Not really feeling Shalai. In theory she stops combo decks from killing you, but those decks have ways around her. If she doesn't stop them from comboing off, they'll just generate all the mana and draw all the cards they want, find their Echoing Truth or whatever, remove her, then end you.
Giving yourself hexproof to stop discard is nice, provided you do it on turn 0. On turn 4, not so much. They'd have ripped apart your hand by then and what you'd need would be a 2-for-1 or CA engine to make up for the lost cards, not a 4-mana 3/4.
She forces your opponent to have an extra piece of removal to get rid of something. Then again, so does Spellskite or Selfless Spirit, and those cost less mana. Let's say you have 2 removals and your opponent has a Selfless Spirit and a Devoted Druid that you really want to kill; you'll kill the Spirit first, then the Druid (see PV's Rule). This sequence of plays doesn't change if you replace Spirit with Shalai. The one thing that could matter is if your removals can deal with Spirit but not Shalai (e.g. Fatal Push without revolt), but I would weigh Spirit's lower mana cost as more advantageous than blanking removals in rare circumstances.
its just a piece. no one is looking at the card as a infallible hoser against combo, targetted removal, or discard.
what is promising about shalai is that it is disruption attached to a very relevant body. a 3/4 flier dodges a good portion of removal, can win in combat with many threats in the format, and helps you close out the game. all things that those other cards you listed are poor at.
for example you mentioned storm just playing through it. while that is true technically, you could also kill their mana creature, counter a spell, then drop shalai. sure there exists a sequence of cards to fight through this, but their options are limited and are forced to peel out while being clocked.
there will be times where you play it, it gets killed by cheap removal coupled with a follow up play, in which case you just ate it in tempo. there will also be other cases where you play it, their removal doesnt line up, and suddenly they are way behind.
if you just assume that your opponent 'has it all' and your own draw was mediocre, then you were probably going to lose that game regardless of a few card differences in your deck composition.
at the very least i think the card is worth spending time to test with.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
ETBing tapped and providing only one color of mana is a really bad combination and makes me doubt they'll see play. They're no Valakuts, that's for sure. I like the green one the most out of the whole cycle, only because it's in the Primeval Titan color.
I could see Memorial to Folly as a 1-of in GBx Loam. It's not perfect, but it is a way to repeatedly rebuy creatures, which considering the next best land for that is Haunted Fengraf...
yeah untapping lands has usually been some dangerous territory. it looks pretty tame though. u tron came to mind as well.
dominaria seems to be pushing a little more power in standard. better counters, better mana dorks, better removal.
Kaldesh is not long for this world...so they got have at least one set packing the power I suppose. I suppose we might double up if we go direct to Return to Return to Ravnica but I think we have at least one non core set between us and that.
Dont get me wrong I love one mana cantrips, but what advantages does this have to Oath?
It bins itself for your delirium or delve cards. Oath of Nissa doesn't unless you have a pair of them.
When you're playing a pure combo deck you can't pass up cantrips just because one is worse than the other. Sleight of Hand is generally inferior to Serum Visions but Storm and Ad Nauseam play 4 of each. If you need that many cantrips, you'll play them all. I'd say it's pretty crucial for the Vizier deck because it's basically an 11 land deck (Hall of the Bandit Lord ETBs tapped and can't cast cantrips). Easy cuts would be 2 Weird Harvest, 1 Conjurer's Bauble, 1 Deadshot Minotaur.
To be honest I don't think the all-in Vizier deck is that good though. It shifts the speed bottleneck from waiting 1 turn for Devoted Druid to waiting 1 turn for Hall of the Bandit Lord instead. It's still a "dies to removal" deck. So I agree that it will not see a lot of play in Modern, but at the same time I feel like it deserves a passing mention because it's a good card in a bad deck. Kind of like Oath of Nissa itself.
Anyone see Wizard's attempt to "fix" Cabal Coffers? I will call it Crappy Coffers, I think Shrine to Nykthos is just better in Mono-Black; but ramp in colors other than green always draws some second looks.
Kind of wish Cabal Stronghold wasn't so expensive to activate, otherwise it would help make mono-black devotion a thing.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Kind of wish Cabal Stronghold wasn't so expensive to activate, otherwise it would help make mono-black devotion a thing.
Yep, me too. I am hoping we get some sort of playable activation cost reducing permanent one of these days to make cards like this more viable.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Kind of wish Cabal Stronghold wasn't so expensive to activate, otherwise it would help make mono-black devotion a thing.
They should have just reprinted Cabal Coffers.. so that people can bring their Torment Cabal Coffers to Standard FNM again.
Money. It's all about money...
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
its just a piece. no one is looking at the card as a infallible hoser against combo, targetted removal, or discard.
what is promising about shalai is that it is disruption attached to a very relevant body. a 3/4 flier dodges a good portion of removal, can win in combat with many threats in the format, and helps you close out the game. all things that those other cards you listed are poor at.
for example you mentioned storm just playing through it. while that is true technically, you could also kill their mana creature, counter a spell, then drop shalai. sure there exists a sequence of cards to fight through this, but their options are limited and are forced to peel out while being clocked.
there will be times where you play it, it gets killed by cheap removal coupled with a follow up play, in which case you just ate it in tempo. there will also be other cases where you play it, their removal doesnt line up, and suddenly they are way behind.
if you just assume that your opponent 'has it all' and your own draw was mediocre, then you were probably going to lose that game regardless of a few card differences in your deck composition.
at the very least i think the card is worth spending time to test with.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I can see her in some sort of Chord of Calling or Eldritch Evolution list. Unfortunately she doesn't play well with CoCo
Glory: Foundry of the Consuls
War: Encroaching Wastes
Unity: Blighted Cataract
Folly has Disentomb as its non-mana ability, and Unity has Commune with Nature's. That's 3 mana (and the land itself) for an effect that costs 1 mana on a spell.
ETBing tapped and providing only one color of mana is a really bad combination and makes me doubt they'll see play. They're no Valakuts, that's for sure. I like the green one the most out of the whole cycle, only because it's in the Primeval Titan color.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Isn't it strictly worse than Oath of Nissa though?
Dont get me wrong I love one mana cantrips, but what advantages does this have to Oath?
Redundancy. 8 cantrips are way better than 4. There might be some other non-blue, green decks that want this redundancy too,
Unwind
2U
Instant
Counter target noncreature spell. Untap up to three lands.
not playable on the surface but interesting.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Yes but the more of these you put in the deck, the greater the fail rate because neither Oath nor Impulse can grab themselves or each other
Seeing as how little play Oath already sees, I do believe this will not make it past standard
Seems playable in U-Tron I would think. And if you can get the Blue in Nyx?
Still seems like counters will be good in Standard.
dominaria seems to be pushing a little more power in standard. better counters, better mana dorks, better removal.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Kaldesh is not long for this world...so they got have at least one set packing the power I suppose. I suppose we might double up if we go direct to Return to Return to Ravnica but I think we have at least one non core set between us and that.
When you're playing a pure combo deck you can't pass up cantrips just because one is worse than the other. Sleight of Hand is generally inferior to Serum Visions but Storm and Ad Nauseam play 4 of each. If you need that many cantrips, you'll play them all. I'd say it's pretty crucial for the Vizier deck because it's basically an 11 land deck (Hall of the Bandit Lord ETBs tapped and can't cast cantrips). Easy cuts would be 2 Weird Harvest, 1 Conjurer's Bauble, 1 Deadshot Minotaur.
To be honest I don't think the all-in Vizier deck is that good though. It shifts the speed bottleneck from waiting 1 turn for Devoted Druid to waiting 1 turn for Hall of the Bandit Lord instead. It's still a "dies to removal" deck. So I agree that it will not see a lot of play in Modern, but at the same time I feel like it deserves a passing mention because it's a good card in a bad deck. Kind of like Oath of Nissa itself.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Spirits
i guess we know what card damping sphere is supposed to hose lol
edit: yeah just realized it says basic swamps. definitely not playable.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yep, me too. I am hoping we get some sort of playable activation cost reducing permanent one of these days to make cards like this more viable.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
They should have just reprinted Cabal Coffers.. so that people can bring their Torment Cabal Coffers to Standard FNM again.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Money. It's all about money...
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread