So to get back modern. Some of my friends were discussing whether primeval titan is a problem card for modern. Their argument was that it was already a critical part of a deck that was too good for modern that being amulet bloom and it is more or less a repeatable tutor for a card type that is very difficult to deal with in modern being lands. Now personally I don't agree that it is problematic because it is 6 mana after all but I can see the their logic
Prime Time has always been a fine card for modern. The issue comes with the lands you can get to abuse with it/cheat it out (like Karoos and Valakuts). That said the card doesn't break any of the rules of modern on it's own right, it just makes deck attack it from a different angle which is a fine thing to have in a diverse format. Since the issue just boils down to the lands, you're better off waiting for better land hate or just playing a deck that attacks lands/doesn't care about the game plan. Or you can accept it as a bad matchup, which people do.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
I don't think primeval titan is worth discussing any more than simian spirit guide or Emrakul based on what we know about Wizards' current ban criteria. These are the kinds of things casual players bring up because on their face they seem "unfair" somehow but they don't really jive with how wizards views the ban list.
When a prime time deck starts running 15% of the meta I'd look out
Prime Time has always been a fine card for modern. The issue comes with the lands you can get to abuse with it/cheat it out (like Karoos and Valakuts). That said the card doesn't break any of the rules of modern on it's own right, it just makes deck attack it from a different angle which is a fine thing to have in a diverse format. Since the issue just boils down to the lands, you're better off waiting for better land hate or just playing a deck that attacks lands/doesn't care about the game plan. Or you can accept it as a bad matchup, which people do.
with the lack of effective big mana hate. I feel much like Eldrazi Tron, it is a bit toxic atm in modern. Every linear deck(especially top tier) should have vicious hosers that all colours can use against it.
I do agree that big mana cards can definitely be a problem with the format. Tron makes it so a player can cast something like Karn Liberated on turn 3 or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger on Turn 4. Obviously these are extremely unfair things to do in a game, especially if you're playing a deck that is trying to play fair. But a lot of other Modern decks don't play fair either. Dredge and other graveyard strategies aren't playing fair Magic. Storm isn't what I would call fair Magic either.
Heck the (arguably) best 3 decks of the format are Grixis Death's Shadow, Eldrazi-Tron, and Titanshift. All of those decks do unfair things. Yes they are different degrees of unfair, but they are still unfair.
So let's say we get a card that can stop big mana strategies. Some other unfair archetype will just take the place of the unfair big mana decks. So is the solution to ban everything unfair in Modern until we have a field of mostly fair decks? That's no fun for anyone.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I do agree that big mana cards can definitely be a problem with the format. Tron makes it so a player can cast something like Karn Liberated on turn 3 or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger on Turn 4. Obviously these are extremely unfair things to do in a game, especially if you're playing a deck that is trying to play fair. But a lot of other Modern decks don't play fair either. Dredge and other graveyard strategies aren't playing fair Magic. Storm isn't what I would call fair Magic either.
Heck the (arguably) best 3 decks of the format are Grixis Death's Shadow, Eldrazi-Tron, and Titanshift. All of those decks do unfair things. Yes they are different degrees of unfair, but they are still unfair.
So let's say we get a card that can stop big mana strategies. Some other unfair archetype will just take the place of the unfair big mana decks. So is the solution to ban everything unfair in Modern until we have a field of mostly fair decks? That's no fun for anyone.
It's modern so.... I personally don't really think valakut decks are unfair, ds decks seem very fair, and even tron when they don't have t3 tron is extremely fair. The only deck I think that can be considered unfair/hard to hate mana wise is eldrazi tron.
Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.
I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?
and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....
By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.
I do agree that big mana cards can definitely be a problem with the format. Tron makes it so a player can cast something like Karn Liberated on turn 3 or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger on Turn 4. Obviously these are extremely unfair things to do in a game, especially if you're playing a deck that is trying to play fair. But a lot of other Modern decks don't play fair either. Dredge and other graveyard strategies aren't playing fair Magic. Storm isn't what I would call fair Magic either.
Heck the (arguably) best 3 decks of the format are Grixis Death's Shadow, Eldrazi-Tron, and Titanshift. All of those decks do unfair things. Yes they are different degrees of unfair, but they are still unfair.
So let's say we get a card that can stop big mana strategies. Some other unfair archetype will just take the place of the unfair big mana decks. So is the solution to ban everything unfair in Modern until we have a field of mostly fair decks? That's no fun for anyone.
except the hate for these decks are more effective. if fair decks want to beat dredge they can, if they want to beat burn they can, if they want to beat storm they can, if they want to beat affinity they can. ect
Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.
I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?
and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....
By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.
You need to decide if you're talking about valakut decks or big mana tron type decks. Valakut decks are ramp decks and yes fulminator can be just fine vs them. If you want to beat a valakut deck you easily can the same as most other decks. The only deck imo that isn't easily hated with sb cards is eldrazi tron. I don't think the deck is an issue but it is the hardest in general to find sb cards to fight it.
Jund got replaced by another jundy deck in dsx that's all and we already discussed why a couple pages back.
Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.
Again, blue players trying to be like "we must have a better big mana decks matchups".
First off, UW Control has an even matchup. Why no try that? Because if you do, it won't fit your hyperbolic narrative of "big mana make control decks unplayable".
Second, fair decks must be a dog to something. Fair decks are a dog to those decks. Those decks, do lose out from things like Burn, Affinity, etc.
Third, Infect being a force no more in the meta, means big mana will have a big metashare now. You once were in favour of this. Now, face the consequences.
"Again, blue players trying to be like "we must have a better big mana decks matchups".
First off, UW Control has an even matchup. Why no try that? Because if you do, it won't fit your hyperbolic narrative of "big mana make control decks unplayable"."
nice strawman argument btw.
with joking aside, being a dog to something is an expected part of this game. but when it becomes such a large amount of the game. it gets a bit too much. and therefore needs either a clipping or better tools to answer it.
rock paper scissors with good hosers to even things up is fine. but these answers clearly are not enough or we would be seeing jund or junk in tier 1.
Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.
I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?
and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....
By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.
You need to decide if you're talking about valakut decks or big mana tron type decks. Valakut decks are ramp decks and yes fulminator can be just fine vs them. If you want to beat a valakut deck you easily can the same as most other decks. The only deck imo that isn't easily hated with sb cards is eldrazi tron. I don't think the deck is an issue but it is the hardest in general to find sb cards to fight it.
Jund got replaced by another jundy deck in dsx that's all and we already discussed why a couple pages back.
Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.
im talking about tron eldrazi and valakut. beacuse they all have the same effect on fair decks.
jund got replaced because it was no longer good in an eldrazi meta. its ok if you have 1-2 very bad matchups but when you add a couple others its just too much. and valakut is very rough for jund aswell, even after sideboard. fulminators clearly are not enough in this meta.
Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.
I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?
and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....
By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.
You need to decide if you're talking about valakut decks or big mana tron type decks. Valakut decks are ramp decks and yes fulminator can be just fine vs them. If you want to beat a valakut deck you easily can the same as most other decks. The only deck imo that isn't easily hated with sb cards is eldrazi tron. I don't think the deck is an issue but it is the hardest in general to find sb cards to fight it.
Jund got replaced by another jundy deck in dsx that's all and we already discussed why a couple pages back.
Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.
im talking about tron eldrazi and valakut. beacuse they all have the same effect on fair decks.
jund got replaced because it was no longer good in an eldrazi meta. its ok if you have 1-2 very bad matchups but when you add a couple others its just too much. and valakut is very rough for jund aswell, even after sideboard. fulminators clearly are not enough in this meta.
its good uw is holding up. but for how long?
Jund got replaced because Fatal Push killed its best creatures, Lightning Bolt doesn't do squat anymore without Snapcaster Mage, and Deathrite Shaman and Bloodbraid Elf are banned. WotC wanted to nerf Jund, and well, they did. The Eldrazi played only the smallest role. Fatal Push is the real culprit. Which is fine. Grixis can be the midrange deck colors now. It's not a big deal.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
I miss that Esper Charm discussion from the other page. It was nuanced, polite, refreshing, and interesting conversation where multiple parties were willing to talk. But now we've circled back to people with fair decks complaining about their bad matchups. Every deck has bad matchups, some just as bad as something like Titanshift vs. Jund. Why are the fair-deck mages consistently the only ones complaining about those bad matchups?
As for the alleged decline of BGx, the critics are, unsurprisingly, misrepresenting the metagame. As CH's meta stats show, Jund and Abzan collectively make up about 7% of the format. That jumps to 10% if you add JDS. The BGx midrange decks are still entirely viable. A chunk BGx players have just shifted to a "bettter" midrange deck in GDS. That's okay! Metagames shift and decks rise and fall. You didn't see Affinity players moan whern their deck fell from 10% to 5% for a period of time.
I'm also confident the critics are exaggerating their bad matchups. It reminds me when people claimed old Gx Tron was 70-30 against old Jund and, in reality, the data showed it was basically 50-50. I am confident we would see similar numbers between fair decks and their alleged bad matchups if we had that data today. In Modern, it's always hard to know the true matchup win rates for decks, but they are frequently less polarized than people believe. It's even harder when someone has a narrative in their mind and warps those matchup numbers to fit that narrative.
I have a question for everyone here. Why do you play the deck that you play in Modern?
My main 2 lists are Lantern Control (Paper) and a Dredgevine variant I came up with I'm calling Vengeful One (MTGO).
For Lantern Control I play it is a deck where when I lose a game I can very easily point to why I lost. Since the deck enables me to basically have perfect information about the board state at various points in the game I am able to reflect on the loses I've had and say, "I made this mistake here, which cost me to lose." In all honesty, it's quite refreshing.
As for Vengeful One, I'm playing that because I also like brewing new lists, and right now I'm super excited to play this deck. It essentially revolves around getting back a ton of Vengevines by casting Hollow Ones for free. It can have some explosive draws, but right now I'm working the kinks out of it. But I really like playing this list even though my record with it is roughly 7-8 across 3 Friendly Modern Leagues. I enjoy the process that goes into building a deck and refining it to see if it's any good. That the deck is actually loads of fun to play is just an added bonus.
So why do you play what you do?
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.
I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?
and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....
By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.
I think that the problem with E-Tron and using things like Fulminators is that while they would like to have tron they don't have to have it, while they would like to have temple they don't have to have it. You spend you T3 blowing up one of their lands after they played something either and they untap play a land a and still drop a TKS or something else developing their boards. I think the fulminator package actually does do a lot for the match up against things like Valakut decks or GxTron, E-Tron just is jam packed with built in 2:1's Matter Reshaper, TKS, Reality Smasher ..... it is just very hard for a deck like Jund Mid-range to profit off of the 1:1 and 2:1 trade offs it used to rely on, its just a Mid-range deck that goes slightly bigger and has a lot of creatures that net them "free" 2:1's, Oath was a very pushed set for colorless creatures and that was always a risk for shard based mid-range in modern.
I don't think you can really call E-Tron a "big mana" deck though its a mid-range Ramp deck for sure but the majority of the cards in the deck are 3,4,5,6 drops squarely in the Mid-range.
Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.
GR Titanshift and Affinity both do very good against Eldrazi Tron.
I know these don't prove anything, but Todd Stevens, Mr. E Tron player himself, said that he hates facing Valakut the most. I personally chose the Titan Shift deck for Las Vegas, hoping to run into 15 of them in 15 rounds. I was pretty sure that if I ran into a bunch of them, I could top 8. Instead I ran into 0 of them and got 67th place.
Affinity is just way too quick for E Tron. Walking Ballista is their best defense and it comes down as a 3/3 on turn 3 at best. That's just too slow and you've been run over at that point or are a Galvanic Blast away from sideboarding and shuffling up for the next game.
*Again to others, if you're attacking E Tron with land hate and expecting to win over 50%, you may want to rethink that strategy. It's part of becoming a good Magic player (rethinking strategies and retrying things...adapting).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think the thing about modern that causes people to exaggerate bad matchups is that the axes decks play on are so varied that you will just utterly lose some games.
When you lose to Tron as a Jund player, you probably cast a tarmogoyf and then they karned it, then cast Ulamog, then two wurmcoil engines and laughed.
And this plays out all over the format; I remember the first time I played against mill as scapeshift and they milled 5 of my mountains and a valakut by turn 4. There was no magic involved, they just annihilated me.
This is colloquially referred to as the "ships passing in the night" problem, but it's also what makes modern so interesting -- a huge variance in angles of attack.
I think it's in general a feature not a bug, and people need to start honestly tracking their win rates before quoting them.
As a general rule: If you quote a win rate over 60% you should back it up with numbers.
There just are not that many matchups in modern that are worse than 60-40 except oddball situations with no sideboard cards.
I think many people are averse to switching decks. Of course Tron is going to do well vs. Green based or non Green based Midrange type strategies that don't have much pressure, but try to attrition you out. There just isn't going to be much you can do, other than change your deck list to the point of losing many other matchups or preboarding many cards.
When Pod was about to get banned and before, Tron stomped it. Yes, Tron stomped a deck that ended up getting their main card banned. It happens.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Loved the article, especially the message at the end! Modern is here to stay.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I agree, more reassurance that there won't be shake-up bans would be nice and it seems that Wizards passed up a great opportunity to clarify their vision for Modern by not writing an article about it at the time of the announcement.
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Modern RGTron UGInfect URStorm WUBRAd Nauseam BRGrishoalbrand URGScapeshift WBGAbzan Company WUBRGAmulet Titan BRGLiving End WGBogles
The article was a great read. Hell, honestly I didn't even play during Splinter Twin's time and still got a playset just in case. The format has been developing very well, and only one modern pro tour per year means the likelihood of a deck becoming very good very quickly at the precise timing needing a "shakeup ban" are low. It didn't even take that long for adjustments to be made in the face of Death's Shadow (staring at GP Vegas results, Huey was predicting 5 shadow decks and none appeared).
I said in the price discussion thread that WOTC has a financial motive to keep Modern thriving due to the high profit margin of the master sets. I could see a boost in popularity from additional exposure leading to higher print runs on those set in the future, keeping prices from booming again. After all, it makes zero sense for Karn to jump $20 per just because it wasn't in MM17...sorry griping done.
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URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
When a prime time deck starts running 15% of the meta I'd look out
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
decks playing:
none
Heck the (arguably) best 3 decks of the format are Grixis Death's Shadow, Eldrazi-Tron, and Titanshift. All of those decks do unfair things. Yes they are different degrees of unfair, but they are still unfair.
So let's say we get a card that can stop big mana strategies. Some other unfair archetype will just take the place of the unfair big mana decks. So is the solution to ban everything unfair in Modern until we have a field of mostly fair decks? That's no fun for anyone.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
It's modern so.... I personally don't really think valakut decks are unfair, ds decks seem very fair, and even tron when they don't have t3 tron is extremely fair. The only deck I think that can be considered unfair/hard to hate mana wise is eldrazi tron.
I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?
and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....
By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.
decks playing:
none
except the hate for these decks are more effective. if fair decks want to beat dredge they can, if they want to beat burn they can, if they want to beat storm they can, if they want to beat affinity they can. ect
decks playing:
none
You need to decide if you're talking about valakut decks or big mana tron type decks. Valakut decks are ramp decks and yes fulminator can be just fine vs them. If you want to beat a valakut deck you easily can the same as most other decks. The only deck imo that isn't easily hated with sb cards is eldrazi tron. I don't think the deck is an issue but it is the hardest in general to find sb cards to fight it.
Jund got replaced by another jundy deck in dsx that's all and we already discussed why a couple pages back.
Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.
"Again, blue players trying to be like "we must have a better big mana decks matchups".
First off, UW Control has an even matchup. Why no try that? Because if you do, it won't fit your hyperbolic narrative of "big mana make control decks unplayable"."
nice strawman argument btw.
with joking aside, being a dog to something is an expected part of this game. but when it becomes such a large amount of the game. it gets a bit too much. and therefore needs either a clipping or better tools to answer it.
rock paper scissors with good hosers to even things up is fine. but these answers clearly are not enough or we would be seeing jund or junk in tier 1.
decks playing:
none
im talking about tron eldrazi and valakut. beacuse they all have the same effect on fair decks.
jund got replaced because it was no longer good in an eldrazi meta. its ok if you have 1-2 very bad matchups but when you add a couple others its just too much. and valakut is very rough for jund aswell, even after sideboard. fulminators clearly are not enough in this meta.
its good uw is holding up. but for how long?
decks playing:
none
Jund got replaced because Fatal Push killed its best creatures, Lightning Bolt doesn't do squat anymore without Snapcaster Mage, and Deathrite Shaman and Bloodbraid Elf are banned. WotC wanted to nerf Jund, and well, they did. The Eldrazi played only the smallest role. Fatal Push is the real culprit. Which is fine. Grixis can be the midrange deck colors now. It's not a big deal.
As for the alleged decline of BGx, the critics are, unsurprisingly, misrepresenting the metagame. As CH's meta stats show, Jund and Abzan collectively make up about 7% of the format. That jumps to 10% if you add JDS. The BGx midrange decks are still entirely viable. A chunk BGx players have just shifted to a "bettter" midrange deck in GDS. That's okay! Metagames shift and decks rise and fall. You didn't see Affinity players moan whern their deck fell from 10% to 5% for a period of time.
I'm also confident the critics are exaggerating their bad matchups. It reminds me when people claimed old Gx Tron was 70-30 against old Jund and, in reality, the data showed it was basically 50-50. I am confident we would see similar numbers between fair decks and their alleged bad matchups if we had that data today. In Modern, it's always hard to know the true matchup win rates for decks, but they are frequently less polarized than people believe. It's even harder when someone has a narrative in their mind and warps those matchup numbers to fit that narrative.
My main 2 lists are Lantern Control (Paper) and a Dredgevine variant I came up with I'm calling Vengeful One (MTGO).
For Lantern Control I play it is a deck where when I lose a game I can very easily point to why I lost. Since the deck enables me to basically have perfect information about the board state at various points in the game I am able to reflect on the loses I've had and say, "I made this mistake here, which cost me to lose." In all honesty, it's quite refreshing.
As for Vengeful One, I'm playing that because I also like brewing new lists, and right now I'm super excited to play this deck. It essentially revolves around getting back a ton of Vengevines by casting Hollow Ones for free. It can have some explosive draws, but right now I'm working the kinks out of it. But I really like playing this list even though my record with it is roughly 7-8 across 3 Friendly Modern Leagues. I enjoy the process that goes into building a deck and refining it to see if it's any good. That the deck is actually loads of fun to play is just an added bonus.
So why do you play what you do?
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
There's a whole thread in this forum dedicated to answering that very question: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/770578-your-reasoning-behind-playing-one-of-your-favorite
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I think that the problem with E-Tron and using things like Fulminators is that while they would like to have tron they don't have to have it, while they would like to have temple they don't have to have it. You spend you T3 blowing up one of their lands after they played something either and they untap play a land a and still drop a TKS or something else developing their boards. I think the fulminator package actually does do a lot for the match up against things like Valakut decks or GxTron, E-Tron just is jam packed with built in 2:1's Matter Reshaper, TKS, Reality Smasher ..... it is just very hard for a deck like Jund Mid-range to profit off of the 1:1 and 2:1 trade offs it used to rely on, its just a Mid-range deck that goes slightly bigger and has a lot of creatures that net them "free" 2:1's, Oath was a very pushed set for colorless creatures and that was always a risk for shard based mid-range in modern.
I don't think you can really call E-Tron a "big mana" deck though its a mid-range Ramp deck for sure but the majority of the cards in the deck are 3,4,5,6 drops squarely in the Mid-range.
GR Titanshift and Affinity both do very good against Eldrazi Tron.
I know these don't prove anything, but Todd Stevens, Mr. E Tron player himself, said that he hates facing Valakut the most. I personally chose the Titan Shift deck for Las Vegas, hoping to run into 15 of them in 15 rounds. I was pretty sure that if I ran into a bunch of them, I could top 8. Instead I ran into 0 of them and got 67th place.
Affinity is just way too quick for E Tron. Walking Ballista is their best defense and it comes down as a 3/3 on turn 3 at best. That's just too slow and you've been run over at that point or are a Galvanic Blast away from sideboarding and shuffling up for the next game.
*Again to others, if you're attacking E Tron with land hate and expecting to win over 50%, you may want to rethink that strategy. It's part of becoming a good Magic player (rethinking strategies and retrying things...adapting).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)When you lose to Tron as a Jund player, you probably cast a tarmogoyf and then they karned it, then cast Ulamog, then two wurmcoil engines and laughed.
And this plays out all over the format; I remember the first time I played against mill as scapeshift and they milled 5 of my mountains and a valakut by turn 4. There was no magic involved, they just annihilated me.
This is colloquially referred to as the "ships passing in the night" problem, but it's also what makes modern so interesting -- a huge variance in angles of attack.
I think it's in general a feature not a bug, and people need to start honestly tracking their win rates before quoting them.
As a general rule:
If you quote a win rate over 60% you should back it up with numbers.
There just are not that many matchups in modern that are worse than 60-40 except oddball situations with no sideboard cards.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
When Pod was about to get banned and before, Tron stomped it. Yes, Tron stomped a deck that ended up getting their main card banned. It happens.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)http://modernnexus.com/new-beginnings-implications-modern-pro-tour/
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Loved the article, especially the message at the end! Modern is here to stay.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I agree, more reassurance that there won't be shake-up bans would be nice and it seems that Wizards passed up a great opportunity to clarify their vision for Modern by not writing an article about it at the time of the announcement.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
I said in the price discussion thread that WOTC has a financial motive to keep Modern thriving due to the high profit margin of the master sets. I could see a boost in popularity from additional exposure leading to higher print runs on those set in the future, keeping prices from booming again. After all, it makes zero sense for Karn to jump $20 per just because it wasn't in MM17...sorry griping done.