Not sure how useful this will be to you Modern experts, but I've attempted to synthesize some of the recent discussion on Dredge in this article. It also assesses the available tools to fight the strategy. It does seem to me like Dredge heavily pushes the format towards grave hate; after all, Ravenous Trap is a card we haven't seen at all since the Troll ban! In a Modern with strategies as consistent as proactive as Hollow Phoenix, though, it's anyone's guess as to whether Wizards wants to again address the deck head-on. Regardless, their previous rationale seems to stand.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
yeah whats happening with phoenix decks kinda reminds me of death's shadow. there is this sense that something really good is going on, but it will take a while to find the 1 or 2 shells that prove themselves better.
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Humans had more time, same "warping", more results and no banning. This is ok, we agree?but banning dredge with less time, Less results, same warping? I think it will be not fair against dredge players
Change humans example if you want with kci or tron
Fair decks get more leeway than unfair decks do, and rightly so. Humans was like 10-12% of the top finishes in Modern over the last year, and Modern's been great. The year before that, we had GDS putting up big results like that, and Modern was still really good. If Dredge was putting up 10-12% of the top results, Modern would be awful, and that's because of how unfair decks like Dredge affect the format when they're really good. I don't remember if you were around in late 2016, but Dredge was only like 7% of the format, and it had completely warped it to where everyone gave up on trying to beat it with slower fair decks. The only consistent way to beat Dredge was to go under them, so everyone gravitated towards the fastest goldfish decks they could find. This resulted in Probe and GGT getting banned after a few months.
We don't yet know for sure what the best way to beat Dredge now is. I don't think it's going under them anymore because of Creeping Chill, but we can be certain that the best way is not playing a slower fair strategy.
terminus is good too vs dredge. So it is not only needing fast gravehate
Terminus is ok against Dredge. The fact is that UW has a slow clock, so even when you Terminus them, they'll be able to shuffle their library and Dredge those guys back out in a few turns. It can be difficult for UW to kill them before they can rebuild. You really do need the sideboard graveyard hate to give you the time you need.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
There's a few points about Humans being the #1 deck we have discussed a lot on this forum, but to be brief, its a lot different than Dredge. Dredge is a "must draw sideboard card" deck, Humans isn't.
Creature removal isn't a narrow interaction, while graveyard hate is
I agree with what you're saying, but don't think GY hate can be considered a narrow interaction when there are/have been several successful GY-based decks in the format; uncommon interaction maybe, but when I think of narrow interaction I think of silver bullets like Aura Barbs, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, etc. IMO, solid GY hate like Rest in Peace should have a permanent spot in the sideboard of decks which play the necessary colors and don't get shut down by their own hate. The format has a fairly diverse selection of GY-hate options that simply shut down any deck relying on the GY; I think it'd be more problematic if there was an issue with efficacy, but a resolved RiP/Leyline of the Void is generally game over for those decks.
There's a few points about Humans being the #1 deck we have discussed a lot on this forum, but to be brief, its a lot different than Dredge. Dredge is a "must draw sideboard card" deck, Humans isn't.
Creature removal isn't a narrow interaction, while graveyard hate is
I agree with what you're saying, but don't think GY hate can be considered a narrow interaction when there are/have been several successful GY-based decks in the format; uncommon interaction maybe, but when I think of narrow interaction I think of silver bullets like Aura Barbs, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, etc. IMO, solid GY hate like Rest in Peace should have a permanent spot in the sideboard of decks which play the necessary colors and don't get shut down by their own hate. The format has a fairly diverse selection of GY-hate options that simply shut down any deck relying on the GY; I think it'd be more problematic if there was an issue with efficacy, but a resolved RiP/Leyline of the Void is generally game over for those decks.
I don't remember who said this a few pages back and couldn't find it after a quick search, but someone replied to my post about the # of anti-GY cards in SBs and claimed it wasn't actually the # that mattered too much. Rather, it was both an increased # of such SB cards and a reliance on those cards to win matchups. This would actually make more sense as the so-called "battle of sideboards" and would explain why it's not bad on its own to have anti-GY cards in SBs. It would be bad, however, to have games hinge on drawing such cards.
We could operationalize this as follows. A "battle of sideboards" metagame would see 50%+ of top decks running 3+ hate cards for a specific type of deck (e.g. GY, artifact, big mana, etc.) and G2/G3 outcomes are disproportionately determined by who draws their SB cards. I'm not sure what that cutoff would be. I'll just estimate at 75% because most Modern matchups are in the 60/40-40/60 range and 75% is a quartile over that median. This isn't to say Wizards picked an exact cutoff, but it's just a way to think about the "battle of sideboards" (BoS) more concretely. I suspect this is more what was on their minds when they crunched the Dredge #s back in late 2016.
terminus is good too vs dredge. So it is not only needing fast gravehate
Terminus is ok against Dredge. The fact is that UW has a slow clock, so even when you Terminus them, they'll be able to shuffle their library and Dredge those guys back out in a few turns. It can be difficult for UW to kill them before they can rebuild. You really do need the sideboard graveyard hate to give you the time you need.
yeah dredge having chill + conflag gives them a surprising amount of reach, which can close the door on a game before a control player knows what happened.
from my experience playing against dredge so far i would say that both UW and jeskai(miracles) are good enough against it. its not something you wanna face every round, but its definitely not on the level of jeskai vs. dredge like 1-2 years ago; which was easily one of jeskais worst matchups. terminus + azcanta + the planeswalker package gives you a real shot at keeping up with the insane card advantage engine that is the dredge mechanic. if you can hold on into the mid to late game, the GY hate pieces act more to just close the door in dredges face. jeskai having helix is also great to stay out of burn range.
but its like you said. if the format tries to go under dredge. THAT is what hurts UWx control.
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Humans skates because it doesn't have obvious targets. I mean what are you going to do ban Aether Vial or Cavern of Souls?
Whereas you look at Dredge and you see Faithless Looting which has I don't know since Hollow One been enabling one discard and graveyard abusing deck after another since JTMS and BBE escaped the ban list. And then you look at Creeping Chill which is a free uncounterable 6 point lifeswing. I still do not see how Chill got out the door as is, should have a mana cost tacked onto it. Apparently it simply means for your favorite Modern Deck to get broken cards you need a champion in Play Test.
well part of it is like wraithpk said, certain decks are given more latitude than others. namely fair decks that seek to interact, and its not hard to see why. there is nothing wrong with the degenerate or unfair stuff, but the engaging gameplay for those decks comes from them navigating through resistance. so in essence the unfair needs the fair, but not vice versa.
as for faithless looting, i still think axing it would be the wrong course to take. getting rid of powerful enablers has long reaching ramifications for the format. youd basically be asking people to play garbage cards like tormenting voice or desperate ravings. its not like GY decks, or even GY aggro decks, are inherently bad.
dredge is just a unique case because its a mistake of a mechanic on the level of storm or phyrexian mana, arguably more so. creeping chill is a completely reasonable design in the scope of magic: the gathering. unfortunately dredge isnt playing that game, its playing magic: the dredging where people dont draw cards, cards arent cast, and creatures never die.
oversight? im skeptical. i could see a world where they thought it would work the same as giving any other deck a new toy; and tbh from the info we have atm that is all that is happening.
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People keep talking about Faithless Looting, but I actually think Bloodghast is the biggest problem out of the recursive graveyard decks. It cheats on mana to a huge degree, and only gets better as the game goes on and you chip away at your opponent. I think that banning it would kill multiple graveyard decks, though, which is probably a little excessive.
People keep talking about Faithless Looting, but I actually think Bloodghast is the biggest problem out of the recursive graveyard decks. It cheats on mana to a huge degree, and only gets better as the game goes on and you chip away at your opponent. I think that banning it would kill multiple graveyard decks, though, which is probably a little excessive.
I agree here, its absurd to keep banning little things. Bloodghast is an obvious target, and banning chill is just asking for repeated bans to deal with dredge. You could also just ban amalgam if you want to hit dredge without targeting bridgevine or hollow one.
If humans ever got out of hand you'd ban one of its non cavern rainbow lands, that way it doesn't unfairly hit decks using caverns or vial. Humans doesn't look ban worthy.
I dont think looting needs a ban. Honestly, it almost feels like midrange decks need them, some now and some in the future that aren't existing now.
I said a few years ago stirrings was a problematic cards. Everyone said it had strict guidelines to be used effectively. Not shocked to see that arguement no longer exists. Its not used for fair decks.
I do own tron, though so I can take or leave it
I've never felt dredge benefited this format whatsoever. Not calling for a dredge ban but I'd definitely say good riddance if it stopped existing. I believe it has negatively impacted modern lately even without the results.
If they're going to ban or unban something, I at least hope they exempt the upcoming RPTQs (2-3 weeks afterwards) from the changes because it'd be incredibly annoying for your deck to suddenly become way worse just before such an important tournament.
I don't think looting is the issue. Go ahead and hit Ghast if you need to.
Stirrings is offensive, again though, hit it if you want.
In the end, Modern is bursting at the seams, and it's the 'fair' decks suffering for it.
The problem isn't solved with bans.
yeah i agree with you. its a problem that i think is endemic to the format as a whole. playing against such wide ranging strategies includes experience/knowledge of them, but also the ability to leverage it. so it comes down to consistency, which you get with either cheap selection tools or redundancy. wizards doesnt like games playing out too similarly, but not all decks can build redundantly - at least to the same extent/effect. so some decks suffer for it. it just happens that these decks are the ones hoping to interact.
its not too bad at the moment. its not like no fair or interactive decks are at or near the top of the format. the pattern of events in modern over this last year speaks to something that is getting worse over time, and wack-a-mole bannings wont get to the root of it.
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In the comedic/meme post, Wrapter is making a jab that the best way to attack the format is to play a goldfish deck. Unless a) you're Brad Nelson and play something midrangey, or b) you just prefer to play control even if it's the wrong choice. The format he's talking about? It's actually Standard, not Modern. If you've been watching PT coverage, you've probably seen a lot of WR Aggro and similar strategies looking to race, especially at the top tables. We'll see what the final standings look like tomorrow, but it's likely these will be major performers. This again supports Wrapter's sarcastic, but still telling, post that goldfish decks are the way to go.
This is interesting for Modern players because it suggests that a phenomenon many attribute to Modern (i.e. the alleged two-ships-in-the-night format effect) is actually not unique to Modern. It might just be a broader issue with how contemporary Magic sets are designed, how power gets pushed around, and how answers are spread super thin between lots of decks. Wrapter says as much in his Tweet, challenging control players to rethink the erroneous notion that their answers actually line up against threats like they think they do. I bring this up because we always see the allegation made that Modern is goldfishy. For the most part, this is overblown and/or outright untrue, but there is truth to it in certain events. GP ATL had a T8 that really showed this in action, even if other Modern venues maybe looked better. If Wrapter's tongue in cheek post is to be believed, the problem might be a lot broader than just a Modern issue.
You know what I read a week or 2 back? 'Standard is a lot like Modern now, everything can be answered, but YOU cannot answer everything.'
This is the same thing we have been talking about with Dredge vs most 'normal' decks in terms of answers. Can dredge be accounted for? Yes, but what do you give up? Can tron be accounted for? Yes, by deck choice.
I think it speaks to something FUNDAMENTALLY about Magic, and why certain players feel dissatisfaction at the least, to full blown depression and anguish at the other end about the decks that can and cannot see play.
I could go on and on but its the same tired conversation.
If you do not have a deck which can threaten to delay and then close the door near instantly, why would you not goldfish?
The Design team is learning from what they see in modern and are reeling from the absolute blunder in game design they went through in the last standard. The problem that happened in the last standard is that they designed the game to literally be about smashing each others face and negating removal / blockers. We had creatures that could come back via embalm / Eternalize, a walking semi-indestructible god that could eternalize things out of an opponents graveyard, creatures that could ETB negate blockers or just exert to do the same, and a 5 drop dragon with haste that basically can one shot most early drops to do the same thing, and lets not forget Rekindling Phoenix that keeps leaving a baby unless it gets exiled. That is AFTER dealing with the years of uninteractible energy mechanics that never got an answer card until the twilight days of the entire standard.
The only reason modern survived this hell is because the speed of modern makes most of these strategies bubbling up in standard poor choices and modern doesn't typically evolve much without some push from social media articles or pros. That, and modern actually has spells that EXILE! Isn't that a wonderful thing? Exiling indestructible nightmare creatures that negate blocking and break the freaking game?
... I almost forgot we are talking about modern. Please continue.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern evolves through MTGO...regardless they clearly have designed a better standard with Guilds, I'm glad they got it right, though I just saw 6 of 8 in the Pro Tour Top 8 are White Weenie...so...yeah, aggro em out Magic Players.
maybe it is a problem that exists outside of modern. but that in itself doesnt trivialize or invalidate complaints about the modern format based on it. primarily because modern is uniquely situated to where it could be addressed without jumping through too many hoops. the tools are out there, and formats do and have existed where the issue isnt as prevalent. whereas for standard its something they have to address with shifts in their fundamental design philosophy; which involves trial and error. in the mean time, they could work to make modern a stabilizing force in the game. as in 'hey we keep effing up standard, but modern still has it good'. legacy cant fulfill that role, even though it seems it isnt suffering from this hypothetical problem (just other ones), because of the reserved list.
id say that modern is already doing this to an extent, like i mentioned before though its a matter of the direction modern is heading; not where it is right now.
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maybe it is a problem that exists outside of modern. but that in itself doesnt trivialize or invalidate complaints about the modern format based on it. primarily because modern is uniquely situated to where it could be addressed without jumping through too many hoops. the tools are out there, and formats do and have existed where the issue isnt as prevalent. whereas for standard its something they have to address with shifts in their fundamental design philosophy; which involves trial and error. in the mean time, they could work to make modern a stabilizing force in the game. as in 'hey we keep effing up standard, but modern still has it good'. legacy cant fulfill that role, even though it seems it isnt suffering from this hypothetical problem (just other ones), because of the reserved list.
id say that modern is already doing this to an extent, like i mentioned before though its a matter of the direction modern is heading; not where it is right now.
The real stabilizing factor that would help modern and just about all formats is constructed products that show people how real decks are built. Right now the game is incredibly dependent on online deck listings to demonstrate proper construction and play, with pre-con products being horribly constructed catastrophes of random reprints and questionable includes. To date, they are the only game that I've played as a TCG that does a horrific job at constructed products, having dedicated far too much of their respective resources to trying to teach "garbage decks are good" through limited and draft.
Starter products should not be so inherently weak that it is 100% assured they will lose to a tournament deck. Who do they think that new player is going to play against at an FNM? Another newbie? How many newbies are there in any given community at a time? There's probably just one or two new people introduced into a community and they have to survive absolute hell to make it into being a permanent member of the community. They could easily introduce people with pauper decks and have pauper as the intro non-rotating format, then slowly graduate those players into modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
No, its not normal, and yes it should be the definition of warping. Its like when Burn starts running Ensnaring Bridge. Its an indication of a warped meta. Ive played against Mardu running main deck Surgicals now as well.
No, its not normal, and yes it should be the definition of warping. Its like when Burn starts running Ensnaring Bridge. Its an indication of a warped meta. Ive played against Mardu running main deck Surgicals now as well.
Nov 26th cannot come soon enough.
I personally think that 2-3 Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard of Burn is the correct call and has been through most of Burn's Modern existence. I always feel like it is a budget constraint when it is not run or at least that someone is expecting few creatures to attack.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I played against a Mardu Pyromancer...but minus the Pyro for Phoenix's and it seemed awesome, just to add to all the Phoenix decks right now.
Spirits
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
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WCDeath and Taxes(sold)We don't yet know for sure what the best way to beat Dredge now is. I don't think it's going under them anymore because of Creeping Chill, but we can be certain that the best way is not playing a slower fair strategy.
Terminus is ok against Dredge. The fact is that UW has a slow clock, so even when you Terminus them, they'll be able to shuffle their library and Dredge those guys back out in a few turns. It can be difficult for UW to kill them before they can rebuild. You really do need the sideboard graveyard hate to give you the time you need.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I agree with what you're saying, but don't think GY hate can be considered a narrow interaction when there are/have been several successful GY-based decks in the format; uncommon interaction maybe, but when I think of narrow interaction I think of silver bullets like Aura Barbs, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, etc. IMO, solid GY hate like Rest in Peace should have a permanent spot in the sideboard of decks which play the necessary colors and don't get shut down by their own hate. The format has a fairly diverse selection of GY-hate options that simply shut down any deck relying on the GY; I think it'd be more problematic if there was an issue with efficacy, but a resolved RiP/Leyline of the Void is generally game over for those decks.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I don't remember who said this a few pages back and couldn't find it after a quick search, but someone replied to my post about the # of anti-GY cards in SBs and claimed it wasn't actually the # that mattered too much. Rather, it was both an increased # of such SB cards and a reliance on those cards to win matchups. This would actually make more sense as the so-called "battle of sideboards" and would explain why it's not bad on its own to have anti-GY cards in SBs. It would be bad, however, to have games hinge on drawing such cards.
We could operationalize this as follows. A "battle of sideboards" metagame would see 50%+ of top decks running 3+ hate cards for a specific type of deck (e.g. GY, artifact, big mana, etc.) and G2/G3 outcomes are disproportionately determined by who draws their SB cards. I'm not sure what that cutoff would be. I'll just estimate at 75% because most Modern matchups are in the 60/40-40/60 range and 75% is a quartile over that median. This isn't to say Wizards picked an exact cutoff, but it's just a way to think about the "battle of sideboards" (BoS) more concretely. I suspect this is more what was on their minds when they crunched the Dredge #s back in late 2016.
yeah dredge having chill + conflag gives them a surprising amount of reach, which can close the door on a game before a control player knows what happened.
from my experience playing against dredge so far i would say that both UW and jeskai(miracles) are good enough against it. its not something you wanna face every round, but its definitely not on the level of jeskai vs. dredge like 1-2 years ago; which was easily one of jeskais worst matchups. terminus + azcanta + the planeswalker package gives you a real shot at keeping up with the insane card advantage engine that is the dredge mechanic. if you can hold on into the mid to late game, the GY hate pieces act more to just close the door in dredges face. jeskai having helix is also great to stay out of burn range.
but its like you said. if the format tries to go under dredge. THAT is what hurts UWx control.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Whereas you look at Dredge and you see Faithless Looting which has I don't know since Hollow One been enabling one discard and graveyard abusing deck after another since JTMS and BBE escaped the ban list. And then you look at Creeping Chill which is a free uncounterable 6 point lifeswing. I still do not see how Chill got out the door as is, should have a mana cost tacked onto it. Apparently it simply means for your favorite Modern Deck to get broken cards you need a champion in Play Test.
as for faithless looting, i still think axing it would be the wrong course to take. getting rid of powerful enablers has long reaching ramifications for the format. youd basically be asking people to play garbage cards like tormenting voice or desperate ravings. its not like GY decks, or even GY aggro decks, are inherently bad.
dredge is just a unique case because its a mistake of a mechanic on the level of storm or phyrexian mana, arguably more so. creeping chill is a completely reasonable design in the scope of magic: the gathering. unfortunately dredge isnt playing that game, its playing magic: the dredging where people dont draw cards, cards arent cast, and creatures never die.
oversight? im skeptical. i could see a world where they thought it would work the same as giving any other deck a new toy; and tbh from the info we have atm that is all that is happening.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I agree here, its absurd to keep banning little things. Bloodghast is an obvious target, and banning chill is just asking for repeated bans to deal with dredge. You could also just ban amalgam if you want to hit dredge without targeting bridgevine or hollow one.
If humans ever got out of hand you'd ban one of its non cavern rainbow lands, that way it doesn't unfairly hit decks using caverns or vial. Humans doesn't look ban worthy.
I dont think looting needs a ban. Honestly, it almost feels like midrange decks need them, some now and some in the future that aren't existing now.
I said a few years ago stirrings was a problematic cards. Everyone said it had strict guidelines to be used effectively. Not shocked to see that arguement no longer exists. Its not used for fair decks.
I do own tron, though so I can take or leave it
I've never felt dredge benefited this format whatsoever. Not calling for a dredge ban but I'd definitely say good riddance if it stopped existing. I believe it has negatively impacted modern lately even without the results.
Stirrings is offensive, again though, hit it if you want.
