what decks will get strongest after the unbanning?
Decks that don't care about the unbanning. Players will show up in hordes with the new toys and lose to the toys that are already much more powerful. Bloodbraid Elf certainly doesn't do much, but Jace will probably have a HUGE effect in Tier 2 and 3.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
SDT is never getting unbanned in Modern. It's on the same list of improbable unbans as Skullclamp I bet, even if for different reasons.
I'm over the moon on this whole update and everything it represents. What a massive turnaround from 12 months ago. It's also a triumph for those that have been trumpeting Modern over the past year (especially the last 4 months) and had to combat those who kept denouncing it as unhealthy despite all the evidence to the contrary. I welcome the unbans, the new open approach to Modern management, and the Wizards stamp of approval on this iteration of the format.
Im especially loving the improved levels of transparency they have been doing lately. I think this is a great unban and look forward to killing some jaces. Bloodbraid will be a pain but hey thats the nature of the game.
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
SDT is never getting unbanned in Modern. It's on the same list of improbable unbans as Skullclamp I bet, even if for different reasons.
I'm over the moon on this whole update and everything it represents. What a massive turnaround from 12 months ago. It's also a triumph for those that have been trumpeting Modern over the past year (especially the last 4 months) and had to combat those who kept denouncing it as unhealthy despite all the evidence to the contrary. I welcome the unbans, the new open approach to Modern management, and the Wizards stamp of approval on this iteration of the format.
Im especially loving the improved levels of transparency they have been doing lately. I think this is a great unban and look forward to killing some jaces. Bloodbraid will be a pain but hey thats the nature of the game.
I have to agree that however one feels about bans, unbans, or the state of modern the transparency is very refreshing.
I think Jace is pretty risky (as psyched as I am to get to play him in modern), but I also prefer a WotC that takes risks with the ban list. They have an accelerated timeline for the announcements, so if Jace doesn't work out, they can always reban him, and I much prefer that to a format where things take forever to be freed from the list. That said, I feel for people who dump money on a playset of whatever (in this case Jace) only to have him rebanned, but frankly, that's the risk you take with any card in modern (in any TCG, really).
Also, let's assume that WotC is trying to sell packs of M25 (I'm not conceding this is their reasoning for Jace, but hypothetical): Them messing with their current most popular format for 1 set seems risky, but also don't we want WotC to sell packs? They are a business, and magic stops making them money, the game will die very quickly.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I think Jace is pretty risky (as psyched as I am to get to play him in modern), but I also prefer a WotC that takes risks with the ban list. They have an accelerated timeline for the announcements, so if Jace doesn't work out, they can always reban him, and I much prefer that to a format where things take forever to be freed from the list. That said, I feel for people who dump money on a playset of whatever (in this case Jace) only to have him rebanned, but frankly, that's the risk you take with any card in modern (in any TCG, really).
Also, let's assume that WotC is trying to sell packs of M25 (I'm not conceding this is their reasoning for Jace, but hypothetical): Them messing with their current most popular format for 1 set seems risky, but also don't we want WotC to sell packs? They are a business, and magic stops making them money, the game will die very quickly.
They wouldn't have unbanned Jace if he wasn't in the new set, right? He would sky rocket even more than he already has but WoTC makes no money. I think WoTC is taking a risk here that'll pay off in the short term. But if Jace ends up being too powerful and needs a banning people are gonna be down a few hundred bucks for a few months of fun. I really hope WoTC tested out Jace and I'm totally wrong here.
No, they probably wouldn't have unbanned him without a reprint planned, but I don't think that's specifically to sell packs, more of a good opportunity to do it. I'm giving WotC the benefit of the doubt as wanting the game to thrive more than they want to move packs of a reprint set. And as I said, people dumping cash to buy a card that only stays off the ban list for a few months is a problem, but it's no more of a problem of someone buying in to jund/pod/twin/any expensive deck and having a card get banned. And jace being $160 is rough, but goyf cracked $200 if I remember right. Magic is an expensive and risky hobby. We know it going in to the game.
Disclaimer: I have jace's already, so I am arguing from a place of not needing them. That said, I stand by my arguments, but might be a little saltier if I hand't already bought them.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
They wouldn't have unbanned Jace if he wasn't in the new set, right? He would sky rocket even more than he already has but WoTC makes no money. I think WoTC is taking a risk here that'll pay off in the short term. But if Jace ends up being too powerful and needs a banning people are gonna be down a few hundred bucks for a few months of fun. I really hope WoTC tested out Jace and I'm totally wrong here.
This means that they already had made the decision before the Masters25 was done. Then they decided to print him in the set to make the card more accessible (and pad their hurting wallets in the time being).
Wizards says that they don't test Modern. They probably believe that it is more risky than many of us Modern players know it is. Bloodbraid Elf is a card that has probably (made up number) less than a 1% chance of breaking anything.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
No, they probably wouldn't have unbanned him without a reprint planned, but I don't think that's specifically to sell packs, more of a good opportunity to do it. I'm giving WotC the benefit of the doubt as wanting the game to thrive more than they want to move packs of a reprint set. And as I said, people dumping cash to buy a card that only stays off the ban list for a few months is a problem, but it's no more of a problem of someone buying in to jund/pod/twin/any expensive deck and having a card get banned. And jace being $160 is rough, but goyf cracked $200 if I remember right. Magic is an expensive and risky hobby. We know it going in to the game.
Disclaimer: I have jace's already, so I am arguing from a place of not needing them. That said, I stand by my arguments, but might be a little saltier if I hand't already bought them.
Comparing Tarmo to JtMS isnt accurate though. Tarmo has always been a lot, it's a known quantity and always has been. There hasn't been an unban or ban of this amount of money in modern. I guess what I'm saying is that it feels disingenuous, especially if Jace ends up being too powerful for the format.
So, I've been reading, watching, and listening to all the twitter, youtube, blog hot takes and there seems to be some general consensus among the talking heads and pro's.
1. Are you playing something like Grishoalbrand, or Burn, or Bogles, or Tron? You probably dont care about Jace, or BBE.
2. Are you playing something with Artifacts? You may care about the beats that will be BBE + K-Command.
3. Are you playing solid Tier 2/3 Jank? Jace is about to ruin your life, just like Twin did before.
4. Are you playing true mid-range? Jace is about to ruin your life, harder than Twin did before.
5. Are you playing UWR or UW or Grixis Control? You are now running Jace.
So really, the odds of this completely crushing the 'diversity' are pretty low, from a sampling of various 'mtg personality' hot takes I'm seeing.
So, I've been reading, watching, and listening to all the twitter, youtube, blog hot takes and there seems to be some general consensus among the talking heads and pro's.
1. Are you playing something like Grishoalbrand, or Burn, or Bogles, or Tron? You probably dont care about Jace, or BBE.
2. Are you playing something with Artifacts? You may care about the beats that will be BBE + K-Command.
3. Are you playing solid Tier 2/3 Jank? Jace is about to ruin your life, just like Twin did before.
4. Are you playing true mid-range? Jace is about to ruin your life, harder than Twin did before.
5. Are you playing UWR or UW or Grixis Control? You are now running Jace.
So really, the odds of this completely crushing the 'diversity' are pretty low, from a sampling of various 'mtg personality' hot takes I'm seeing.
This is pretty much my consensus as well, straight down to the #3 posted there. Player's little Timmy deck that could do decently at a small noncompetitive FNM will be destroyed in a pond with Big Fish.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
So, I've been reading, watching, and listening to all the twitter, youtube, blog hot takes and there seems to be some general consensus among the talking heads and pro's.
1. Are you playing something like Grishoalbrand, or Burn, or Bogles, or Tron? You probably dont care about Jace, or BBE.
2. Are you playing something with Artifacts? You may care about the beats that will be BBE + K-Command.
3. Are you playing solid Tier 2/3 Jank? Jace is about to ruin your life, just like Twin did before.
4. Are you playing true mid-range? Jace is about to ruin your life, harder than Twin did before.
5. Are you playing UWR or UW or Grixis Control? You are now running Jace.
So really, the odds of this completely crushing the 'diversity' are pretty low, from a sampling of various 'mtg personality' hot takes I'm seeing.
I am not 100% sure on #4. although it will kill some true midrange (aka Abzan) it makes jund 100% better.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
People are over evaluating the legendary jace. This is an aggressive creature format. Jace is horrible in that.
Bbelf is good, but shouldnt have been banned. It was deathrite that carried legendary jund days of yore.
Both cards will find homes and do their jobs. The meta will still be healthy and settle long term. The sky didnt fall.
I've been saying it'll be unbanned and "do nothing" for nearly 2 years now.
It's sweet to have him in the format, but he's far from broken in any means. He's just a good blue midrange/control card that's cheaper than Keranos and better than Architect of Thought.
Depending on the popularity of Jace we may see a shift in the Thoughtseize/IoK ratios maybe a further decline in Abrupt Decay. Spell Queller may see a bigger uptick. Either way I'm excited to see what happens in modern.
Any idea why we're not rolling this out until after the weekend? Would have loved to see our new toys in action this weekend. Is there an actual reason? Such as, voiding out player's preparation.
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GP Singapore Coverage:What did you have for breakfast this morning?
Any idea why we're not rolling this out until after the weekend? Would have loved to see our new toys in action this weekend. Is there an actual reason? Such as, voiding out player's preparation.
Home from work and re-reading the ban announcement in detail, this line caught me by surprise:
"In watching the format evolve, we've observed that decks seeking to control the game have struggled against the speed and variety of threats present in the format. Often these decks have been forced to adopt an explosive win condition of their own. Our hope is that Jace, the Mind Sculptor will provide yet another option in an already diverse format, giving controlling decks an alternative way to close out prolonged games."
I'm not sure how I feel about this statement. It seems they are saying that blue-based control decks have slow or unreliable win conditions (which I agree with) and that somehow Jace fixes that?? They also imply that previous decks (like Twin) or current decks (like Breach/Emrakul) are clearly NOT what they want in terms of reactive decks. I'm curious to see how things pan out. Maybe Jace will be the savior of blue reactive decks, or maybe it will be just another option of mediocrity, and they use the same justification here to release SFM or Twin in another 6mo-1yr (giving control decks another option to close out games). Who knows. Either way, I will definitely be brewing with my foils.
Decks that don't care about the unbanning. Players will show up in hordes with the new toys and lose to the toys that are already much more powerful. Bloodbraid Elf certainly doesn't do much, but Jace will probably have a HUGE effect in Tier 2 and 3.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Im especially loving the improved levels of transparency they have been doing lately. I think this is a great unban and look forward to killing some jaces. Bloodbraid will be a pain but hey thats the nature of the game.
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
What is going to be 'best' who knows, not me.
What is going to be 'better' is Uxx Control, all kinds.
Spirits
I have to agree that however one feels about bans, unbans, or the state of modern the transparency is very refreshing.
Also, let's assume that WotC is trying to sell packs of M25 (I'm not conceding this is their reasoning for Jace, but hypothetical): Them messing with their current most popular format for 1 set seems risky, but also don't we want WotC to sell packs? They are a business, and magic stops making them money, the game will die very quickly.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
They wouldn't have unbanned Jace if he wasn't in the new set, right? He would sky rocket even more than he already has but WoTC makes no money. I think WoTC is taking a risk here that'll pay off in the short term. But if Jace ends up being too powerful and needs a banning people are gonna be down a few hundred bucks for a few months of fun. I really hope WoTC tested out Jace and I'm totally wrong here.
Those crazy bastards...
They actually did it.
No, they probably wouldn't have unbanned him without a reprint planned, but I don't think that's specifically to sell packs, more of a good opportunity to do it. I'm giving WotC the benefit of the doubt as wanting the game to thrive more than they want to move packs of a reprint set. And as I said, people dumping cash to buy a card that only stays off the ban list for a few months is a problem, but it's no more of a problem of someone buying in to jund/pod/twin/any expensive deck and having a card get banned. And jace being $160 is rough, but goyf cracked $200 if I remember right. Magic is an expensive and risky hobby. We know it going in to the game.
Disclaimer: I have jace's already, so I am arguing from a place of not needing them. That said, I stand by my arguments, but might be a little saltier if I hand't already bought them.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
This means that they already had made the decision before the Masters25 was done. Then they decided to print him in the set to make the card more accessible (and pad their hurting wallets in the time being).
Wizards says that they don't test Modern. They probably believe that it is more risky than many of us Modern players know it is. Bloodbraid Elf is a card that has probably (made up number) less than a 1% chance of breaking anything.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Comparing Tarmo to JtMS isnt accurate though. Tarmo has always been a lot, it's a known quantity and always has been. There hasn't been an unban or ban of this amount of money in modern. I guess what I'm saying is that it feels disingenuous, especially if Jace ends up being too powerful for the format.
Really curious to see how shadow decks adjust to this
1. Are you playing something like Grishoalbrand, or Burn, or Bogles, or Tron? You probably dont care about Jace, or BBE.
2. Are you playing something with Artifacts? You may care about the beats that will be BBE + K-Command.
3. Are you playing solid Tier 2/3 Jank? Jace is about to ruin your life, just like Twin did before.
4. Are you playing true mid-range? Jace is about to ruin your life, harder than Twin did before.
5. Are you playing UWR or UW or Grixis Control? You are now running Jace.
So really, the odds of this completely crushing the 'diversity' are pretty low, from a sampling of various 'mtg personality' hot takes I'm seeing.
Spirits
This is pretty much my consensus as well, straight down to the #3 posted there. Player's little Timmy deck that could do decently at a small noncompetitive FNM will be destroyed in a pond with Big Fish.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Zoo has been a jace killer since jace existed. Its sided out vs zoo. Zoo has a absurd win rate vs control.
It lost to miracles because of terminus.
Everyone on the zoo thread is happy about his unban.
Spirits
Bbelf is good, but shouldnt have been banned. It was deathrite that carried legendary jund days of yore.
Both cards will find homes and do their jobs. The meta will still be healthy and settle long term. The sky didnt fall.
I am not 100% sure on #4. although it will kill some true midrange (aka Abzan) it makes jund 100% better.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Ugh, for the last time.
BBE and Visions will almost never be in the same deck. Just because it works doesn't mean its good (especially without top deck manipulation).
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I've been saying it'll be unbanned and "do nothing" for nearly 2 years now.
It's sweet to have him in the format, but he's far from broken in any means. He's just a good blue midrange/control card that's cheaper than Keranos and better than Architect of Thought.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
"In watching the format evolve, we've observed that decks seeking to control the game have struggled against the speed and variety of threats present in the format. Often these decks have been forced to adopt an explosive win condition of their own. Our hope is that Jace, the Mind Sculptor will provide yet another option in an already diverse format, giving controlling decks an alternative way to close out prolonged games."
I'm not sure how I feel about this statement. It seems they are saying that blue-based control decks have slow or unreliable win conditions (which I agree with) and that somehow Jace fixes that?? They also imply that previous decks (like Twin) or current decks (like Breach/Emrakul) are clearly NOT what they want in terms of reactive decks. I'm curious to see how things pan out. Maybe Jace will be the savior of blue reactive decks, or maybe it will be just another option of mediocrity, and they use the same justification here to release SFM or Twin in another 6mo-1yr (giving control decks another option to close out games). Who knows. Either way, I will definitely be brewing with my foils.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate