So I want to try brewing in modern, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm pretty new, so I don't quite have a grasp on the speed of different formats, but I've heard of some pretty scary things in modern. Like, apparently there's a deck that swings with a 14 power flier (or something like that) on turn 3 with average draw? Yikes.
If it's that fast a meta, then I'm kinda worried all my johnny combos will just be blitzed down before I get to do anything, and here I thought that this would be a format that allowed more creativity than standard. But a guy at my lgs told me that maybe 1 card a set sees any modern play. That sounds like, REALLY stale.
So just how high is the power level here compared to standard? Is there any room for rogue decks here? Or will the local modern events just eat me alive if I bring anything less than a tier 1 netdeck?
power is quite a bit higher than standard. if you are talking more casual events like weekly gatherings then more brews show up, but once there are more serious prize implications people will show up with top tier stuff.
that said there are a LOT of competitive decks in modern, and rogue brews can be successful by doing something offbeat but surrounding it with powerful cards for that type of shell. in fact that is usually how new decks are found.
for instance you could play a less powerful tribal deck, but bolster it with good removal and collected company
the 'critical turn' for modern is typically seen as turn 4. so if you are not presenting something meaningful or interacting with your opponent substantially by then you arent likely to succeed.
the number of modern playables per standard set is way higher than 1. it isnt uncommon to see 5-10, or even more in some cases. what you wont see are cards that compete with format staples that shape the format. for example lightning bolt, thoughtseize, or aether vial. however 2 of the best decks right now (humans and hollow one) only exist because of cards from hour of devastation and ixalan.
check out the sub forums to see what decks are out there. best of luck.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
So I want to try brewing in modern, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm pretty new, so I don't quite have a grasp on the speed of different formats, but I've heard of some pretty scary things in modern. Like, apparently there's a deck that swings with a 14 power flier (or something like that) on turn 3 with average draw? Yikes.
If it's that fast a meta, then I'm kinda worried all my johnny combos will just be blitzed down before I get to do anything, and here I thought that this would be a format that allowed more creativity than standard. But a guy at my lgs told me that maybe 1 card a set sees any modern play. That sounds like, REALLY stale.
So just how high is the power level here compared to standard? Is there any room for rogue decks here? Or will the local modern events just eat me alive if I bring anything less than a tier 1 netdeck?
honestly, modern is a mix. the power level (and complexity) is a significant cut above standard, but it's definitely not as extreme as you've been led to believe. Modern is almost the home of rogue decks these days. the number of new cards which impact Modern is actually pretty high. What you usually don't see is those new cards outright supplanting the mega pillars of the format such as tarmogoyf. However, the metagame of Modern always swings around a bit after a new set-release as things balance out, and cards such as fatal push, as foretold, hollow one and kitesail freebooter can spawn whole decks out of nowhere or up-end the format entirely for months.
modern decks on the whole tend to utilise a lot of synergy rather than raw power. this is true for all the major archetypes. even aggro decks often have a synergistic combo-esque element i.e. burning-tree emissary+reckless bushwhacker. the best decks right now are probably as follows, but it changes frequently:
Humans
Affinity
Hollow One
Jund
humans and affinity are synergy-based aggro decks that use mostly small creatures (e.g. champion of the parish and vault skirge). Humans overcomes this issue because their creatures are disruptive (e.g. kitesail freebooter) and therefore able to pick apart opposing decks while presenting a fairly quick clock. Affinity overcomes the tiny creature problem (e.g. ornithopter) by playing cards like cranial plating and arcbound ravager. Hollow One is a new deck and is a mix of aggro/combo. It's a slow aggro deck, but a couple of synergistic combo elements allow the deck to put down very aggressive starts every few games which boosts its overall win % by a reasonable amount. it's currently quite popular and some have called it the best deck in modern (debatable! but i can see why they'd say it for sure).
Jund is a slower, midrange deck that plays lots of cheap removal and ways to disrupt an opponent's hand. It leverages this advantage by playing the most efficient cheap threats in magic, such as tarmogoyf. it keeps players in topdeck mode with liliana of the veil and out-advantages opposing topdecks by having man-lands such as raging ravine and card advantage from cards like dark confidant. It recently got a boost from bloodbraid elf, which was banned for a few years and is now legal again. Jund is the only deck on this quick breakdown which favours card power over synergy.
New decks crop up all the time, and the metagame is always shifting around, so it's the opposite of stale. In fact, this actually freaks some people out:
- many modern players assume modern is this hugely stable format where decks maintain a roughly equivalent status in the metagame all the time. In fact, decks swing in and out of popularity on a regular basis in predictable cycles, but it doesn't stop a paranoid vocal part of the community from calling for bans like crazed maniacs every time a new deck swims up to the top tier for a month or so. keep an eye out for this, it's both funny and infuriating.
the modern metagame (to roll with my point above) varies cycles of about a month. most decks in modern float around being visible but rarely win anything outright. That's modern in a nutshell. Expect to see a wide variety of decks when you play, but don't expect them to consistently stay at the top. As soon as one deck does well, everything shifts subtly to beat it, and the cycle continues. What's 'the best' and 'banworthy' right now will be mid-tier reasonableness in a month or two. Rogue or fringe decks put up results all the time, even winning GP level events. in amongst this variation, there are a few stalwart decks which do a great job of always being baseline playable. Abzan/Jund (one of them, at least) is a good example of this. there's always a playable midrange deck, although which one does change over time. Tron and affinity are other examples - never busted, just always there. Lower down the tier-roster we have decks like Merfolk, which while always there and baseline playable is rarely if ever top-tier. decks like that are great for local events and as a rogue contender for some larger tournaments.
format speed:
the format of modern is fast, but not really fast in the sense that you've been led to believe. Mainly it's fast in the sense that you always need to have done something meaningful by turn three, to either a) interact with your opponent and stall what they're doing or b) get aggressive.
what that means isn't perhaps as intense as you suggested in your above post. your disruption could be as little as lightning bolt or an inquisition of kozilek, and that's usually enough to give you a nice start if your gameplan is to lightly disrupt and then beat down your opponent with value creatures such as grim flayer or snapcaster mage. it's rare for decks to outright win on turn three or four, but it does happen if you can't interact with them somehow. mainly though, you'll be seeing aggressive decks (either combo or aggro) winning around turn 5. Most combos in modern rely on creatures in some form, so creature removal tends to be at a premium in the format overall. for instance, devoted druid and vizier of remedies gives you infinite G, which is a popular combo from the last six months or so. hollow one uses burning inquiry to drop an early 4/4 or two. that's a pseudo combo which is also remedied by decent creature removal. I could go on, but you get the idea.
the best removal spells in modern are these:
two and three mana options are played far less, but do see occasional play if the deck wants it (i.e. abrupt decay and kolaghan's command both see reasonable play)
at Modern tournaments, you generally see most opponents rocking something from the top 2 tiers of Modern. That's pretty broad (around 80 decks overall) and you'll certainly see historic/new/rogue/fringe decks with some regularity, but it's generally the norm to see most opponents playing something with a proven record in the format. more competitive players will switch around between what's "tier 1" so keeping an eye on those can give you a hint on what to expect. There's usually some kind of 'new hotness' floating around in modern, and there'll always be a chunk of players building and testing these new decks. keeping abreast of the modern news will keep you prepared for this. on a local level, players often get known for playing a specific deck, so "the storm guy" etc. This is actually a really great part of modern and allows for conversations and a sense of community as people master their archetype or even switch around between different ones.
there's a few 'controversial' decks in modern. for the most part, these decks are mid-tier reasonable decks that have been floating around for some time and occasionally appear in a top-8 or something. They slide in and out of popularity, and it's great that these decks are able to exist because it allows more people to express themselves through their own playstyle. some people just love to hate them though. Tron is one such deck. On the face of it, it's a completely reasonable ramp deck and plays big colourless cards to take over, from about turn 3-4 depending on the draw (e.g. karn liberated). it's pretty good against the slower disruptive decks, but poor against fast aggro and combo. it does beat up on slower and jankier brews something terrible, so it makes sense that a certain proportion of players would dislike playing against it. Another such deck is lantern control. Lantern is... well it's absolutely miserable to play against, but as a deck it's a fascinating clockwork arrangement of tiny insignificant pieces. it uses lantern of insight and codex shredder to manipulate what their opponent gets to draw, denying them threats and answers and usually just giving them lots of lands. it stops creatures with ensnaring bridge, and wins by milling the opponent out with multiple shredders. it's a slow painful way to lose, but the design of the deck itself is brilliant and inspired.
keep an eye out for vocal and hateful players who rail on specific strategies. you'd be wise to just ignore them, honestly. play what you want!
the long and short is that modern is hands down the most diverse format in magic. It rivals and arguably surpasses Legacy in terms of complexity and 'amount of play' to the format (although of course, the character and overall 'feeling' of both formats is quite different). It's Wizards' most popular format in terms of bringing in audiences when large events put up livestreams, it allows you to master a pet deck. If you are honest and logical about how to build for the Modern format, it's also a brewer's haven (although as a large competitive format, it definitely punishes shoddy kitchen-table brewing). You'll frequently see people playing wild and wacky decks you've not seen for years, or ever, and you'll also get plenty of opportunity to play against top tier strategies.
by quite a few metrics, Modern is currently the most significant competitive format, and it's incredibly rewarding. What it requires from players though (if you want to succeed) is the ability to take a step back and realise you have much to learn. even the most seasoned pro players enter into modern self-assured by their superior magic-playing ability only to get trashed by people who have 1000+ reps with their pet elves deck or whatever. as a result, modern does get somewhat of a bad rep from a certain part of the magic community. usual complaints are "it's too high variance" and "it's too uninteractive". These comments don't look at the big picture and fail to explain how the same modern-invested players consistently do really well in the format, even playing wildly unfavoured decks. What those comments do show rather clearly is that even some of the best magic players in the world can be a bit stumped by modern when they first get into the format. That's a lesson to be humble. Playing Modern and doing so consistently well is a pretty big step-up in terms of developing your magic oeuvre, and it takes reps and time to properly get to grips with such a broad format. It's super fun, engaging, challenging and complex but it's a steep learning curve if you are going to be rocking tournaments and want to be hitting top-8s and stuff.
oh and if you care about financial aspects, in the long-term modern is cheaper to play than standard (no rotations).
if i had to give any parting advice, it would be the following:
- research and familiarise yourself with the broad swathe of top tier decks in modern. this forum is a reasonable place to start, and mtggoldfish.com is another. just googling a deck name is often enough to find decent resources. look at top 32s and Day-2 metagames from recent GPs for an idea of what the format looks like overall (ignore top-8s if you want to understand a metagame, they are a highly variable snapshot and never representative of the larger picture).
- when starting to play, go for a proven deck of some kind. doesn't have to be tier 1, just something that's seen a reasonable amount of play. There are so many to choose from you'll find something you like. Check out forums and articles on the deck and get to grips with it. from there you'll learn more about the format at large, and some of the considerations which you'd completely miss as a brand new player to the format.
- don't enter into modern expecting to be able to brew new decks for the format. it just won't work. Learn about the format first, get some games under your belt and a good grasp of what's possible and what isn't. Some decks in modern seem weird and unintuitive, but work because of the nature of Modern (lantern control is an example).
- try not to skimp on your manabases. most proven decks have very refined and carefully crafted manabases, and it's far more important in Modern than it is in standard to get this bit right. there's a few corners you can cut (you'll find these out the more you research) but overall that's a mistake a lot of players make when transitioning to standard (at least, for a while). worth mentioning - once you've got modern staple lands like fetches and shocks, keep 'em. those guys are not for trade. there is so much overlap in their usage in Modern that nearly every deck wants some number of them. having a decent selection of modern staple lands will negate most of the cost of trading or buying into a new deck as well. so if you stock up on lands, switching around between decks becomes fairly easy (for the most part).
- have fun, find other modern players and talk/share ideas about the format on the regular. Modern is very much a communal affair and you won't get far playing lone wolf, trying to solve anything in splendid isolation. most of all PLAY. get in the reps. learn and learn some more.
if you want to improve your competitive edge in constructed, I can't think of a better format.
take it easy bud.
The thing with modern is, as in legacy or vintage is the much bigger cardpool you can choose from.
For those scary things you heard about modern, they can happen like that, but that is not neccessarily the case all or even in most of the times. As stated before, there are some critical turns where decks do what they want to do and that is faster than in standard for sure but not always around turn 4. it is an average time where things happen.
Also even if a deck is capable of doing crazy things in the first turns you don't run into them all the time. The decks here are diverse much more than in standard and this is why some brews can steal games or even some local tournaments. I also want to come up with decks that are in this niche but are competitive. But that also depends on where you play. Local tournaments or playgroups allow a lot more, but expect a much harder, more unforgiving field if you go to greater tournaments qualifiers or something.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I'd just like to add to my above rather long post, that modern is definitely a huge amount of fun.
There's a reason people like "seth, probably better known as saffron olive" pretty much only play modern, and that's because there's so much to do and learn.
Legacy, while amazing, can't hold a candle to the variety of modern, and that's why I'm still in love with the format and getting taken to school years after building my first modern deck.
If you have a friendly playgroup who also dabbles in the format, it's a pretty nice place and a fantastic card pool from which to discover and learn new decks and the complexities of magic. Start small and work your way up =)
Modern games are full of technical play (just look at mishra's bauble!!) . And some decks are definitely harder to pilot than others. Even within an archetype like aggro or control there may be ten or so different decks which operate under this banner and provide different play experiences.
Maybe it's worth grabbing a few friends together and proxying a bit of a modern gauntlet with a selection of decks you find interesting. Don't over-focus on the idea of something supposedly being the best. In a few weeks something else will hold that mantle. Find something you like and practice practice practice. Then you'll notice opportunities to change and tweak that deck to your personal taste. Go for it! Modern is as much about expression as it is about skill.
Enjoy it =) modern is intense but it's such a great learning opportunity and fun format I'd be hard pressed to find any excuses to dissuade you from trying it out.
So I want to try brewing in modern, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm pretty new, so I don't quite have a grasp on the speed of different formats, but I've heard of some pretty scary things in modern. Like, apparently there's a deck that swings with a 14 power flier (or something like that) on turn 3 with average draw? Yikes.
That might have been Affinity with Cranial Plating. BTW, Infect can swing for 10 poison on turn 2 unopposed (T1 Glistener Elf, T2 double Might of Old Krosa, Mutagenic Growth) and has even more sequences leading to a T3 goldfish. Having said that, it's not even considered one of the top decks at the moment. Goldfish speed isn't everything.
If it's that fast a meta, then I'm kinda worried all my johnny combos will just be blitzed down before I get to do anything, and here I thought that this would be a format that allowed more creativity than standard.
There is more creativity than Standard due to the larger card pool. For example, let's say you want to play Hollow One. You'll find more success in Modern than Standard because you can play cards like Faithless Looting, Street Wraith and Burning Inquiry, all of which let you drop Hollow One (maybe even multiples!) on turn 1. And as you can expect, a turn 1 4/4 is really hard to deal with. It's a top tier deck now.
As a fellow Johnny I'll let you in on two big challenges combo decks are facing. The first are maindeck hatebears, i.e. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben from Humans and Eidolon of the Great Revel from Burn. Those two decks are popular and they will crap all over your combo if it involves playing multiple spells per turn. The second is cheap removal, namely Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, and to a lesser extent Path to Exile. "Fair" decks play these cards to kill opposing creatures so they can attack or stop taking damage from the creature. However, if your combo involves a creature, they can also use removal to disrupt your combo. In the past combo decks dodged this problem because they had engines that weren't creatures (e.g. Pyromancer Ascension in Storm, Summer Bloom in Amulet), but PA has been replaced by Baral, Chief of Compliance and Bloom with Sakura-Tribe Scout, making it easier for fair decks to interact with them. Even the most combo-riffic card from Dominaria (Skirk Prospector) is a creature. And yes, combo Goblins gets crapped on by Thalia and Eidolon.
But a guy at my lgs told me that maybe 1 card a set sees any modern play. That sounds like, REALLY stale.
That's an exaggeration for most sets (although it was REALLY true for Rivals of Ixalan. The one card that saw any play was Dire Fleet Daredevil).
So just how high is the power level here compared to standard? Is there any room for rogue decks here? Or will the local modern events just eat me alive if I bring anything less than a tier 1 netdeck?
The power level is a lot higher. All of the cards that have been banned in recent Standard are complete jokes in Modern (Reflector Mage is a decent creature though, and some people still play the Felidar Guardian + Saheeli Rai combo but it's not very successful).
You can play rogue decks. MTGO decklists, while much-maligned, show that it's possible to win 5 matches in a row with some pretty creative decks. However, I recommend against brewing decks just for the sake of it until you have a really good grasp of the other decks in the format. You need to know what the fair decks can do to stop you, and you need to know how your deck compares to the other unfair decks in terms of speed, consistency, and what kinds of hate it folds to.
This has probably been covered already, but every deck punishes you in some way if you stumble. I stumbled with Abzan Counters, getting Devoted Druid and Vizier of Remedies, but nothing to do with infinite Green mana. It usually becomes a loss, depending on how quick a deck you play against or how badly your opponent stumbles. Watch the finals of the GP Hartford for some further evidence - in Game 3, they both stumbled a bit and mostly had some defense or interaction to slow the other person.
If you stumble against Burn, you've taken 20 before you know it. If you stumble against UW Control, they will have a mana edge, card edge, and be in control of the game. If you stumble against Lantern, they have a Lantern, a mill rock, and an Ensnaring Bridge staring you down. If you stumble against other decks like Hollow One, you're dead on turn 3. Every deck punishes poor draws, mulligans, or bad keeps from an opponent in their own way.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
These replies have all really alleviated the fears I had about getting into the format, thank you!
I've already netdecked one of Saffron's budget moderns, so I'll be taking that to as many modern events as possible and trying to get a feel of the decks. With any luck, I'll eventually put together something of my own, something I can be proud of.
These replies have all really alleviated the fears I had about getting into the format, thank you!
I've already netdecked one of Saffron's budget moderns, so I'll be taking that to as many modern events as possible and trying to get a feel of the decks. With any luck, I'll eventually put together something of my own, something I can be proud of.
I'll share it here when that time comes.
Yeah, I've built decks for modern that are just casual brews and have won tournament games against T1 decks, it's just that how consistent someone can pull off a win is a big deal with the GP grinders so they basically have to go T2 and T1. I still love my undying ancestral vengeance deck that I brewed up a few years ago. I should probably go and revisit that one since they added so many tools recently.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I feel that modern can really punish a bad brew or make it hard to work on a brew, since decks are so tuned
That's true of any competitive format. Like legacy though, modern decks in the top tiers get more time and have more resources to become refined and improved.
At fnm level you will probably be ok iterating on any number of fringe decks and still have a good shot at competitiveness.
At a GP main event, it's another story entirely. Bring your most scientific method and your best game-face to these events or crash out early. These are the top of the top for most players.
If you're playing casually with friends, modern can just be a sensible cutoff point and banlist to use to keep things fun.
Modern's a pretty good Polymorph. It can be many things to many people, and its versatility is its strength. You can go into modern to 'settle' from standard while still getting that kick out of a changeable format, because of how much it cycles and swings about. One week everyone's complaining about bogles, a few weeks later it's all but forgotten. Meanwhile you can plug away with your favourite deck and enjoy watching other decks fall in and out of favour, tweaking your sideboard as the metagame develops.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Well, they could try doing a brewers modern tournament each time they release a new standard set. Just make it so a certain percentage of the cards have to be from the current standard and the rest can be modern legal. That and I'm curious to see how many people actually know how to build anything that play modern.
I'm almost certain the people brewing in the budget forum have a better grasp on deck construction thanks to the limitations they are working in than the majority of players playing T1->T2 decks.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, they could try doing a brewers modern tournament each time they release a new standard set. Just make it so a certain percentage of the cards have to be from the current standard and the rest can be modern legal. That and I'm curious to see how many people actually know how to build anything that play modern.
I'm almost certain the people brewing in the budget forum have a better grasp on deck construction thanks to the limitations they are working in than the majority of players playing T1->T2 decks.
Lol. Pretty sure most people who play tournament magic are perfectly capable of brewing a good budget deck. It really isn't that complicated, especially now that most of the math is publicly available online and databases of cards are readily available. It might have been a bit tougher in '98, I'll concede, but these days it's actually pretty easy to build a reasonably cheap and tier 2 level deck.
Well, they could try doing a brewers modern tournament each time they release a new standard set. Just make it so a certain percentage of the cards have to be from the current standard and the rest can be modern legal. That and I'm curious to see how many people actually know how to build anything that play modern.
I'm almost certain the people brewing in the budget forum have a better grasp on deck construction thanks to the limitations they are working in than the majority of players playing T1->T2 decks.
Lol. Pretty sure most people who play tournament magic are perfectly capable of brewing a good budget deck. It really isn't that complicated, especially now that most of the math is publicly available online and databases of cards are readily available. It might have been a bit tougher in '98, I'll concede, but these days it's actually pretty easy to build a reasonably cheap and tier 2 level deck.
I'm actually not referring to career type MTG tournament grinders that we get to see make the top 16-32 lists. What I'm referring to are the masses; the people that see the results and then buy into the hype: This is the bulk of the players that play modern magic. In general, I find people who play modern are aged players that collect cards and piece together expensive decks. They may know the deck really well, but they generally aren't deck brewers.
Modern players are also a lot more jovial from my own experience than most standard players that do the same type of thing. I mean, if you sat down and played a game vs IdSurge or purklefluff it's probably going to be a good experience.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern players are also a lot more jovial from my own experience than most standard players that do the same type of thing. I mean, if you sat down and played a game vs IdSurge or purklefluff it's probably going to be a good experience.
Isn't FoodChainGoblins on this list as well?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Modern players are also a lot more jovial from my own experience than most standard players that do the same type of thing. I mean, if you sat down and played a game vs IdSurge or purklefluff it's probably going to be a good experience.
Isn't FoodChainGoblins on this list as well?
Yes, you are on the list FoodChainGoblins.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern players are also a lot more jovial from my own experience than most standard players that do the same type of thing. I mean, if you sat down and played a game vs IdSurge or purklefluff it's probably going to be a good experience.
Isn't FoodChainGoblins on this list as well?
I think there are definitely more of the mtgsal crew on that list. But yeah the people in your environment make modern an easier format to play in, even if games are a struggle.
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I'm actually not referring to career type MTG tournament grinders that we get to see make the top 16-32 lists. What I'm referring to are the masses; the people that see the results and then buy into the hype: This is the bulk of the players that play modern magic. In general, I find people who play modern are aged players that collect cards and piece together expensive decks. They may know the deck really well, but they generally aren't deck brewers.
Again, not wanting to brew, and not being capable of brewing are two very different things. I'd bet you that your average modern player can build a decent budget version of a cheaper linear deck, like Kiln Fiend or Bogles. The complicated brewing would be a functional budget control deck. I guess you could do a Mystical Teachings/Peer Through The Depths core, or with Spreading Seas/Field of Ruin.
Modern players are also a lot more jovial from my own experience than most standard players that do the same type of thing. I mean, if you sat down and played a game vs IdSurge, FoodChainGoblins, or purklefluff it's probably going to be a good experience.
Yeah. This has been my experience, with one caveat: There are some grinders who are really, really focused on having the best deck in the format, and they can be pretty unpleasant to be around when their deck loses to variance. Standard has more of them, but there seems to be a circle of Modern Specialists who have very pointed ideas about what can work in Modern... and when it doesn't, they get downright boogie2988 levels of comically angry.
My experience with modern is that the tier 1 and 2 players are a lot rarer than the online world lets on. Most people I played with tended to play slower decks than the typical modern meta implies simply because the games are more enjoyable that way. Winning fast on turn 3-5 with Affinity might be fun for some people, but it tends to be more like a one sided kind of thing.
I think the last four guys I played were using these decks:
1) Arby's Goblins.
2) Green Devotion / Nykthos.
3) Jund (it was a semi cut down version since he didn't have the cash for all the liliana and goyf. I think we just let him proxy the missing ones.)
4) UWx Control.
I was using my spirits deck at the time (which I haven't kept up to date online...).
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
These replies have all really alleviated the fears I had about getting into the format, thank you!
I've already netdecked one of Saffron's budget moderns, so I'll be taking that to as many modern events as possible and trying to get a feel of the decks. With any luck, I'll eventually put together something of my own, something I can be proud of.
I'll share it here when that time comes.
Which one? Does it have an upgrade path?
Welcome to the format. I abandoned standard for modern in November 2016, and I can literally count on one hand the number of Fridays since that I haven't played modern.
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Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Here is the thing about brewing in Modern... it can work. However, very often there is not much room for BUDGET brewing, which is very different.
I followed a thread for a long time that was a brew based around Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. It was an awesomely cool brew... which retailed for $1300 thanks to Liliana, Bob and Tarmogoyf, plus Abzan lands and Life from the Loam. I believe the OP even made Day 2 of a GP with it, so it had success. It was a brew, but not budget.
Similarly, there wa a deck that beat me at SCG Philadelphia built aroun Griselbrand, Kiki-Jiki and As Foretold. All told, MTG Goldifish had the price tag at $1350. A brew, but not budget.
Also, to the OP, I was once in your shoes. I’m a Johnny/Spike mix, and when I got to Modern, I spent forever trying new combo decks (borrowed) until I found my sweet mistress Living End. Now I jam that 60% of the time (and always at the big tournaments), while I continuously keep it fresh with various other decks in rotation.
Keep experimenting with T2 combo decks until one speaks to you, and then make it your own. You can go far in Modern that way.
Id say if youre new, you cant brew a good deck
Card pool of modern is huge, its hard to find those unique pieces to make a perfect list on new idea that can compete
Also you need to know what to expect from opposing field to not waste time on bad idea
But you can try
basically if your deck is not a control or value midrange, you aim to win on turn 4 consistently (t4 super consistently like 80% or some t3 wins, some t4 wins and some t5-t6 wins) provided your oppponent doesnt disrupt you.
You need to know how your deck matches up against aggro, control, combo
then playtest it. It can look good on paper but modern is strong, it has discard, counterspells, great combos, graveyard shenanigans, tarmogoyfs, burn, prisons and many more. Most likely your deck will beat some but too many things will be too hard.
But there are always new decks in modern. Humans were a noob brew before Ixalan, B/R Hollow One didnt exist not long ago, KCI combo was tier4. Summer Titan was available long before it was dominant. Skred won a gp out of nowhere (well t4 deck). As you can see most of the times new decks spawn with new sets bringing missing pieces to skyrocket a list. But sometimes old lists can be tuned enough to beat current metagame.
So I want to try brewing in modern, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
...
So just how high is the power level here compared to standard? Is there any room for rogue decks here? Or will the local modern events just eat me alive if I bring anything less than a tier 1 netdeck?
I don't see how power-level has anything to do with whether brews can succeed or not.
The hardest part of brewing is not coming up with a decklist. It is making sure you are not playing a worse-version of something. The brew needs to be sitting on the N-dimensional "possibility frontier" and not beneath it. A viable brew is anything sitting on the possibility frontier, waiting for the right metagame to take the whole tournament. I say N-dimensional, because there so many ways to win in modern, other than 20 points of creature damage. Why is that hard? Because N is a big number in modern. There are many ways to win other than 20 points of combat damage.
Consequently, there are 50+ viable decks, each waiting for the right metagame for them to become optimal. A tier-1 deck is just a deck that is optimal more frequently because the optimal metagame appears more frequently. All serious decks sit on the frontier. The rest are garbage.
If it's that fast a meta, then I'm kinda worried all my johnny combos will just be blitzed down before I get to do anything, and here I thought that this would be a format that allowed more creativity than standard. But a guy at my lgs told me that maybe 1 card a set sees any modern play. That sounds like, REALLY stale.
So just how high is the power level here compared to standard? Is there any room for rogue decks here? Or will the local modern events just eat me alive if I bring anything less than a tier 1 netdeck?
But if you want to win, a lot of brews won't cut it. But then, every tier one deck was a brew once, so...
that said there are a LOT of competitive decks in modern, and rogue brews can be successful by doing something offbeat but surrounding it with powerful cards for that type of shell. in fact that is usually how new decks are found.
for instance you could play a less powerful tribal deck, but bolster it with good removal and collected company
the 'critical turn' for modern is typically seen as turn 4. so if you are not presenting something meaningful or interacting with your opponent substantially by then you arent likely to succeed.
the number of modern playables per standard set is way higher than 1. it isnt uncommon to see 5-10, or even more in some cases. what you wont see are cards that compete with format staples that shape the format. for example lightning bolt, thoughtseize, or aether vial. however 2 of the best decks right now (humans and hollow one) only exist because of cards from hour of devastation and ixalan.
check out the sub forums to see what decks are out there. best of luck.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)honestly, modern is a mix. the power level (and complexity) is a significant cut above standard, but it's definitely not as extreme as you've been led to believe. Modern is almost the home of rogue decks these days. the number of new cards which impact Modern is actually pretty high. What you usually don't see is those new cards outright supplanting the mega pillars of the format such as tarmogoyf. However, the metagame of Modern always swings around a bit after a new set-release as things balance out, and cards such as fatal push, as foretold, hollow one and kitesail freebooter can spawn whole decks out of nowhere or up-end the format entirely for months.
modern decks on the whole tend to utilise a lot of synergy rather than raw power. this is true for all the major archetypes. even aggro decks often have a synergistic combo-esque element i.e. burning-tree emissary+reckless bushwhacker. the best decks right now are probably as follows, but it changes frequently:
Humans
Affinity
Hollow One
Jund
humans and affinity are synergy-based aggro decks that use mostly small creatures (e.g. champion of the parish and vault skirge). Humans overcomes this issue because their creatures are disruptive (e.g. kitesail freebooter) and therefore able to pick apart opposing decks while presenting a fairly quick clock. Affinity overcomes the tiny creature problem (e.g. ornithopter) by playing cards like cranial plating and arcbound ravager.
Hollow One is a new deck and is a mix of aggro/combo. It's a slow aggro deck, but a couple of synergistic combo elements allow the deck to put down very aggressive starts every few games which boosts its overall win % by a reasonable amount. it's currently quite popular and some have called it the best deck in modern (debatable! but i can see why they'd say it for sure).
Jund is a slower, midrange deck that plays lots of cheap removal and ways to disrupt an opponent's hand. It leverages this advantage by playing the most efficient cheap threats in magic, such as tarmogoyf. it keeps players in topdeck mode with liliana of the veil and out-advantages opposing topdecks by having man-lands such as raging ravine and card advantage from cards like dark confidant. It recently got a boost from bloodbraid elf, which was banned for a few years and is now legal again. Jund is the only deck on this quick breakdown which favours card power over synergy.
New decks crop up all the time, and the metagame is always shifting around, so it's the opposite of stale. In fact, this actually freaks some people out:
- many modern players assume modern is this hugely stable format where decks maintain a roughly equivalent status in the metagame all the time. In fact, decks swing in and out of popularity on a regular basis in predictable cycles, but it doesn't stop a paranoid vocal part of the community from calling for bans like crazed maniacs every time a new deck swims up to the top tier for a month or so. keep an eye out for this, it's both funny and infuriating.
the modern metagame (to roll with my point above) varies cycles of about a month. most decks in modern float around being visible but rarely win anything outright. That's modern in a nutshell. Expect to see a wide variety of decks when you play, but don't expect them to consistently stay at the top. As soon as one deck does well, everything shifts subtly to beat it, and the cycle continues. What's 'the best' and 'banworthy' right now will be mid-tier reasonableness in a month or two. Rogue or fringe decks put up results all the time, even winning GP level events. in amongst this variation, there are a few stalwart decks which do a great job of always being baseline playable. Abzan/Jund (one of them, at least) is a good example of this. there's always a playable midrange deck, although which one does change over time. Tron and affinity are other examples - never busted, just always there. Lower down the tier-roster we have decks like Merfolk, which while always there and baseline playable is rarely if ever top-tier. decks like that are great for local events and as a rogue contender for some larger tournaments.
format speed:
the format of modern is fast, but not really fast in the sense that you've been led to believe. Mainly it's fast in the sense that you always need to have done something meaningful by turn three, to either a) interact with your opponent and stall what they're doing or b) get aggressive.
what that means isn't perhaps as intense as you suggested in your above post. your disruption could be as little as lightning bolt or an inquisition of kozilek, and that's usually enough to give you a nice start if your gameplan is to lightly disrupt and then beat down your opponent with value creatures such as grim flayer or snapcaster mage. it's rare for decks to outright win on turn three or four, but it does happen if you can't interact with them somehow. mainly though, you'll be seeing aggressive decks (either combo or aggro) winning around turn 5. Most combos in modern rely on creatures in some form, so creature removal tends to be at a premium in the format overall. for instance, devoted druid and vizier of remedies gives you infinite G, which is a popular combo from the last six months or so. hollow one uses burning inquiry to drop an early 4/4 or two. that's a pseudo combo which is also remedied by decent creature removal. I could go on, but you get the idea.
the best removal spells in modern are these:
two and three mana options are played far less, but do see occasional play if the deck wants it (i.e. abrupt decay and kolaghan's command both see reasonable play)
at Modern tournaments, you generally see most opponents rocking something from the top 2 tiers of Modern. That's pretty broad (around 80 decks overall) and you'll certainly see historic/new/rogue/fringe decks with some regularity, but it's generally the norm to see most opponents playing something with a proven record in the format. more competitive players will switch around between what's "tier 1" so keeping an eye on those can give you a hint on what to expect. There's usually some kind of 'new hotness' floating around in modern, and there'll always be a chunk of players building and testing these new decks. keeping abreast of the modern news will keep you prepared for this. on a local level, players often get known for playing a specific deck, so "the storm guy" etc. This is actually a really great part of modern and allows for conversations and a sense of community as people master their archetype or even switch around between different ones.
there's a few 'controversial' decks in modern. for the most part, these decks are mid-tier reasonable decks that have been floating around for some time and occasionally appear in a top-8 or something. They slide in and out of popularity, and it's great that these decks are able to exist because it allows more people to express themselves through their own playstyle. some people just love to hate them though. Tron is one such deck. On the face of it, it's a completely reasonable ramp deck and plays big colourless cards to take over, from about turn 3-4 depending on the draw (e.g. karn liberated). it's pretty good against the slower disruptive decks, but poor against fast aggro and combo. it does beat up on slower and jankier brews something terrible, so it makes sense that a certain proportion of players would dislike playing against it. Another such deck is lantern control. Lantern is... well it's absolutely miserable to play against, but as a deck it's a fascinating clockwork arrangement of tiny insignificant pieces. it uses lantern of insight and codex shredder to manipulate what their opponent gets to draw, denying them threats and answers and usually just giving them lots of lands. it stops creatures with ensnaring bridge, and wins by milling the opponent out with multiple shredders. it's a slow painful way to lose, but the design of the deck itself is brilliant and inspired.
keep an eye out for vocal and hateful players who rail on specific strategies. you'd be wise to just ignore them, honestly. play what you want!
the long and short is that modern is hands down the most diverse format in magic. It rivals and arguably surpasses Legacy in terms of complexity and 'amount of play' to the format (although of course, the character and overall 'feeling' of both formats is quite different). It's Wizards' most popular format in terms of bringing in audiences when large events put up livestreams, it allows you to master a pet deck. If you are honest and logical about how to build for the Modern format, it's also a brewer's haven (although as a large competitive format, it definitely punishes shoddy kitchen-table brewing). You'll frequently see people playing wild and wacky decks you've not seen for years, or ever, and you'll also get plenty of opportunity to play against top tier strategies.
by quite a few metrics, Modern is currently the most significant competitive format, and it's incredibly rewarding. What it requires from players though (if you want to succeed) is the ability to take a step back and realise you have much to learn. even the most seasoned pro players enter into modern self-assured by their superior magic-playing ability only to get trashed by people who have 1000+ reps with their pet elves deck or whatever. as a result, modern does get somewhat of a bad rep from a certain part of the magic community. usual complaints are "it's too high variance" and "it's too uninteractive". These comments don't look at the big picture and fail to explain how the same modern-invested players consistently do really well in the format, even playing wildly unfavoured decks. What those comments do show rather clearly is that even some of the best magic players in the world can be a bit stumped by modern when they first get into the format. That's a lesson to be humble. Playing Modern and doing so consistently well is a pretty big step-up in terms of developing your magic oeuvre, and it takes reps and time to properly get to grips with such a broad format. It's super fun, engaging, challenging and complex but it's a steep learning curve if you are going to be rocking tournaments and want to be hitting top-8s and stuff.
oh and if you care about financial aspects, in the long-term modern is cheaper to play than standard (no rotations).
if i had to give any parting advice, it would be the following:
- research and familiarise yourself with the broad swathe of top tier decks in modern. this forum is a reasonable place to start, and mtggoldfish.com is another. just googling a deck name is often enough to find decent resources. look at top 32s and Day-2 metagames from recent GPs for an idea of what the format looks like overall (ignore top-8s if you want to understand a metagame, they are a highly variable snapshot and never representative of the larger picture).
- when starting to play, go for a proven deck of some kind. doesn't have to be tier 1, just something that's seen a reasonable amount of play. There are so many to choose from you'll find something you like. Check out forums and articles on the deck and get to grips with it. from there you'll learn more about the format at large, and some of the considerations which you'd completely miss as a brand new player to the format.
- don't enter into modern expecting to be able to brew new decks for the format. it just won't work. Learn about the format first, get some games under your belt and a good grasp of what's possible and what isn't. Some decks in modern seem weird and unintuitive, but work because of the nature of Modern (lantern control is an example).
- try not to skimp on your manabases. most proven decks have very refined and carefully crafted manabases, and it's far more important in Modern than it is in standard to get this bit right. there's a few corners you can cut (you'll find these out the more you research) but overall that's a mistake a lot of players make when transitioning to standard (at least, for a while). worth mentioning - once you've got modern staple lands like fetches and shocks, keep 'em. those guys are not for trade. there is so much overlap in their usage in Modern that nearly every deck wants some number of them. having a decent selection of modern staple lands will negate most of the cost of trading or buying into a new deck as well. so if you stock up on lands, switching around between decks becomes fairly easy (for the most part).
- have fun, find other modern players and talk/share ideas about the format on the regular. Modern is very much a communal affair and you won't get far playing lone wolf, trying to solve anything in splendid isolation. most of all PLAY. get in the reps. learn and learn some more.
if you want to improve your competitive edge in constructed, I can't think of a better format.
take it easy bud.
For those scary things you heard about modern, they can happen like that, but that is not neccessarily the case all or even in most of the times. As stated before, there are some critical turns where decks do what they want to do and that is faster than in standard for sure but not always around turn 4. it is an average time where things happen.
Also even if a deck is capable of doing crazy things in the first turns you don't run into them all the time. The decks here are diverse much more than in standard and this is why some brews can steal games or even some local tournaments. I also want to come up with decks that are in this niche but are competitive. But that also depends on where you play. Local tournaments or playgroups allow a lot more, but expect a much harder, more unforgiving field if you go to greater tournaments qualifiers or something.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
There's a reason people like "seth, probably better known as saffron olive" pretty much only play modern, and that's because there's so much to do and learn.
Legacy, while amazing, can't hold a candle to the variety of modern, and that's why I'm still in love with the format and getting taken to school years after building my first modern deck.
If you have a friendly playgroup who also dabbles in the format, it's a pretty nice place and a fantastic card pool from which to discover and learn new decks and the complexities of magic. Start small and work your way up =)
Modern games are full of technical play (just look at mishra's bauble!!) . And some decks are definitely harder to pilot than others. Even within an archetype like aggro or control there may be ten or so different decks which operate under this banner and provide different play experiences.
Maybe it's worth grabbing a few friends together and proxying a bit of a modern gauntlet with a selection of decks you find interesting. Don't over-focus on the idea of something supposedly being the best. In a few weeks something else will hold that mantle. Find something you like and practice practice practice. Then you'll notice opportunities to change and tweak that deck to your personal taste. Go for it! Modern is as much about expression as it is about skill.
Enjoy it =) modern is intense but it's such a great learning opportunity and fun format I'd be hard pressed to find any excuses to dissuade you from trying it out.
There is more creativity than Standard due to the larger card pool. For example, let's say you want to play Hollow One. You'll find more success in Modern than Standard because you can play cards like Faithless Looting, Street Wraith and Burning Inquiry, all of which let you drop Hollow One (maybe even multiples!) on turn 1. And as you can expect, a turn 1 4/4 is really hard to deal with. It's a top tier deck now.
As a fellow Johnny I'll let you in on two big challenges combo decks are facing. The first are maindeck hatebears, i.e. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben from Humans and Eidolon of the Great Revel from Burn. Those two decks are popular and they will crap all over your combo if it involves playing multiple spells per turn. The second is cheap removal, namely Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, and to a lesser extent Path to Exile. "Fair" decks play these cards to kill opposing creatures so they can attack or stop taking damage from the creature. However, if your combo involves a creature, they can also use removal to disrupt your combo. In the past combo decks dodged this problem because they had engines that weren't creatures (e.g. Pyromancer Ascension in Storm, Summer Bloom in Amulet), but PA has been replaced by Baral, Chief of Compliance and Bloom with Sakura-Tribe Scout, making it easier for fair decks to interact with them. Even the most combo-riffic card from Dominaria (Skirk Prospector) is a creature. And yes, combo Goblins gets crapped on by Thalia and Eidolon.
That's an exaggeration for most sets (although it was REALLY true for Rivals of Ixalan. The one card that saw any play was Dire Fleet Daredevil).
The power level is a lot higher. All of the cards that have been banned in recent Standard are complete jokes in Modern (Reflector Mage is a decent creature though, and some people still play the Felidar Guardian + Saheeli Rai combo but it's not very successful).
You can play rogue decks. MTGO decklists, while much-maligned, show that it's possible to win 5 matches in a row with some pretty creative decks. However, I recommend against brewing decks just for the sake of it until you have a really good grasp of the other decks in the format. You need to know what the fair decks can do to stop you, and you need to know how your deck compares to the other unfair decks in terms of speed, consistency, and what kinds of hate it folds to.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
If you stumble against Burn, you've taken 20 before you know it. If you stumble against UW Control, they will have a mana edge, card edge, and be in control of the game. If you stumble against Lantern, they have a Lantern, a mill rock, and an Ensnaring Bridge staring you down. If you stumble against other decks like Hollow One, you're dead on turn 3. Every deck punishes poor draws, mulligans, or bad keeps from an opponent in their own way.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I've already netdecked one of Saffron's budget moderns, so I'll be taking that to as many modern events as possible and trying to get a feel of the decks. With any luck, I'll eventually put together something of my own, something I can be proud of.
I'll share it here when that time comes.
Yeah, I've built decks for modern that are just casual brews and have won tournament games against T1 decks, it's just that how consistent someone can pull off a win is a big deal with the GP grinders so they basically have to go T2 and T1. I still love my undying ancestral vengeance deck that I brewed up a few years ago. I should probably go and revisit that one since they added so many tools recently.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That's true of any competitive format. Like legacy though, modern decks in the top tiers get more time and have more resources to become refined and improved.
At fnm level you will probably be ok iterating on any number of fringe decks and still have a good shot at competitiveness.
At a GP main event, it's another story entirely. Bring your most scientific method and your best game-face to these events or crash out early. These are the top of the top for most players.
If you're playing casually with friends, modern can just be a sensible cutoff point and banlist to use to keep things fun.
Modern's a pretty good Polymorph. It can be many things to many people, and its versatility is its strength. You can go into modern to 'settle' from standard while still getting that kick out of a changeable format, because of how much it cycles and swings about. One week everyone's complaining about bogles, a few weeks later it's all but forgotten. Meanwhile you can plug away with your favourite deck and enjoy watching other decks fall in and out of favour, tweaking your sideboard as the metagame develops.
I'm almost certain the people brewing in the budget forum have a better grasp on deck construction thanks to the limitations they are working in than the majority of players playing T1->T2 decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Lol. Pretty sure most people who play tournament magic are perfectly capable of brewing a good budget deck. It really isn't that complicated, especially now that most of the math is publicly available online and databases of cards are readily available. It might have been a bit tougher in '98, I'll concede, but these days it's actually pretty easy to build a reasonably cheap and tier 2 level deck.
I'm actually not referring to career type MTG tournament grinders that we get to see make the top 16-32 lists. What I'm referring to are the masses; the people that see the results and then buy into the hype: This is the bulk of the players that play modern magic. In general, I find people who play modern are aged players that collect cards and piece together expensive decks. They may know the deck really well, but they generally aren't deck brewers.
Modern players are also a lot more jovial from my own experience than most standard players that do the same type of thing. I mean, if you sat down and played a game vs IdSurge or purklefluff it's probably going to be a good experience.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Isn't FoodChainGoblins on this list as well?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yes, you are on the list FoodChainGoblins.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think there are definitely more of the mtgsal crew on that list. But yeah the people in your environment make modern an easier format to play in, even if games are a struggle.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Again, not wanting to brew, and not being capable of brewing are two very different things. I'd bet you that your average modern player can build a decent budget version of a cheaper linear deck, like Kiln Fiend or Bogles. The complicated brewing would be a functional budget control deck. I guess you could do a Mystical Teachings/Peer Through The Depths core, or with Spreading Seas/Field of Ruin.
Yeah. This has been my experience, with one caveat: There are some grinders who are really, really focused on having the best deck in the format, and they can be pretty unpleasant to be around when their deck loses to variance. Standard has more of them, but there seems to be a circle of Modern Specialists who have very pointed ideas about what can work in Modern... and when it doesn't, they get downright boogie2988 levels of comically angry.
I think the last four guys I played were using these decks:
1) Arby's Goblins.
2) Green Devotion / Nykthos.
3) Jund (it was a semi cut down version since he didn't have the cash for all the liliana and goyf. I think we just let him proxy the missing ones.)
4) UWx Control.
I was using my spirits deck at the time (which I haven't kept up to date online...).
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Which one? Does it have an upgrade path?
Welcome to the format. I abandoned standard for modern in November 2016, and I can literally count on one hand the number of Fridays since that I haven't played modern.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I followed a thread for a long time that was a brew based around Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. It was an awesomely cool brew... which retailed for $1300 thanks to Liliana, Bob and Tarmogoyf, plus Abzan lands and Life from the Loam. I believe the OP even made Day 2 of a GP with it, so it had success. It was a brew, but not budget.
Similarly, there wa a deck that beat me at SCG Philadelphia built aroun Griselbrand, Kiki-Jiki and As Foretold. All told, MTG Goldifish had the price tag at $1350. A brew, but not budget.
Also, to the OP, I was once in your shoes. I’m a Johnny/Spike mix, and when I got to Modern, I spent forever trying new combo decks (borrowed) until I found my sweet mistress Living End. Now I jam that 60% of the time (and always at the big tournaments), while I continuously keep it fresh with various other decks in rotation.
Keep experimenting with T2 combo decks until one speaks to you, and then make it your own. You can go far in Modern that way.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
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Card pool of modern is huge, its hard to find those unique pieces to make a perfect list on new idea that can compete
Also you need to know what to expect from opposing field to not waste time on bad idea
But you can try
basically if your deck is not a control or value midrange, you aim to win on turn 4 consistently (t4 super consistently like 80% or some t3 wins, some t4 wins and some t5-t6 wins) provided your oppponent doesnt disrupt you.
You need to know how your deck matches up against aggro, control, combo
then playtest it. It can look good on paper but modern is strong, it has discard, counterspells, great combos, graveyard shenanigans, tarmogoyfs, burn, prisons and many more. Most likely your deck will beat some but too many things will be too hard.
But there are always new decks in modern. Humans were a noob brew before Ixalan, B/R Hollow One didnt exist not long ago, KCI combo was tier4. Summer Titan was available long before it was dominant. Skred won a gp out of nowhere (well t4 deck). As you can see most of the times new decks spawn with new sets bringing missing pieces to skyrocket a list. But sometimes old lists can be tuned enough to beat current metagame.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I don't see how power-level has anything to do with whether brews can succeed or not.
The hardest part of brewing is not coming up with a decklist. It is making sure you are not playing a worse-version of something. The brew needs to be sitting on the N-dimensional "possibility frontier" and not beneath it. A viable brew is anything sitting on the possibility frontier, waiting for the right metagame to take the whole tournament. I say N-dimensional, because there so many ways to win in modern, other than 20 points of creature damage. Why is that hard? Because N is a big number in modern. There are many ways to win other than 20 points of combat damage.
Consequently, there are 50+ viable decks, each waiting for the right metagame for them to become optimal. A tier-1 deck is just a deck that is optimal more frequently because the optimal metagame appears more frequently. All serious decks sit on the frontier. The rest are garbage.