Skeptical that smaller sets would yield More modern playable cards. You need fringe chaff for limited to make it interesting.my beef with set size and frequency is how lousy the card names and themes are these days. Most of the cards in rivals have either nonsensical names or mechanics or both. If they didn't have to crank out so many cards per year maybe they'd be a bit more slick and coherent. Also flavor text these days is largely atrociously cheesy
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Just to mention that Sam Stoddard hasn't left Wizards of the Coast. He stopped writing the "Latest Developments" column because it was replaced with the "Play Design" column and he's not a part of the Play Design team. He must be a part of the Set Design team now.
Iirc Pat also classified Stoneforge Mystic and Eye of Ugin as Tier 2, putting those in the same category is ludicrous. I reckon if he'd have given it a bit more thought and not answer those on the spot he'd have come down with slightly different classifications.
'the war on blue' is real. The war on magic that is stack heavy, that could work without permanents on the battlefield, how long has it been?
Since Caw-Blade and Delver demonstrated it was necessary to pull back on blue's power level. It's really not the power of counterspells that's killed control in standard - one of the strongest decks in RTR-THS standard was a control deck that didn't run a single creature outside of Mutavault, with Dissolve as its primary counterspell. The real problem is the lack of four-mana unconditional wrath effects.
I know this may be off topic, but I have been discussing amongst some of the higher players I deeply respect; What if they just stop printing 200+ card sets? Like, why not aim for 150? Hundreds of cards each year get printed and are unplayable in Limited, Commander, and Standard. Limited actually might be a more consistent format, that could be followed, and entertaining to watch, instead of sifting through complete crap each game. It would actually make it easier to broadcast as well.
The careful, and precise impact it could have on both Modern and Legacy would be amazing. Instead of printing random mechanics that just randomly break decks (ex; Amulet of Vigor)
This is a terrible idea. Small set limited environments have been tried, and they always turn out terrible. Stop trying to "fix" a format that's one of the most popular in the game just because you personally don't like it.
I'm pretty sure you're also vastly overestimating how may "useless" cards there are. I'd estimate close to 70% of a set's commons are playable in limited even if they're not optimal, (Monastery Flock was actually a decent card in its format) and another 15% are cards that have a constructed use even if they're no good in limited. (Naturalize variants for sideboards, or build-around cards like the aforementioned Amulet of Vigor)
On a more general level, there's only so many modern-playable cards possible that aren't simply straight power creep. Take 1cmc targeted discard spells, for example: No deck is going to run more than 8 of them. (even 8rack, since they need to be able to get lands out of your hand) Any new modern-playable 1cmc targeted discard spell would have to supplant Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize.
Brennan has been playing the Mono G Devotion decks for weeks now, and streaming it with it non stop. He wrote an article about the reasons why he picked it. The reasons are strictly psychological ones. Even on stream, he has been saying that in Modern he has been feeling so much misery, he has been locked out of turn 2 in so many situations(people playing SSG+Blood Moon on Turn 2), got land screwed while the opp was there to even land hate him, that he actually decided to go into a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" situation, thus the Mono G devotion/ponza choice he has been going with.
Unfortunately, the deck is not such a competitive choice, even if it is playable for sure. I have played so much against it, and I found out that this deck has a massive problem on the draw. While on the play, and going t1 enchantment on land, turn 2 something powerful, has a high winning chance. Even on the draw, as a GDS player that I am, I found out that if I know the opp is on it or if I don't play a sorcery t1 by accident and have a stub and a scour in hand and wait and stub the enchantment, I have a very good chance of winning with it.
If you study how the deck plays out, it's a duable task that you will understand it's real problems.
Re: Patrick Sullivan breaking down the tiers of banned Modern cards, I agree about everything but the T3 breakdown of DRS. He said "we can have a talk about this card". That's outrageous, if you ask me. But agreed on everything else.
I remember that article. It was the one where he tried arguing for an 8th and 9th Edition ban, and also tried convincing us/himself how Mono G Devotion is actually viable. Spoiler alert: as most of us know, it really isn't.
It's amusing that DeCandio continues to be terrible at Modern and continues to attribute those failures to the format and not himself. True, he's tried to be more measured in the last like 2-3 weeks, but for much of 2017 he was one of those authors I could consistently count on to write hyperbole about Modern with little/no evidence. Fitting that he went 2-x drop in the first big Modern event of the year with a bizarre deck choice.
Big mana is completely crushed going into Day 2 and there's extensive color/archetype diversity. The PT obviously matters more but this is a promising shift after the bad T8 of GP OKC.
EDIT: To be clear, the T8 of this event will matter more than the Day 2, but this is a good start to Sunday.
Big mana is completely crushed going into Day 2 and there's extensive color/archetype diversity. The PT obviously matters more but this is a promising shift after the bad T8 of GP OKC.
EDIT: To be clear, the T8 of this event will matter more than the Day 2, but this is a good start to Sunday.
I think you're still underestimating what the PT will look like when the bigger names are fighting for serious money.
I do think Shadow could be concerning far into the future though, it depends if WOTC feels the format of best deck with too many 50/50s is solved. No, I don't think it's happening after the PT or anything like that, but I think it's being watched.
Big mana was crushed. What really confuses me is that all those top decks actually look healthy for jund and junk to attack so it's surprising there isn't a little more GBx.
Wishing for the game to fail like that isn't good for the health of the game as a whole. I think Stoddard being gone is good, he was doing an awful job. I think he knew he was done after missing the saheeli combo that impersonated twin
Missing that combo alone was bad. Missing that combo and then bearing some degree of responsibility for a Standard with so many bannings is basically unforgivable.
Why would Stoddard be considered to be any more to blame for that than any other developers... particularly Erik Lauer, who was the head of development? The blame for Stoddard confuses me. Well, I mean, I get it, he's the most public of the developers so of course he gets the most blame, but it still doesn't make sense to blame him more than the other developers and certainly to blame him more than the guy who was actually in charge of development. Even if we focus simply on the sets themselves, Stoddard wasn't even the head developer for Aether Revolt, that was Ben Hayes.
Wishing for the game to fail like that isn't good for the health of the game as a whole. I think Stoddard being gone is good, he was doing an awful job. I think he knew he was done after missing the saheeli combo that impersonated twin
Missing that combo alone was bad. Missing that combo and then bearing some degree of responsibility for a Standard with so many bannings is basically unforgivable.
I still think coming out and saying they didn't know about the combo was the dumbest thing ever. Even if you didn't know you lie and say you did and that you thought some answer cards would keep it in check and that the ban system can clear it up. It was a travesty from conception to end.
Such a lie would have been very difficult to believe considering how much better the quality of answers was back in the TwinExarch era of Standard. If they said they actually saw it, then that means one of two things:
1) They're such complete morons that they deliberately put an instant-win two-card combo into Standard while not including relevant hate for it. This goes well beyond mistakes like printing Emrakul without graveyard hate, which was already pretty dumb.
2) They're lying.
Whichever of the two players decide on is much worse from a PR perspective than them just admitting they screwed up.
And then it turns out some guy was 11-0 with G Devotion.
Just because someone goes 11-0 with a deck, that doesn't necessarily make it a good/safe choice overall. We've seen plenty of sweet rogue performances at large events that never panned out later. Some of those were awesome metagame calls like Humans. Others are one-and-dones like random Elves showings.
I think you're still underestimating what the PT will look like when the bigger names are fighting for serious money.
I don't think I/we're underestimating that at all. We're always talking about how the PT is a little worrisome and that there are secretly 2-3 best decks in Modern.
You don't have to explain that to me. I'm not the one spending life here talking as is a specific top8 in a tournament means something... Or a Challenge.
Specific T8s matter as part of a larger pattern. For example, if this T8 is all Tron, that would have me really worried for the PT given the T8 at GP OKC. Also, it's not really a productive approach to suggest anyone is "spending life" talking about stuff here. This is a forum we're all voluntarily participating in with varied opinions. No need to jab at any of that. If that wasn't your intent then never mind and sorry for misreading it. But if it was, consciously or unconsciously, it's probably not the best approach to the conversation.
Wizards: WE DECLARE WAR ON BLUE
Developers: Reprint opt and print search for azcanta, and torrential gearhulk, and constantly pushing the bounds with new counterspells in an attempt to fit balanced counterspells into the game (see that goofy raid counterspell, which is not good, but evidence that they are trying, and Censor).
The whole persecuted blue mage thing is ridiculous. Let's knock that off. Wizards is being slow and careful with their best format, I for one am willing to be patient and wait.
While I think there is strong evidence (based on Logic Knot's performance) that counterspell would be fine, I think we can let Wizards take some time coming to that.
Wizards: WE DECLARE WAR ON BLUE
Developers: Reprint opt and print search for azcanta, and torrential gearhulk, and constantly pushing the bounds with new counterspells in an attempt to fit balanced counterspells into the game (see that goofy raid counterspell, which is not good, but evidence that they are trying, and Censor).
The whole persecuted blue mage thing is ridiculous. Let's knock that off. Wizards is being slow and careful with their best format, I for one am willing to be patient and wait.
While I think there is strong evidence (based on Logic Knot's performance) that counterspell would be fine, I think we can let Wizards take some time coming to that.
Except we've been waiting about 6 years now to get something better than Mana Leak, or even on par with it.
Blue decks have been posting results with mana leak and logic knot, so I don't really blame wizards for being cautious. And also having to wait for a standard environment where it's not an issue to print something like that. There was a pretty big chunk of standard recently where even mana leak would have been a problem (torrential gearhulk driven shenanigans).
My expectation is we will see a few more trial balloons before we see Counterspell, but I do think the threat power to mana cost ratio has gotten to the point where it's viable even in some standard formats, and I suspect Wizards will see that before too long.
It's actually pretty possible counterspell would have been fine in both the Emrakul and Vehicles standards, just not the Saheeli one.
If you want to play blue right now there is a decent remand deck (UR Breach) and a decent logic knot deck (UWR control) and two fringe options (Grixis / UW ) that have both posted some results. It's really not all that dire. I honestly never expected to see people playing Electrolyze again but here we are
And it wasn't that long ago that UW was fluctuating between tiers either, people just haven't figured out the right shell yet with Search and the new meta. So probably there will wind up being 3 tier 2+ blue decks in the format, and 4 if you count storm (which obviously I don't personally).
Blue decks have been posting results with mana leak and logic knot, so I don't really blame wizards for being cautious. And also having to wait for a standard environment where it's not an issue to print something like that. There was a pretty big chunk of standard recently where even mana leak would have been a problem (torrential gearhulk driven shenanigans).
There haven't been any real Standard environments where it'd be a problem to print Mana Leak, except for maybe those where Snapcaster Mage was around and even there the problem was Snapcaster Mage. You cite "Torrential Gearhulk driven shenanigans" but why? As far as I can remember, Torrential Gearhulk decks were never the best in Standard. They weren't the best after Kaladesh was released, they weren't the best after the bannings, they weren't the best after the second round of bannings, and weren't the best after the third round or in the present. Sure, the card will sometimes sneak into good decks, but only as a 1 or 2-of and it usually isn't played at all. Torrential Gearhulk was never a big player in Standard. Maybe the argument is that with Mana Leak it would've been, but that seems speculative and I don't think would've risen them up to be a clear best deck.
It's actually pretty possible counterspell would have been fine in both the Emrakul and Vehicles standards, just not the Saheeli one.
How would it not have been just fine in the Saheeli Standard? I suppose the argument might be it'd put Saheeli over the top, but Saheeli was already way over the top. So at most, Counterspell would've taken a problem that was so big it was banworthy... and kept it banworthy.
Blue decks have been posting results with mana leak and logic knot, so I don't really blame wizards for being cautious. And also having to wait for a standard environment where it's not an issue to print something like that. There was a pretty big chunk of standard recently where even mana leak would have been a problem (torrential gearhulk driven shenanigans).
