So we all know that Splinter Twin is banned, and this thread wasn't created to talk about Twin at all. What I want to talk about is what a Twin shell might look like today. It's been some time since the card was banned, and we have had a lot of cards printed since. If we automatically cut 9 cards out of the deck for "the combo" what would the other 51 look like? Grixis, UR, RUG, whichever you would play in today's meta.
Full disclosure, I've considered running a different combo shoehorned into a twin shell, but at this point all the information on Twin is dated.
I feel like grixis is the best suited color-combo for a twin deck if it were part of the format. Access to fatal push, kolaghan's command and tasigur makes grixis better than straight UR, jeskai or Temur in my opinion.
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--> Modern <-- RBUSplinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBU UUUMono U TronUUU GRGGR TronGRG GWURKnight FallGWUR
I feel like grixis is the best suited color-combo for a twin deck if it were part of the format. Access to fatal push, kolaghan's command and tasigur makes grixis better than straight UR, jeskai or Temur in my opinion.
I loved the Grixis shell, but it makes it extremely difficult to play Blood Moon. Unfortunately I didn't get to play it enough before the ban to see if it was worth the black splash over playing Blood Moon. Maybe it would be today, with the addition of Fatal Push, but Blood Moon also wreaks havoc among many of the top decks (GDS, Titanshift, Eldrazi, etc). I would assume the two (UR and Grixis) would coexist with different game plans, just like they used to. But Grixis would be a little more popular thanks to Fatal Push.
I feel like grixis is the best suited color-combo for a twin deck if it were part of the format. Access to fatal push, kolaghan's command and tasigur makes grixis better than straight UR, jeskai or Temur in my opinion.
I loved the Grixis shell, but it makes it extremely difficult to play Blood Moon. Unfortunately I didn't get to play it enough before the ban to see if it was worth the black splash over playing Blood Moon. Maybe it would be today, with the addition of Fatal Push, but Blood Moon also wreaks havoc among many of the top decks (GDS, Titanshift, Eldrazi, etc). I would assume the two (UR and Grixis) would coexist with different game plans, just like they used to. But Grixis would be a little more popular thanks to Fatal Push.
I 100% agree with that assessment. Meta game would likely have a lot to do with it as well. My favorite version of twin that I played up until it got banned was a UR with the slightest black splash. Tasigur had often felt clunky with the combo, so this version only splashed for k command 1 murderous cut and 1 terminate. It was a lot of fun and still got to play blood moon very well. Played out like UR twin, but with better removal options.
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--> Modern <-- RBUSplinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBU UUUMono U TronUUU GRGGR TronGRG GWURKnight FallGWUR
I mean, twin almost exists today if youre willing to bite the bullet and accept a turn 5 kill over turn 4, although its almost always going to be strictly UR because of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker's RRR casting cost requirement. We've had random cute blue spells printed. Twin would love Opt as well
I mean, twin almost exists today if youre willing to bite the bullet and accept a turn 5 kill over turn 4, although its almost always going to be strictly UR because of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker's RRR casting cost requirement. We've had random cute blue spells printed. Twin would love Opt as well
There is a big difference between 4 & 5 mana, which prevents that kind of twin-similar deck to be top-tier
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--> Modern <-- RBUSplinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBU UUUMono U TronUUU GRGGR TronGRG GWURKnight FallGWUR
If jeskai I would imagine some of the supporting cast for jeskai saheeli or 4C saheeli in modern (without spreading seas probably) is where twin would be.
I highly doubt censor or supreme will are where the deck would want to be but answers that can dig to combo pieces could be a big deal and we all know how lauded cryptic command is.
Temur hasn't really gotten anything crazy since the ban that would push it over the top I think.
I can see grixis DS just being the stronger grixis deck honestly. I don't know if you have enough GY filling spells to get value from delve. Any of the lili's don't support the combo plan. Discard can protect the combo I guess.
I guess opt would be fine, but they would still run SV because it just goes deeper. Honestly I would also run ancestral vision as well maybe. They didn't always have it turn 4 and 3 cards moving into turn 5+ is a big deal for a combo/control deck.
I mean, twin almost exists today if youre willing to bite the bullet and accept a turn 5 kill over turn 4, although its almost always going to be strictly UR because of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker's RRR casting cost requirement. We've had random cute blue spells printed. Twin would love Opt as well
The 5 mana is a cost, but the RRR cost is much worse than 5 mana. If Kiki was 3RR instead of 2RRR, it'd probably be playable. But 2RRR is almost impossible to get to when the deck otherwise never wants more than 1 or 2 red lands.
If I built a list today, I would probably make it one of two ways: Straight UR with main deck Blood Moon, banking on Moon stealing games away from Valakut, Eldrazi, and Shadow, while also being able to threaten a fragile combo that is easy to interact with. Or Grixis value, running fewer combo pieces and more Tasigurs, K Commands, Push, and good black cards. Black helps make the deck more well rounded, but stretches the combo thin and doesn't really want to play Blood Moon.
I think Twin today would be 2 colors. If you look through the meta, the trend is that unless you have a good reason to be losing life, the fewer colors, and the more pain free your mana is, the better.
Grixis Twin would probably be more popular due to having a more budget friendly manabase (which is what originally gained it popularity), but UR would be superior.
If I built a list today, I would probably make it one of two ways: Straight UR with main deck Blood Moon, banking on Moon stealing games away from Valakut, Eldrazi, and Shadow, while also being able to threaten a fragile combo that is easy to interact with. Or Grixis value, running fewer combo pieces and more Tasigurs, K Commands, Push, and good black cards. Black helps make the deck more well rounded, but stretches the combo thin and doesn't really want to play Blood Moon.
T1 would look totally different with UR Twin in the format. T1 is pretty much defined right now by pain free mana, and a weakness to Blood Moon. If Blood Moon were a bigger player, a lot of decks that got pushed to T2 due to their more painful mana, would likely rise back up to T1 due to their fetchlands getting them basics.
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Full disclosure, I've considered running a different combo shoehorned into a twin shell, but at this point all the information on Twin is dated.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
I loved the Grixis shell, but it makes it extremely difficult to play Blood Moon. Unfortunately I didn't get to play it enough before the ban to see if it was worth the black splash over playing Blood Moon. Maybe it would be today, with the addition of Fatal Push, but Blood Moon also wreaks havoc among many of the top decks (GDS, Titanshift, Eldrazi, etc). I would assume the two (UR and Grixis) would coexist with different game plans, just like they used to. But Grixis would be a little more popular thanks to Fatal Push.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I 100% agree with that assessment. Meta game would likely have a lot to do with it as well. My favorite version of twin that I played up until it got banned was a UR with the slightest black splash. Tasigur had often felt clunky with the combo, so this version only splashed for k command 1 murderous cut and 1 terminate. It was a lot of fun and still got to play blood moon very well. Played out like UR twin, but with better removal options.
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
There is a big difference between 4 & 5 mana, which prevents that kind of twin-similar deck to be top-tier
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
I highly doubt censor or supreme will are where the deck would want to be but answers that can dig to combo pieces could be a big deal and we all know how lauded cryptic command is.
torrential gearhulk if you side out the combo is probably fine? thing in the ice from the side if they pull push out may be okay?
Temur hasn't really gotten anything crazy since the ban that would push it over the top I think.
I can see grixis DS just being the stronger grixis deck honestly. I don't know if you have enough GY filling spells to get value from delve. Any of the lili's don't support the combo plan. Discard can protect the combo I guess.
I guess opt would be fine, but they would still run SV because it just goes deeper. Honestly I would also run ancestral vision as well maybe. They didn't always have it turn 4 and 3 cards moving into turn 5+ is a big deal for a combo/control deck.
I dunno, just my thoughts.
If I built a list today, I would probably make it one of two ways: Straight UR with main deck Blood Moon, banking on Moon stealing games away from Valakut, Eldrazi, and Shadow, while also being able to threaten a fragile combo that is easy to interact with. Or Grixis value, running fewer combo pieces and more Tasigurs, K Commands, Push, and good black cards. Black helps make the deck more well rounded, but stretches the combo thin and doesn't really want to play Blood Moon.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Grixis Twin would probably be more popular due to having a more budget friendly manabase (which is what originally gained it popularity), but UR would be superior.
T1 would look totally different with UR Twin in the format. T1 is pretty much defined right now by pain free mana, and a weakness to Blood Moon. If Blood Moon were a bigger player, a lot of decks that got pushed to T2 due to their more painful mana, would likely rise back up to T1 due to their fetchlands getting them basics.