I think its just proof that Modern is the draw of Magic on Twitch. They cant go TOO far into Modern as they want to show the new sets off, but if you want views, you have Modern on.
No, what you would have is a format of extreme variance where the player who wins would be the one who had the better nut draw each game.
I was skimming through the comments when I noticed this one.
You just described how Modern is right now. Do you honestly think a format where Preordain, Ponder, Green Sun's Zenith, and as many tools for fair decks as for unfair decks would have more variance? Ponder and Preordain are cards meant to lower variance. I use my Preordain suboptimally. You use yours correctly. You win. It's obviously more complicated than that, but you get the point.
Sorry everybody for bringing this up late, but I just can't accept that Modern would have more variance with these cards unbanned. People act like only 1 guy is allowed to choose a best deck, that said best deck beats everything in the meta, and no one adapts and just accepts their losses like idiots. (It's kind of the way Eldrazi worked for me during the Eldrazi Winter. I honestly faced probably around only 15% mirrors. Sometimes there's more important things to people than winning.)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The issue is if you stumble as UW, you lose against the aggro of Modern. You could have the best game against ETron possible in your 75, but if you face nothing but fast aggro and die before you stabilize, its GG.
Why are you calling out ET as fast aggro? Affinity is even worse in this regard. In fact my original budget modern deck, mono green Stompy, will steamroll lots of decks if they don't interact or "stumble". That's Magic.
I really hope this new path board wipe helps vs etron/aggro decks but that just makes mana leak look even worse sooner.
It's not any faster to cast than Wrath of God, not uncounterable like Verdict, and putting all your opponent's basics on the field is pretty awful. I'd say the only time that spell will ever be good is if you already have lethal on board; something that rarely happens for a deck wanting to beat in with Colonnades.
new path board wipe???
Probably from the Ixalan leaks.
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
I really hope this new path board wipe helps vs etron/aggro decks but that just makes mana leak look even worse sooner.
It's not any faster to cast than Wrath of God, not uncounterable like Verdict, and putting all your opponent's basics on the field is pretty awful. I'd say the only time that spell will ever be good is if you already have lethal on board; something that rarely happens for a deck wanting to beat in with Colonnades.
new path board wipe???
Scuttle the Wreckage
2WW
Instant
Exile all attacking creatures target player controls. That player may search his or her library for that many basic land cards, put those cards onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.
The issue is if you stumble as UW, you lose against the aggro of Modern. You could have the best game against ETron possible in your 75, but if you face nothing but fast aggro and die before you stabilize, its GG.
Why are you calling out ET as fast aggro? Affinity is even worse in this regard. In fact my original budget modern deck, mono green Stompy, will steamroll lots of decks if they don't interact or "stumble". That's Magic.
I'm not you miss the point in your desire to jump to your decks defence.
What I'm saying is in the context of why if UW has a good ETRon match, why it's not the end all be all, and the reason is fast aggro goes under both.
The best deck in the format is an interactive grixis deck that runs an entire playset of snapcaster mage...and people are mad about blue, counters, and interaction.
The best deck in the format is an interactive grixis deck that runs an entire playset of snapcaster mage...and people are mad about blue, counters, and interaction.
But you can't deny land destruction in modern is incredibly bad
We aren't seeing all these big mana decks in the meta for no reason, you have to go underneath them very quickly with fast aggro (which is nearly dead outside of burn and affinity) or fast combo
Fair decks honestly have no real answer to big mana, rejection is one of the primary reasons blue isn't utterly crushed now.
fair decks like jund would have an easier time in this format if we had less big mana. It's not like it's affinity burn merfolk and storm that are keeping them down...
Currently valakut and etron are top tier with tron almost tier 1 and bant eldrazi tier 2.
So I'm not suprised with why jund is tier 3 and the most successful shadowless urx deck has 8 maindeck big mana hate cards.
But you can't deny land destruction in modern is incredibly bad
We aren't seeing all these big mana decks in the meta for no reason, you have to go underneath them very quickly with fast aggro (which is nearly dead outside of burn and affinity) or fast combo
Fair decks honestly have no real answer to big mana, rejection is one of the primary reasons blue isn't utterly crushed now.
fair decks like jund would have an easier time in this format if we had less big mana. It's not like it's affinity burn merfolk and storm that are keeping them down...
Currently valakut and etron are top tier with tron almost tier 1 and bant eldrazi tier 2.
So I'm not suprised with why jund is tier 3 and the most successful shadowless urx deck has 8 maindeck big mana hate cards.
It's easy to pick apart things when you add qualifiers like "shadowless." Actually though the most successful "shadowless" URx deck runs no maindeck big mana hate cards and wins via grapeshot.
It's easy to pick apart things when you add qualifiers like "shadowless." Actually though the most successful "shadowless" URx deck runs no maindeck big mana hate cards and wins via grapeshot.
Calling storm a blue red deck is like calling infect "blue green stompy" or dredge a grixis aggro. Storm is another weirdo that only abuses one keyword 'storm', it doesn't care color identity almost at all.
The best deck in the format is an interactive grixis deck that runs an entire playset of snapcaster mage...and people are mad about blue, counters, and interaction.
Snapcaster Mage is one of the best creatures in Modern. It singlehandedly does not make Blue very good or super playable as a color. Snapcaster Mage has been relegated recently to just flashing back Black spells, outside of the occasional Serum Visions or Stubborn Denial.
And Control players are very picky about their decks. How do I know? I played nothing but Control for 8 years straight. This is what I wanted. Mass removal, spot removal, GOOD countermagic, and draw spells with just 1-3 win-cons at most. I personally laughed at Thoughtseize in Standard at the time. It was a joke since I had better countermagic and just beat up on those Midrange decks.
Just one little complaint: The first post still lists the next B&R announcement as April 24th. Anyway we can get that updated?
I always like to have a cart full of SFM targets on the day of the announcement so I can be just a little more disappointed.
You're telling me. I have piles and piles of Bloodbraid Elf, Preordain, and (smaller piles) Stoneforge Mystic. I am probably a raise or 2nd job away from accumulating piles of Jace, the Mind Sculptor as well.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It's easy to pick apart things when you add qualifiers like "shadowless." Actually though the most successful "shadowless" URx deck runs no maindeck big mana hate cards and wins via grapeshot.
Calling storm a blue red deck is like calling infect "blue green stompy" or dredge a grixis aggro. Storm is another weirdo that only abuses one keyword 'storm', it doesn't care color identity almost at all.
Card draw and selection, a very big aspect of storm, is also very much a blue concept. My point was that he said shadowless URx deck as if that color combination, without death shadow, was supposed to represent a more specific archetype than simply any deck with those two colors.
This all ties in to what I've said about blue based control and BGx midrange: people think certain color combinations should not only be playable, and not only tier 1, but to exist in that way with certain strategies. In reality, it's just a matter of all five colors being represented, and with different archetypes being represented. This exists in modern, but those two big themes don't have to overlap to a particular person's liking. For instance, jund is viable right now in DSJ, a deck that runs LOTV, discard, removal...its a grindy deck that has an aggressive win condition to shore up what was normally a bad matchup in big mana decks. Jund literally has evolved to beat tron and valakut, yet some old Jund players are very resistant to that evolution. Same with Grixis.
It's weird because burn did this a while back. Lists that were mostly naya lists with cats streamlined into boros builds. I wasn't paying as much attention, so I'm not sure how much fight there was over that. Bant eldrazi evolved to E-tron...again not sure about the pushback.
I think the main issue that Jund players have (and a Jund player can most definitely correct me) is that GDS is just better than Jund Death's Shadow right now. With 4 mainboard Stubborn Denial, the gap shortens, but still GDS is miles above JDS. Jund players may not enjoy Grixis anymore than a Tron player would enjoy Mono White Death and Taxes.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It's easy to pick apart things when you add qualifiers like "shadowless." Actually though the most successful "shadowless" URx deck runs no maindeck big mana hate cards and wins via grapeshot.
Calling storm a blue red deck is like calling infect "blue green stompy" or dredge a grixis aggro. Storm is another weirdo that only abuses one keyword 'storm', it doesn't care color identity almost at all.
Except it does care about color identity. A combo deck like storm greatly benefits from cheap cantrips (found in blue), mana rituals (in red), spell-matters enablers such as cost reduction (in blue and red), not to mention the finishers themselves (in red). Storm is undeniably a UR deck, and arguably the most successful URx deck not running Shadow.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Yes, Storm is 100% in the UR colour pie, but people either don't understand or intentionally ignore FoodChainGoblins other point.
Players are picky. They want something very specific and if they cannot adjust to the environment they are in, they will comment on it.
Both ETron and DnT win with creature beats.
Are they the same?
If Temple was banned and you wanted to stay colourless, would Affinity give you the same style of deck?
No, and to pretend otherwise is embarrassing yourselves.
Now, I personally think that every style of blue exists right now in some level of competition.
'Delver' can be seen in GDS.
'Control' is seen in UW, Esper, ND UWR Tap Out.
'Combo' is Storm.
'Aggro' is UR Prowess.
'Tempo' is UWR Queller.
'Control/Combo' is Kiki-Resto.
All of these have a very distinct play style and execute on different axis from each other.
They all have blue, but that's not even half of the story.
Heh both? Unlike Wizards I'm of the opinion more data gives better discussion.
Sorry but that isn't what they claimed the data restriction was about, has nothing to do with "better discussions" this is some kinda crazy attitude that people have towards WotC every thing they do sucks, except you know producing the game we all play.
Oh FFS his post was an hour ago and your talking as if we were actively avoiding it, idsurge. He stated Grixis Shadow is better than Jund Shadow. I don't disagree. I disagree with the idea that this is a problem. First, there's no law stopping you from playing Jund. Second, no deck has the right to be tier 1, that's no color combination, no archetype, nada. Hell my storm deck will probably eat a ban in the next year because WOTC hates storm. It will become irrelevant, and that's okay with me.
Let's just come out and say it. The reason people complain about big mana strategies is that the games that big mana are involved in are for the most part boring. There are often very few decisions that actually matter, they often have very polarizing matchup, and whether they win or lose the games can after be very one-sided. Big mana for a non negligible part of the player base just makes games of modern much less enjoyable.
Heh both? Unlike Wizards I'm of the opinion more data gives better discussion.
Sorry but that isn't what they claimed the data restriction was about, has nothing to do with "better discussions" this is some kinda crazy attitude that people have towards WotC every thing they do sucks, except you know producing the game we all play.
For the most part, I love what Wizards has done. They created a long standing game that has millions of followers. They have allowed us to play for so long in Modern. They have allowed Affinity, Pod, Bloom, and many other decks for some periods of time and I thank them for that. It also doesn't mean that I'm not going to call them out on something that I don't agree with.
Admittedly a lot of the bannings that have been done are justified and ended up being very good. But there's still some I don't agree with and I think that many people can agree that their handling of Modern has been less than stellar, even if it is a format that we all have enjoyed for 1-6 years.
The bottom line - Wizards of the Coast has done a very good job overall.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Heh both? Unlike Wizards I'm of the opinion more data gives better discussion.
Sorry but that isn't what they claimed the data restriction was about, has nothing to do with "better discussions" this is some kinda crazy attitude that people have towards WotC every thing they do sucks, except you know producing the game we all play.
For the most part, I love what Wizards has done. They created a long standing game that has millions of followers. They have allowed us to play ---- for so long in Modern. They have allowed Affinity, Pod, Bloom, and many other decks for some periods of time and I thank them for that. It also doesn't mean that I'm not going to call them out on something that I don't agree with.
Admittedly a lot of the bannings that have been done are justified and ended up being very good. But there's still some I don't agree with and I think that many people can agree that their handling of Modern has been less than stellar, even if it is a format that we all have enjoyed for 1-6 years.
The bottom line - Wizards of the Coast has done a very good job overall.
Thats all fine and dandy, I was being critical of your statement in the first Post that portrayed WotC as geared towards something that it had nothing to do with which fallows the trend of "WotC are stupid, don't understand the game, etc..." just add essentially whatever pejorative claim you want. In the case of your post it is that WotC is in opposition to "better discussion" which had nothing to do with their changes regarding them no longer sharing their information with us in the way they had previously.
I personally have been amused reading all of the fear around the return of the Modern PT, just a few days ago people complaining that they don't pay enough attention to the format and suddenly now that it will certainly receive a much higher profile level of attention people are what? still complaining.
I've enjoyed Modern since they created the format with a small window of the Eldrazi Winter in which every meta-game offered something interesting.
I personally think that the return of the Modern PT shows that WotC is happier with the Format than it was when it decided to remove it from the PT all together.
I really hope this new path board wipe helps vs etron/aggro decks but that just makes mana leak look even worse sooner.
It's not any faster to cast than Wrath of God, not uncounterable like Verdict, and putting all your opponent's basics on the field is pretty awful. I'd say the only time that spell will ever be good is if you already have lethal on board; something that rarely happens for a deck wanting to beat in with Colonnades.
It doesn't hit your creatures and still lets you play at instant speed. Uncounterable will rarely come up because you aren't keeping it in in control mirrors and it's an instant so warping wail can't hit it. If you are in white you are already playing 4 path and likely some gq's so what are the chances of the opponent hitting lands for everything in modern. Exile also matters but only time will tell so like I said I hope it's a great answer.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/organized-play/2018-grand-prix-details-2017-07-20
I'm worried for people that WOTC will scrutinize Modern even more because of these GPs.
Spirits
I was skimming through the comments when I noticed this one.
You just described how Modern is right now. Do you honestly think a format where Preordain, Ponder, Green Sun's Zenith, and as many tools for fair decks as for unfair decks would have more variance? Ponder and Preordain are cards meant to lower variance. I use my Preordain suboptimally. You use yours correctly. You win. It's obviously more complicated than that, but you get the point.
Sorry everybody for bringing this up late, but I just can't accept that Modern would have more variance with these cards unbanned. People act like only 1 guy is allowed to choose a best deck, that said best deck beats everything in the meta, and no one adapts and just accepts their losses like idiots. (It's kind of the way Eldrazi worked for me during the Eldrazi Winter. I honestly faced probably around only 15% mirrors. Sometimes there's more important things to people than winning.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Why are you calling out ET as fast aggro? Affinity is even worse in this regard. In fact my original budget modern deck, mono green Stompy, will steamroll lots of decks if they don't interact or "stumble". That's Magic.
Probably from the Ixalan leaks.
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
Scuttle the Wreckage
2WW
Instant
Exile all attacking creatures target player controls. That player may search his or her library for that many basic land cards, put those cards onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/scuttlethewreckage.html
I'm not you miss the point in your desire to jump to your decks defence.
What I'm saying is in the context of why if UW has a good ETRon match, why it's not the end all be all, and the reason is fast aggro goes under both.
You misunderstood.
Spirits
Who? People got over blue some time ago.
Spirits
I always like to have a cart full of SFM targets on the day of the announcement so I can be just a little more disappointed.
Currently valakut and etron are top tier with tron almost tier 1 and bant eldrazi tier 2.
So I'm not suprised with why jund is tier 3 and the most successful shadowless urx deck has 8 maindeck big mana hate cards.
decks playing:
none
It's easy to pick apart things when you add qualifiers like "shadowless." Actually though the most successful "shadowless" URx deck runs no maindeck big mana hate cards and wins via grapeshot.
Calling storm a blue red deck is like calling infect "blue green stompy" or dredge a grixis aggro. Storm is another weirdo that only abuses one keyword 'storm', it doesn't care color identity almost at all.
Modern
WUBRG
Snapcaster Mage is one of the best creatures in Modern. It singlehandedly does not make Blue very good or super playable as a color. Snapcaster Mage has been relegated recently to just flashing back Black spells, outside of the occasional Serum Visions or Stubborn Denial.
And Control players are very picky about their decks. How do I know? I played nothing but Control for 8 years straight. This is what I wanted. Mass removal, spot removal, GOOD countermagic, and draw spells with just 1-3 win-cons at most. I personally laughed at Thoughtseize in Standard at the time. It was a joke since I had better countermagic and just beat up on those Midrange decks.
You're telling me. I have piles and piles of Bloodbraid Elf, Preordain, and (smaller piles) Stoneforge Mystic. I am probably a raise or 2nd job away from accumulating piles of Jace, the Mind Sculptor as well.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Card draw and selection, a very big aspect of storm, is also very much a blue concept. My point was that he said shadowless URx deck as if that color combination, without death shadow, was supposed to represent a more specific archetype than simply any deck with those two colors.
This all ties in to what I've said about blue based control and BGx midrange: people think certain color combinations should not only be playable, and not only tier 1, but to exist in that way with certain strategies. In reality, it's just a matter of all five colors being represented, and with different archetypes being represented. This exists in modern, but those two big themes don't have to overlap to a particular person's liking. For instance, jund is viable right now in DSJ, a deck that runs LOTV, discard, removal...its a grindy deck that has an aggressive win condition to shore up what was normally a bad matchup in big mana decks. Jund literally has evolved to beat tron and valakut, yet some old Jund players are very resistant to that evolution. Same with Grixis.
It's weird because burn did this a while back. Lists that were mostly naya lists with cats streamlined into boros builds. I wasn't paying as much attention, so I'm not sure how much fight there was over that. Bant eldrazi evolved to E-tron...again not sure about the pushback.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Players are picky. They want something very specific and if they cannot adjust to the environment they are in, they will comment on it.
Both ETron and DnT win with creature beats.
Are they the same?
If Temple was banned and you wanted to stay colourless, would Affinity give you the same style of deck?
No, and to pretend otherwise is embarrassing yourselves.
Now, I personally think that every style of blue exists right now in some level of competition.
'Delver' can be seen in GDS.
'Control' is seen in UW, Esper, ND UWR Tap Out.
'Combo' is Storm.
'Aggro' is UR Prowess.
'Tempo' is UWR Queller.
'Control/Combo' is Kiki-Resto.
All of these have a very distinct play style and execute on different axis from each other.
They all have blue, but that's not even half of the story.
Spirits
Sorry but that isn't what they claimed the data restriction was about, has nothing to do with "better discussions" this is some kinda crazy attitude that people have towards WotC every thing they do sucks, except you know producing the game we all play.
Agree to disagree on that one I suppose?
And yeah Gkourou, Fish for sure in the Tempo/Aggro area.
Spirits
For the most part, I love what Wizards has done. They created a long standing game that has millions of followers. They have allowed us to play for so long in Modern. They have allowed Affinity, Pod, Bloom, and many other decks for some periods of time and I thank them for that. It also doesn't mean that I'm not going to call them out on something that I don't agree with.
Admittedly a lot of the bannings that have been done are justified and ended up being very good. But there's still some I don't agree with and I think that many people can agree that their handling of Modern has been less than stellar, even if it is a format that we all have enjoyed for 1-6 years.
The bottom line - Wizards of the Coast has done a very good job overall.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Thats all fine and dandy, I was being critical of your statement in the first Post that portrayed WotC as geared towards something that it had nothing to do with which fallows the trend of "WotC are stupid, don't understand the game, etc..." just add essentially whatever pejorative claim you want. In the case of your post it is that WotC is in opposition to "better discussion" which had nothing to do with their changes regarding them no longer sharing their information with us in the way they had previously.
I personally have been amused reading all of the fear around the return of the Modern PT, just a few days ago people complaining that they don't pay enough attention to the format and suddenly now that it will certainly receive a much higher profile level of attention people are what? still complaining.
I've enjoyed Modern since they created the format with a small window of the Eldrazi Winter in which every meta-game offered something interesting.
I personally think that the return of the Modern PT shows that WotC is happier with the Format than it was when it decided to remove it from the PT all together.
It doesn't hit your creatures and still lets you play at instant speed. Uncounterable will rarely come up because you aren't keeping it in in control mirrors and it's an instant so warping wail can't hit it. If you are in white you are already playing 4 path and likely some gq's so what are the chances of the opponent hitting lands for everything in modern. Exile also matters but only time will tell so like I said I hope it's a great answer.