Stirrings is maybe a Problem, but maybe we can have more then only 1 Problem at same time, lol?
I think we give it some time. Like others have said, SCG regulars wanted to try the new candy, Militia Bugler. Everyone wants to try new cards. There were players that tried Skred Dragons, I bet, but most Spike players realized that's not what gave them the best chance to win. Militia Bugler makes Humans better, but right now we don't know how much better it makes it.
*Also to everyone else, remember when I said that Wizards is going to print a Human to bust the Modern Humans deck open? They're getting close...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Maybe it's fine today, but I disagree that hate leading to non-games is an issue. If you are soft to hate, take it into consideration. If you fold completely to moon, why don't you have Nature's Claim like Tron?
Maybe flavor of the week is more accurate. The deck was in a serious lull in the early-mid portion of this month before Bugler was printed and caught on. I had a streak of 21 leagues without seeing the deck once. Just Modern doing its cyclical thing, nothing to see here.
Seems like a good time to unban Stoneforge Mystic. Humans might have a really hard time answering T3 Batterskull unless they Reflector Mage the token. Even that isn't a great answer to it, though!
I agree it’s a good time to unban SFM, but humans has other options. Meddling Mage or Kitesail Freebooter can prevent someone from playing a SFM on turn 2 if humans is on the play. Also, humans can sideboard in Hostage Taker and Reclamation Sage. In any case, this is more proof that SFM, like Jace and BBE, wouldn’t break the format.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
In the last 3 GPs Humans was clearly declining. Maybe the deck gained some popularity again after Sao Paulo? We can also just nominate Humans as deck of the month if you wish.
EDIT: also nearly no trace of Humans in the MTGO Challenge (only a 14th place). Lots of Spirits though...
Looking over that list, I sure wouldnt be sad to see something that says 'Choose a Creature Type, All Creatures of that Type are -1/-1' or 'Cost 1 more to Cast' to hit Elves, Spirits, Humans, Eldrazi...
In the last 3 GPs Humans was clearly declining. Maybe the deck gained some popularity again after Sao Paulo? We can also just nominate Humans as deck of the month if you wish.
EDIT: also nearly no trace of Humans in the MTGO Challenge (only a 14th place). Lots of Spirits though...
Looking over that list, I sure wouldnt be sad to see something that says 'Choose a Creature Type, All Creatures of that Type are -1/-1' or 'Cost 1 more to Cast' to hit Elves, Spirits, Humans, Eldrazi...
I wouldn't be against an Engineered Plague reprint. It's not a game over for any decks (aside from maybe Goblins?), but could be interesting.
With that, I'm thoroughly in the Humans are just the flavor of the week camp. Deck is fine. Pretty much everything is fine right now. Learn your deck, stop trying to one up the metagame and you'll do fine.
Maybe flavor of the week is more accurate. The deck was in a serious lull in the early-mid portion of this month before Bugler was printed and caught on. I had a streak of 21 leagues without seeing the deck once. Just Modern doing its cyclical thing, nothing to see here.
I saw Humans a little more often, but their shares in competitive leagues had fallen off a cliff for several weeks, probably in response to the heavy Ux Control and Mardu presence. Those decks have in turn retreated a bit online and looks like they were also underrepresented at the SCG Open. Surprise! Humans then does well. That's exactly what you'd expect out of a very tempo-y deck (or aggro control, if you prefer).
Far too many Chicken Littles as of late -- the meta is absolutely fluctuating as shares of archetypes shift. That's exactly what we should want for a healthy format. Humans is not an unconquerable beast; if it starts to become dominant, there will likely be a corresponding rise in its natural predators.
for me i just like to see standard sets making a lasting impact. the unfortunate byproduct of this is the feedback loop where community reactions are exaggerated.
still a fan of the new form of ur wizards. just having 4 more copies of lightning bolt could be what revitalizes the ur tempo archetype. from what ive seen of the camera matches mutavault is huge game.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
yeah and wich deck survive? ones with vial....Bad hate
Thats actually a good thing. Give decks another avenue to get around hate, but weaken them. Thats kind of the point of hate. Its a nerf, not an outright 'you dont get your deck anymore, wait 3+ years for something kinda/sorta as good to come along after 8 sets are printed'.
Looking over that list, I sure wouldnt be sad to see something that says 'Choose a Creature Type, All Creatures of that Type are -1/-1' or 'Cost 1 more to Cast' to hit Elves, Spirits, Humans, Eldrazi...
Tribal decks don't need to be neutered. There's nothing wrong with Humans being near the top of the pile. Elves is fringe, occasionally tier 2. Eldrazi has all but vanished over the past few months. Spirits hasn't actually done anything of note yet, yeah they got a cool lord but let's not anoint them dominant before any actual domination occurs.
A hate card wouldnt 'neuter' anything. Not anymore than Anger already kills elves if you can catch them early, or Bolt/Push/Path can do work.
I mean its not a crazy thing to suggest we get a safety valve for IF they become oppressive. There is nothing wrong with Humans being good, I agree. There is something wrong when decks become too good, with not solid enough answers.
EDIT: Lets not forget, we have 15 slots for decks that are not 'cheating' by getting sideboard functions on 'plan a' level cards...which oh, are all Creatures, in Tribes, with spells stapled to them. Interesting that.
Tribal decks will continue to not have to dilute their plan, to the level the rest of us do, just to bring in x of 15 sideboard cards.
As it is, I have to cut on what I can possibly hate on, and thats with a deck as flexible as UWR.
A hate card wouldnt 'neuter' anything. Not anymore than Anger already kills elves if you can catch them early, or Bolt/Push/Path can do work.
I mean its not a crazy thing to suggest we get a safety valve for IF they become oppressive. There is nothing wrong with Humans being good, I agree. There is something wrong when decks become too good, with not solid enough answers.
EDIT: Lets not forget, we have 15 slots for decks that are not 'cheating' by getting sideboard functions on 'plan a' level cards...which oh, are all Creatures, in Tribes, with spells stapled to them. Interesting that.
Tribal decks will continue to not have to dilute their plan, to the level the rest of us do, just to bring in x of 15 sideboard cards.
As it is, I have to cut on what I can possibly hate on, and thats with a deck as flexible as UWR.
WOTC wants the game to be about creatures. So yes, creature based decks WILL continue to get better. There's no way around that unless the mothership just decides to stop adding new standard sets to modern and freezes it now. Gotta face that reality.
Wizards wants draft, and standard to be about creatures.
The formats people actually care to watch, are not just about creatures, and can get cards that are clearly targeted for them in the form of recent hate cards.
As I already told before, there is no need for extra creature hate.
There is already plenty of that in Modern.
Its simply forward thinking. Instead of waiting months/years, what would be the harm in printing something 'In case of Fire: Break Glass' to be there for when there IS (and as you all love to tell me, Wizards loves creatures and will keep on pushing them) a problem?
I cannot understand the argument that we dont need it, which I agree we dont TODAY, so dont bother.
How many cards in a set, for those of us who dont draft, are unarguably, literally, garbage? Pick one. Turn it into a pushed anti-tribal hate card, and walk away.
No harm. No risk. No damage. Just a card that in 5 years people can pick up and say 'yes this, is the answer for the fact we have 4 tribal tier 1 decks'.
What should this "lie" about humans done nothing in the last weeks still here?? I checked 7 (seven) inventional in a row ( last ones) bevore stopped..do you know which deck allways was in top 8? Only humans! Not kci, not tron. Deck on decline, lol. Please argue with facts guys and not with opinions
Creature decks aren't a problem. The thing that they have to watch for is infinite loops, ramping too fast, and asymmetric strategic power imbalance unintentionally creating a symmetric gameplay state by eliminating all but a few viable strategies.
Or in simple terms: don't bring about eldrazi winter number 2.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I want something that is specific, to Tribal. Not spot removal. Not 'less than 3 removal' not Exile Sweepers, not uncountable sweepers, and not Miracle Sweepers.
I want anti-tribal hate, specific to Tribal. Engineered Plague, at 2 Mana, for example.
Its fine though, hopefully I'm wrong and Wizards doesnt push any low cmc cost, spells stapled to bodies, in relevant tribes...I'm sure they wouldnt do that.
Wizards wants draft, and standard to be about creatures.
The formats people actually care to watch, are not just about creatures, and can get cards that are clearly targeted for them in the form of recent hate cards.
I'm not asking for the moon here.
Well sure but WOTC is going to keep the focus on printing creatures which suggest overtime more and more strong creatures will slip out into other formats while less and less spells make the jump. They want the game to be about Walkers and Creatures presumably they execute that by putting out stronger creatures and more supportive spells.
Wizards wants draft, and standard to be about creatures.
The formats people actually care to watch, are not just about creatures, and can get cards that are clearly targeted for them in the form of recent hate cards.
I'm not asking for the moon here.
Well sure but WOTC is going to keep the focus on printing creatures which suggest overtime more and more strong creatures will slip out into other formats while less and less spells make the jump. They want the game to be about Walkers and Creatures presumably they execute that by putting out stronger creatures and more supportive spells.
Which is fine, for Draft and Standard. Whatever, let it all be a grind fest, I dont care, turn em sideways.
There are reasons Modern draws more views than anything else. I doubt its just for creature combat and walkers.
Sure I don't think you are wrong but do you think WOTC really understands what makes Modern Popular? Or to put it another way do you think they agree with your position?
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Also, as a recent devotee of the Blood Moon, why is hate a bad way to help correct formats?
Spirits
I think we give it some time. Like others have said, SCG regulars wanted to try the new candy, Militia Bugler. Everyone wants to try new cards. There were players that tried Skred Dragons, I bet, but most Spike players realized that's not what gave them the best chance to win. Militia Bugler makes Humans better, but right now we don't know how much better it makes it.
*Also to everyone else, remember when I said that Wizards is going to print a Human to bust the Modern Humans deck open? They're getting close...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'd rather see hate, than bans.
Spirits
I agree it’s a good time to unban SFM, but humans has other options. Meddling Mage or Kitesail Freebooter can prevent someone from playing a SFM on turn 2 if humans is on the play. Also, humans can sideboard in Hostage Taker and Reclamation Sage. In any case, this is more proof that SFM, like Jace and BBE, wouldn’t break the format.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Looking over that list, I sure wouldnt be sad to see something that says 'Choose a Creature Type, All Creatures of that Type are -1/-1' or 'Cost 1 more to Cast' to hit Elves, Spirits, Humans, Eldrazi...
Spirits
I wouldn't be against an Engineered Plague reprint. It's not a game over for any decks (aside from maybe Goblins?), but could be interesting.
With that, I'm thoroughly in the Humans are just the flavor of the week camp. Deck is fine. Pretty much everything is fine right now. Learn your deck, stop trying to one up the metagame and you'll do fine.
I saw Humans a little more often, but their shares in competitive leagues had fallen off a cliff for several weeks, probably in response to the heavy Ux Control and Mardu presence. Those decks have in turn retreated a bit online and looks like they were also underrepresented at the SCG Open. Surprise! Humans then does well. That's exactly what you'd expect out of a very tempo-y deck (or aggro control, if you prefer).
Far too many Chicken Littles as of late -- the meta is absolutely fluctuating as shares of archetypes shift. That's exactly what we should want for a healthy format. Humans is not an unconquerable beast; if it starts to become dominant, there will likely be a corresponding rise in its natural predators.
still a fan of the new form of ur wizards. just having 4 more copies of lightning bolt could be what revitalizes the ur tempo archetype. from what ive seen of the camera matches mutavault is huge game.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Thats actually a good thing. Give decks another avenue to get around hate, but weaken them. Thats kind of the point of hate. Its a nerf, not an outright 'you dont get your deck anymore, wait 3+ years for something kinda/sorta as good to come along after 8 sets are printed'.
Spirits
Just reprint Engineered Plague.
UR Murktide
Pauper
RW Monarch
UW Caw-Gate
UBR Affinity
Spirits
I mean its not a crazy thing to suggest we get a safety valve for IF they become oppressive. There is nothing wrong with Humans being good, I agree. There is something wrong when decks become too good, with not solid enough answers.
EDIT: Lets not forget, we have 15 slots for decks that are not 'cheating' by getting sideboard functions on 'plan a' level cards...which oh, are all Creatures, in Tribes, with spells stapled to them. Interesting that.
Tribal decks will continue to not have to dilute their plan, to the level the rest of us do, just to bring in x of 15 sideboard cards.
As it is, I have to cut on what I can possibly hate on, and thats with a deck as flexible as UWR.
Spirits
WOTC wants the game to be about creatures. So yes, creature based decks WILL continue to get better. There's no way around that unless the mothership just decides to stop adding new standard sets to modern and freezes it now. Gotta face that reality.
The formats people actually care to watch, are not just about creatures, and can get cards that are clearly targeted for them in the form of recent hate cards.
I'm not asking for the moon here.
Spirits
Its simply forward thinking. Instead of waiting months/years, what would be the harm in printing something 'In case of Fire: Break Glass' to be there for when there IS (and as you all love to tell me, Wizards loves creatures and will keep on pushing them) a problem?
I cannot understand the argument that we dont need it, which I agree we dont TODAY, so dont bother.
How many cards in a set, for those of us who dont draft, are unarguably, literally, garbage? Pick one. Turn it into a pushed anti-tribal hate card, and walk away.
No harm. No risk. No damage. Just a card that in 5 years people can pick up and say 'yes this, is the answer for the fact we have 4 tribal tier 1 decks'.
Whats the problem?
Spirits
Or in simple terms: don't bring about eldrazi winter number 2.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
'You have Blood Moon for Tron, what more do you want?'
I want Crumble to Dust, Field of Ruin, Damping Sphere, and Alpine Moon as well.
I want something that is specific, to Tribal. Not spot removal. Not 'less than 3 removal' not Exile Sweepers, not uncountable sweepers, and not Miracle Sweepers.
I want anti-tribal hate, specific to Tribal. Engineered Plague, at 2 Mana, for example.
Its fine though, hopefully I'm wrong and Wizards doesnt push any low cmc cost, spells stapled to bodies, in relevant tribes...I'm sure they wouldnt do that.
Spirits
Well sure but WOTC is going to keep the focus on printing creatures which suggest overtime more and more strong creatures will slip out into other formats while less and less spells make the jump. They want the game to be about Walkers and Creatures presumably they execute that by putting out stronger creatures and more supportive spells.
Which is fine, for Draft and Standard. Whatever, let it all be a grind fest, I dont care, turn em sideways.
There are reasons Modern draws more views than anything else. I doubt its just for creature combat and walkers.
Spirits