I was looking over the economy of energy and was thinking on how it plays into the function of cards when used together. In standard, it definitely made Attune with Aether, an energy version of a similar card from the past, infinitely more attractive than expected, and Glint-sleeve Siphoner, which is strictly worse than Bob, still feels so much more playable when the third form of resource is introduced into the mix. The question is just how much would be too much? I don't think that energy is going to make Veteran Soldier anymore playable and Aethergeode Miner just doesn't cut it. However, sticking energy on Read the Bones or Doomblade? It feels like a mechanic that is really good and just getting a bad rep in standard.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The issue with energy in standard is that it's parasitic so it only really makes use of cards from the set that it's in which is problematic in terms of format variety/rotation. Modern doesn't have that issue which is nice.
The issue for modern is that we lack a critical mass of energy cards, both produces are payoffs, that are better than what we currently have in Modern. A good example in modern is Bristling Hydra. A standard all star and very powerful, but would you rather play Bristling Hydra or Thrun, the Last Troll. If you can produce enough energy then Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is better than Dark Confidant, but in a format as fast as modern you would need to be producing a lot more energy a lot earlier in the game than is really printable.
The one energy card payoff that has been really tried out in modern is Aetherworks Marvel. Caleb Durward actually did a series with it in modern a couple days ago here https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-modern-marvel/. The deck itself is functional and not bad, but you can really see where having to play cards that are otherwise blanks in order to generate energy really hurts the deck. It just makes it a lot more inconsistent than say a Goryo's Vengeance deck.
The issue with energy in standard is that it's parasitic so it only really makes use of cards from the set that it's in which is problematic in terms of format variety/rotation. Modern doesn't have that issue which is nice.
The issue for modern is that we lack a critical mass of energy cards, both produces are payoffs, that are better than what we currently have in Modern. A good example in modern is Bristling Hydra. A standard all star and very powerful, but would you rather play Bristling Hydra or Thrun, the Last Troll. If you can produce enough energy then Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is better than Dark Confidant, but in a format as fast as modern you would need to be producing a lot more energy a lot earlier in the game than is really printable.
The one energy card payoff that has been really tried out in modern is Aetherworks Marvel. Caleb Durward actually did a series with it in modern a couple days ago here https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-modern-marvel/. The deck itself is functional and not bad, but you can really see where having to play cards that are otherwise blanks in order to generate energy really hurts the deck. It just makes it a lot more inconsistent than say a Goryo's Vengeance deck.
I tried Caleb Durward's Marvel list and went 2-2 at FNM, losing to UG Merfolk and GB Tron, winning against D and T and 4 Color Shadow. In the first 2 matches, I got mana screwed and mana flooded (in game 1 vs. Merfolk) and didn't play a single Marvel or Through the Breach. I don't think the deck really has legs in Modern, but it's somewhat fun! I nearly was going to play Standard RUG Energy last week for Modern, but chickened out. This is a way for me to get my feet wet first.
I have played a lot of Grishoalbrand and I can somewhat agree that this deck feels a bit more consistent. In theory, Grishoalbrand should be more consistent because it's filled with draw spells and Combo, but sometimes you just draw cards and die in the quick Modern format.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Glint-sleeve Siphoner is definitely not strictly worse than Bob.
Bob can sometimes kill you, whereas Siphoner is always optional
I can agree with this. Assuming we had more energy options in the game to make the mechanic work I think this is an alternative that would work fine in modern.
The issue with energy in standard is that it's parasitic so it only really makes use of cards from the set that it's in which is problematic in terms of format variety/rotation. Modern doesn't have that issue which is nice.
The issue for modern is that we lack a critical mass of energy cards, both produces are payoffs, that are better than what we currently have in Modern. A good example in modern is Bristling Hydra. A standard all star and very powerful, but would you rather play Bristling Hydra or Thrun, the Last Troll. If you can produce enough energy then Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is better than Dark Confidant, but in a format as fast as modern you would need to be producing a lot more energy a lot earlier in the game than is really printable.
The one energy card payoff that has been really tried out in modern is Aetherworks Marvel. Caleb Durward actually did a series with it in modern a couple days ago here https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-modern-marvel/. The deck itself is functional and not bad, but you can really see where having to play cards that are otherwise blanks in order to generate energy really hurts the deck. It just makes it a lot more inconsistent than say a Goryo's Vengeance deck.
Right, that's the current problem with energy is that they don't have enough cards that provide energy from the different roles and philosophies available to players in the game. It's a very young mechanic that just hit the game and has a limited number of payoffs, but I think with the right kinds of payoffs and support cards the mechanic is modern viable. In fact, there already are some good payoff cards, it's just a matter of having better cards that grant energy to use them. Live Fast, Die Young, and harnessed lightning are flavorful, but one is a bit over-costed for a removal of it's caliber, reds option needs to be able to hit someone in the face to work in modern, and the draw spell really needed to be Read the Bones + Energy.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Based on the hugely negative impact it seems to be having on Standard (and has had for about a year now), I doubt the mechanic would ever return. And even if it did, it CERTAINLY wouldn't be more powerful than it is now. Doubtful it will ever find a place in Modern.
Energy isn't really the cause of the negativity in standard as much as attrition is. The problem is they released a power block that dwarfed the sets that surrounding it and also, while I'm trying to avoid bringing this up any further, I got this sinking feeling WoTC marketing and management is to blame as well. Someone is pushing wizards to spread themselves very, very thin on the product line and it's been having a lot of far reaching ramifications. Modern is shielded since it doesn't really matter how they do reprints or print new cards: barely anything new breaks into modern and even if they have to spread all super expensive cards across too many sets, modern players mostly buy singles and people tend to be patient... except with Horizon Canopy. Humans doing well made a bunch of people all jump on them.
Still, we probably wont see energy for at least two years and if they print it any sooner it's going to be in commander or something like it. I think the mechanic can become modern viable if more cards are printed that can interact with energy, even if they don't make energy themselves. Winding Constrictor alone is pretty good in energy and boosts the amount available. A new mechanic that works like proliferate can also interact with energy.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Played with energy a bit and it definitely feels like it is close to being modern playable. The main issue is it is somewhat inflexible compared to traditional decks in modern that use the older cards due to the required synergies.
The card that I'm not 100% sure of is what to replace The Scarab God and Hostage Taker with. I think I'll take this over to the deck creation forum. Longtusk Cub feels a lot like a Tarmogoyf that is harder to deal with in this deck because they have no way to interact with the energy unlike the wide variety of things that can blow out a graveyard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I like where energy is in modern. I know I'm one of the few that do, but running a nice little energy package can enhance other deck.
For instance I have a nice little 3 color deck that runs Bob, Glint-sleeve, Machinations, hub, and harvester. That deck is usually good on energy, has a low curve (3 is the highest cc in the deck), good deal of life gain, card advantage, and Mana fix.
Going all in on energy and playing bad cards isn't the way to go.
I like where energy is in modern. I know I'm one of the few that do, but running a nice little energy package can enhance other deck.
For instance I have a nice little 3 color deck that runs Bob, Glint-sleeve, Machinations, hub, and harvester. That deck is usually good on energy, has a low curve (3 is the highest cc in the deck), good deal of life gain, card advantage, and Mana fix.
Going all in on energy and playing bad cards isn't the way to go.
Got a list?
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
This would be as close to the base shell as I can get to. I've tweaked it to play well at our FNM. But the general idea is more what you are looking for.
It focuses on small incriminate CA. Mid to late game you are typically drawing 3 or so cards a turn and getting a sense of inevitability.
First turns you want a discard spell to see what you are up against and then adjust your plans accordingly.
SB, like the main slightly, is in flux with Ful Mage, Essence Scatter, Stony Silence,Extractions, Anguish, Decree, Leylines, etc. Depending on what I'm expecting to show up.
I personally like Negate main as a way to stop the big bombs like Ugin, Karn, Ironworks, Gifts, etc from wrecking you.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Bob can sometimes kill you, whereas Siphoner is always optional
The issue for modern is that we lack a critical mass of energy cards, both produces are payoffs, that are better than what we currently have in Modern. A good example in modern is Bristling Hydra. A standard all star and very powerful, but would you rather play Bristling Hydra or Thrun, the Last Troll. If you can produce enough energy then Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is better than Dark Confidant, but in a format as fast as modern you would need to be producing a lot more energy a lot earlier in the game than is really printable.
The one energy card payoff that has been really tried out in modern is Aetherworks Marvel. Caleb Durward actually did a series with it in modern a couple days ago here https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-modern-marvel/. The deck itself is functional and not bad, but you can really see where having to play cards that are otherwise blanks in order to generate energy really hurts the deck. It just makes it a lot more inconsistent than say a Goryo's Vengeance deck.
I tried Caleb Durward's Marvel list and went 2-2 at FNM, losing to UG Merfolk and GB Tron, winning against D and T and 4 Color Shadow. In the first 2 matches, I got mana screwed and mana flooded (in game 1 vs. Merfolk) and didn't play a single Marvel or Through the Breach. I don't think the deck really has legs in Modern, but it's somewhat fun! I nearly was going to play Standard RUG Energy last week for Modern, but chickened out. This is a way for me to get my feet wet first.
I have played a lot of Grishoalbrand and I can somewhat agree that this deck feels a bit more consistent. In theory, Grishoalbrand should be more consistent because it's filled with draw spells and Combo, but sometimes you just draw cards and die in the quick Modern format.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I can agree with this. Assuming we had more energy options in the game to make the mechanic work I think this is an alternative that would work fine in modern.
Right, that's the current problem with energy is that they don't have enough cards that provide energy from the different roles and philosophies available to players in the game. It's a very young mechanic that just hit the game and has a limited number of payoffs, but I think with the right kinds of payoffs and support cards the mechanic is modern viable. In fact, there already are some good payoff cards, it's just a matter of having better cards that grant energy to use them. Live Fast, Die Young, and harnessed lightning are flavorful, but one is a bit over-costed for a removal of it's caliber, reds option needs to be able to hit someone in the face to work in modern, and the draw spell really needed to be Read the Bones + Energy.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Still, we probably wont see energy for at least two years and if they print it any sooner it's going to be in commander or something like it. I think the mechanic can become modern viable if more cards are printed that can interact with energy, even if they don't make energy themselves. Winding Constrictor alone is pretty good in energy and boosts the amount available. A new mechanic that works like proliferate can also interact with energy.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard Sultai List...
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
3 Hostage Taker
4 Longtusk Cub
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Rogue Refiner
1 The Scarab God
3 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Attune with Aether
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
2 Vraska's Contempt
Land 21
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Fetid Pools
4 Forest
1 Island
2 Swamp
If the mana base gets fixed up to modern standards, Fatal push gets miles better. It's very easy to swap out the bad parts like Vraska's Contempt for real removal like Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay, Go for the Throat, etc. Blossoming Defense could be Vines of Vastwood.
The card that I'm not 100% sure of is what to replace The Scarab God and Hostage Taker with. I think I'll take this over to the deck creation forum. Longtusk Cub feels a lot like a Tarmogoyf that is harder to deal with in this deck because they have no way to interact with the energy unlike the wide variety of things that can blow out a graveyard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
For instance I have a nice little 3 color deck that runs Bob, Glint-sleeve, Machinations, hub, and harvester. That deck is usually good on energy, has a low curve (3 is the highest cc in the deck), good deal of life gain, card advantage, and Mana fix.
Going all in on energy and playing bad cards isn't the way to go.
Got a list?
2 Dark Confident
3 Glint-sleeve Siphoner
3 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Gonti's Machinations
4 Serum Visions
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
3 Fatal Push
3 Negate
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Aether Hub
3 Polluted Delta
1 Godless Shrine
1 Drowned Catacombs
1 Mana Confluence
2 Watery Grave
1 Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamps
1 Flooded Strand
1 Shambling Vent
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Celestial Collinade
This would be as close to the base shell as I can get to. I've tweaked it to play well at our FNM. But the general idea is more what you are looking for.
It focuses on small incriminate CA. Mid to late game you are typically drawing 3 or so cards a turn and getting a sense of inevitability.
First turns you want a discard spell to see what you are up against and then adjust your plans accordingly.
SB, like the main slightly, is in flux with Ful Mage, Essence Scatter, Stony Silence,Extractions, Anguish, Decree, Leylines, etc. Depending on what I'm expecting to show up.
I personally like Negate main as a way to stop the big bombs like Ugin, Karn, Ironworks, Gifts, etc from wrecking you.