It wasn't that long ago that Nekrataal saw some main deck play (pod days, obv) but I think it's likely as an evolution target in most evolution decks that play black. And it's a reasonable one-of chord target for abzan company on occasion the meta is creature heavy.
Like I said, fringe, but I think it'd be very surprising to not see some sideboard play at the very least. We've never had this effect in modern at 4 mana so it's tough to judge.
Fish doesn't want him. Like at all. Tapping one to make him unblockable is redundant when there's islandwalk. His other two abilities are really weak when you could just attack and win. He's getting a ton of flack from Merfolk players all over the internet.
Well did they playtest him? I'm at two copies and I won't turn back. Just sitting there giving it flak doesn't cut it for me, and apparently everyone has been underrating all these G Merfolk since Ixalan, so I'm unsure where all these bad evaluations are coming from.
It passes the bolt test, it digs you out of board stalls, and can potentially be a form of reach with no lord in play. It can force through damage to kill walkers which has come up multiple times against all the various Liliana's and Chandras.
Let all that sink in for a moment, This card is nowhere near "unplayable" - so far based on spoilers the best build I've found runs 4 Cursecatcher and 4 Kumena, with 18 lands, 4 vials and 4 seas, we could potentially see a version of Merfolk with no other spells maindeck and enough fish to push a more aggressive list.
It doesn't push the aggressiveness you're talking about for UG Fish. I like the stats on the guy since it survives a lot of things, but fish isn't going wide enough for the abilities to matter most of the time. If it swarms like elves or if they print stuff like Dwynen's Elite for fish then it would be better. In the meantime, it's decent in games going long, but for now fish players are hoping for disruption on a stick.
Admiral's Order terrifies me as a control player. Timing your removal against any deck with blue in it is gonna be awkward as hell if that card picks up even a tiny bit
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
Admiral's Orders and World Shaper both seem interesting. Admiral's Orders speaks for itself, and I'm wondering whether there's something with World Shaper and Dredge.
I'd have to cast at 4 cmc right? I'd also rather my lands in my grave or hand... In the playing field is awkward for conflagrate and life from the loam. It also makes replaying lands to abuse Ghasts harder in the long run. My dredge usually checklist goes:
Can I cheat it into play? (no)
Does it recur any of my dudes (Yes, once)
Is it wide or huge? (No)
Does it help me dredge turns 1-4? (not really)
It doesnt really do enough. Just because I can have all my lands in play doesnt really do anything for me. I stop playing lands around 5th or 6th to be honest in order to conserve gas.
Admiral's Order terrifies me as a control player. Timing your removal against any deck with blue in it is gonna be awkward as hell if that card picks up even a tiny bit
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
Admiral's Orders and World Shaper both seem interesting. Admiral's Orders speaks for itself, and I'm wondering whether there's something with World Shaper and Dredge.
I'd have to cast at 4 cmc right? I'd also rather my lands in my grave or hand... In the playing field is awkward for conflagrate and life from the loam. It also makes replaying lands to abuse Ghasts harder in the long run. My dredge usually checklist goes:
Can I cheat it into play? (no)
Does it recur any of my dudes (Yes, once)
Is it wide or huge? (No)
Does it help me dredge turns 1-4? (not really)
It doesnt really do enough. Just because I can have all my lands in play doesnt really do anything for me. I stop playing lands around 5th or 6th to be honest in order to conserve gas.
sorry, i meant the mechanic, not the deck. I agree it doesn't fit in the current dredge deck.
Ascend is a good mechanic for standard, but no card with ascend is modern playable. They'd have to make some elf ascend card for it to be even considered.
They wont make it into any modern tourney level deck because aggro doesn't want the game to last that long and control cant afford to use the bad not ascended side and survive against aggro or combo.
*Note* the only slight possible exception i can possibly see so far is the edict. That may make it as a 1 of in the sb.
The cards I'm most stoked to try in modern is the new merfolk lord and Kumena himself. Those two cards in particular look like they are what the simic merfolk deck needed. The question is if the deck has the slots to dedicate for the new cards since merfolk already has some great lords and a ton of card draw options.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Admiral's Order terrifies me as a control player. Timing your removal against any deck with blue in it is gonna be awkward as hell if that card picks up even a tiny bit
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
Maybe I am underrating it, but Admiral's order seems like a total trap to me. You might get someone once, but any good player will not be fooled twice. Just play your removal before attackers are declared. If you are paying raid cost for it then you are countering an instant 99% of the time and in that case you just have dispel which is much more reliable when it absolutely needs to be.
I posted up this scenario for Affinity earlier with Enter the Unknown
Opening hand: Darksteel Citadel, Glimmervoid or Spire of Industry, Ornithopter or Memnite, Springleaf Drum, Mox Opal, Enter the Unknown and your choice of Master of Etherium or Etched Champion.
T1 on the play: Drop Citadel, Ornithopter, Mox Opal, cast Drum off Citadel, Cast Enter the Unknown, put counter on O-thopter, play Spire of Industry, cast Master of Etherium off Opal, Spire and O-thopter tapped with drum. Entire hand puked on the board with a 2/3 flyer and a 5/5 Master before your opponent puts a card on the table.
If not that, I think it has other possibilities. I like it, especially at Uncommon.
Seems you are forgetting that you need mana to cast the enter the unknown. You didn't take that into account in your T1 scenario.
Maybe I am underrating it, but Admiral's order seems like a total trap to me. You might get someone once, but any good player will not be fooled twice. Just play your removal before attackers are declared. If you are paying raid cost for it then you are countering an instant 99% of the time and in that case you just have dispel which is much more reliable when it absolutely needs to be.
Yeah, Trap card. Cause why not just play Dispel instead, if you dread instant speed removal spells (which also costs 1 mana in the enemy turn)?
I honestly have no idea, which deck would even want to play that card to begin with.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
This set is depressing me guys. I really don't like the direction design has went the past bunch of years. They really struggle on making a consistent power level... other than consistently weak.
This set is depressing me guys. I really don't like the direction design has went the past bunch of years. They really struggle on making a consistent power level... other than consistently weak.
If it makes you feel better, Play Design (the new competitive testing team) did not have input in this set. Their first real project will be Dominaria.
I'm actually significantly more excited about Swift Warden in Modern UG Merfolk. The GG in the mana cost is vicious, but Hexproofing a lord for one turn (yes, with Flash) is a lot more valuable than Kopala, Warden of Waves's two-mana tax that just makes Bolt/Path/Push cost a reasonable 3 mana. Then, it's a 3-cmc 3/3, which is actually above par for 3-cmc Merfolk. I guess I've gotta make room for this guy as a 1-2-of in testing.
I talked about Admiral's Order in its Rumor Mill thread. It seems best in creature-heavy combo decks where you want to resolve a game-winning spell post-combat...so that could be Company, Elves, Amulet, or maybe Madcap Moon in Modern, I guess. Maybe it could be hilarious in UGrx Scapeshift because I attack with Sakura-Tribe Elder a bunch in that deck, but then I want to find Scapeshift faster instead. These all seem like stretches, though--Legacy gets Aluren and Food Chain while Modern doesn't, and Aluren and Food Chain enable game-winning combos better.
I posted up this scenario for Affinity earlier with Enter the Unknown
Opening hand: Darksteel Citadel, Glimmervoid or Spire of Industry, Ornithopter or Memnite, Springleaf Drum, Mox Opal, Enter the Unknown and your choice of Master of Etherium or Etched Champion.
T1 on the play: Drop Citadel, Ornithopter, Mox Opal, cast Drum off Citadel, Cast Enter the Unknown, put counter on O-thopter, play Spire of Industry, cast Master of Etherium off Opal, Spire and O-thopter tapped with drum. Entire hand puked on the board with a 2/3 flyer and a 5/5 Master before your opponent puts a card on the table.
If not that, I think it has other possibilities. I like it, especially at Uncommon.
Seems you are forgetting that you need mana to cast the enter the unknown. You didn't take that into account in your T1 scenario.
Oops I did. So you could only cast a 2 cmc spell as the 7th card played. Not quite so good as the scenario presented. Good catch.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Admiral's Order terrifies me as a control player. Timing your removal against any deck with blue in it is gonna be awkward as hell if that card picks up even a tiny bit
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
Maybe I am underrating it, but Admiral's order seems like a total trap to me. You might get someone once, but any good player will not be fooled twice. Just play your removal before attackers are declared. If you are paying raid cost for it then you are countering an instant 99% of the time and in that case you just have dispel which is much more reliable when it absolutely needs to be.
The problem would be in the early game, where it is often correct to take chip damage, see what they cast postcombat and then counter or kill accordingly. This card existing could mean that you are basically forced to kill before combat and lose that option. It might just be too situational to deserve sideboard slots however
Also I'm a bit salty we get this over a good new counterspell for control
I'm actually significantly more excited about Swift Warden in Modern UG Merfolk. The GG in the mana cost is vicious, but Hexproofing a lord for one turn (yes, with Flash) is a lot more valuable than Kopala, Warden of Waves's two-mana tax that just makes Bolt/Path/Push cost a reasonable 3 mana. Then, it's a 3-cmc 3/3, which is actually above par for 3-cmc Merfolk. I guess I've gotta make room for this guy as a 1-2-of in testing.
I talked about Admiral's Order in its Rumor Mill thread. It seems best in creature-heavy combo decks where you want to resolve a game-winning spell post-combat...so that could be Company, Elves, Amulet, or maybe Madcap Moon in Modern, I guess. Maybe it could be hilarious in UGrx Scapeshift because I attack with Sakura-Tribe Elder a bunch in that deck, but then I want to find Scapeshift faster instead. These all seem like stretches, though--Legacy gets Aluren and Food Chain while Modern doesn't, and Aluren and Food Chain enable game-winning combos better.
I too think swift warden is one of the more exciting merfolk we've gotten, but the GG is brutal.
Again, admiral's order is just a god awful card. post combat main phasing CoCo is essentially never the correct play. You are either casting it first main (I have a hardened scales humans deck where this is the preferred timing, and not uncommon in elves either) or end of opponents turn. I don't think you are actually trying to defend it; it seems you are just trying to theory craft where it would have a home if it ever did, but I'm already tired of seeing people bringing it up in modern threads.
The card is just utterly and completely unplayable. It's awful. It has and never will have a home in even a budget modern deck.
I'm actually significantly more excited about Swift Warden in Modern UG Merfolk. The GG in the mana cost is vicious, but Hexproofing a lord for one turn (yes, with Flash) is a lot more valuable than Kopala, Warden of Waves's two-mana tax that just makes Bolt/Path/Push cost a reasonable 3 mana. Then, it's a 3-cmc 3/3, which is actually above par for 3-cmc Merfolk. I guess I've gotta make room for this guy as a 1-2-of in testing.
I talked about Admiral's Order in its Rumor Mill thread. It seems best in creature-heavy combo decks where you want to resolve a game-winning spell post-combat...so that could be Company, Elves, Amulet, or maybe Madcap Moon in Modern, I guess. Maybe it could be hilarious in UGrx Scapeshift because I attack with Sakura-Tribe Elder a bunch in that deck, but then I want to find Scapeshift faster instead. These all seem like stretches, though--Legacy gets Aluren and Food Chain while Modern doesn't, and Aluren and Food Chain enable game-winning combos better.
I too think swift warden is one of the more exciting merfolk we've gotten, but the GG is brutal.
Again, admiral's order is just a god awful card. post combat main phasing CoCo is essentially never the correct play. You are either casting it first main (I have a hardened scales humans deck where this is the preferred timing, and not uncommon in elves either) or end of opponents turn. I don't think you are actually trying to defend it; it seems you are just trying to theory craft where it would have a home if it ever did, but I'm already tired of seeing people bringing it up in modern threads.
The card is just utterly and completely unplayable. It's awful. It has and never will have a home in even a budget modern deck.
Agree completely. It's a more conditional Dispel with a bunch of fancy garbage attached to it. The Cancel mode is completely irrelevant. I'd rather run Spell Pierce to be honest.
Do you think that will change Modern or keep cards from puncturing into Modern every set?
Tom Ross was hired for that team specifically to work with cards in nonrotating formats. That's awesome that Wizards set aside a whole salary just for that position. I expect it means we'll get fewer busted cards, which hopefully play design will catch (Cruise, dredge nonsense, etc.). But it should also mean we get a few more cards like Push. It should be a net positive for Modern, but we'll have to see.
Do you think that will change Modern or keep cards from puncturing into Modern every set?
Tom Ross was hired for that team specifically to work with cards in nonrotating formats. That's awesome that Wizards set aside a whole salary just for that position. I expect it means we'll get fewer busted cards, which hopefully play design will catch (Cruise, dredge nonsense, etc.). But it should also mean we get a few more cards like Push. It should be a net positive for Modern, but we'll have to see.
Seeing as Tom was just recently hired, it could be years before we see any of his work come to fruition. Here's hoping the members of Play Design who worked on Dominaria give us some great stuff for modern
Admiral's Order terrifies me as a control player. Timing your removal against any deck with blue in it is gonna be awkward as hell if that card picks up even a tiny bit
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
Admiral's Orders and World Shaper both seem interesting. Admiral's Orders speaks for itself, and I'm wondering whether there's something with World Shaper and Dredge.
I'd have to cast at 4 cmc right? I'd also rather my lands in my grave or hand... In the playing field is awkward for conflagrate and life from the loam. It also makes replaying lands to abuse Ghasts harder in the long run. My dredge usually checklist goes:
Can I cheat it into play? (no)
Does it recur any of my dudes (Yes, once)
Is it wide or huge? (No)
Does it help me dredge turns 1-4? (not really)
It doesnt really do enough. Just because I can have all my lands in play doesnt really do anything for me. I stop playing lands around 5th or 6th to be honest in order to conserve gas.
sorry, i meant the mechanic, not the deck. I agree it doesn't fit in the current dredge deck.
Well there was a dredge Valakut deck that was running around a while ago. this could help that (though banning troll is what killed it.)
Admiral's Order terrifies me as a control player. Timing your removal against any deck with blue in it is gonna be awkward as hell if that card picks up even a tiny bit
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
Maybe I am underrating it, but Admiral's order seems like a total trap to me. You might get someone once, but any good player will not be fooled twice. Just play your removal before attackers are declared. If you are paying raid cost for it then you are countering an instant 99% of the time and in that case you just have dispel which is much more reliable when it absolutely needs to be.
You are a bit I think. Even if I assume you are a good control player and wont be fooled by it, You have to also remember, not everyone IS you. Most players aren't seasoned. They will play into it, then over correct in game 3. And like Bearscape, leveraging that to my advantage a seasoned aggro player can get additional chip damage, bluff the card, or have you waste your removal only to cast a bigger threat in main phase 2. And by you using your removal you might leave the gates open for me to go off with some kinda pump spell.
I'm not saying this is amazing, I'm just not underestimating it. It has uses. It can be better then dispel for example since it can lead to sideboard compaction, which is always nice. I never said it was super playable, just that is better than the next 4 mana merfolk that gives 1/1 counters.
Like I said, fringe, but I think it'd be very surprising to not see some sideboard play at the very least. We've never had this effect in modern at 4 mana so it's tough to judge.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
It doesn't push the aggressiveness you're talking about for UG Fish. I like the stats on the guy since it survives a lot of things, but fish isn't going wide enough for the abilities to matter most of the time. If it swarms like elves or if they print stuff like Dwynen's Elite for fish then it would be better. In the meantime, it's decent in games going long, but for now fish players are hoping for disruption on a stick.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I've said it for a long time, but just because it IS an instant, doesn't mean you shouldn't cast it as a sorcery. Its one of the easiest ways to bait control players to make mistakes. This will just reward aggro players who know this, and punish control players who dont.
I'd have to cast at 4 cmc right? I'd also rather my lands in my grave or hand... In the playing field is awkward for conflagrate and life from the loam. It also makes replaying lands to abuse Ghasts harder in the long run. My dredge usually checklist goes:
Can I cheat it into play? (no)
Does it recur any of my dudes (Yes, once)
Is it wide or huge? (No)
Does it help me dredge turns 1-4? (not really)
It doesnt really do enough. Just because I can have all my lands in play doesnt really do anything for me. I stop playing lands around 5th or 6th to be honest in order to conserve gas.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
They wont make it into any modern tourney level deck because aggro doesn't want the game to last that long and control cant afford to use the bad not ascended side and survive against aggro or combo.
*Note* the only slight possible exception i can possibly see so far is the edict. That may make it as a 1 of in the sb.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The card is a great Evolution target, this + Hostage Taker in the 4-mana slot might make "Sultai Evo-Chord" much more viable now.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Maybe I am underrating it, but Admiral's order seems like a total trap to me. You might get someone once, but any good player will not be fooled twice. Just play your removal before attackers are declared. If you are paying raid cost for it then you are countering an instant 99% of the time and in that case you just have dispel which is much more reliable when it absolutely needs to be.
Seems you are forgetting that you need mana to cast the enter the unknown. You didn't take that into account in your T1 scenario.
Yeah, Trap card. Cause why not just play Dispel instead, if you dread instant speed removal spells (which also costs 1 mana in the enemy turn)?
I honestly have no idea, which deck would even want to play that card to begin with.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If it makes you feel better, Play Design (the new competitive testing team) did not have input in this set. Their first real project will be Dominaria.
I talked about Admiral's Order in its Rumor Mill thread. It seems best in creature-heavy combo decks where you want to resolve a game-winning spell post-combat...so that could be Company, Elves, Amulet, or maybe Madcap Moon in Modern, I guess. Maybe it could be hilarious in UGrx Scapeshift because I attack with Sakura-Tribe Elder a bunch in that deck, but then I want to find Scapeshift faster instead. These all seem like stretches, though--Legacy gets Aluren and Food Chain while Modern doesn't, and Aluren and Food Chain enable game-winning combos better.
Oops I did. So you could only cast a 2 cmc spell as the 7th card played. Not quite so good as the scenario presented. Good catch.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The problem would be in the early game, where it is often correct to take chip damage, see what they cast postcombat and then counter or kill accordingly. This card existing could mean that you are basically forced to kill before combat and lose that option. It might just be too situational to deserve sideboard slots however
Also I'm a bit salty we get this over a good new counterspell for control
I too think swift warden is one of the more exciting merfolk we've gotten, but the GG is brutal.
Again, admiral's order is just a god awful card. post combat main phasing CoCo is essentially never the correct play. You are either casting it first main (I have a hardened scales humans deck where this is the preferred timing, and not uncommon in elves either) or end of opponents turn. I don't think you are actually trying to defend it; it seems you are just trying to theory craft where it would have a home if it ever did, but I'm already tired of seeing people bringing it up in modern threads.
The card is just utterly and completely unplayable. It's awful. It has and never will have a home in even a budget modern deck.
Agree completely. It's a more conditional Dispel with a bunch of fancy garbage attached to it. The Cancel mode is completely irrelevant. I'd rather run Spell Pierce to be honest.
CG
Tom Ross was hired for that team specifically to work with cards in nonrotating formats. That's awesome that Wizards set aside a whole salary just for that position. I expect it means we'll get fewer busted cards, which hopefully play design will catch (Cruise, dredge nonsense, etc.). But it should also mean we get a few more cards like Push. It should be a net positive for Modern, but we'll have to see.
Seeing as Tom was just recently hired, it could be years before we see any of his work come to fruition. Here's hoping the members of Play Design who worked on Dominaria give us some great stuff for modern
Well there was a dredge Valakut deck that was running around a while ago. this could help that (though banning troll is what killed it.)
You are a bit I think. Even if I assume you are a good control player and wont be fooled by it, You have to also remember, not everyone IS you. Most players aren't seasoned. They will play into it, then over correct in game 3. And like Bearscape, leveraging that to my advantage a seasoned aggro player can get additional chip damage, bluff the card, or have you waste your removal only to cast a bigger threat in main phase 2. And by you using your removal you might leave the gates open for me to go off with some kinda pump spell.
I'm not saying this is amazing, I'm just not underestimating it. It has uses. It can be better then dispel for example since it can lead to sideboard compaction, which is always nice. I never said it was super playable, just that is better than the next 4 mana merfolk that gives 1/1 counters.
Spirits