White's color pie definition has basically been "jack of all trades, master of none" since the big changes around Tenth Edition. When you think of it that way it makes sense that there's a problem with its identity and power in Modern. It needs a new definition/identity.
I feel you on the weakness of Path in some scenarios, but thats how White should be. You give something up, for complete removal. I dont know, I just dont know what White really needs to make it into something other than a sideboard colour, or taxes. Thats essentially 'white' in Modern. Maybe a White Aggro deck comes out of Dominaria.
I have to admit though, I dont 'get' white's colour pie like Black/Blue/Red/Green. Other than 'I tax things'.
seriously white just needs better creatures, specifically value creatures and not more random hatebears
what were even the last white creatures to enter the format and make a difference? selfless spirit, thalias lieutenant, and vizier are the only ones that come to mind.
quite the allstar line up..
for real though id trade jace for stoneforge in jeskai any day of the week, and twice on sunday. but that wouldnt be fair to other blue decks, which admittedly needed some help.
edit: i know we were talking about black dominance, and lacking options for white disruption. which stoneforge really does nothing to help with.
I think you are probably right on Stoneforge, Jace doesnt help keep up the card advantage wars early enough, and as most of us said 'its a Turn 4 tap out' You simply die, or its turn 5, 6, 7...and thats just not a format killer of a card.
I think the top 8 of this SCG Open is going to have 1 Jace deck, at most. Looks like 40 minutes to wait, I'll step out and check in later.
edit: i know we were talking about black dominance, and lacking options for white disruption. which stoneforge really does nothing to help with.
Last I checked white has some of the best disruptive cards in the format (Path, Thalia, Stony, Rest in Peace, Leyline). So that's not its problem at all. The color just lacks strong proactive options, which Stoneforge most definitely helps with.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
edit: i know we were talking about black dominance, and lacking options for white disruption. which stoneforge really does nothing to help with.
Last I checked white has some of the best disruptive cards in the format (Path, Thalia, Stony, Rest in Peace, Leyline). So that's not its problem at all. The color just lacks strong proactive options, which Stoneforge most definitely helps with.
path is the only one that can be played main deck without a specific shell. if you go back and look we were talking about discard and its ubiquity in the format because it is a main deck option that functionally answers anything the opponent could be doing.
tbh i dont think their is a plausible way of making this not be the case (at least not as strongly). some value creatures would be nice though.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
The issue with Mom is the templating. I've proposed a few options that I suspect will be made eventually--e.g. "tap to give target creature you control hexproof and indestructible until end of turn."
I think you're correct though that a second quality 1-drop is probably at least as important as stoneforge-esque cards. Thraben Inspector is solid, but not quite as board dominant as a Mom effect is.
Ponza wins the SCG Open. Horrible last game in the finals (I can see the haters coming from a mile away saying it's a glorified FNM), but still Ponza wins a tournament. This format is still wide open!
All in all, what did this weekend and all my games since the unbans teach me?
It is pointless to play fair, you simply give up percentage points.
Time to dust off the UR Prowess.
And yet we have Jund and UW Control in the T8, with BBE and JTMS respectively. I'm pretty sure it's just as viable to those fair players as the unfair ones. In fact, UW Control also had only one representative on Day 2 to begin with and they made it all the way to T8.
I do think it's harder to play those decks in Modern and you need a really tight 75. But don't players who prefer these strategies want to see tight gameplay rewarded? I know some people just want ezmode Twin back and 50/50+ matchups across the board, but I don't think that's everyone. I think most interactive players should be totally succesful and fulfilled in this format if they put in the reps and make the right choices.
Ponza wins the SCG Open. Horrible last game in the finals (I can see the haters coming from a mile away saying it's a glorified FNM), but still Ponza wins a tournament. This format is still wide open!
I'm confused, what made it 'horrible' in the last game? The Storm player just couldn't draw into what he needed so he lost; what's that have to do with FNM? Variance is a thing everywhere. Were there some big misplays I didn't notice?
If there were misplays, I should note something for the record: Things might have changed, but it's my understanding that in the Top 8, Top 4, and Top 2, players are give the option to split all the prizes (both points and cash) evenly if everyone agrees. Frequently, this occurs; not necessarily in the Top 8 because just one person saying no turns it off, but in the Top 4 or Top 2 it's more common to occur. When it happens, the only difference between 1st place and the rest who split is just some extra prestige and a cool trophy. I wouldn't be that surprised if players weren't putting forward their all in such a situation when there's not really that much on the line. Heck, I'd try to just blast through the games as quickly as possible because it'd be late and I'd want to be heading home.
I think the FNM thing is a joke, about the quality of play? Thats why I ask how many people were there. Its not a FNM, and to get to the top 8 is a huge run.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I have to admit though, I dont 'get' white's colour pie like Black/Blue/Red/Green. Other than 'I tax things'.
Spirits
what were even the last white creatures to enter the format and make a difference? selfless spirit, thalias lieutenant, and vizier are the only ones that come to mind.
quite the allstar line up..
for real though id trade jace for stoneforge in jeskai any day of the week, and twice on sunday. but that wouldnt be fair to other blue decks, which admittedly needed some help.
edit: i know we were talking about black dominance, and lacking options for white disruption. which stoneforge really does nothing to help with.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I think the top 8 of this SCG Open is going to have 1 Jace deck, at most. Looks like 40 minutes to wait, I'll step out and check in later.
Spirits
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
path is the only one that can be played main deck without a specific shell. if you go back and look we were talking about discard and its ubiquity in the format because it is a main deck option that functionally answers anything the opponent could be doing.
tbh i dont think their is a plausible way of making this not be the case (at least not as strongly). some value creatures would be nice though.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)The issue with Mom is the templating. I've proposed a few options that I suspect will be made eventually--e.g. "tap to give target creature you control hexproof and indestructible until end of turn."
I think you're correct though that a second quality 1-drop is probably at least as important as stoneforge-esque cards. Thraben Inspector is solid, but not quite as board dominant as a Mom effect is.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
even still i cant see them ever trying to introduced some fixed mother of runes. that just seems awful in standard.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Infect beat Jund
UW Control vs Storm is in game 3 EDIT: Storm (Pyromancer Ascension) Won
Storm vs EDIT: Its GBTron
Spirits
Would Benevolent Bodyguard be played in Modern?
Kor Kindergardener
W
Kor Cleric
First strike, Deathtouch
“Hands off my children.“
0/2
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
Top 4
Ponza vs Infect
Storm vs Storm
Spirits
Isn't Deathtouch a G/B thing though?
edit: quick gatherer search show no W creatures with deathtouch WITHOUT B in either their casting cost or activation cost to enable deathtouch.
looks to be around 20 different decks in the top 32
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
"oh look at how unhealthy modern is..."
well good sir. im so glad you noticed. if you would please look over here at this shiny new artifact, im sure we could assuage all of your worries.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
All in all, what did this weekend and all my games since the unbans teach me?
It is pointless to play fair, you simply give up percentage points.
Time to dust off the UR Prowess.
Spirits
And yet we have Jund and UW Control in the T8, with BBE and JTMS respectively. I'm pretty sure it's just as viable to those fair players as the unfair ones. In fact, UW Control also had only one representative on Day 2 to begin with and they made it all the way to T8.
I do think it's harder to play those decks in Modern and you need a really tight 75. But don't players who prefer these strategies want to see tight gameplay rewarded? I know some people just want ezmode Twin back and 50/50+ matchups across the board, but I don't think that's everyone. I think most interactive players should be totally succesful and fulfilled in this format if they put in the reps and make the right choices.
I've never been about 'look at me maximize my lines over 10 turns'.
Ivw been on the 'dont do that' until I win.
Twin.
Taking Turns.
But people get far too salty over Turns.
So yeah, I'll just play UR, and sometimes spike people into the dirt if they don't have the removal.
Spirits
If there were misplays, I should note something for the record: Things might have changed, but it's my understanding that in the Top 8, Top 4, and Top 2, players are give the option to split all the prizes (both points and cash) evenly if everyone agrees. Frequently, this occurs; not necessarily in the Top 8 because just one person saying no turns it off, but in the Top 4 or Top 2 it's more common to occur. When it happens, the only difference between 1st place and the rest who split is just some extra prestige and a cool trophy. I wouldn't be that surprised if players weren't putting forward their all in such a situation when there's not really that much on the line. Heck, I'd try to just blast through the games as quickly as possible because it'd be late and I'd want to be heading home.
Spirits