4 tron, 1 rg eldrazi, 2 abzan, 1 jeskai control into the top 8.
Bad, big mana top 8.
Does it really matter? The format that exists in this tournament is going to be completely different tomorrow. I have a hard time believing that BBE and JTMS are NOT going to shake up the format. This GP is borderline useless IMO. I think WotC missed out not adjusting the unban date...
4 tron, 1 rg eldrazi, 2 abzan, 1 jeskai control into the top 8.
Bad, big mana top 8.
Does it really matter? The format that exists in this tournament is going to be completely different tomorrow. I have a hard time believing that BBE and JTMS are NOT going to shake up the format. This GP is borderline useless IMO. I think WotC missed out not adjusting the unban date...
The kinds of decks that get better as a result of Jace and BBE get stomped by Tron. More of those decks inevitably means more Tron.
But at the end of the day, Ancient Stirrings is still the most powerful cantrip in Modern.
4 tron, 1 rg eldrazi, 2 abzan, 1 jeskai control into the top 8.
Bad, big mana top 8.
Does it really matter? The format that exists in this tournament is going to be completely different tomorrow. I have a hard time believing that BBE and JTMS are NOT going to shake up the format. This GP is borderline useless IMO. I think WotC missed out not adjusting the unban date...
The wait for the unban is worse for the viewers, but better for the players. Having to scramble to get a new deck together due to the bannings in less than a week is majorly frustrating. That said, it seems to me that all of these problems could have been solved by announcing the unbans one week later (i.e. tomorrow) so they would be announced after the Grand Prix.
It would also provide the benefit of a lower period of time between Jace's price spike and the reprinting.
4 tron, 1 rg eldrazi, 2 abzan, 1 jeskai control into the top 8.
Bad, big mana top 8.
Does it really matter? The format that exists in this tournament is going to be completely different tomorrow. I have a hard time believing that BBE and JTMS are NOT going to shake up the format. This GP is borderline useless IMO. I think WotC missed out not adjusting the unban date...
The kinds of decks that get better as a result of Jace and BBE get stomped by Tron. More of those decks inevitably means more Tron.
But at the end of the day, Ancient Stirrings is still the most powerful cantrip in Modern.
Except that hasn't really bore out in practice. As KTK among others have pointed out, Tron has been kept in check largely by the linear decks this forum loves to complain about. JTMS unbanned and Tron is a thing? Sounds like a great time to be on aggro (as an example). The meta is very cyclical with the "dreaded" Tron rarely being on the top. *also yet another B/G deck beats tron... this time not named Reid Duke*
The wait for the unban is worse for the viewers, but better for the players. Having to scramble to get a new deck together due to the bannings in less than a week is majorly frustrating. That said, it seems to me that all of these problems could have been solved by announcing the unbans one week later (i.e. tomorrow) so they would be announced after the Grand Prix.
It would also provide the benefit of a lower period of time between Jace's price spike and the reprinting.
I do get that. It would have been potentially rough for the people who have spent a good amount of time testing and preparing for the GP. I just dislike that this meta snapshot becomes obsolete so quickly.
Also all 4 Mono G Tron just lost in the Top 8 lol.
Tron has been kept in check by people not playing it near the amount they should have.
Or it isn't as good as people like to claim? Look I don't like Tron, but if it were as OP as this forum likes to claim, the results would be there. 6 Tron Decks in the top 32 indicates it was a good meta call (except none made it to the finals), but it is far from oppressive and lost to decks that are supposed "70/30" matches.
Except that hasn't really bore out in practice. As KTK among others have pointed out, Tron has been kept in check largely by the linear decks this forum loves to complain about. JTMS unbanned and Tron is a thing? Sounds like a great time to be on aggro (as an example). The meta is very cyclical with the "dreaded" Tron rarely being on the top.
The thing about the kinds of decks that beat Tron, they're either fairly inconsistent, they get banned, or they are just not fast enough to actually reliably beat them.
Except that hasn't really bore out in practice. As KTK among others have pointed out, Tron has been kept in check largely by the linear decks this forum loves to complain about. JTMS unbanned and Tron is a thing? Sounds like a great time to be on aggro (as an example). The meta is very cyclical with the "dreaded" Tron rarely being on the top.
The thing about the kinds of decks that beat Tron, they're either fairly inconsistent, they get banned, or they are just not fast enough to actually reliably beat them.
Storm, Ad Nauseaum, Burn, Aggro decks in general. They are all consistent, fast, and atm aren't banned. The idea that a well known deck is secretly this huge monster and overpowered, but that people with thousands of dollars on the line just refuse to play it for some reason is absurd.
I know too many people that have been murdering it with Tron for a couple months, including deck specialists that dumped their deck to play Tron. I don't know what "this forum likes to claim" and I don't care, honestly.
Now, believe what you want.
I mean sure, there are people who are good at playing Tron. Just like their are people good at playing Lantern Control, TitanShift, GDS, Storm, [insert deck here].
Tron isn't some uber-powerful deck that would be 100% of every Top 8 ever if "people stopped playing it simply to keep the numbers down so it wouldn't get banned" (this was a view either you, or someone else in these forums had a few months ago if I recall).
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Storm, Ad Nauseaum, Burn, Aggro decks in general. They are all consistent, fast, and atm aren't banned. The idea that a well known deck is secretly this huge monster and overpowered, but that people with thousands of dollars on the line just refuse to play it for some reason is absurd.
Tron has been kept in check by people not playing it near the amount they should have.
This just doesn't hold water. Tron is not even close to a secret best deck. It's widely regarded by many vocal players, pros, and authors as one of the most broken and iconic Modern decks. If people aren't showing up at top tables with it, it's not because it's an undiscovered secret. It's because the deck just isn't well-positioned as people clam it is. Indeed, in the recent B&R update, Wizards even described it as one of the 4 most-played decks. People know the deck is good and are playing it a lot. If they aren't succeeding and making it to the top tables, it's because metagame factors are beating them, not ignorance of Tron's true potential.
How are the ridiculous and apocalyptic predictions going? Not so well! Surprise surprise.
-Gx Tron decks in the T8? 1, and it didn't win.
-Gx Tron decks in the T32? 2 total.
-Valakut decks in the T8 and T32? 0 total.
-JTMS in the T8? 2 different decks (Grixis and Taking Turns).
-Non-JTMS blue decks in T8? 1 GDS, which everyone said was dead.
-Non-JTMS blue decks in T32? 1 UR Kiki.
-Distinct JTMS decks in T32? 6 JTMS decks, all different: UR Thing, UR Breach, Temur Midrange, UW Control, Grixis Control, Taking Turns
JTMS isn't dominating, blue decks aren't all using JTMS, JTMS isn't homogenizing blue decks, JTMS decks aren't overpowered, big mana isn't on the rise, etc. etc. As usual, the measured and analytic approach to Modern is winning out again over the sensationalist "gut feel" hyperbole.
Re: GP Lyon
LOL @ Tron losing to Abzan in the T8. LOL again @ all Trons being out in the quarterfinals. Looks like we have more datapoints of good players on midrange decks (e.g. Duke) beating the unbeatable matchup when the stakes are high.
Re: Tron hate
This wanton Tron hate needs to chill out. At this point, it's just a meme with basically no evidence to support it. If you don't like Tron and its current performances, you probably should not be playing Modern. Wizards has been extremely vocal and clear over the last year stating that the format is healthy. See October 2017 for the actual quote. See February 2018 for the unban in a healthy Modern. If you do not like Tron's prevalence in those metagame snapshots, then your vision of the format is fundamentally misaligned with Wizards'. This puts a double burden on your arguments; first, to prove that Tron is actually unhealthy, and second, to prove that Wizards' position is wrong. If you want to adopt this stance then do so, but we need to stop the one-liner anti-Tron comments as if they are gospel. They are just niche opinions by vocal, lifelong dissenters at this point.
Storm, Ad Nauseaum, Burn, Aggro decks in general. They are all consistent, fast, and atm aren't banned. The idea that a well known deck is secretly this huge monster and overpowered, but that people with thousands of dollars on the line just refuse to play it for some reason is absurd.
Except that hasn't really bore out in practice. As KTK among others have pointed out, Tron has been kept in check largely by the linear decks this forum loves to complain about. JTMS unbanned and Tron is a thing? Sounds like a great time to be on aggro (as an example). The meta is very cyclical with the "dreaded" Tron rarely being on the top.
The thing about the kinds of decks that beat Tron, they're either fairly inconsistent, they get banned, or they are just not fast enough to actually reliably beat them.
Storm, Ad Nauseaum, Burn, Aggro decks in general. They are all consistent, fast, and atm aren't banned. The idea that a well known deck is secretly this huge monster and overpowered, but that people with thousands of dollars on the line just refuse to play it for some reason is absurd.
Sure, and 6 months ago, or 3 months ago, Mardu Pyromancer didn't exist. The idea that the deck existed and people with thousands of dollars on the line refuse to play it for some reason is absurd.
It popped into existence when Gerry T had a revelation.
Yes and then when they saw it people immediately picked it up and ran with it. Pyromancer was everywhere after the PT. Tron is not an undiscovered gem though. People know what it is and it's been optimized pretty much as far as it goes.
Re: Tron hate
This wanton Tron hate needs to chill out. At this point, it's just a meme with basically no evidence to support it. If you don't like Tron and its current performances, you probably should not be playing Modern. Wizards has been extremely vocal and clear over the last year stating that the format is healthy. See October 2017 for the actual quote. See February 2018 for the unban in a healthy Modern. If you do not like Tron's prevalence in those metagame snapshots, then your vision of the format is fundamentally misaligned with Wizards'. This puts a double burden on your arguments; first, to prove that Tron is actually unhealthy, and second, to prove that Wizards' position is wrong. If you want to adopt this stance then do so, but we need to stop the one-liner anti-Tron comments as if they are gospel. They are just niche opinions by vocal, lifelong dissenters at this point.
The fact that they specifically and intentionally designed Blood Sun such that it does not hit Tron is fairly stomach-churning as far as their stance on Tron is concerned.
JTMS isn't dominating, blue decks aren't all using JTMS, JTMS isn't homogenizing blue decks, JTMS decks aren't overpowered, big mana isn't on the rise, etc. etc. As usual, the measured and analytic approach to Modern is winning out again over the sensationalist "gut feel" hyperbole.
Now I am not a person who thinks that Jace will warp the format the way the doomsayers are predicting. However I will point out we are only one week in, and with the spike in price for Jace there are arguably a large amount of people who are not going to want to play him at the moment, especially with a reprint imminent in Masters 25. I`d be willing to revisit this point against in a few months after Masters 25 is out, the price of Jace has dropped, and we`ve had more than just 1 week`s worth of results.
Re: Tron hate
This wanton Tron hate needs to chill out. At this point, it's just a meme with basically no evidence to support it. If you don't like Tron and its current performances, you probably should not be playing Modern. Wizards has been extremely vocal and clear over the last year stating that the format is healthy. See October 2017 for the actual quote. See February 2018 for the unban in a healthy Modern. If you do not like Tron's prevalence in those metagame snapshots, then your vision of the format is fundamentally misaligned with Wizards'. This puts a double burden on your arguments; first, to prove that Tron is actually unhealthy, and second, to prove that Wizards' position is wrong. If you want to adopt this stance then do so, but we need to stop the one-liner anti-Tron comments as if they are gospel. They are just niche opinions by vocal, lifelong dissenters at this point.
The fact that they specifically and intentionally designed Blood Sun such that it does not hit Tron is fairly stomach-churning as far as their stance on Tron is concerned.
Did they say they had Tron in mind when they designed it? Do you have a link?
Did they say they had Tron in mind when they designed it? Do you have a link?
I don't a have link, but in the article where they talked about the card designs in Rivals, it was mentioned that they wanted to make Blood Sun so that it couldn't turn off the Tron lands.
ID: I was wondering if this can cost two for Standard, but I worry about shutting off fetch lands in other formats.
ID: I doubt this is doing anything in Standard at three mana. If we need this to answer Deserts and double-faced lands, it probably needs to cost less, cantrip, or have some additional utility.
BH: Now cantrips.
ROSEJ: I'm surprised this doesn't just stop activated abilities. Really want to turn off Urborg and Eye of Ugin?
DEL: Doesn't actually turn off Urborg. Type-changing is in an earlier layer than ability-removing effects.
ID: And this lets Urza lands still tap for multiple mana?
BH: We're aware that this doesn't turn off Urborg, and fine with people who play Modern needing to learn that. We prefer not dirtying up this card.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Did they say they had Tron in mind when they designed it? Do you have a link?
I don't a have link, but in the article where they talked about the card designs in Rivals, it was mentioned that they wanted to make Blood Sun so that it couldn't turn off the Tron lands.
It's a curious situation, but unless we suddenly see some kind of Eldrazi Winter situation with either BBE or Jace, I just think the format is too wide now.
I DO think Twin was hurting diversity not in Blue, but in a general sense of 'end of turn 3 flash creature, are you dead' people STILL trying and seeing success with Kiki...but neither BBE, or Jace, or Tron, or even Turns has that same power.
After years now, I still think nothing would supplant Twin as the formats best.
All that is to say, without Twin, the format can cycle, there is no deck that can always be the answer, and that's probably for the best.
Jace isn't going to change that, it's just going to widen the field even more.
Did they say they had Tron in mind when they designed it? Do you have a link?
I don't a have link, but in the article where they talked about the card designs in Rivals, it was mentioned that they wanted to make Blood Sun so that it couldn't turn off the Tron lands.
ID: I was wondering if this can cost two for Standard, but I worry about shutting off fetch lands in other formats.
ID: I doubt this is doing anything in Standard at three mana. If we need this to answer Deserts and double-faced lands, it probably needs to cost less, cantrip, or have some additional utility.
BH: Now cantrips.
ROSEJ: I'm surprised this doesn't just stop activated abilities. Really want to turn off Urborg and Eye of Ugin?
DEL: Doesn't actually turn off Urborg. Type-changing is in an earlier layer than ability-removing effects.
ID: And this lets Urza lands still tap for multiple mana?
BH: We're aware that this doesn't turn off Urborg, and fine with people who play Modern needing to learn that. We prefer not dirtying up this card.
This doesn't support the claim that they made it so it doesn't turn off the Tron lands. It's just one person asking for clarification on whether it affects it or not, not a preference to not affect Tron. The way it reads, they didn't really care one way or the other about its effect on Tron, so the claim that they deliberately designed it to not affect them doesn't seem to hold water.
This doesn't support the claim that they made it so it doesn't turn off the Tron lands. It's just one person asking for clarification on whether it affects it or not, not a preference to not affect Tron. The way it reads, they didn't really care one way or the other about its effect on Tron, so the claim that they deliberately designed it to not affect them doesn't seem to hold water.
I agree with your point, I was just grabbing the context for what was being discussed.
To me, the assertion that WotC intentionally made Blood Sun not interact with Tron is a tinfoil hat level conspiracy theory, made for no other reason that to justify the thought that, "Tron is too overpowered for Modern but it isn't banned because WotC loves it for some reason."
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Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
This doesn't support the claim that they made it so it doesn't turn off the Tron lands. It's just one person asking for clarification on whether it affects it or not, not a preference to not affect Tron. The way it reads, they didn't really care one way or the other about its effect on Tron, so the claim that they deliberately designed it to not affect them doesn't seem to hold water.
I agree with your point, I was just grabbing the context for what was being discussed.
To me, the assertion that WotC intentionally made Blood Sun not interact with Tron is a tinfoil hat level conspiracy theory, made for no other reason that to justify the thought that, "Tron is too overpowered for Modern but it isn't banned because WotC loves it for some reason."
I agree that it doesn't read as if WOTC designed it specifically so it doesn't hit Tron lands. But they certainly were aware of it before finalizing the design.
I won't spend 3 seconds going through a bunch of stuff based on a random Modern challenge, sorry. Thanks for the work though.
I'm largely using the Challenge as an early datapoint showing that JTMS, in his first week of insane hype and hyperbole, probably did not destroy Modern.
As for Tron, we don't just need that one Challenge to see how the deck is fine. Look at the last 12 months of tournament/ data and Wizards statements. It's exceedingly clear that Tron is not the monster you and others make it out to be. There are mountains of data to prove this, and numerous "no changes" update to verify it. I know that you are an experienced player with lots of Modern reps, and I know you critically look at Modern pictures. You don't strike me as a Brenan DeCandio. Because of that, this one-liner Tron hate is beneath you. There is so much evidence to disprove all the Tron doomsaying. You and others need to stop it.
What makes me curious about those claiming that Tron is somehow broken is that these same people are not consistently playing Tron when it seems to be in their best interest. I mean, for me, I do feel that there may be an issue with Jace in the format, but I'm willing to wait for further data to verify this idea, and I don't plan on playing Jace if it does pan out that it's just correct. Playing Eldrazi was just correct during Eldrazi Winter, and I recognized this, but I still didn't play Eldrazi - I actually took a break from Magic during this time.
Yet, still, these same people making the claim about Gx Tron are doing neither (from what I've observed) - They aren't playing Tron, nor are they taking a break from Magic. This seems to suggest a sort of dissonance.
Not sure what the argument is, but Tron is fine. It would be painfully sad to see something banned from a deck when there are at least 3 decks clearly better than it. And yes, some players do hilariously good with the deck. Selfeisek (sp?) probably won around 70% of his matches with a "lesser" version of Mardu Reveler for quite a bit. It can be done with extremely good play and some luck, both in matchups and in the actual matches.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I just don't understand how people can hate Tron so much and clamor for Control. Like I keep saying, Tron is my primary deck. I kinda feel that it is very close to what people are looking for in a Modern control deck. it tries to stall, both try to win off of powerful lands, and both try to win off of just a few backbreaking threats. Every deck tries to make it hard to interact in a way that could stop their game plan. if you aren't doing that, it's not a good deck, period. What is the justification for being eager for a Draw-Go deck that may very well win with just manlands and hating a deck that uses strong lands in another way?
My big thing is that I can't relate to so many ban maniacs because I really only look at speed. I dislike Storm because it is too fast. I disliked Bloom because....well, fast and the Pact win just felt really cheap. I loved life during full power Jund. it was strong as hell, but it wasn't hugely FAST. idk, that's just me.
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Does it really matter? The format that exists in this tournament is going to be completely different tomorrow. I have a hard time believing that BBE and JTMS are NOT going to shake up the format. This GP is borderline useless IMO. I think WotC missed out not adjusting the unban date...
The kinds of decks that get better as a result of Jace and BBE get stomped by Tron. More of those decks inevitably means more Tron.
But at the end of the day, Ancient Stirrings is still the most powerful cantrip in Modern.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It would also provide the benefit of a lower period of time between Jace's price spike and the reprinting.
Except that hasn't really bore out in practice. As KTK among others have pointed out, Tron has been kept in check largely by the linear decks this forum loves to complain about. JTMS unbanned and Tron is a thing? Sounds like a great time to be on aggro (as an example). The meta is very cyclical with the "dreaded" Tron rarely being on the top. *also yet another B/G deck beats tron... this time not named Reid Duke*
I do get that. It would have been potentially rough for the people who have spent a good amount of time testing and preparing for the GP. I just dislike that this meta snapshot becomes obsolete so quickly.
Also all 4 Mono G Tron just lost in the Top 8 lol.
Or it isn't as good as people like to claim? Look I don't like Tron, but if it were as OP as this forum likes to claim, the results would be there. 6 Tron Decks in the top 32 indicates it was a good meta call (except none made it to the finals), but it is far from oppressive and lost to decks that are supposed "70/30" matches.
The thing about the kinds of decks that beat Tron, they're either fairly inconsistent, they get banned, or they are just not fast enough to actually reliably beat them.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Storm, Ad Nauseaum, Burn, Aggro decks in general. They are all consistent, fast, and atm aren't banned. The idea that a well known deck is secretly this huge monster and overpowered, but that people with thousands of dollars on the line just refuse to play it for some reason is absurd.
I mean sure, there are people who are good at playing Tron. Just like their are people good at playing Lantern Control, TitanShift, GDS, Storm, [insert deck here].
Tron isn't some uber-powerful deck that would be 100% of every Top 8 ever if "people stopped playing it simply to keep the numbers down so it wouldn't get banned" (this was a view either you, or someone else in these forums had a few months ago if I recall).
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This just doesn't hold water. Tron is not even close to a secret best deck. It's widely regarded by many vocal players, pros, and authors as one of the most broken and iconic Modern decks. If people aren't showing up at top tables with it, it's not because it's an undiscovered secret. It's because the deck just isn't well-positioned as people clam it is. Indeed, in the recent B&R update, Wizards even described it as one of the 4 most-played decks. People know the deck is good and are playing it a lot. If they aren't succeeding and making it to the top tables, it's because metagame factors are beating them, not ignorance of Tron's true potential.
Re: MTGO Challenge
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2018-02-18
How are the ridiculous and apocalyptic predictions going? Not so well! Surprise surprise.
-Gx Tron decks in the T8? 1, and it didn't win.
-Gx Tron decks in the T32? 2 total.
-Valakut decks in the T8 and T32? 0 total.
-JTMS in the T8? 2 different decks (Grixis and Taking Turns).
-Non-JTMS blue decks in T8? 1 GDS, which everyone said was dead.
-Non-JTMS blue decks in T32? 1 UR Kiki.
-Distinct JTMS decks in T32? 6 JTMS decks, all different: UR Thing, UR Breach, Temur Midrange, UW Control, Grixis Control, Taking Turns
JTMS isn't dominating, blue decks aren't all using JTMS, JTMS isn't homogenizing blue decks, JTMS decks aren't overpowered, big mana isn't on the rise, etc. etc. As usual, the measured and analytic approach to Modern is winning out again over the sensationalist "gut feel" hyperbole.
Re: GP Lyon
LOL @ Tron losing to Abzan in the T8. LOL again @ all Trons being out in the quarterfinals. Looks like we have more datapoints of good players on midrange decks (e.g. Duke) beating the unbeatable matchup when the stakes are high.
Re: Tron hate
This wanton Tron hate needs to chill out. At this point, it's just a meme with basically no evidence to support it. If you don't like Tron and its current performances, you probably should not be playing Modern. Wizards has been extremely vocal and clear over the last year stating that the format is healthy. See October 2017 for the actual quote. See February 2018 for the unban in a healthy Modern. If you do not like Tron's prevalence in those metagame snapshots, then your vision of the format is fundamentally misaligned with Wizards'. This puts a double burden on your arguments; first, to prove that Tron is actually unhealthy, and second, to prove that Wizards' position is wrong. If you want to adopt this stance then do so, but we need to stop the one-liner anti-Tron comments as if they are gospel. They are just niche opinions by vocal, lifelong dissenters at this point.
None of the 4 Tron decks in the Top 8 played those cards...
Yes and then when they saw it people immediately picked it up and ran with it. Pyromancer was everywhere after the PT. Tron is not an undiscovered gem though. People know what it is and it's been optimized pretty much as far as it goes.
The fact that they specifically and intentionally designed Blood Sun such that it does not hit Tron is fairly stomach-churning as far as their stance on Tron is concerned.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Now I am not a person who thinks that Jace will warp the format the way the doomsayers are predicting. However I will point out we are only one week in, and with the spike in price for Jace there are arguably a large amount of people who are not going to want to play him at the moment, especially with a reprint imminent in Masters 25. I`d be willing to revisit this point against in a few months after Masters 25 is out, the price of Jace has dropped, and we`ve had more than just 1 week`s worth of results.
I love the usual h0lydiva response:
"I can't refute the good points you are making against my argument, so I will just say they are stupid and a waste of my time."
And people say the art of debate is lost in today's society....
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I don't a have link, but in the article where they talked about the card designs in Rivals, it was mentioned that they wanted to make Blood Sun so that it couldn't turn off the Tron lands.
EDIT: LINK and context:
ID: I was wondering if this can cost two for Standard, but I worry about shutting off fetch lands in other formats.
ID: I doubt this is doing anything in Standard at three mana. If we need this to answer Deserts and double-faced lands, it probably needs to cost less, cantrip, or have some additional utility.
BH: Now cantrips.
ROSEJ: I'm surprised this doesn't just stop activated abilities. Really want to turn off Urborg and Eye of Ugin?
DEL: Doesn't actually turn off Urborg. Type-changing is in an earlier layer than ability-removing effects.
ID: And this lets Urza lands still tap for multiple mana?
BH: We're aware that this doesn't turn off Urborg, and fine with people who play Modern needing to learn that. We prefer not dirtying up this card.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I DO think Twin was hurting diversity not in Blue, but in a general sense of 'end of turn 3 flash creature, are you dead' people STILL trying and seeing success with Kiki...but neither BBE, or Jace, or Tron, or even Turns has that same power.
After years now, I still think nothing would supplant Twin as the formats best.
All that is to say, without Twin, the format can cycle, there is no deck that can always be the answer, and that's probably for the best.
Jace isn't going to change that, it's just going to widen the field even more.
Spirits
I agree with your point, I was just grabbing the context for what was being discussed.
To me, the assertion that WotC intentionally made Blood Sun not interact with Tron is a tinfoil hat level conspiracy theory, made for no other reason that to justify the thought that, "Tron is too overpowered for Modern but it isn't banned because WotC loves it for some reason."
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'm largely using the Challenge as an early datapoint showing that JTMS, in his first week of insane hype and hyperbole, probably did not destroy Modern.
As for Tron, we don't just need that one Challenge to see how the deck is fine. Look at the last 12 months of tournament/ data and Wizards statements. It's exceedingly clear that Tron is not the monster you and others make it out to be. There are mountains of data to prove this, and numerous "no changes" update to verify it. I know that you are an experienced player with lots of Modern reps, and I know you critically look at Modern pictures. You don't strike me as a Brenan DeCandio. Because of that, this one-liner Tron hate is beneath you. There is so much evidence to disprove all the Tron doomsaying. You and others need to stop it.
Yet, still, these same people making the claim about Gx Tron are doing neither (from what I've observed) - They aren't playing Tron, nor are they taking a break from Magic. This seems to suggest a sort of dissonance.
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)My big thing is that I can't relate to so many ban maniacs because I really only look at speed. I dislike Storm because it is too fast. I disliked Bloom because....well, fast and the Pact win just felt really cheap. I loved life during full power Jund. it was strong as hell, but it wasn't hugely FAST. idk, that's just me.