reach against these type of decks. You are typically at a low life total and while you have exhausted the resources of the opponent yours are exhausted too and that's where haste creatures, flash creatures(this includes Aether Vial), creatures that return from the graveyard, creatures that quickly grow out of control or provide additional value, burn spells, Collected Company,Creeping Chill, manlands, etc. become such a problem.
If they topdeck the right cards you can still lose despite surviving the first assault. In this context it should be more clear how SFM could change things because they are not able to deal with a late one and it will put the game out of reach for them. Because logically if they are able to deal with it that means they had two removal spells sitting in their hand the entire time doing absolutely nothing for their game plan which should mean you are already in the more advantageous position since you faced less pressure and are up on cards. Dealing with both SFM and Skull is still a 2 for 1 in your favor after all and one of them needs to be dedicated artifact removal because creature removal against Skull is only a temporary thing.
I could apply the same logic to ANY pay off card in a low-resource situation - Gideon AOZ, Jace, Lili, Teferi, BBE just to name a few. Any deck that wants to get to the late game already has those tools of inevitability. How is SFM + Skull better than those? And you really don't need to deal with both SFM and skull, you just need to deal with one, depending on the stage of the game.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I could apply the same logic to ANY pay off card in a low-resource situation - Gideon AOZ, Jace, Lili, Teferi, BBE just to name a few. Any deck that wants to get to the late game already has those tools of inevitability. How is SFM + Skull better than those? And you really don't need to deal with both SFM and skull, you just need to deal with one, depending on the stage of the game.
I guess you haven't read my admitttalbly wall of text. How do any of these cards block and gain life? Drawing cards is cool and all but it doesn't deal with Mantis Riders who come to kill you or the undying Bloodghast army.
Why do you think Baneslayer Angel, Lyra Dawnbringer, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, etc all see play?
Because the typical value generating creatures and planeswalkers are not good enough against the aggressive onslaught so many decks are capable of doing and I honestly think SFM/Skull is better than any these. If the format would be all Control and Midrange things might be different but that's not the case.
I read, I just think the premise you layed out is flawed because if you have enough time to play a Stoneforge, wait 1 turn to cheat in a batterskull and still have the luxury of time be able to bounce and replay constantly, then as a control deck, you likely already have the game locked up and any slow win-con will get you there.
Maybe you've been away from Modern but I assure you that Modern as it is right now, there is no way you have the time to play a batterskull recursion game.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
One interesting that happened in modern this year was the sudden and rapid decline of Midrange. Sure, Jund has been trying to find legs for a bit now, but we're in the same year where BBE got unbanned, Mardu Pyromancer won a GP vs what looked like, from the top 8, a field of Big Mana, and Assassin's Trophy got printed.
But within the last 3-4 months, Midrange has all but been punted from the format. Mardu seems to be dead on a competitive level, Jund and GB/x decks have been consistently underperforming as well.
And yet I dont see too much talk of this, aside from "Oh yeah just dont play Midrange in modern". The archetype was a reasonable choice 3 months ago but has not kept up with the format, and I wonder if WOTC is going to be fine with this or try to give it a leg up somehow.
You can play all sorts of decks in Modern as long as you accept that several of your matchups are more or less unwinnable without your opponent stumbling. Fast, linear, aggressive decks that attack on a narrow axis and are difficult to interact with minimize that number of unwinnable matchups by giving you game 1 and hoping your opponent doesn't draw hate game 2. Welcome to Modern.
But Twin is "warping," SFM is "too good," and let's not forget that Jace and AV were going to "make blue grindy decks take over the format."
For what it's worth, I spent my last FNM for quite a while (wife will be pushing out our baby next week) playing GDS and killing people on turns 3 and 4 all night, cutting most non-accelerant interaction to streamline my speed. Fair decks and interactive decks are just asking for frustration and failure.
Bingo. I can't tell you how many games I lost early on trying to jam the combo as soon as I could, only to get blown out, waste all my mana, and usually lose due to the massive negative tempo swing. Once I realized that I had to play around their open mana just as much as they had to play around my combo, I had a lot of great back and forth games where I felt both our decisions and actions mattered greatly in the outcome of the game. This nuance and respect for the opponent is basically completely absent in today's Modern, where "I vomit my hand, now deal with it or lose" is the best strategy.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Yes it would be fair decks like UW/x Control, Delver decks, Death Shadow decks and other decks that might not be played as much now but would benefit and rise up with added consistency. Something like RUG Scapeshift for example which was Tier 1 when Dig Through Time was still legal though to be fair that is not a fair comparison.
You have to see though that for Wizards the problem isn't as much the type of decks that would profit from it but more that they all would be blue decks.
We can think about it what we want but Wizards prides themselves on the diversity of Modern and in Standard they are currently being applauded for that too.
A quick look at the most played cards in Standard and Modern confirms that every single color seems to be contribute something.
That picture changes dramatically when we then look at Pauper, Legacy, Vintage or 1v1 Commander.
It's not hard to see that this is ultimately what Wizards is afraid of since everything that has threatened diversity has been banned in both Standard and in Modern. Opt is actually the number 2 card in Standard right now and is also played in Modern and that card is far away from the powerlevel of Ponder and Preordain so it's not hard to see what the problem is. They both would become some of the most played cards in Modern and that is probably not something that Wizards wants even if just out of ideological reasons.
That alone tells me that in the last what, 2 months, the forum has warped. RIP at 4th is comical.
Spirits
Can you give the link for that? thanks.
I tried googling, but too many things show up.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Spirits
MTG Goldfish. Image attached for today. 3 of the top 10 cards in Modern are either GY hate or ways to get rid of GY hate.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It does show some anti graveyard cards in there with RiP getting 4th place. I also notice that most of the cards in the list are 1 cmc.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
These lists also don't necessarily reflect actual percentages by any means, but represent variety of different archetypes and decks using these cards. The way data is reported there's no way to know the real distribution, just what different decks are running. So a larger variety of decks are running most of the top cards, and there aren't enough different deck to put up enough data to make it look like stirrings is as prevalent as it actually is. Nobody has that data except Wizards.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
yeah im mostly with you on this, and i believe wizards is too. twin might help some assuming it would be a top tier deck since it could introduce new cycling patterns that give the reactive decks more time in the limelight. really though what is going on is more systemic like you say.
the card pool expands, more effects/interactions are input into the format until a stratification based on the powerful enablers happens. its why you see cards not aging as well as some might have thought. as time goes on there are less reasons to build around cards like goyf and cryptic command. its about synergy or the means to lock out entire avenues of play in one fell swoop, and the cards arent necessarily limited to archetype.
unfortunately getting to the setting with so many cards shines light onto some flaws in the color pie. blue's section is just better suited to finding your 'stuff' and stopping their 'stuff' because generic selection and countermagic doesnt care about text boxes. also counterspells, a unique and powerful facet of interaction, are pretty much exclusive to the color. legacy showcases this in action quite nicely. modern is at the other end of the spectrum where blue was neutered from the start.
but yeah, musings aside, better answers and ways to find them would be great. i think wizards is on the right track with some of the cards theyve printed this year, they just need to push it more. hell give white a decent enchantment tutor
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
ive pretty much been saying the same thing about the context of decks that might play SFM. the difference for me is i want the card unbanned because it wouldnt break anything, but i have hopes for it to be a force of change in the format. not huge mind you, just decks that i wouldnt mind seeing more of getting an upgrade. its asking decks to answer a simple question (can you kill it), and is a solid roleplayer across the spectrum of value, clock, and defense. expecting decks to fold to it outright would be nonsense.
all in all im still in agreement with the opinion that its the lowest risk unban option, will almost assuredly happen someday given modern doesnt die out, and will likely come at a time when wizards can capitalize on it because why not.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Mono red Burn is a T1 deck in Legacy, so you're not totally out of options. Honestly, biting the bullet for duals was probably the best decision I've ever made when it comes to investing in cards I know I'll be able to get solid mileage out of. I'll stop there to avoid going too far off-topic.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I still cannot fathom your argument here though. You dont like the inevitability? You dont like the shell? I just dont understand the issue. Its power level is NOT outside the realm of Modern to answer, and you dont need to be main decking something stupid like RIP, or have 4 Leyline of the Void in the side to do it.
You just need to be able to answer a creature, that can even be pushed, or an artifact.
Is that bar REALLY too high?
Spirits
Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly: you believe Git Probe is a safer unban than SFM?
What inevitability is there even? Cards like K-command, Knight of Autumn easily 2-for-1 a turn 3 batterskull. Now you have a bunch of *****ty 1/2s in your deck that do absolutely nothing. Stoneforge-based strategies are already bang average in Legacy and that's even with Jitte.
You are thinking about this when you are playing it at the earliest opportunity which is not what inevitability is about. It means the longer the game goes the stronger it gets and that's the case with it. You cannot kill a Batterskull with 3 mana up. The SFM/Batterskull package becomes something akin to a makeshift Aetherling or Pearl Lake Ancient just at a way cheaper cost. Or simply a more efficient Brightling.
For some reason people always think about that dreaded turn 3 Batterskull when it comes to SFM and how it would not be good enough, how it can be beat, yada yada. Yeah that's maybe true if that's the only play your are doing in the entire game but the fact is that currently decks that are built for it are able to handle the early onslaught of the aggressive decks. There is enough removal available for that. The problem is actually stabilizing, turning the corner and putting the game out of reach against these type of decks. You are typically at a low life total and while you have exhausted the resources of the opponent yours are exhausted too and that's where haste creatures, flash creatures(this includes Aether Vial), creatures that return from the graveyard, creatures that quickly grow out of control or provide additional value, burn spells, Collected Company,Creeping Chill, manlands, etc. become such a problem.
If they topdeck the right cards you can still lose despite surviving the first assault. In this context it should be more clear how SFM could change things because they are not able to deal with a late one and it will put the game out of reach for them. Because logically if they are able to deal with it that means they had two removal spells sitting in their hand the entire time doing absolutely nothing for their game plan which should mean you are already in the more advantageous position since you faced less pressure and are up on cards. Dealing with both SFM and Skull is still a 2 for 1 in your favor after all and one of them needs to be dedicated artifact removal because creature removal against Skull is only a temporary thing.
I could apply the same logic to ANY pay off card in a low-resource situation - Gideon AOZ, Jace, Lili, Teferi, BBE just to name a few. Any deck that wants to get to the late game already has those tools of inevitability. How is SFM + Skull better than those? And you really don't need to deal with both SFM and skull, you just need to deal with one, depending on the stage of the game.
I guess you haven't read my admitttalbly wall of text. How do any of these cards block and gain life? Drawing cards is cool and all but it doesn't deal with Mantis Riders who come to kill you or the undying Bloodghast army.
Why do you think Baneslayer Angel, Lyra Dawnbringer, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, etc all see play?
Because the typical value generating creatures and planeswalkers are not good enough against the aggressive onslaught so many decks are capable of doing and I honestly think SFM/Skull is better than any these. If the format would be all Control and Midrange things might be different but that's not the case.
Maybe you've been away from Modern but I assure you that Modern as it is right now, there is no way you have the time to play a batterskull recursion game.
But within the last 3-4 months, Midrange has all but been punted from the format. Mardu seems to be dead on a competitive level, Jund and GB/x decks have been consistently underperforming as well.
And yet I dont see too much talk of this, aside from "Oh yeah just dont play Midrange in modern". The archetype was a reasonable choice 3 months ago but has not kept up with the format, and I wonder if WOTC is going to be fine with this or try to give it a leg up somehow.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
But Twin is "warping," SFM is "too good," and let's not forget that Jace and AV were going to "make blue grindy decks take over the format."
For what it's worth, I spent my last FNM for quite a while (wife will be pushing out our baby next week) playing GDS and killing people on turns 3 and 4 all night, cutting most non-accelerant interaction to streamline my speed. Fair decks and interactive decks are just asking for frustration and failure.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop