I don't see any deck that would want Jace, it just makes a bad token and dies to anything (like a spirit token) being at 1-loyalty.
It is probably one of the worst 3-mana PW's ever printed.
How is it comparable to a spirit token? If your opponent uses a bolt or push on the token then you are already winning. No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0. The only playable modern card that messes with jace/the token is electrolyze. You sound like the people who were calling liliana last hope/grim flayer/collected brutality garbage cards.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Modern unfortunately is the death of clever, though.
Agreed. Some day in the future Wizards is going to print a card or effect that lets you transform cards with little investment. It may not be within the next couple of years but I can see it happening 3 to 5 years out. I'm trying to think long term not short term on these.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I don't see any deck that would want Jace, it just makes a bad token and dies to anything (like a spirit token) being at 1-loyalty.
It is probably one of the worst 3-mana PW's ever printed.
How is it comparable to a spirit token? If your opponent uses a bolt or push on the token then you are already winning. No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0. The only playable modern card that messes with jace/the token is electrolyze. You sound like the people who were calling liliana last hope/grim flayer/collected brutality garbage cards.
D90Dennis14 means that after Jace, Cunning Castaway ETB, then makes a (2/2) token, he's at 1 loyalty and weak enough to get pegged off by a 1/1 Spirit token (with Flying to get past Jace CC's grounded token). D90Dennis14 doesn't think the token is worth much, possibly to the point of being easily ignored for evaluation purposes.
With that being said, at least Jace CC is a 3-cmc Walker who can protect himself. That's significantly more than situational peeps like Jace Beleren can claim.
Also, Equinox2793, I don't get your claim that "No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0". Do you mean that no 3-mana walker can make a token that has toughness higher than 3 (and therefore dodge Bolt) with only its starting loyalty and without targeting a creature (a la Saheeli Rai)? Or do you mean that no other Modern-legal 3-mana walker can make a token that has power higher than 0 with only its starting loyalty and without targeting a creature?
Modern unfortunately is the death of clever, though.
Agreed. Some day in the future Wizards is going to print a card or effect that lets you transform cards with little investment. It may not be within the next couple of years but I can see it happening 3 to 5 years out. I'm trying to think long term not short term on these.
Yeah, every time I look at a powerful card in standard and think about how to use it in modern, I feel like the hammer and nail rule just hits hard.
It's sort of like if they printed a version of lightning bolt that costs 3 unless some condition is met. People would either run it with lightning bolt or just run lightning bolt.
A lot of these cards are passing the uniqueness test, though.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Has anyone tried Hostage Taker in a UB deck. I've just finished a UB control deck and feel like it'd be pretty good as a flexible 1 of in the SB as UB is notoriously poor at interacting with artifacts (I'd be playing 1 EE, and 1 Hostage Taker).
Has anyone tried Hostage Taker in a UB deck. I've just finished a UB control deck and feel like it'd be pretty good as a flexible 1 of in the SB as UB is notoriously poor at interacting with artifacts (I'd be playing 1 EE, and 1 Hostage Taker).
I was thinking of doing this myself, but cant think of much except resetting chalice of the void at 0 or just stealing creatures if it survives (which is good, but i need more than theory to justify caving on them...especially with the price jump)
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I don't see any deck that would want Jace, it just makes a bad token and dies to anything (like a spirit token) being at 1-loyalty.
It is probably one of the worst 3-mana PW's ever printed.
How is it comparable to a spirit token? If your opponent uses a bolt or push on the token then you are already winning. No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0. The only playable modern card that messes with jace/the token is electrolyze. You sound like the people who were calling liliana last hope/grim flayer/collected brutality garbage cards.
D90Dennis14 means that after Jace, Cunning Castaway ETB, then makes a (2/2) token, he's at 1 loyalty and weak enough to get pegged off by a 1/1 Spirit token (with Flying to get past Jace CC's grounded token). D90Dennis14 doesn't think the token is worth much, possibly to the point of being easily ignored for evaluation purposes.
With that being said, at least Jace CC is a 3-cmc Walker who can protect himself. That's significantly more than situational peeps like Jace Beleren can claim.
Also, Equinox2793, I don't get your claim that "No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0". Do you mean that no 3-mana walker can make a token that has toughness higher than 3 (and therefore dodge Bolt) with only its starting loyalty and without targeting a creature (a la Saheeli Rai)? Or do you mean that no other Modern-legal 3-mana walker can make a token that has power higher than 0 with only its starting loyalty and without targeting a creature?
My point is that there is no 3 mana planeswaker that makes 2/2 tokens for three mana. Saheeli requires another creature to do so.
Private Mod Note
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Has anyone tried Hostage Taker in a UB deck. I've just finished a UB control deck and feel like it'd be pretty good as a flexible 1 of in the SB as UB is notoriously poor at interacting with artifacts (I'd be playing 1 EE, and 1 Hostage Taker).