In the end, Modern is bursting at the seams, and it's the 'fair' decks suffering for it.
The problem isn't solved with bans.
Spirits
Dredge is an awful mechanic but I'm not calling for a ban
yeah i agree with you. its a problem that i think is endemic to the format as a whole. playing against such wide ranging strategies includes experience/knowledge of them, but also the ability to leverage it. so it comes down to consistency, which you get with either cheap selection tools or redundancy. wizards doesnt like games playing out too similarly, but not all decks can build redundantly - at least to the same extent/effect. so some decks suffer for it. it just happens that these decks are the ones hoping to interact.
its not too bad at the moment. its not like no fair or interactive decks are at or near the top of the format. the pattern of events in modern over this last year speaks to something that is getting worse over time, and wack-a-mole bannings wont get to the root of it.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)https://twitter.com/wrapter/status/1061390294422355968
In the comedic/meme post, Wrapter is making a jab that the best way to attack the format is to play a goldfish deck. Unless a) you're Brad Nelson and play something midrangey, or b) you just prefer to play control even if it's the wrong choice. The format he's talking about? It's actually Standard, not Modern. If you've been watching PT coverage, you've probably seen a lot of WR Aggro and similar strategies looking to race, especially at the top tables. We'll see what the final standings look like tomorrow, but it's likely these will be major performers. This again supports Wrapter's sarcastic, but still telling, post that goldfish decks are the way to go.
This is interesting for Modern players because it suggests that a phenomenon many attribute to Modern (i.e. the alleged two-ships-in-the-night format effect) is actually not unique to Modern. It might just be a broader issue with how contemporary Magic sets are designed, how power gets pushed around, and how answers are spread super thin between lots of decks. Wrapter says as much in his Tweet, challenging control players to rethink the erroneous notion that their answers actually line up against threats like they think they do. I bring this up because we always see the allegation made that Modern is goldfishy. For the most part, this is overblown and/or outright untrue, but there is truth to it in certain events. GP ATL had a T8 that really showed this in action, even if other Modern venues maybe looked better. If Wrapter's tongue in cheek post is to be believed, the problem might be a lot broader than just a Modern issue.
This is the same thing we have been talking about with Dredge vs most 'normal' decks in terms of answers. Can dredge be accounted for? Yes, but what do you give up? Can tron be accounted for? Yes, by deck choice.
I think it speaks to something FUNDAMENTALLY about Magic, and why certain players feel dissatisfaction at the least, to full blown depression and anguish at the other end about the decks that can and cannot see play.
I could go on and on but its the same tired conversation.
If you do not have a deck which can threaten to delay and then close the door near instantly, why would you not goldfish?
Spirits
The only reason modern survived this hell is because the speed of modern makes most of these strategies bubbling up in standard poor choices and modern doesn't typically evolve much without some push from social media articles or pros. That, and modern actually has spells that EXILE! Isn't that a wonderful thing? Exiling indestructible nightmare creatures that negate blocking and break the freaking game?
... I almost forgot we are talking about modern. Please continue.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
id say that modern is already doing this to an extent, like i mentioned before though its a matter of the direction modern is heading; not where it is right now.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)The real stabilizing factor that would help modern and just about all formats is constructed products that show people how real decks are built. Right now the game is incredibly dependent on online deck listings to demonstrate proper construction and play, with pre-con products being horribly constructed catastrophes of random reprints and questionable includes. To date, they are the only game that I've played as a TCG that does a horrific job at constructed products, having dedicated far too much of their respective resources to trying to teach "garbage decks are good" through limited and draft.
Starter products should not be so inherently weak that it is 100% assured they will lose to a tournament deck. Who do they think that new player is going to play against at an FNM? Another newbie? How many newbies are there in any given community at a time? There's probably just one or two new people introduced into a community and they have to survive absolute hell to make it into being a permanent member of the community. They could easily introduce people with pauper decks and have pauper as the intro non-rotating format, then slowly graduate those players into modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nov 26th cannot come soon enough.
Spirits
I personally think that 2-3 Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard of Burn is the correct call and has been through most of Burn's Modern existence. I always feel like it is a budget constraint when it is not run or at least that someone is expecting few creatures to attack.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)