There haven't been any real Standard environments where it'd be a problem to print Mana Leak, except for maybe those where Snapcaster Mage was around and even there the problem was Snapcaster Mage. You cite "Torrential Gearhulk driven shenanigans" but why? As far as I can remember, Torrential Gearhulk decks were never the best in Standard. They weren't the best after Kaladesh was released, they weren't the best after the bannings, they weren't the best after the second round of bannings, and weren't the best after the third round or in the present. Sure, the card will sometimes sneak into good decks, but only as a 1 or 2-of and it usually isn't played at all. Torrential Gearhulk was never a big player in Standard. Maybe the argument is that with Mana Leak it would've been, but that seems speculative and I don't think would've risen them up to be a clear best deck.
It's actually pretty possible counterspell would have been fine in both the Emrakul and Vehicles standards, just not the Saheeli one.
How would it not have been just fine in the Saheeli Standard? I suppose the argument might be it'd put Saheeli over the top, but Saheeli was already way over the top. So at most, Counterspell would've taken a problem that was so big it was banworthy... and kept it banworthy.
As I recall, we did have a high profile final (think it was a Pro Tour?) featuring a control mirror (Shota on Blue-Red I think) that used Gearhulk. While it was really interesting/awesome to watch, I can only assume WotC was less than pleased with the fact it happened. They put LSV to explain almost literally every single play and minutiae to try and keep the audience up to speed. One of the games ended because somebody ran out of threats and conceded while holding a seemingly advantageous field, which is the kind of thing not-as-hardcore viewers probably can't parse and not the kind of gameplay Wizards envisions as good.
With this said, I don't think the deck took off after said incident...
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
As I recall, we did have a high profile final (think it was a Pro Tour?) featuring a control mirror (Shota on Blue-Red I think) that used Gearhulk. While it was really interesting/awesome to watch, I can only assume WotC was less than pleased with the fact it happened. They put LSV to explain almost literally every single play and minutiae to try and keep the audience up to speed. One of the games ended because somebody ran out of threats and conceded while holding a seemingly advantageous field, which is the kind of thing not-as-hardcore viewers probably can't parse and not the kind of gameplay Wizards envisions as good.
With this said, I don't think the deck took off after said incident...
This is less of a problem of Control match ups "not being fun to watch" and Wizards not having a coverage team adequate enough to make the match entertaining.
I mean hell if you go on Twitch right now SCG is pulling like 500-1000 more viewers than the official MTG Stream of the GP this weekend, while SCG is on an hour long break.
And yes, with concerns to Magic coverage, Cedric and Sullivan are the gold standard for what you want from commentators. But that Wizards doesn't seem to be putting an effort in to getting that says a lot.
I mean ***** did you guys see that puppet thing this morning? That was so stupid.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
As I recall, we did have a high profile final (think it was a Pro Tour?) featuring a control mirror (Shota on Blue-Red I think) that used Gearhulk. While it was really interesting/awesome to watch, I can only assume WotC was less than pleased with the fact it happened. They put LSV to explain almost literally every single play and minutiae to try and keep the audience up to speed. One of the games ended because somebody ran out of threats and conceded while holding a seemingly advantageous field, which is the kind of thing not-as-hardcore viewers probably can't parse and not the kind of gameplay Wizards envisions as good.
With this said, I don't think the deck took off after said incident...
This was mostly due to control being a meta call with aetherworks marvel being the deck to beat, which makes sense because the rest of the format ended up shifting to be hostile to control eventually. At least if I have my time frames right in my head for standard. I don't play it so I don't always follow pro tours and the like outside of drafting.
No, not everything is useless. The data is useless. And so are the arguments based on that data.
Which data exactly is useless these days? I agree most of the tournament data in the last year isn't particularly helpful because N is too small and events can be very far apart. Our MTGO data is even spottier. But that doesn't mean all data is categorically useless. For instance, I can indisputably say, based on tournament data, that top Modern performers at SCG Opens do as well in their format as top Legacy performers do in Legacy Opens. This means when players like DeCandio complain about doing poorly at a Modern Open due to variance being higher than in Legacy Opens, we know they are wrong.
As for tiers, to the extent that we can still make them, they remain a strong method of predicting which decks you will probably face (and need to beat) at the next big event. It's just impossible to make reliable MTGO tiers anymore.
Now you can do what you want, for example base you opinions on that data, and then be utterly wrong because the data means nothing. You can also believe I'm super wrong regarding everything, for all I care.
Okay, so when you're totally wrong because you didn't look at any field data, will you care then? When your argument boils down to "I'm right because I'm right, and you can just be wrong, I don't care," not many people are convinced.
If anyone asks me what are the best decks in Modern, I can't even say the data is the last thing I'm going to look at. It would be a lie because I won't look at the data at all. Because anyone that plays Modern knows what are the best decks in Modern and what Modern decks are garbage.
Look it looks like GDS is the best deck in Modern according to the data. But it was the 5th the other day, barely tier 1! And wait wasn't Titanshift a tier 1 deck I thought? No lol it's now actually not in the top10. Let's see what Titanshift is next week huh, the Challenge will tell us! And Lantern, I thought it was great but no it turns out it's mediocre tier 3! And wasn't Tron actually mediocre for so long? Oh wait the data says it's tier 1 now because of reasons! Maybe next week is going to be tier 2 because the data from the Columbus, Ohio SCG Open says The Metagame (like this, in caps) has reacted!
So here's how I'm parsing this: "Because the MTGsalvation team can't keep up with how fast the Meta shifts with limited data, Tiers are BS." Otherwise, I'm not really sure what this is supposed to mean.
EDIT: The only REAL data that I will look at is real WINRATE data. Bring me a breakdown of 1000 matches with Jeskai and we have a data-backed discussion about Jeskai.
There haven't been any real Standard environments where it'd be a problem to print Mana Leak, except for maybe those where Snapcaster Mage was around and even there the problem was Snapcaster Mage.
It definitely would have been a problem in RTR-THS standard, where esper control was already a top-tier deck while running Dissolve.It might have helped THS-KTK standard where Abzan was completely dominant. I can't imagine it being healthy in KTK-BFZ standard with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and four-color goodstuff decks everywhere - it would likely lead to one of the WUBR decks dominating. I don't think it would have made a difference after that; Collected Company decks and Emrakul/Mardu Vehicles decks were dominant enough that I think Mana Leak wouldn't be able to shift them. Aetherworks Marvel, Copycat, and Temur Energy could all play Mana Leak themselves anyway.
There haven't been any real Standard environments where it'd be a problem to print Mana Leak, except for maybe those where Snapcaster Mage was around and even there the problem was Snapcaster Mage.
It definitely would have been a problem in RTR-THS standard, where esper control was already a top-tier deck while running Dissolve.It might have helped THS-KTK standard where Abzan was completely dominant. I can't imagine it being healthy in KTK-BFZ standard with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and four-color goodstuff decks everywhere - it would likely lead to one of the WUBR decks dominating. I don't think it would have made a difference after that; Collected Company decks and Emrakul/Mardu Vehicles decks were dominant enough that I think Mana Leak wouldn't be able to shift them. Aetherworks Marvel, Copycat, and Temur Energy could all play Mana Leak themselves anyway.
RTR-THS: UWx Control was never better than being the third best deck and sometimes wasn't even there. Calling it a "top tier" deck seems a massive exaggeration. And let's remember the format we're talking about: This was when Monoblack Devotion was everywhere, nearly 1/3 of the format. Practically anything that would have benefitted a deck other than Monoblack Devotion would have been an improvement, and Mana Leak sure doesn't go into Monoblack Devotion. Far from being a problem, Mana Leak would have likely made the format better. It certainly wouldn't have made it worse.
KTK-BFZ: Abzan was about as dominant in this format as THS-KTK, so the same logic that you used to say it would be good in THS-KTK should apply to this as well. I don't see this ending up any worse than having two dominant archetypes (Abzan and Jace decks) instead of just one dominant deck, which is still a step in the right direction.
Well commentated I thought as well. I mean I could go on about how we need more magic like that, and that it would save Standard, and therefore the game, but well, nobody wants to hear that.
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* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
He's a great standard player but he just seems so off sync in modern
Since Caw-Blade and Delver demonstrated it was necessary to pull back on blue's power level. It's really not the power of counterspells that's killed control in standard - one of the strongest decks in RTR-THS standard was a control deck that didn't run a single creature outside of Mutavault, with Dissolve as its primary counterspell. The real problem is the lack of four-mana unconditional wrath effects.
This is a terrible idea. Small set limited environments have been tried, and they always turn out terrible. Stop trying to "fix" a format that's one of the most popular in the game just because you personally don't like it.
I'm pretty sure you're also vastly overestimating how may "useless" cards there are. I'd estimate close to 70% of a set's commons are playable in limited even if they're not optimal, (Monastery Flock was actually a decent card in its format) and another 15% are cards that have a constructed use even if they're no good in limited. (Naturalize variants for sideboards, or build-around cards like the aforementioned Amulet of Vigor)
On a more general level, there's only so many modern-playable cards possible that aren't simply straight power creep. Take 1cmc targeted discard spells, for example: No deck is going to run more than 8 of them. (even 8rack, since they need to be able to get lands out of your hand) Any new modern-playable 1cmc targeted discard spell would have to supplant Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize.
I remember that article. It was the one where he tried arguing for an 8th and 9th Edition ban, and also tried convincing us/himself how Mono G Devotion is actually viable. Spoiler alert: as most of us know, it really isn't.
It's amusing that DeCandio continues to be terrible at Modern and continues to attribute those failures to the format and not himself. True, he's tried to be more measured in the last like 2-3 weeks, but for much of 2017 he was one of those authors I could consistently count on to write hyperbole about Modern with little/no evidence. Fitting that he went 2-x drop in the first big Modern event of the year with a bizarre deck choice.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/4228_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html
Big mana is completely crushed going into Day 2 and there's extensive color/archetype diversity. The PT obviously matters more but this is a promising shift after the bad T8 of GP OKC.
EDIT: To be clear, the T8 of this event will matter more than the Day 2, but this is a good start to Sunday.
I think you're still underestimating what the PT will look like when the bigger names are fighting for serious money.
I do think Shadow could be concerning far into the future though, it depends if WOTC feels the format of best deck with too many 50/50s is solved. No, I don't think it's happening after the PT or anything like that, but I think it's being watched.
Big mana was crushed. What really confuses me is that all those top decks actually look healthy for jund and junk to attack so it's surprising there isn't a little more GBx.
People certainly came prepared for big mana
Such a lie would have been very difficult to believe considering how much better the quality of answers was back in the TwinExarch era of Standard. If they said they actually saw it, then that means one of two things:
1) They're such complete morons that they deliberately put an instant-win two-card combo into Standard while not including relevant hate for it. This goes well beyond mistakes like printing Emrakul without graveyard hate, which was already pretty dumb.
2) They're lying.
Whichever of the two players decide on is much worse from a PR perspective than them just admitting they screwed up.
Just because someone goes 11-0 with a deck, that doesn't necessarily make it a good/safe choice overall. We've seen plenty of sweet rogue performances at large events that never panned out later. Some of those were awesome metagame calls like Humans. Others are one-and-dones like random Elves showings.
I don't think I/we're underestimating that at all. We're always talking about how the PT is a little worrisome and that there are secretly 2-3 best decks in Modern.
Specific T8s matter as part of a larger pattern. For example, if this T8 is all Tron, that would have me really worried for the PT given the T8 at GP OKC. Also, it's not really a productive approach to suggest anyone is "spending life" talking about stuff here. This is a forum we're all voluntarily participating in with varied opinions. No need to jab at any of that. If that wasn't your intent then never mind and sorry for misreading it. But if it was, consciously or unconsciously, it's probably not the best approach to the conversation.
Developers: Reprint opt and print search for azcanta, and torrential gearhulk, and constantly pushing the bounds with new counterspells in an attempt to fit balanced counterspells into the game (see that goofy raid counterspell, which is not good, but evidence that they are trying, and Censor).
The whole persecuted blue mage thing is ridiculous. Let's knock that off. Wizards is being slow and careful with their best format, I for one am willing to be patient and wait.
While I think there is strong evidence (based on Logic Knot's performance) that counterspell would be fine, I think we can let Wizards take some time coming to that.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
My expectation is we will see a few more trial balloons before we see Counterspell, but I do think the threat power to mana cost ratio has gotten to the point where it's viable even in some standard formats, and I suspect Wizards will see that before too long.
It's actually pretty possible counterspell would have been fine in both the Emrakul and Vehicles standards, just not the Saheeli one.
If you want to play blue right now there is a decent remand deck (UR Breach) and a decent logic knot deck (UWR control) and two fringe options (Grixis / UW ) that have both posted some results. It's really not all that dire. I honestly never expected to see people playing Electrolyze again but here we are
And it wasn't that long ago that UW was fluctuating between tiers either, people just haven't figured out the right shell yet with Search and the new meta. So probably there will wind up being 3 tier 2+ blue decks in the format, and 4 if you count storm (which obviously I don't personally).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
How would it not have been just fine in the Saheeli Standard? I suppose the argument might be it'd put Saheeli over the top, but Saheeli was already way over the top. So at most, Counterspell would've taken a problem that was so big it was banworthy... and kept it banworthy.
As I recall, we did have a high profile final (think it was a Pro Tour?) featuring a control mirror (Shota on Blue-Red I think) that used Gearhulk. While it was really interesting/awesome to watch, I can only assume WotC was less than pleased with the fact it happened. They put LSV to explain almost literally every single play and minutiae to try and keep the audience up to speed. One of the games ended because somebody ran out of threats and conceded while holding a seemingly advantageous field, which is the kind of thing not-as-hardcore viewers probably can't parse and not the kind of gameplay Wizards envisions as good.
With this said, I don't think the deck took off after said incident...
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
This is less of a problem of Control match ups "not being fun to watch" and Wizards not having a coverage team adequate enough to make the match entertaining.
I mean hell if you go on Twitch right now SCG is pulling like 500-1000 more viewers than the official MTG Stream of the GP this weekend, while SCG is on an hour long break.
And yes, with concerns to Magic coverage, Cedric and Sullivan are the gold standard for what you want from commentators. But that Wizards doesn't seem to be putting an effort in to getting that says a lot.
I mean ***** did you guys see that puppet thing this morning? That was so stupid.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
This was mostly due to control being a meta call with aetherworks marvel being the deck to beat, which makes sense because the rest of the format ended up shifting to be hostile to control eventually. At least if I have my time frames right in my head for standard. I don't play it so I don't always follow pro tours and the like outside of drafting.
Which data exactly is useless these days? I agree most of the tournament data in the last year isn't particularly helpful because N is too small and events can be very far apart. Our MTGO data is even spottier. But that doesn't mean all data is categorically useless. For instance, I can indisputably say, based on tournament data, that top Modern performers at SCG Opens do as well in their format as top Legacy performers do in Legacy Opens. This means when players like DeCandio complain about doing poorly at a Modern Open due to variance being higher than in Legacy Opens, we know they are wrong.
As for tiers, to the extent that we can still make them, they remain a strong method of predicting which decks you will probably face (and need to beat) at the next big event. It's just impossible to make reliable MTGO tiers anymore.
No. No, you did not. You're dismissing the data, without any actual counterexample or data of your own. Not the same thing.
Okay, so when you're totally wrong because you didn't look at any field data, will you care then? When your argument boils down to "I'm right because I'm right, and you can just be wrong, I don't care," not many people are convinced.
So here's how I'm parsing this: "Because the MTGsalvation team can't keep up with how fast the Meta shifts with limited data, Tiers are BS." Otherwise, I'm not really sure what this is supposed to mean.
Good backtrack there.
It definitely would have been a problem in RTR-THS standard, where esper control was already a top-tier deck while running Dissolve.It might have helped THS-KTK standard where Abzan was completely dominant. I can't imagine it being healthy in KTK-BFZ standard with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and four-color goodstuff decks everywhere - it would likely lead to one of the WUBR decks dominating. I don't think it would have made a difference after that; Collected Company decks and Emrakul/Mardu Vehicles decks were dominant enough that I think Mana Leak wouldn't be able to shift them. Aetherworks Marvel, Copycat, and Temur Energy could all play Mana Leak themselves anyway.
KTK-BFZ: Abzan was about as dominant in this format as THS-KTK, so the same logic that you used to say it would be good in THS-KTK should apply to this as well. I don't see this ending up any worse than having two dominant archetypes (Abzan and Jace decks) instead of just one dominant deck, which is still a step in the right direction.
Spirits
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Spirits