I like it out of the board when people board out their removal I'm really salty that this card ballooned up in price because I literally forgot to preorder it
Private Mod Note
():
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Has anyone tried Hostage Taker in a UB deck. I've just finished a UB control deck and feel like it'd be pretty good as a flexible 1 of in the SB as UB is notoriously poor at interacting with artifacts (I'd be playing 1 EE, and 1 Hostage Taker).
I like it out of the board when people board out their removal I'm really salty that this card ballooned up in price because I literally forgot to preorder it
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Out of a UB control SB it should almost never die and it deals with pesky stuff that UB can usually never deal with. Gonna try it next week if I can.
My point is that there is no 3 mana planeswaker that makes 2/2 tokens for three mana. Saheeli requires another creature to do so.
I don't think that paying 3-mana to make a Phantasmal Bear is worth a card.
If it was a +1 rather than a -2 it might be worth considering but going down to 1-loyalty for a bad token isn't good at all.
The +1 it actually has is mostly irrelevant as blue deck don't usually play creatures (Merfolk won't play it) and the 2/2 illusions aren't great attacker to get the (mediocre) loot trigger.
The walkers of Ixalan are absolutely abysmal. The only one that is remotely playable is probably Vraska, and even then she's a really hard sell as there are just better things at 6 mana in those colors. The only sure fire walker to come out of any recent set was probably Chandra.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm a merfolk player and I doubt the green merfolk all I want until I see Rivals. Kaladesh did more for merfolk with Smuggler's Copter than Ixalan did with introducing Merfolk Branchwalker.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Elves aren't too excited about itlimoc. It's a weaker lead the stampede which isn't in most lists. And it's a conditional archdruid that can be removed by a commonly played GQ. Arch druid pump vs. having the only relevant green instant in hand? Dream on.
Elves wants shaper's sanctuary.$$ provides card advantage on elves biggest weakness: targeted removal, which is heavily used in a lot of top decks.
With that said elves is an aggro/combo hybrid and it's probably better in a more combo orientated build.
Not quite a Phantasmal Bear. There is one difference even though it isn't huge. The token only dies when targeted by a spell. Abilities leave it alone.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
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How is it comparable to a spirit token? If your opponent uses a bolt or push on the token then you are already winning. No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0. The only playable modern card that messes with jace/the token is electrolyze. You sound like the people who were calling liliana last hope/grim flayer/collected brutality garbage cards.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Agreed. Some day in the future Wizards is going to print a card or effect that lets you transform cards with little investment. It may not be within the next couple of years but I can see it happening 3 to 5 years out. I'm trying to think long term not short term on these.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
D90Dennis14 means that after Jace, Cunning Castaway ETB, then makes a (2/2) token, he's at 1 loyalty and weak enough to get pegged off by a 1/1 Spirit token (with Flying to get past Jace CC's grounded token). D90Dennis14 doesn't think the token is worth much, possibly to the point of being easily ignored for evaluation purposes.
With that being said, at least Jace CC is a 3-cmc Walker who can protect himself. That's significantly more than situational peeps like Jace Beleren can claim.
Also, Equinox2793, I don't get your claim that "No 3 mana planeswalker can make a token that has power/toughness higher than 0". Do you mean that no 3-mana walker can make a token that has toughness higher than 3 (and therefore dodge Bolt) with only its starting loyalty and without targeting a creature (a la Saheeli Rai)? Or do you mean that no other Modern-legal 3-mana walker can make a token that has power higher than 0 with only its starting loyalty and without targeting a creature?
Yeah, every time I look at a powerful card in standard and think about how to use it in modern, I feel like the hammer and nail rule just hits hard.
It's sort of like if they printed a version of lightning bolt that costs 3 unless some condition is met. People would either run it with lightning bolt or just run lightning bolt.
A lot of these cards are passing the uniqueness test, though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I was thinking of doing this myself, but cant think of much except resetting chalice of the void at 0 or just stealing creatures if it survives (which is good, but i need more than theory to justify caving on them...especially with the price jump)
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
My point is that there is no 3 mana planeswaker that makes 2/2 tokens for three mana. Saheeli requires another creature to do so.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I like it out of the board when people board out their removal I'm really salty that this card ballooned up in price because I literally forgot to preorder it
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Out of a UB control SB it should almost never die and it deals with pesky stuff that UB can usually never deal with. Gonna try it next week if I can.
I don't think that paying 3-mana to make a Phantasmal Bear is worth a card.
If it was a +1 rather than a -2 it might be worth considering but going down to 1-loyalty for a bad token isn't good at all.
The +1 it actually has is mostly irrelevant as blue deck don't usually play creatures (Merfolk won't play it) and the 2/2 illusions aren't great attacker to get the (mediocre) loot trigger.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm a merfolk player and I doubt the green merfolk all I want until I see Rivals. Kaladesh did more for merfolk with Smuggler's Copter than Ixalan did with introducing Merfolk Branchwalker.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Elves wants shaper's sanctuary.$$ provides card advantage on elves biggest weakness: targeted removal, which is heavily used in a lot of top decks.
With that said elves is an aggro/combo hybrid and it's probably better in a more combo orientated build.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun